Why were Buckyballs banned by the government?

[Curious3141]

So you agree: a toy. Just confirming that.

Just like sex toys are toys, too. I suppose you don't think there's anything worrisome about a child having access to those either.

 

[DaveC426913]

I don't really have an opinion on the topic, but it is frustrating seeing so many strong opinions that completely ignore one of the most important aspects of the situation.

Thank you. It does seem that my detractors are picky about which parts of my argument they refute, missing that it is a conflagration of conditions.

 

[DaveC426913]

Just like sex toys are toys, too. I suppose you don't think there's anything worrisome about a child having access to those either.

1] Sex toys are not toys in the sense of the word toy. They have a specific purpose and a place, and it's not to be left out on the counter or desk for someone to pick up and play with for entertainment. That's enough to define their use as under reasonably controlled conditions.
And even if it isn't:
2] How many sex toys do you know that a child could easily accidentally swallow and give them life-threatening injuries?

You keep setting up these red herrings and I'll keep knockin' em down.I can propose some likewise silly counter-examples. There should be no problem making toys out of lead. As long as they are properly labeled, it is the parent's responsibility to properly check out anything their kids play with. No corporation should be burdened with the responsibility of producing toys that are safe for kids.

 

[Curious3141]

How many sex toys do you know that a child could easily accidentally swallow?

You're completely missing the point here. You seem to be bent on scoring debating points by equating one type of "toy" with all others. I'm merely pointing out the ludicrousness of your stand.

I repeat: this is a desk "toy" *for adults*. It is not a children's toy, nor is it intended to be. It is as far from being a child's plaything as a dildo or a fleshlight would be. To let a child have access to this thing, let alone unfettered and unsupervised access to the point where they actually swallow the thing is parental irresponsibility. Noone to blame but the parents. End of story.

 

[DaveC426913]

It is as far from being a child's plaything as a dildo or a fleshlight would be. To let a child have access to this thing, let alone unfettered and unsupervised access to the point where they actually swallow the thing is parental irresponsibility.

Let's walk through it.

Why is it bad to let children have access to it? Humor me.

 

[Curious3141]

Let's walk through it.

Why is it bad to let children have access to it? Humor me.

Because a parent should be aware of the risks posed if it's swallowed, for example. It's meant for adults to amuse themselves with and adorn their desk with. It's meant to be kept away from kids because it's not safe for kids to be playing with!

If a kid got hold of it and managed to swallow it with dire consequences, then it's very unfortunate, but the parent(s)/babysitter(s)/other responsible adult(s) are the ones to blame. Not the manufacturer, which has *never* tried to market this as a kid's product!

What are you finding so difficult about this?

 

[Hurkyl]

Chipped teeth, inhalation, possible heavy-metal poisoning, bacterial infection, acute embarrassment, appendicitis... That's off the top of my head, but I'm sure that I could come up with more if I do some research.

Good. Also, note the likelihood of the individual complications is important. Getting holes punched in your digestive system is not on the list.


You talk about people neglecting the dangers of a golf tee, but you don't realize that BuckyTees, due to an accident of its design, release a potent poison when in direct contact with blood. You laughed at your buddy getting stabbed from sitting on a golf tee he wasn't aware of. If it happened to be a BuckyTee, would you still find it a laughing matter?

 

[DaveC426913]

What are you finding so difficult about this?

Like I said. Humor me. You are leaping to conclusions that I think are shaky.

Because a parent should be aware of the risks posed if it's swallowed, for example.

And how would parents know this?

Magnets have been around for a century or more, and have never been a cause for life-threatening injuries, even if swallowed. As parents, we learn what is a danger and what is not. As I mentioned, we learn that every child who swallows a nickel does not get an ambulance ride to Emerg. Every child that eats dirt is not an idiot.

But.

Now something has changed. With little fanfare and little physical sign, magnets have become a device that can lead to life-threatening injuries.

How exactly are all parents (not just 90%, but all) supposed to know that something's changed? Do you think all parents have an account on ThinkGeek?

Responsible parents are simply not prepared for this change. The public needs to be made more aware of this (just like they did when microwave ovens first came out for example). Simply telling corporations they should put better labels on the packaging is not working. Corporations need to take some share of the responsibility. And threatening to ban a product is a good way (possibly the only way) to get a corporation to come to the table to solve this problem.

 

[Nano-Passion]

I have studied this in my English composition class. The two sides will not come to terms with each other, both opinions will be influenced by their personality traits and past experience. For example a conservative vs. a liberal mindset (I've did a research paper on this before).

Best that can happen is for the two sides to acknowledge that they are both right in their own respect. There shouldn't be any derogatory comments against the other side, we live in a complex subjective world.

If I remember the quote right, it goes by the saying that a fool is often so certain, while the wise is not completely certain about anything. With that said, both sides have very good points.

Corporations need to take some share of the responsibility.

In most cases they should. In this case though it seems that the corporation gave a good effort in keeping it away from kids. But they can probably do better, such as an explicit warning on the box itself that might say something like "Warning, very dangerous if swallowed due to x,y,z."

And threatening to ban a product is a good way (possibly the only way) to get a corporation to come to the table to solve this problem.

Yep, that is often how the world works.

 

[Monique]

What part is not clear?

Warning Keep Away From All Children! Do not put in nose or mouth. Swallowed magnets stick to intestines causing serious injury or death. Seek immediate medical attention if magnets are swallowed or inhaled.

 

[Nano-Passion]

What part is not clear?

Warning Keep Away From All Children! Do not put in nose or mouth. Swallowed magnets stick to intestines causing serious injury or death. Seek immediate medical attention if magnets are swallowed or inhaled.

Is this located on the cover of the box or in a paper packet that nobody really reads?

 

[Char. Limit]

Is this located on the cover of the box or in a paper packet that nobody really reads?

If you don't read the packet, that's kinda your fault.

 

[Monique]

Is this located on the cover of the box or in a paper packet that nobody really reads?

http://www.onefoottsunami.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/20100917buckyballs/buckyballs.jpg

 

[Danger]

Good. Also, note the likelihood of the individual complications is important. Getting holes punched in your digestive system is not on the list.


You talk about people neglecting the dangers of a golf tee, but you don't realize that BuckyTees, due to an accident of its design, release a potent poison when in direct contact with blood. You laughed at your buddy getting stabbed from sitting on a golf tee he wasn't aware of. If it happened to be a BuckyTee, would you still find it a laughing matter?

Very mature of you; I answer your question and you change the rules to something totally in the realm of fantasy. As for the perforation, have you ever seen a ruptured appendix? My father was less than 10 minutes away from dying because his blew in the ambulance. One of your innocent little metal balls can cause that, whether or not you care to admit it.

we learn that every child who swallows a nickel does not get an ambulance ride to Emerg. Every child that eats dirt is not an idiot.

Wrong on both counts. We don't learn any such thing; it's just your opinion with no basis in fact.

Best that can happen is for the two sides to acknowledge that they are both right in their own respect. There shouldn't be any derogatory comments against the other side, we live in a complex subjective world.

Quiet, you! This is no place for logic.

 

[Monique]

I see only 1 case reported by the CDC of a child dying by swallowed magnets since 2002.

Thousands of children die yearly by guns. Just sayin'..

 

[DaveC426913]

Best that can happen is for the two sides to acknowledge that they are both right in their own respect. There shouldn't be any derogatory comments against the other side, we live in a complex subjective world.

I agree.Point of order, in case there was some misunderstanding: my claim was never that these things should be banned; my claim was only that, while at first glance, it seemed a pretty obvious case of caveat emptor, second glance suggested this is a hazard that needs to be dealt with before someone dies.

And I do believe that, as a part of society, we are supposed to come together to help each other from harm.

In the marine world there's a saying: When an accident happens, it's everyone's fault.

 

[Evo]

I agree.


Point of order, in case there was some misunderstanding: my claim was never that these things should be banned; my claim was only that, while at first glance, it seemed a pretty obvious case of caveat emptor, second glance suggested this is a hazard that needs to be dealt with before someone dies.

And I do believe that, as a part of society, we are supposed to come together to help each other from harm.

In the marine world there's a saying: When an accident happens, it's everyone's fault.

It would be wrong to baby-proof the entire world. It's beyond ridiculous to even suggest it. That's why there are parents and warnings and common sense, and we don't sell guns and poisons to babies. The magneitc balls fall under the above.

 

[DaveC426913]

It would be wrong to baby-proof the entire world. It's beyond ridiculous to even suggest it.

No one did, so I don't know why you bring it up.

and common sense,

Part of my argument is that new technology renders "common sense" moot. How can you have common sense about something you've never encountered before or don't know about, or worst of all, thought you knew about but they changed the rules?Anyway, I've made my point. Several times in fact.

 

[Evo]

Anyway, I've made my point. Several times in fact.

What, that everyone is responsible for the stupidity of others? I disagree.

 

[DaveC426913]

What, that everyone is responsible for the stupidity of others? I disagree.

It is disingenuous of you to cherry pick parts of my argument, eliminate them, then substitute your own words. It is also an indication that you have no better argument than to put words in my mouth.

I was trying to have an intelligent discussion and encourage people see an alternate point of view than the self-reinforcing one they usually stick with. But I'm not up for schoolyard arguing tactics.

:raspberry:

 

[Nano-Passion]

Quiet, you! This is no place for logic.

Darn! Why didn't someone tell me earlier?

This thread shows me why politics takes years (I'll revisit this thread after a couple of years when a consensus is reached)! It has also showed me why I decided not to go into politics.

 

[Evo]

It is disingenuous of you to cherry pick parts of my argument, eliminate them, then substitute your own words. It is also an indication that you have no better argument than to put words in my mouth.

I was trying to have an intelligent discussion and encourage people see an alternate point of view than the self-reinforcing one they usually stick with. But I'm not up for schoolyard arguing tactics.

:raspberry:

I am specifically responding to your post.

And I do believe that, as a part of society, we are supposed to come together to help each other from harm.

In the marine world there's a saying: When an accident happens, it's everyone's fault.

So stop the schoolyard tactics dave, you been warned before about your inability to stop the "devil's advocate" nonsense. Arguing just for the sake of arguing. Stop it.

 

[Evo]

It was an attempt at levity, to prevent the thread from going sour.

The thread is being looked at by the mentors now.