With College Starting Up in Week or Two, How Are Your Campus COVID Rules?

[kyphysics]

I know lots of people here are in undergrad or graduate school (some maybe even as faculty). I'm curious how your institution is handling the return-to-school process in the midst of COVID/Delta?

Are you at 100% capacity? Maybe 50% (with a hybrid online mix, for example)? Will masks and/or social distancing be required at your institution? Are there other rules or accommodations being made in the midst of the virus this Fall? ...Or, is it everything fully back to "normal" (pre-COVID) now?

eta: What about proof of vaccination? Been seeing a lot of colleges require it lately. I personally can totally understand such a requirement for safety reasons. Lots of college faculty are elderly and certainly can be difficult to "replace" should something happen to them (think of leading experts and Nobel Laureates).

 

[mcastillo356]

Hi, kyphysics!
www.uned.es

 

[Leo Liu]

I go to Waterloo.

Are you at 100% capacity? Maybe 50% (with a hybrid online mix, for example)? Will masks and/or social distancing be required at your institution? Are there other rules or accommodations being made in the midst of the virus this Fall? ...Or, is it everything fully back to "normal" (pre-COVID) now?

Nope. My university will deliver courses in three ways: 1. completely online 2. online lectures with in-person recitations 3. completely in-person. Most upper year students will have around 50% of courses in-person, some hybrid courses, and one or none mode 1 courses (e.g. analytical mechanics), since the school probably agrees that online courses are not as effective as in-person courses, and not being able to socialize with their peers is detrimental to students' mental well-bing and mental health.

International students will be allowed to live in quarantine facilities provided by the school for 11 days (the duration required by the Canadian government after the mandated 3-day first quarantine) if they pay $100 which is a huge discount compared to the quarantine hotels designated by the Ontario government.

As to the use of masks, you still have to wear them in the buildings even if you have received vaccination. While it is better than staying at home, university life is not the same as it was pre-pandemic. Personally, I don't see things will go back to normal soon, as more vaccine-resistant variants are now emerging; instead, I think we and the virus should learn to coexist.

eta: What about proof of vaccination? Been seeing a lot of colleges require it lately. I personally can totally understand such a requirement for safety reasons. Lots of college faculty are elderly and certainly can be difficult to "replace" should something happen to them (think of leading experts and Nobel Laureates).

Students are required to be vaccinated if they live in school's residences. However if you decide to live off-campus you can continue being an anti-vaccine person (if you want). In my opinion we shouldn't worry too much given that those who are vulnerable to the virus get their jabs because research has shown that vaccines cannot prevent the transmission from a vaccinated person to an unvaccinated one, so they afford protection to the injected person for the most part.

 

[George Jones]

At the somewhat small university where I teach, classes have been online since March 2020. In September, current plans are to move to in-person classes at 100% capacity, with optional masks and optional vaccines (recommended). This includes section of first-classes that might have 100 - 200 students

In Canada, the only post-secondary schools of which I am aware that require vaccines are Ottawa University and Seneca College. There quite possibly are others that I have not yet heard about.
https://www.uottawa.ca/coronavirus/en/mandatory-covid-19-vaccination
https://www.senecacollege.ca/about/policies/vaccination-policy.html

Lots of college faculty are elderly

At what age does your definition does your definition of "elderly" start?

 

[kyphysics]

At what age does your definition does your definition of "elderly" start?

Maybe 65-ish?

 

[kyphysics]

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/su...ty-students-fighting-covid-19-vaccine-mandate

U.S. Supreme Court upholds Indiana University vax mandate, as Amy Coney Barrett denies students' appeal.

In my opinion we shouldn't worry too much given that those who are vulnerable to the virus get their jabs because research has shown that vaccines cannot prevent the transmission from a vaccinated person to an unvaccinated one, so they afford protection to the injected person for the most part.

I think the worry is you could have some tragic consequences at colleges opening fully back to 100% capacity w/o some protective measures in place, given a still significant unvaxed U.S. population + large campus gatherings. Maybe a huge campus outbreak + a few deaths (not to mention the campus city community) would be a stain on the school's experience.

I guess I feel uncomfortable about those schools that go back to pre-COVID life w/o safety measures in place. There are a lot of unknowns and Delta is still surging. College starts in one week for many U.S. undergrads.

 

[kyphysics]

So, this wasn't college, but it could be an interesting portend of things to come:
https://www.usnews.com/news/education-news/articles/2021-08-11/1-000-kids-in-mississippi-test-positive-for-covid-19-after-school-reopens

Nearly 5,000 children, educators and school staff are quarantined in Mississippi after returning to classrooms at the start of the new school year, some under https://www.usnews.com/news/education-news/articles/2021-08-05/mask-mandate-bans-spark-confusion-concern-as-unvaccinated-kids-head-to-school.

In related news:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2021/08/11/teen-covid-vaccines-parent-attitudes-survey/

As schools prepare to open for a third straight pandemic-strained year, about half of parents are holding off on coronavirus vaccinations for their children, taking a wait-and-see attitude or, for many, outright opposing the shots, a new survey finds.

The Kaiser Family Foundation poll finds significant barriers to increasing vaccination among children ages 12 to 17, who have the lowest rates of any age group at 41 percent. Large shares of parents of unvaccinated children say they fear the long-term effects of the vaccine as well as serious side effects. Many parents who are vaccinated are still holding off on inoculating their children, the survey found.

 

[berkeman]

I guess I feel uncomfortable about those schools that go back to pre-COVID life w/o safety measures in place. There are a lot of unknowns and Delta is still surging. College starts in one week for many U.S. undergrads.

We may need to consider moving this thread from GD to the Biology/Medical forum, depending on which way it continues to go. Discussing what the policies are at individual colleges probably can stay in GD, but veering into the science behind the Delta variant problems and issues probably should belong in the Bio/Med forum.

The main problems with the Delta variant (and what happens with school openings) seems to pivot on the higher R0 for Delta, and well as the higher viral loads and higher viral shedding in infected vaccinated individuals. All of which points to reinstating social distancing and mask mandates.

I will ask the Mentors where this thread now belongs...

 

[kyphysics]

ok, no problem (don't mind relocating if need be - but I also plan to stick to discussing college policies/news too...kind of just threw in Delta as a "background" point)

 

[jasonRF]

I'm in the workforce, but my elder daughter will be a sophomore this year after taking last year off. Her school requires vaccines for all faculty and staff that will be on campus and (just announced this week) they will require masks indoors. Online classes are available for anyone to take, and of course are the only option for those that are unvaccinated. Medical exemptions for the vaccine require the signature of a physician, but I'm not sure how religious exemptions are handled. It seems like that could get tricky quite quickly.

EDIT: this is in the US.

jason

 

[hutchphd]

It is insane to not require inoculation. What planet do inhabit? All of my associated institutions agree.

 

[jtbell]

At the small private college where I used to teach, in a small town in South Carolina:

Students must notify the college of their vaccination status, by (a) providing their vaccination card, (b) claiming medical or religious exemption, or (c) claiming "strong personal objection" to vaccination. The college plans to require all students in group (c) to get vaccinated after the FDA grants full approval to the vaccines.

Faculty and staff have also been asked to provide their vaccination card if they have one, so that the college knows who's vaccinated and who isn't. I haven't seen yet that a decision has been reached about requiring them to be vaccinated at some point.

Everyone must wear a mask inside non-residential buildings, with some exceptions: faculty in their offices, students working alone in a classroom or lab after class hours, people in the process of eating in the dining hall or student center, students in their dorm rooms, etc.

Outdoors, masks are optional, unlike last year, when even visitors were asked to wear masks when walking through campus (there were signs at all footpaths entering campus).

One of our nearby private college "competitors" has similar policies, from what I've seen in the news recently.

At state colleges and universities (U of South Carolina, Clemson, and the smaller campuses and community colleges) things are different. Per order of the governor, state agencies and institutions must not require vaccination or masks.

 

[jasonRF]

It is insane to not require inoculation. What planet do inhabit? All of my associated institutions agree.

Per order of the governor, state agencies and institutions must not require vaccination or masks.

That is a special kind of insanity. Is it unique to the US, or do other countries have this problem as well?

 

[BillTre]

Some other countries do it, for example autocrats, like Balsonaro in Brasil.
I don't understand what advantage they think they will get, from not taking rational actions, that would cost them nothing, and would benefit their people (which would reflect well on them).
With Trump, it seemed to be too much embarassment in admitting he was wrong, but he admitted to Woodward that he understood what the potential danger was with the virus, but still did the opposite of the right thing.
Maybe its "owning the libs"? (Refusing to admit the correctness of science types)?

 

[mcastillo356]

That is a special kind of insanity. Is it unique to the US, or do other countries have this problem as well?

I cannot understand it. I personally think common sense will prevail in the end. At UPV-EHU, Basque Country, this is the link related with virus and teaching I've found. Comparisons are not ...realistic, reliable, in my opinion.
https://www.ehu.eus/en/en-home

 

[Dr Transport]

I'm in a unique situation.

I'm teaching at a small liberal arts school this semester. They are requiring full vaxx status or a religious/medical deferment. If you show/feel any of the symptoms, you'll have to quarantine 10 days or show a negative test.

I'm going back to another local school starting int the spring to take a few data science classes. They require that you check in daily on an app and if you do not, the app shows that you are restricted. You must show the app when entering any building/classroom. If you show up and are restricted, you will be asked to leave until you are cleared. If at any time you post that you are showing any symptoms, the app locks as restricted until you provide a negative test or 14 days has elapsed. provided you have checked in daily on the app.

 

[Astronuc]

Maybe 65-ish?

Maybe 50-ish. The head of my department, who was an avid runner, died from a heart attack (in a hospital ER) at age 52 (years after I had left university). After a run, he didn't feel well, so he was taken to hospital, where his condition worsened. He had a massive heart attack/cardiac arrest. He had a slender build, and he seemed in good health. Maybe it was stress.

 

[kyphysics]

I'm going back to another local school starting int the spring to take a few data science classes. They require that you check in daily on an app and if you do not, the app shows that you are restricted. You must show the app when entering any building/classroom. If you show up and are restricted, you will be asked to leave until you are cleared. If at any time you post that you are showing any symptoms, the app locks as restricted until you provide a negative test or 14 days has elapsed. provided you have checked in daily on the app.

Interesting. Am I right to assume you mean the app requires self-reporting of possible virus symptoms? If so, that would leave open a door for "cheaters." Still, that's an interesting protocol your school is adopting.

 

[Dr Transport]

Interesting. Am I right to assume you mean the app requires self-reporting of possible virus symptoms? If so, that would leave open a door for "cheaters." Still, that's an interesting protocol your school is adopting.

instituting a daily on-site test would be completely un-doable, so it depends on your integrity. But they reserve the right to ban you from campus if you are not reporting truthfully. It is as private university, so they can set any rules they want and it is equated with academic dishonesty.

 

[kyphysics]

That is a special kind of insanity. Is it unique to the US, or do other countries have this problem as well?

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/12/us/delta-variant-colleges-vaccines.html

Yet, even as infections rise, public universities in Texas are denied the most potent tools to stop the spread — they cannot force students or staff to get vaccines or even wear masks. Gov. Greg Abbott of Texas renewed his ban on vaccine and mask mandates in late July. As many as 20 Republican-led states forbid vaccine mandates in some form.

While their public institutions are hamstrung, more than 500 other public and private colleges around the country have instituted vaccine requirements.

Not sure about other countries, but within the U.S., there does seems to be a political divide as to where colleges may be banning vax and mask mandates - mainly Republican states (*just stating this as a fact - nothing more implied).

It'll be interesting to see if they change their stances after a few weeks of college. I might imagine allowing mask mandates - even if not vaccine ones. People (per surveys) seem more willing to accept a mask mandate than a vaccine one. Although, even with a vaccine mandate, that will take about six weeks for the person to be fully vaccinated (...and colleges are already starting up).

 

[George Jones]

At the somewhat small university where I teach, classes have been online since March 2020. In September, current plans are to move to in-person classes at 100% capacity, with optional masks and optional vaccines (recommended). This includes section of first-classes that might have 100 - 200 students

In Canada, the only post-secondary schools of which I am aware that require vaccines are Ottawa University and Seneca College. There quite possibly are others that I have not yet heard about.
https://www.uottawa.ca/coronavirus/en/mandatory-covid-19-vaccination
https://www.senecacollege.ca/about/policies/vaccination-policy.html

At state colleges and universities (U of South Carolina, Clemson, and the smaller campuses and community colleges) things are different. Per order of the governor, state agencies and institutions must not require vaccination or masks.

That is a special kind of insanity. Is it unique to the US, or do other countries have this problem as well?

In Canada, we have provinces, which are something like states, and education is provincial jurisdiction.

Since I posted, more universities in Ontario have instituted vaccine policies. The right-of-centre Ontario government have given universities the autonomy to come up with their vaccine policies.

Right now in my province, British Columbia, the (ostensibly) left-of-centre government has mandated that all universities must follow the government policy that vaccines can be recommended, but cannot be required. The government, which is under pressure, has said that there will be a further announcement next week. I have no idea what the announcement will say.

 

[StatGuy2000]

In my opinion we shouldn't worry too much given that those who are vulnerable to the virus get their jabs because research has shown that vaccines cannot prevent the transmission from a vaccinated person to an unvaccinated one, so they afford protection to the injected person for the most part.

What you state above is not completely true. There have been a number of studies that have demonstrated that those subjects who are vaccinated are far less likely to develop either symptomatic or asymptomatic infection. See the following editorial from Scientific American:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/...ccine-benefit-were-not-talking-about-enough1/

Note the following:

"In several studies of fully vaccinated health care workers—those more than two weeks past their second dose of either mRNA-based vaccine—the likelihood of having a symptomatic or asymptomatic infection was reduced by 80 to 90 percent, compared with those who were unvaccinated."

Here is the link the article sites in the direct quote above:

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7013e3.htm

In addition, the article cites research from both Israel and the UK that even in breakthrough cases, vaccinated people have much lower viral load than those who are unvaccinated, making them less likely to spread infection. Here are some additional links that the Scientific American article has cited:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01316-7

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00628-0/fulltext

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.03.10.21253173v1

https://www.ijcm.org.in/article.asp...=45;issue=3;spage=278;epage=282;aulast=Sarkar

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30985-3/fulltext

 

[hutchphd]

In addition, the article cites research from both Israel and the UK that even in breakthrough cases, vaccinated people have much lower viral load than those who are unvaccinated, making them less likely to spread infection. Here are some additional links that the Scientific American article has cited:

There is a new virus in town and its name is DELTA VARIANT.

The data you quote is missing the data for the $\Delta variant COVID$.
I have recently witnessed an outbreak in my own very careful pod of ten MRNA vaccinated people: more then half the people becoming infected serially from likely a single external one-time contact with one member. There are so far no serious clinical issues (mostly mild flulike reactions). The only unvaccinated person is a one year old who is doing OK although infected. But very clearly there was a chain of infection that spread easily through the MRNA vaccinated with a 4-5 day incubation. I am fine so far.

Darwin may still have his way here with the unvaccinated...just please not the kids.



Most or all of the

 

[vela]

One of the schools I teach at is allowing a few more on-campus classes, but the majority of classes will be held remotely. All faculty, staff, and students who need to be on campus must be cleared, meaning they need to be vaccinated or have a religious or medical exemption. Students who have not submitted documentation by now will supposedly be dropped from any course that meets on campus.

My other school is likewise offering most classes remotely, but there is more pressure to offer on-campus classes. It's really about money because enrollment is down significantly because many prospective students are avoiding remote classes. I don't know what the vaccination policy.^* I just know that when the topic of requiring vaccination came up a month or two ago, a number of faculty objected, spreading misinformation and citing dubious sources. It was kind of pathetic really.

Edit: ^*It appears there is no requirement for students to be vaccinated, wear masks, or social distance. There is currently no vaccine mandate for faculty either. I also learned the state apparently pays less for remote classes than in-person classes, which is another reason for the pressure to offer on-campus classes.

 

[Ygggdrasil]

There is a new virus in town and its name is DELTA VARIANT.

The data you quote is missing the data for the $\Delta variant COVID$.
I have recently witnessed an outbreak in my own very careful pod of ten MRNA vaccinated people: more then half the people becoming infected serially from likely a single external one-time contact with one member. There are so far no serious clinical issues (mostly mild flulike reactions). The only unvaccinated person is a one year old who is doing OK although infected. But very clearly there was a chain of infection that spread easily through the MRNA vaccinated with a 4-5 day incubation. I am fine so far.

Here are some sources of data on the Delta variant:
Studies show that the mRNA vaccines reduce symptomatic infection from the Delta variant by ~60-90%, and they reduce the risk of infection by ~50-80%:
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)01358-1/fulltext
https://spiral.imperial.ac.uk/bitstream/10044/1/90800/2/react1_r13_final_preprint_final.pdf
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.28.21259420v2

Even for breakthrough infections, vaccination can also likely reduce transmission. Although vaccinated people infected with Delta show similar viral loads as unvaccinated people infected with Delta (suggesting that they would shed similar amounts of virus), studies also suggest that the vaccinated individuals are infectious for a lesser amount of time because vaccination helps them clear the virus from their bodies faster:
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.28.21261295v1

So, yes you are correct that the vaccine cannot prevent transmission (no vaccine can absolutely prevent transmission). However, the vaccines are effective at reducing transmission, either through preventing people from becoming infected in the first place (~50-80% effectiveness) or by reducing the amount of time people are infectious. This effectiveness in reducing transmission, however, is likely lower than with previous versions of SARS-CoV-2 (and lower than we would want for "herd immunity"), which is why additional measures like masking are likely required to prevent significant outbreaks in schools and universities during the next academic year.

 

[jtbell]

At state colleges and universities (U of South Carolina, Clemson, and the smaller campuses and community colleges) things are different. Per order of the governor, state agencies and institutions must not require vaccination or masks.

I apparently got confused here. The universities were blocked from mandating masks by a "proviso" inserted by the state legislature into the state budget. Today the SC Supreme Court ruled that proviso invalid. The U of SC and Clemson University quickly announced mask mandates.

https://www.thestate.com/news/local/education/article253525924.html (The State newspaper, Columbia)

The governor's executive order apparently applies to other state agencies and offices.

 

[StevieTNZ]

All schools and universities are closed in NZ because we're at alert level four with delta spreading in the community.

 

[StatGuy2000]

There is a new virus in town and its name is DELTA VARIANT.

The data you quote is missing the data for the $\Delta variant COVID$.
I have recently witnessed an outbreak in my own very careful pod of ten MRNA vaccinated people: more then half the people becoming infected serially from likely a single external one-time contact with one member. There are so far no serious clinical issues (mostly mild flulike reactions). The only unvaccinated person is a one year old who is doing OK although infected. But very clearly there was a chain of infection that spread easily through the MRNA vaccinated with a 4-5 day incubation. I am fine so far.

Darwin may still have his way here with the unvaccinated...just please not the kids.



Most or all of the

I am well aware of the Delta variant, but if you have bothered to read the Scientific American article, the basic points of what I stated still apply.

The current COVID-19 vaccines available are highly effective at preventing serious disease even against the Delta variant (as your own post itself demonstrates). There has also been evidence that the vaccines are partially effective at limiting the spread of infection to others.

Given the nature of the Delta variant, which generates multiple times more virus within an individual, the vaccines are only partially effective at preventing infection and spread (hence why "breakthrough" infections are still possible). But even partial effectiveness can, with a large percentage of the population vaccinated, can limit further spread.

Key takeaway - the greater percentage who are vaccinated around the world, the sooner the worst of the pandemic can end. Nothing you stated contradicts this point.

 

[kyphysics]

All schools and universities are closed in NZ because we're at alert level four with delta spreading in the community.

Randomly, I saw this from CNN:
https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/17/asia/new-zealand-lockdown-one-case-intl-hnk/index.html

New Zealand announces it's locking down the entire country ... over one Covid case​

 

[hutchphd]

Key takeaway - the greater percentage who are vaccinated around the world, the sooner the worst of the pandemic can end. Nothing you stated contradicts this point.

Nor was that my intent. Absolutely the only visible way out of this is world wide vaccination. I was in fact trying to point out that in my personal experience the Delta variant is a nontrivially worse actor and if we do not get our collective act together we will be SOL (sorta outa luck)

 

[StatGuy2000]

Nor was that my intent. Absolutely the only visible way out of this is world wide vaccination. I was in fact trying to point out that in my personal experience the Delta variant is a nontrivially worse actor and if we do not get our collective act together we will be SOL (sorta outa luck)

In Canada (where I am from) at the national level, as of today we have about 73% of the population who have received at least one dose of the COVID-19 vaccine, and 65% who are fully vaccinated (as opposed to only about 51% fully vaccinated in the US). The percentage shoots up if you look at the percentage of people who are eligible to be vaccinated (which is anyone 12 and above).

Given those numbers, I'm optimistic that if our governments (at both the federal and provincial levels) push forward with vaccinations, we could potentially get to as much as 90% of the eligible population who are fully vaccinated (there will always some people who will not be vaccinated under any circumstances, but I suspect that would only a small percentage of people, at least here in Canada).

 

[kyphysics]

At the pre-college level, stories like these may put pressure to reverse school policy:

16-year-old South Carolina student dies from Covid-19 complications as school district struggles with infections​

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/16/us/lancaster-county-south-carolina-student-covid-death/index.html

13-Year-Old Mississippi Girl Dies of COVID After Governor Tate Reeves Called Mask Guidance 'Foolish​

https://www.yahoo.com/news/13-old-mississippi-girl-dies-221034144.html

11-Year-Old Jordyn Franklin Died From COVID-19 Minutes Before Doctor’s Visit​

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/11-old-jordyn-franklin-died-193058281.html

3 Florida Educators Die Of COVID-19 Within 24 Hours As Schools Prepare To Reopen​

https://www.npr.org/sections/corona...nty-florida-teachers-covid-coronavirus-deaths

Virus outbreaks temporarily close 4 Texas school districts​

https://apnews.com/article/health-t...rus-pandemic-8e78f68e2c0f118a3cc0c7cc68ff28cc

 

[hutchphd]

Within the province of Ontario (where I live), that percentage shoots up to 82% who have received at least one dose and 75% fully vaccinated.

In Indianapolis it is slightly over 50% fully vax. The governor, although Republican, is not from the large and vocal Luddite wing.
Just got off the phone with another friend who is feeling poorly and going in for PCR test...luckily (for me) I haven't had contact in several weeks..

 

[jtbell]

Students must notify the college of their vaccination status, by (a) providing their vaccination card, (b) claiming medical or religious exemption, or (c) claiming "strong personal objection" to vaccination. The college plans to require all students in group (c) to get vaccinated after the FDA grants full approval to the vaccines.

The college's campus life office reported this week the statistics for students so far:

• 60% are fully vaccinated
• 7% have requested a waiver or exemption
• 34% have not replied yet

Students start returning to campus next week.

Faculty and staff have also been asked to provide their vaccination card if they have one, so that the college knows who's vaccinated and who isn't.

So far, 72% of faculty and staff have been vaccinated.

For comparion, in the state of South Carolina, 51% of people over age 18 have been fully vaccinated. In this rural county, the figure is 36%.

 

[vela]

Edit: ^*It appears there is no requirement for students to be vaccinated, wear masks, or social distance. There is currently no vaccine mandate for faculty either. I also learned the state apparently pays less for remote classes than in-person classes, which is another reason for the pressure to offer on-campus classes.

It seems the district has decided to take a slightly less disingenuous approach. There's still no vaccination requirement for students, but there is a mask requirement when indoors. Social distancing is encouraged.