Why is there no 'history of physics' forum?

[pines-demon]

I think a specific forum for history of physics and mathematics here would be fun. It could also help some users understand the origin or the motivation of whatever topic they are studying.

There is a forum for for art, music, history and others, but it seems focused on discussing many things that are unrelated to physics directly. What decides which forums are available?

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Usually we create forums on existing demand. Start those history discussions in general physics or general discussion and maybe you'll create that demand eventually :)

 

[pines-demon]

Usually we create forums on existing demand. Start those history discussions in general physics or general discussion and maybe you'll create that demand eventually :)

I see thanks. Could we at least separate Music and art, from history? It seems weird that the forum is full of music and history threads, I think there is enough for a split.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

I see thanks. Could we at least separate Music and art, from history? It seems weird that the forum is full of music and history threads, I think there is enough for a split.

I agree it's a bit weird, but what does this achieve for you?

 

[pines-demon]

I agree it's a bit weird, but what does this achieve for you?

Nothing, I am new here. I just like history of science and found it weird that in order to look for that I have dig through a bunch of music threads.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Maybe we can first try using prefixes to be able to sort and filter easier

 

[pinball1970]

Nothing, I am new here. I just like history of science and found it weird that in order to look for that I have dig through a bunch of music threads.

Just start a thread on the history of physics. That will be ok I think. The other threads are the other threads.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Speaking of history, you have been on PF for a total of one day and 5 messages. You might wait a bit before deciding we are doing everything all wrong and need to change. Until then, you might also take Greg's advice seriously - assignment of sections is driven by activity and content.

Start a thread.

Or, as said many years ago "Better to light a single candle than to complain that it is dark."

 

[pines-demon]

You might wait a bit before deciding we are doing everything all wrong and need to change. Until then, you might also take Greg;s advice seriously - assignment of sections is driven by activity and content.

Start a thread.

Fair enough.

 

[Frabjous]

There is all sort of interesting stuff in the “Today I learned” thread.
https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/today-i-learned.783257/

 

[pines-demon]

To start, here is my first thread on the topic:

https://www.physicsforums.com/threa...g-anecdotes-in-the-history-of-physics.1059261

 

[Bosko]

It seems to me that "History and Philosophy of Science" would be a well-visited forum.
There are many interesting historical and philosophical questions that people are interested in.

For example :
- The relationship between Isaac Newton and Gottfried Leibniz
- Rejected scientific theories: ether, static universe, planet Vulcan,...
- The existence of objects whose existence cannot be verified by physical experiment (for example, singularities in black holes, Big Bang)
...

With good rules it could work well

 

[Vanadium 50]

With good rules it could work well

Tried it. This didn't work.

You see those rules? They didn't come about because someone said "Hey, we need some arbitrary and capricious rules!" They came about because the alternative did not work.

 

[Rive]

It seems to me that "History and Philosophy of Science" would be a well-visited forum.
There are many interesting historical and philosophical questions that people are interested in.

Philosophy is already a proven rabbit- sink- and black hole, all-in-one: a very lucky topic may survive even up to five posts these days, of which maybe two being worthy, including the termination notice from the mentor...

History of physics is good learning exercise if done well, but it's quite prone to hijacking... Tricky, sensitive topic... Requires really solid foundation and broad knowledge...

A Cultural History of Physics ?

 

[pines-demon]

Philosophy is already a proven rabbit- sink- and black hole, all-in-one: a very lucky topic may survive even up to five posts these days, of which maybe two being worthy, including the termination notice from the mentor...

History of physics is good learning exercise if done well, but it's quite prone to hijacking... Tricky, sensitive topic... Requires really solid foundation and broad knowledge...

A Cultural History of Physics ?

I agree it should be just history of physics.

I see a lot of discussion about the rules, but what would be different from the "Art, Music, History, and Linguistics" forum?

 

[phinds]

A Cultural History of Physics ?

$65 --- I'll pass

 

[pines-demon]

@Greg Bernhardt what about a history and music subforums to be created inside "Art, music, history and linguistic". After all this time I still think we need more focus there.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

@Greg Bernhardt what about a history and music subforums to be created inside "Art, music, history and linguistic". After all this time I still think we need more focus there.

So is the hypothesis that if we create a music and history subforum it will increase participation?

 

[pines-demon]

So is the hypothesis that if we create a music and history subforum it will increase participation?

Maybe not, I took me a week or more to find where the subforums were. But at least it would be easier to skim through them and keep track.

I still find difficult finding where the action is for the forums/topics I care. For the history stuff it just seems weird that it is mixed with a lot of stuff. Ideally, we would have a history forum and a history of physics subforum.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Maybe not, I took me a week or more to find where the subforums were. But at least it would be easier to skim through them and keep track.

I still find difficult finding where the action is for the forums/topics I care. For the history stuff it just seems weird that it is mixed with a lot of stuff. Ideally, we would have a history forum and a history of physics subforum.

Yeah, I agree that it's a catch-all for some loosely related topics. It was branched off of General Discussion. Creating a sub forum will help group them together but that does add another depth level to the threads requiring members to make an addition click to find them.

 

[pines-demon]

Yeah, I agree that it's a catch-all for some loosely related topics. It was branched off of General Discussion. Creating a sub forum will help group them together but that does add another depth level to the threads requiring members to make an addition click to find them.

Maybe a history forum with tags like (Science) or something of sorts?

 

[Vanadium 50]

Since this thread was posted, there have been something like 1.2-1.3 messages per day posted on physics history. This sounds to me not like a failure of organization, but that it's not something many present members want to talk all that much about.

It seems to me that if the OP wants more activity, the way to get it is to evangelize amongst like-minded people. That seems much more likely to help than a re-arrangement of sections.

 

[Frabjous]

I am of mixed feelings about the thread. I view a good science story as a treat, but I do not like eating it in bulk.
I think a fundamental issue is that history is a “fact” and “facts” are hard to discuss.
I am not sure if a forum functions well as a compendium. While I read new music posts and occasionally get recommendations from them, I would not go there if I was actively looking for recommendations. I think PF works best when one is looking for a specific topic, not a general one.
I do think the lounge could use some cleaning up, but I doubt it is worth the effort and aggravation it would cause various members. Except the wordle thread. Please add wordle to the forbidden topics list.
If I had to do one thing, I would create a music/tv/movies/pop culture subforum. There are a ton of those posts which would longer be in the other subforums.

 

[phinds]

I think a fundamental issue is that history is a “fact”

Historical "facts" are sometimes contentious and they are not what is most interesting about history anyway. What is more interesting is the interpretation of history and that can be VERY contentious**.

We do not need more contention on PF.

**That is perhaps less true for the history of science than history in general.

 

[pinball1970]

Intention good. A good poster who gave thoughtful extensive feedback. History of physics? Probably not but I like him.

 

[gmax137]

I think the wordle thread is harmless. There are only about 8 or 10 posters participating. It doesnt spawn new threads. Anyone who doesn't like it can click past.

 

[sbrothy]

I'm trying something to that effect with this thread....

 

[syfry]

Since this thread was posted, there have been something like 1.2-1.3 messages per day posted on physics history. This sounds to me not like a failure of organization, but that it's not something many present members want to talk all that much about.

Out of curiosity, 1.2 messages posted in which area... in the lounge under the exciting sub forum of feedback and announcements?

We can go the science route and test the hypothesis: open a main sub for science history, and see what happens instead of relying on our assumptions.

Plenty of people are attracted to questions about how we've made the discoveries and where they've led, interactions, etc, in the development of science.

The older TV show Connections has been popular since the 1970s, for example.

Learning the in and outs, the wrong and right turns in the steps toward discovery does help people to gain a better understanding.

Also how science has evolved.

A main forum for that could be good. But only testing that will tell us for sure.

Maybe name it Science History.

 

[Rive]

A main forum for that could be good.

You should be aware that the history of science is actually not the kind of science what is mentioned in the mission statement.
The forum has no 'History' main sub either. For good reason. Would be just as messy as 'philosophy' could.

 

[pines-demon]

You should be aware that the history of science is actually not the kind of science what is mentioned in the mission statement.
The forum has no 'History' main sub either. For good reason. Would be just as messy as 'philosophy' could.

I think this can be handled in two ways. First, we do have a history forum, it is just mixed with a lot of other things (art, music, linguistics). Secondly, I do think that a science history forum can be moderated in the same way as other forums, for questions where somebody is trying to understand the historical context of some anecdotes, both the question and the answers should use references. I think that for history of science, this is far less controversial than a philosophy forum (or a world history forum).

 

[Rive]

I think that for history of science, this is far less controversial than a philosophy forum.

Maybe. But on the other hand, it opens a door for some long discarded theories to be discussed.

 

[pines-demon]

Maybe. But on the other hand, it opens a door for some long discarded theories to be discussed.

That's what mentors are for. I mean this kind of theories can appear too right now.

 

[syfry]

You should be aware that the history of science is actually not the kind of science what is mentioned in the mission statement.

Context from history adds a vital perspective and makes science come alive.

Students study the history of models and theory, right?

Einstein had updated an equation in his original paper after publishing it, nearer to the eclipse, and good thing for his adjustment had brought observation of the sun's gravitational deflection of the star in line with his theory.

Also noteworthy is the people who had been hovering so near to the discovery of special relativity (practically stumbling onto it right under their noses), etc.

It's valuable for people to see how science works, the corrections and adjustments, the meandering paths, the collaborations.

Maybe. But on the other hand, it opens a door for some long discarded theories to be discussed.

It's history, not alternate history. Not what ifs.

Placement matters too. Placing it in the lounge might imply that anything goes, so such a sub forum is probably better off in other sciences.