Why I hate the english language.

In summary, English is a language that can be difficult to understand, but it is also very transparent. There are many rules that are followed, but some exceptions exist. It can be frustrating when you don't understand something, but it is also amazing that everything is spelled out for us in so many ways. For example, when we say "I before E except after C," we are referring to the rule that "I" is always pronounced before "E" except when it is pronounced "A." There are many other examples of rules that are followed, such as the rule that "E" is not pronounced in words that end in "E."
  • #36
Sorry! said:
yeah one is WO-Man and the other is WO-men do you pronounce men as min?

'There are some great looking min over there.'

haha what?

Yes :smile:! In the word "women" the "men" is pronounced "min," but the word "men" is pronounced "men."

It's not logical; it's English. Which, I presume, is why the OP hates it.
 
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  • #37
lisab said:
Yes :smile:! In the word "women" the "men" is pronounced "min," but the word "men" is pronounced "men."

It's not logical; it's English. Which, I presume, is why the OP hates it.

Hahaha. That's SO weird, to me it's still 'men' in wo-men.

I wonder do you guys also pronounce 'cavalry and calvary' the same way?

What about mischievous this one to me sounds like 'mis-chiev-ous' I hear people say 'mis-cheev-eee-ous' ha.

It's interesting to see how other people pronounce words though :P

EDIT: I've been sitting here saying the word women and it sounds to me like I'm saying 'w-uh-mmm-en' (as in end) and when I say woman it's more like 'w-uh-mmm-an' (as in and). :-p I looked it up in the dictionary and it says \ˈwi-mən\
 
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  • #38
Yes ! In the word "women" the "men" is pronounced "min," but the word "men" is pronounced "men."
"Men" and "min" would be pronounced the same way. Unless you pronounce "men" with the "e" sounding like the "e" in "egg".
What about mischievous this one to me sounds like 'mis-chiev-ous' I hear people say 'mis-cheev-eee-ous' ha.

It's interesting to see how other people pronounce words though :P
The English pronounce words funny. Like Aluminum. They say al-oo-min-ee-um. It's not even spelled that way. There would have to be an "I" before the last "U" for that to be a legitimate pronunciation. But I guess they put the I there to compensate.
I've been sitting here saying the word women and it sounds to me like I'm saying 'w-uh-mmm-en' (as in end) and when I say woman it's more like 'w-uh-mmm-an' (as in and).
Women is pronounced like "whimin."
Woman is pronounced like "wuhmun." That "wuh" part isn't exactly right, but it's the closest sound I can find to it. And the last "mun" part isn't exactly right either, but it doesn't quite have the "min" sound, so I gave it the "mun" sound. When you say it, it's more like you're trying to put that M right next to the N as close as possible.
 
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  • #39
leroyjenkens said:
The English pronounce words funny. Like Aluminum. They say al-oo-min-ee-um. It's not even spelled that way. There would have to be an "I" before the last "U" for that to be a legitimate pronunciation.

There is in a real english dictionary. :wink:
 
  • #40
Kurdt said:
There is in a real english dictionary. :wink:

I edited my post. I didn't think that they would most likely have a different spelling too.
 
  • #41
trough, tough, through, borough.. (o-)ugh!
 
  • #42
Tobias Funke said:
He wrote women, not woman.
This thread wouldn't exist if he didn't know that.
i think you mean this thread wouldn't exist if he DID know rhat,. if he DIDNt know that the thread would and DID exist, as seen in the op, where he incorrectly states that ''soceity'' does not meet the i before e rule!
 
  • #43
sportsstar469 said:
i think you mean this thread wouldn't exist if he DID know rhat,. if he DIDNt know that the thread would and DID exist, as seen in the op, where he incorrectly states that ''soceity'' does not meet the i before e rule!

Ok people keep saying this in this thread. How does society follow 'i before except after c'?

I am quite sure its so-c-i-e-ty. So according to the rule it should be spelt so-c-e-i-ty. Because i should not come before e since it is after c.
 
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  • #44
Moonbear said:
I actually view it as the opposite. As long as spelling is reasonably close, I can usually read quickly over some typos or misspellings. When grammar and punctuation are discarded, it takes a lot more time to read and process what something says, and leaves a lot of room for misinterpretation. I also don't think the shift key is all that hard to reach for on a keyboard.

Spelling errors are a lot more visible than "I-before-E" violations. Because of this, we take the author of the spelling error much less seriously than the author of the more nuanced errors.

Another english folly: "we take the author of the spelling error much less seriously..." Do we take the author of the spelling error much seriously? Or less seriously?
 
  • #45
Sorry! said:
Ok people keep saying this in this thread. How does society follow 'i before except after c'?

I am quite sure its so-c-i-e-ty. So according to the rule it should be spelt so-c-e-i-ty. Because I should not come before e since it is after


Another english folly: In Britian, it's "genious," but here it's "genius."
 
  • #47
leroyjenkens said:
I edited my post. I didn't think that they would most likely have a different spelling too.

The official IUPAC spelling is now Aluminium, unfortunately they also insist on spelling Sulpher as Sulfur.
 
  • #48
sportsstar469 said:
i think you mean this thread wouldn't exist if he DID know rhat,. if he DIDNt know that the thread would and DID exist, as seen in the op, where he incorrectly states that ''soceity'' does not meet the i before e rule!

He meant to spell the words incorrectly to show what they should be if they followed the "rules". Although he spelled foreigner correctly, which makes it a little confusing.

At least that's how I interpret it. Maybe he did mean to spell them both right. I don't know.
 
  • #49
mgb_phys said:
The official IUPAC spelling is now Aluminium, unfortunately they also insist on spelling Sulpher as Sulfur.

Here's something from wikipedia:
"The International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry (IUPAC) adopted aluminium as the standard international name for the element in 1990, but three years later recognized aluminum as an acceptable variant. Hence their periodic table includes both.[53] IUPAC officially prefers the use of aluminium in its internal publications, although several IUPAC publications use the spelling aluminum"

So they prefer the British spelling, but accept and sometimes use the American spelling.
I say whichever one came first should be the official spelling.
 
  • #50
Tobias Funke said:
He meant to spell the words incorrectly to show what they should be if they followed the "rules". Although he spelled foreigner correctly, which makes it a little confusing.

At least that's how I interpret it. Maybe he did mean to spell them both right. I don't know.

That's what I took it as too, that he purposely spelt society incorrectly to show the use of the rediculous 'rule'. Society does not follow the rule sports, you are wrong, not the OP.

Either that or he just made a typo with spelling society... regardless it doesn't change the fact that the word does not follow i before e rule.
 
  • #51
Does anyone understand what this guy is saying? (he speaks English, haha)



Tink am in da picktzo..? Haha...
 
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  • #52
Interesting trivia note: The word "weird" derives from the germanic "wyrd", an interesting word that roughly translates to "fate" although is significantly more nuanced. Apparently, Shakespeare anglicized the word in Macbeth to describe the three witches (the weird sisters, although there was originally a funny looking accent mark in the word) and the word was then adopted into general english.
 
  • #53
Sorry! said:
Hahaha. That's SO weird, to me it's still 'men' in wo-men.

I wonder do you guys also pronounce 'cavalry and calvary' the same way?

What about mischievous this one to me sounds like 'mis-chiev-ous' I hear people say 'mis-cheev-eee-ous' ha.

It's interesting to see how other people pronounce words though :P

EDIT: I've been sitting here saying the word women and it sounds to me like I'm saying 'w-uh-mmm-en' (as in end) and when I say woman it's more like 'w-uh-mmm-an' (as in and). :-p I looked it up in the dictionary and it says \ˈwi-mən\


Look, this guy is Canadian, too, he can teach you. :biggrin:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/B4MIrKXaD84&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/B4MIrKXaD84&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>​
 
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  • #54
Equate said:
Look, this guy is Canadian, too, he can teach you. :biggrin:

Hahaha, he sounds like at the end of women he is saying WEHM-EN not WIMIN... they sound different.. like in vs end...

look at the word VERMIN the end of this word sounds nothing like the end of women. Right?
 
  • #55
Someone (James Nicoll) said - English doesn't just borrow words from other languages, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.

If you are 'borrowing' from a language that's easy to pronounce with obvious spelling like Dutch you can keep the pronunciation the same but make up a new spelling
But if the word comes from a language that's hard to pronounce - like French then keep the spelling but pronounce it in English. if you feel bad you can use the original plural instead of an English one.
If you take a word from a language with lots of cool complicated grammar (like latin) then rather than waste it - it's worth using the foreign grammar for the rest of the sentence as well, even if you don't need to.
 
  • #56
mgb_phys said:
But if the word comes from a language that's hard to pronounce - like French then keep the spelling but pronounce it in English.

http://www.answers.com/topic/le-cordon-bleu"
floet1.gif
 
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  • #57
lisab said:
Yes :smile:! In the word "women" the "men" is pronounced "min," but the word "men" is pronounced "men."

It's not logical; it's English. Which, I presume, is why the OP hates it.

I pronounce it wi-men.

"Wimmin" makes me think of redneck English (sorry lisa) and a joke my grandparents had on their bar. It was a plaque thing shaped like a tombstone and read:
Ma loved pa.
Pa loved wimmin.
Ma caught pa with two in swimmin.
Here lies pa.
 
  • #58
Moonbear said:
I pronounce it wi-men.

"Wimmin" makes me think of redneck English (sorry lisa) and a joke my grandparents had on their bar. It was a plaque thing shaped like a tombstone and read:
Ma loved pa.
Pa loved wimmin.
Ma caught pa with two in swimmin.
Here lies pa.

Sounds right to me...women does rhyme with swimmin'!

Actually dictionary.com http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Women" . And yes, it does sound a bit redneck :smile:.
 
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  • #59
"read" and "read" always bugged me.
(present tense / past tense)
 
  • #60
Equate said:
Look, this guy is Canadian, too, he can teach you. :biggrin:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/B4MIrKXaD84&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/B4MIrKXaD84&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>​

What on Earth is that about?!

Anyhow, yes, the guy bringing us the letter W and the number 4 today does, in fact, know that "woman" and "women" are pronounced entirely differently.

Sorry! you're Cannunkian, yes? If so, which part do you come from?
 
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  • #61
GeorginaS said:
What on Earth is that about?!

Anyhow, yes, the guy bringing us the letter W and the number 4 today does, in fact, know that "woman" and "women" are pronounced entirely differently.

Sorry! you're Cannunkian, yes? If so, which part do you come from?

GTA, Southern Mississauga specifically if you know where that is.
 
  • #62
From time to time I post this "Plan for the Improvement of English Spelling". It is attributed to Mark Twain although it is unlikely that he actually wrote it.
Mark Twain said:
For example, in Year 1 that useless letter "c" would be dropped to be replased either by "k" or "s," and likewise "x" would no longer be part of the alphabet. The only kase in which "c" would be retained would be the "ch" formation, which will be dealt with later. Year 2 might reform "w" spelling, so that "which" and "one" would take the same konsonant, wile Year 3 might well abolish "y" replasing it with "i" and Iear 4 might fiks the "g / j" anomali wonse and for all.

Jenerally, then, the improvement would kontinue iear bai iear with Iear 5 doing awai with useless double konsonants, and Iears 6-12 or so modifaiing vowlz and the rimeining voist and unvoist konsonants. Bai Iear 15 or sou, it wud fainali bi posibl tu meik ius ov thi ridandant letez "c," "y," and "x" - bai now jast a memori in the maindz ov ould doderez - tu riplais "ch," "sh," and "th" rispektivli.

Fainali, xen, aafte sam 20 iers ov orxogrefkl riform, wi wud hev a lojikl, kohirnt speling in ius xrewawt xe Ingliy-spiking werld.
More on this can be found at http://www.spellingsociety.org/journals/j31/satires.php"
 
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  • #63
I pronounce it wi-men.

"Wimmin" makes me think of redneck English (sorry lisa)
What's the pronunciation difference between "wi-men" and "wimmin"? They look like they'd be pronounced the same way.
 
  • #64
Sorry! said:
GTA, Southern Mississauga specifically if you know where that is.

Tranna, then. That explains it. :wink:

I'm originally from Ottawa and have been stranded in the barren wastelands of redneckery, Edmonton, for a number of years.
 
  • #65
GeorginaS said:
Tranna, then. That explains it. :wink:.
Its' a world class city, you know !
 
  • #66
mgb_phys said:
Its' a world class city, you know !


So they keep telling us!
 
  • #67
leroyjenkens said:
What's the pronunciation difference between "wi-men" and "wimmin"? They look like they'd be pronounced the same way.

I don't even know how to explain it in writing, and can't fathom why you wouldn't see a difference in pronunciation. They are very distinctly different sounds. When you say "men" does it sound like "min?" Say the letter L (el) and then say the word ill. Do they sound alike? :confused:
 
  • #68
Moonbear said:
I don't even know how to explain it in writing, and can't fathom why you wouldn't see a difference in pronunciation. They are very distinctly different sounds. When you say "men" does it sound like "min?" Say the letter L (el) and then say the word ill. Do they sound alike? :confused:

So you mean you pronounce "men" with the "e" sounding like the "e" in "egg"? Instead of the "e" sounding like the "i" in "in"? Which would sound like the "e" in "end".
Click on the speaker icon to hear how I pronounce "men".
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/men?o=100084&qsrc=2871&l=dir

I've never heard it pronounced any other way.
 
  • #69
leroyjenkens said:
So you mean you pronounce "men" with the "e" sounding like the "e" in "egg"? Instead of the "e" sounding like the "i" in "in"? Which would sound like the "e" in "end".
Click on the speaker icon to hear how I pronounce "men".
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/men?o=100084&qsrc=2871&l=dir

I've never heard it pronounced any other way.

Uh leroy, the 'i' in in does not sound like the 'e' in end. The 'i' in in sounds like the 'i' in it.

If you said in as you would say end it would just sound like your saying the letter n...

Men and Min definitely sound different.
 
  • #70
Sorry! said:
Uh leroy, the 'i' in in does not sound like the 'e' in end. The 'i' in in sounds like the 'i' in it.

If you said in as you would say end it would just sound like your saying the letter n...

There's a slight difference. I notice when I say it and when I hear it repeatedly from clicking on the speaker.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/end?o=100084

But the difference is small. The "e" in "end" doesn't have an "e" sound. You can hear the "e" sound in the word "egg".
 

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