Would You Kill Lizards Hanging Around Your House & Pooping?

[kyphysics]

We get these lizard things (not sure if it's a lizard or some close reptile cousin) hanging around the sides of house and inside the garage (never inside the actual home). They leave poop everywhere.

I've caught a bunch with sticky traps. They walk across it and get stuck on them. They starve to death and die and we throw them away. I told this to a neighbor and he said he leaves them alone, because they eat the annoying bugs around you - even termites (which we think we NOW HAVE - as I found what seems to be a mud tube and a freaking small bug with white-ish wings near it).

So, for him, it's an easy trade-off. Less bugs and possibly even termi te prevention vs. lizard poop (which he can just clean up like dog poop).

Same question holds for possums. They are clumsy, shy, and weird looking animals. Yet, they eat all the really bad bugs around the neighborhood. Run them off our property or let them "hang out" to kill the annoying bugs?

 

[Baluncore]

I was told, don't kill anything unless you are prepared to eat it, but I don't always do what I am told.

If poop is the only problem, then find out what the lizards are eating that produces so much poop. Can you identify their prey from their poop? You may find the lizards preferable to their live prey.
They sound a bit like geckos. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gecko
Please ask Google and Wikipedia exactly what species of lizard you have.

Last winter, the rats were so hungry they ate a hole in the floor of a room filled with computers, and I can't find the hole. I have been trapping the rats, but now I have an uninvited house guest following and also hunting the rats. It is a 5 foot long, orange-striped tiger snake. It is probably discussing with its mate now, whether to kill me or let me live. If you are reading this, please note that I feed the rats that you like so much, and my bed is quite warm on the coldest winter nights. All reptiles are protected in Tasmania, but I don't always do what I am told.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_snake

 

[BillTre]

Well, you moved into an established environment. Certain things go with it.

The first thing I would do is talk with local people knowledgeable about these things.
If you want any real advise, you should identify where this is and what species you are talking about.
Its not difficult to take a picture and google search it for animals in your local area.
No one else can do this better than you.

There are probably other local resources knowledgeable in your specific local problems.

If you try to kill them on your house, they will probably come back from neighboring areas unless you can change what attracts them.

 

[jack action]

Before killing an animal, you may want to refer to your local laws. Here's an example about squirrels in Ontario:

Question: “Is it Legal to Kill Squirrels in Ontario?”
Squirrels / By Tommas

Citizens of Ontario, Canada may have a hard time knowing that in most cases, squirrels aren’t allowed to be killed in urban areas. In fact, it’s illegal and killing squirrels in urban areas is deemed as inhumane.

Hunting, however, is a different story. Squirrels are allowed to be hunted in rural areas or legal hunting zones in the Ontario province as long as a permit is on hand.

Wildlife is protected under Ontario law, so it can be very difficult to remove squirrels from your property without breaking Ontario law. Squirrels are even celebrated in Ontario; there is even a national holiday in January to celebrate squirrels called Squirrel Appreciation Day.

There are exceptions for this where you can take matters into your own hands, however this is strongly discouraged as the laws on wildlife in general are very difficult to maneuver in Ontario. Handling squirrels is best left to professionally licensed wildlife technicians who have years of experience dealing with squirrel cases.

Also, keep in mind that it is still illegal to harass or kill more squirrels than necessary to protect your property.

This means you can’t kill squirrels simply because they are relaxing on your rooftop. Ontario laws are strict regarding killing squirrels, and if you aren’t sure, it’s best to contact a professional squirrel removal company in Toronto for expert advice.

 

[Klystron]

Years ago in an ancient kingdom a wise person established a connection between insect infestations in homes and certain deadly illnesses among the home occupants. Enlarging on local ideas of the sacred within all living creatures, the kingdom elevated humble lizards who spend their lives hunting insects from amusing pests to beneficial guests in homes.

Geckoes with their ability to walk on walls became prized members of each household along with mosquito nets, various ant deterrents such as clay water traps under bed and table legs, window screens, incense smoke and fans. Deaths from insect borne diseases diminished where small house lizards proliferated. Daily floor sweepings with whisks handled by products added along with food scraps to garden soil.

 

[DaveC426913]

The choice of wording in this article amuses me:

"...squirrels aren’t allowed to be killed in urban areas..."

Did anybody inform the squirrels they aren't allowed to be killed? Do they fine them in acorns?

 

[DaveC426913]

I told this to a neighbor and he said he leaves them alone, because they eat the annoying bugs around you - even termites (which we think we NOW HAVE - as I found what seems to be a mud tube and a freaking small bug with white-ish wings near it).

Yep. Those are termites.

I take it you've answered your own question and are going to leave them alone from now on?

Same question holds for possums. They are clumsy, shy, and weird looking animals. Yet, they eat all the really bad bugs around the neighborhood. Run them off our property or let them "hang out" to kill the annoying bugs?

And rats. They also eat rats.
I had a nest of them move in under my deck when my local possum stopped playing and deaded for real.

I think the take away here is think very carefully before removing any predators.

 

[Lnewqban]

I've caught a bunch with sticky traps. They walk across it and get stuck on them. They starve to death and die and we throw them away.

It seems to me that those traps and the long time to die are unnecessary cruelties to these creatures.
Remove their source of food, and both, the reptiles and the waste, will disappear.
If you are unable to remove that food source, then, leave them be, as wisely suggested by your neighbour.

 

[kyphysics]

And rats. They also eat rats.
I had a nest of them move in under my deck when my local possum stopped playing and deaded for real.

I think the take away here is think very carefully before removing any predators.

That's interesting with rats being pray for possums.

I quite like possums, despite their ugly look and scary jaws/teeth. They are actually very clumsy, shy, and dumb. They don't know to run away from humans and often get killed by cars.

I walked up to one once (within a few feet) and he/she just froze and was too scared to move. I walked away and the possum finally started moving again and went somewhere else.

 

[kyphysics]

It seems to me that those traps and the long time to die are unnecessary cruelties to these creatures.
Remove their source of food, and both, the reptiles and the waste, will disappear.
If you are unable to remove that food source, then, leave them be, as wisely suggested by your neighbour.

Lower animal life suffering is a controversial subject. I fully understand those who want to avoid what they believe to be cruelty to other life forms. I respect it. For me, I don't think those often refered to life forms experience pain awareness like humans do and thus don't truly suffer in the way we imagine.

I take to Michael Murray's thesis in Nature Red in Tooth and Claw. https://www.amazon.com/dp/0199237271/?tag=pfamazon01-20

It's a hotly debated topic in philosophy of mind, philosophy of religion, and ethics. If a creature is not aware of pain, despite being in it, is that really suffering?

 

[DaveC426913]

Lower animal life suffering is a controversial subject. I fully understand those who want to avoid what they believe to be cruelty to other life forms. I respect it. For me, I don't think those often refered to life forms experience pain awareness like humans do and thus don't truly suffer in the way we imagine.

I struggle with this too.

I prefer to think that my compassion for lower animals isn't about their pain so much as it is about me unable to turn off my empathy (i.e. I am projecting).

 

[kyphysics]

I struggle with this too.

I prefer to think that my compassion for lower animals isn't about their pain so much as it is about me unable to turn off my empathy (i.e. I am projecting).

I can see that being true. Although, I must say, I've got zero sympathy when I smash cockroaches. Does it have a mother, father, brother, . . .friend/fellow roachmate? Maybe. But, I don't care one ounce.

Same with brown snakes. I kill them with a feeling of vengeance. No empathy.

On the other hand, if I hit a duck or possum with my car, I'd be quite sad. Odd how that is, huh?

 

[DaveC426913]

I can see that being true. Although, I must say, I've got zero sympathy when I smash cockroaches. Does it have a mother, father, brother, . . .friend/fellow roachmate? Maybe. But, I don't care one ounce.

Same with brown snakes. I kill them with a feeling of vengeance. No empathy.

On the other hand, if I hit a duck or possum with my car, I'd be quite sad. Odd how that is, huh?

Yes. It's a fickle thing.

I've had to drown mice that got caught in traps. But I feel bad about it.
I've caught spiders and carefully let them go outside.
House flies rarely get such sympathy. Certainly not roaches.

 

[Baluncore]

Although, I must say, I've got zero sympathy when I smash cockroaches.

You cannot be a truly good person, unless you have bad thoughts, and can resist them. Each insect you avoid crushing, makes you a better person.

 

[BillTre]

You cannot be a truly good person, unless you have bad thoughts, and can resist them.

Maybe so, but

Each insect you avoid crushing, makes you a better person.

There are lots of insects or other lower animals that I think would be good to kill:

• Anopheles mosquitos (especially in the western hemisphere) which spread several kinds of nasty diseases. These guys are involved in thousands or millions of deaths. Zika included.
• Guinea worm which Jimmy Carter wants to eradicate. A very nasty and painful worm infection in Africa.

 

[Baluncore]

There are lots of insects or other lower animals that I think would be good to kill:

Think "I will allow it to live and to cause much sickness", then resist that thought and crush it.

 

[BillTre]

Well, there are your values.

 

[DaveC426913]

Well, there are your values.

Could you expound upon those values that would spare a cockroach? I mean, I know there's some philosophical (Buddhist? Jainism?) view about all life being sacred, but surely not being Buddhist or Jainist doesn't make you a bad person in this day and age?

 

[hutchphd]

From the sublime to the ridiculous: Last fall I found some very strange scat in my back yard behind the garage. It was a single, isolated, cylindrical er, deposit that looked to me little different from that of a human. I was somewhat chagrinned by that resemblance and did a little research by process of elimination (no not that process....google search!) Not racoon...not dog....not bunny.. not goose.....wait, wait, definitely an Opossum turd!! They typically defecate just one smooth cylinder. Quite distinctive. FYI. Another wierd adventure.

 

[kyphysics]

I've caught spiders and carefully let them go outside.

Spiders are a tough one for me. I greatly dislike getting their webs all stuck on my face (it's so sticky and a pain to get off sometimes), but they do eat bothersome insects. They have a 50/50 chance at survival depending on my mood that day.

 

[BillTre]

Wombats make cubes.

 

[BillTre]

That link didn't work:

 

[jack action]

There are lots of insects or other lower animals that I think would be good to kill:

• Anopheles mosquitos (especially in the western hemisphere) which spread several kinds of nasty diseases. These guys are involved in thousands or millions of deaths. Zika included.

So basically, instead of getting rid of the pathogen that causes the disease, you get rid of the life form that can live with the pathogen without any problem. Kind of like "Let's kill all people who have COVID and don't have symptoms to protect those who could suffer or die from it."

 

[jrmichler]

I vote to kill deer flies, at least the ones attacking me. See the discussion in this thread: https://www.runningahead.com/forums/topic/08966a0c9bd04224beeb9bb03895a418. That thread was from a particularly bad year for deer flies.

 

[DaveC426913]

I vote to kill deer flies, at least the ones attacking me. See the discussion in this thread: https://www.runningahead.com/forums/topic/08966a0c9bd04224beeb9bb03895a418. That thread was from a particularly bad year for deer flies.

I saw these on Dragon's Den and immediately bought them (for my boat).

https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B08SFJ3P13/

They are touted to be quite effective for keeping away deer flies and horse flies.
I haven't had a chance to try them out.

 

[Vanadium 50]

I think we need to take a step back. The plan is to replace lizard poop with rotting lizards corpses? Are you sure this is a step up?

 

[DaveC426913]

I think we need to take a step back. The plan is to replace lizard poop with rotting lizards corpses? Are you sure this is a step up?

Hm. He may be making the extra effort to pull the carcasses down off the walls (where they are pooping) and toss them into the garden where they can complete the circle of life, but I don't want to speak for him.

 

[kyphysics]

Hm. He may be making the extra effort to pull the carcasses down off the walls (where they are pooping) and toss them into the garden where they can complete the circle of life, but I don't want to speak for him.

If you're referring to me, I inspect the sticky traps every other day or so. If one gets stuck, we give it 3 days to die/dry out and then throw it away. The traps are on the floor. Occasionally, we'll throw away the stuck lizard within the first day or two. . .It just depends. . .(not real logic behind it). Usually, if it's still moving, I give it 2-3 days.

Once, I think after 2 days, we saw one still move (albeit, stuck on sticky trap) - like their head/eyes.

 

[DaveC426913]

If you're referring to me, I inspect the sticky traps every other day or so. If one gets stuck, we give it 3 days to die/dry out and then throw it away. The traps are on the floor. Occasionally, we'll throw away the stuck lizard within the first day or two. . .It just depends. . .(not real logic behind it). Usually, if it's still moving, I give it 2-3 days.

Once, I think after 2 days, we saw one still move (albeit, stuck on sticky trap) - like their head/eyes.

Right. I forgot - you use sticky traps.

 

[gleem]

When I was a youngster, I liked to fish with live bait, minnows, frogs, and grasshoppers. I did not think of pain but just a means to an end. Growing up, I realized the writhing occurring when impaling these creatures was not a happy thing for them. Thinking about the involuntary recoiling that we do when hurt or the yipping of a cat or dog when you step on a paw, made me reconsider hurting but not necessarily killing other life forms.

Since there is an order and balance in nature (which is often screwed up by human activity) I have a live-and-let-live philosophy and usually use a deterrent or relocate an offending creature. If lizards (and in Florida, we have a ton) get into a personal sanctuary find and seal points of entry. In suburban areas, possums, raccoons, mice/rats, squirrel, and even deer and bear occasionally pass through but if they stay then there is a reason and it might be related to you.

Some do not respect life either through willfulness or ignorance as shown by the way pets or animals under their "care" are often uncaringly treated or killed due to unfounded fears.

So I think pain and suffering are real in living creatures and if they must be dispacted because they are a threat or for food it should be at least quick. I remember scolding a nephew who wanted to go out and shoot some turtles in lakes nearby. Killing because you don't like something or who cares because there are so many should not be considered acceptable human behavior.

“Any society which does not insist upon respect for all life must necessarily decay.”

— Albert Einstein

 

[BillTre]

So basically, instead of getting rid of the pathogen that causes the disease, you get rid of the life form that can live with the pathogen without any problem.

Malaria, one of the several diseases transmitted by the Anopheles mosquito kills more than 1/2 a million people EACH YEAR!
The Anopheles mosquito is invasive in the western hemisphere, thus not a natural part of that "natural environment".

It would be interesting to hear what you think would be a more effective way to deal with this kind of thing.
Unless you don't consider more than 1/2 a million dead people a year of no importance. This is only considering one of several deadly diseases this mosquito transmits.

Kind of like "Let's kill all people who have COVID and don't have symptoms to protect those who could suffer or die from it."

This is one of the stupidest comparisons I have ever heard.

• You would end up with more dead people using your proposed method.
• Killing people and insects are vastly different things.

Try coming up with a reasonable alternative approach,
or admit the low worth you have of human life in comparison with mosquitos.

 

[berkeman]

Thread paused for Moderation...

 

[berkeman]

After a Mentor discussion, the thread is reopened provisionally.

The OP's scenario is unfortunately pretty cruel, with traps that take days for the pests to die. As a hunter, I will always try to make any animal kill as quick and painless as possible, and for me that extends to killing pests. There are pest traps (like mousetraps) that perform quick kills that are much more preferable from my perspective.

 

[jim mcnamara]

Lets inject some basic biology.
pathogens are organisms that cause illness and death (pathology).
Transmissions:
Vectors transmit pathogens
Transmission of pathogens across species is called zoonosis.
There are more than 20 mammal species that broke out/ or can break out from humans:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_that_can_get_SARS-CoV-2

So, consider: humans are potentially much more dangerous to animals than they are to us in terms of disease transmission.

 

[DaveC426913]

(And here I thought the pause for moderation had to do with the nasty insulting turn it looked like it was taking...)