Uh I need a runway, really let me explain

[rhody]

http://tinypic.com/a/2im4z/3"

If you have not been bitten with a life long love of two wheel rapid transit systems then this thread is not for you...

Some additions/replacements to the "Work in Progress..."

The top two left images, thrust/hp/torque, the top two right images are of a stock bike, all the rest, work in progress that includes:

• Ohlins Front/rear shocks (fronts still on order)
• PUIG windscreen
• Sato Rearsets and racing hooks
• Yoshimura fender eliminator, front fork spools, case savers
• Racing Products case covers, stator/clutch, swingarm spools
• Heli bars
• Pazzo Racing levers
• Custom powder coat, front/rear wheels, black on red
• Custom powder coat, rear swingarm
• Custom paint, gastank to match metalic grey on rest of the bike

http://www.bmwmoa.org/bike/bike_reviews_news/s1000rr_review_state_of_the_art"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6gYTCdGdDE&feature=related"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q68JryF8U3U"

Nate Kern on: Lean Angle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKURNzl7cSY&feature=related"

The rest of the components won't be installed until after the beginning of December.

Plan a few track days next year along with some advanced track training.

A goal is to ship this bike to the http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...w9nc0Xgw&sig2=O6Kz4DteIITZHlpaZeozKQ&cad=rja" in June some year in the future, and to take a spirited course lap during race week, on Mad Sunday.

The reason I need a runway, preferably a privately owned one is obvious. I am serious, after break-in period, 600 miles, the dealer sets the maximum revs to over 14K.
Too many customers were doing damage to the engine, this is BMW's fix for it.
I am also interested in people who own their own secondary twisty roads in remote areas, for obvious reasons within a 250 mile radius of RI, where I live.

Rhody...

P.S. The "bug eye" above does not begin to express what +.8 and -.8 G's feel like when full power or braking is applied (in a safe environment of course).

The technical details outlined in the: "A Review" link are quite impressive, the bike was a 5 year commitment by BMW, and it shows.
Over 600,000 real world miles put on before release, and 350,000 of those were at race tracks around the globe. I am told that more than 50 of BMW's best made this happen, and from the result, I would guess it to be accurate.

Have a look at this link as well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8V-mAP31EPs&feature=BF&list=QL&index=1"
You can see him pick up the pace about 10% in some sections of the track, especially the front straight, about 170+ and much much harder on the brakes, the bike starts to squirm before the right-hander. Interesting contrast, practice versus race...

 

[turbo]

Wow! Nice-looking machine. I am older than you and missed the crotch-rocket craze (although my Yamaha 350 would eat up much larger machines). I'd actually like to have a cafe-tweaked version of the RD350 to play with from time to time. I wheeled over backwards only twice in almost 40 years of riding. Both times were on that 2-stroke. That rig was twitchier than a dirt-bike when it was tuned properly.

 

[rhody]

Wow! Nice-looking machine. I am older than you and missed the crotch-rocket craze (although my Yamaha 350 would eat up much larger machines). I'd actually like to have a cafe-tweaked version of the RD350 to play with from time to time. I wheeled over backwards only twice in almost 40 years of riding. Both times were on that 2-stroke. That rig was twitchier than a dirt-bike when it was tuned properly.

Turbo,

There is a new TV Show: Cafe Racers, a couple of guys take old bikes, Nortons, Yamaha 400's, etc... and restore them and give them a modern flair, you should try to check out the show if it is on your selection of TV choices. Very very cool. BTW, I am in contact with Dave Moss, the guy who in the "Setup" about a collaboration, will see how things develop.

If you carefully examine the first link on the review of the bike, the two solid state gyros in the bike, with traction control set to ON, pretty much prevent end over wheelies, the DTC let's the front wheel float 12 to 16 inches off the ground for a second or two then the ECU reduces the power a bit and wheelie over, you can see evidence of that in the: "smooth rider" link. If you are very very skilled you can turn off the traction control and the anti lock brakes and rely on your nerve and skill, however. BMW engineers pulled a rabbit out of the hat with this one, the pistons only move .5 inches, but have a huge area, the lightest valve train of any sport bike ever, and the smoothed the HP peak to around 11,500 rpm, right after the torque peak at about 10K rpm. This makes for lots of control, whereas some manufacturers, Honda, Yamaha, etc, have lumps where horse power and torque are delivered too fast and then drop off, resulting in a chassis that does not stay even and planted while cornering or exiting. BMW listening to what the market was asking for and in every category beat their closest competition by 15 or more percent. The second solid state gyro is a "backup" for the first. Enough rambling. Hope you enjoy the Cafe Racers bike build show.

Rhody...

 

[Proton Soup]

so you chose top-end speed over quickness?

 

[rhody]

so you chose top-end speed over quickness?

Proton,

No, maybe the context of my thread made it appear that way though, let me explain. I currently have an 06 Yamaha FJR 1300 with ABS. Sport Touring bike, and I have fun in the mountains on twisty roads, but at 600 plus pounds, she doesn't change direction or handle, or stick to the road in the league of the BMW.

I have the most fun in 2nd through 3rd gears on twisty back roads. The BMW will change direction and believe it on not because of the soft mid-range behave itself in a similar fashion, as long as you keep it out the upper rpm band, above 10K. If you watched the "smooth rider" link you will see that the BMW transitions directions (side to side) with ease and not at a blistering pace.

The BMW addresses these shortcomings and then some. I don't want to compromise my health or safety doing so either, which the ABS and Dynamic Traction Control (DTC) addresses. There is ahttp://www.superbikeschool.com/machinery/" on the West Coast run by legend, Keith Code. He has a fleet on BMW's, 24 or more in fact , and this is the first time in years that any student has not crashed a bike during the school, and at an elevated track pace. That says something significant. The bikes are becoming "rider proof" in a way, which I have a problem with. Your skill and sensitivity to what is happening is equally if not more important. I hope this clears things up.

Rhody...

 

[rhody]

One important add-on I apparently forgot:

Taylor Racing Exhaust, with carbon fiber cover, 15 lbs lighter than stock, claimed 6 more HP in mid-range, (like the bike really needs it). What sold it for me was the
weight, look (no exhaust apparent, GP Style) and mid-range, see pics in first post.

For those interested:

The development of the bike by BMW:

• http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jM5e65VwGxc"
• http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eN7rCIiUR3M&feature=related"
• http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBPmCXAO3sg&feature=related"

If you are a gear head, you will like these...

Rhody...

 

[turbo]

Nice videos! A 600-weight bike that sports 1000-power, hopped up and lightened...? Pretty nice. Toss that baby through some turns, then snap the throttle and hang a wheelie heading into the straights? Perfect.

EDIT: 403 pounds! With nearly 200 hp. Wow!

 

[nismaratwork]

I am WAAAAAAY out of my depth, but having done some reading, this machine sounds pretty interesting to me. I hope you find that test-track so we can all get pics and stories.

 

[gmax137]

If you really are looking for a runway, check out ECTA - east coast timing assn. They do meets at Maxton (near fayetteville NC). I think there's also a group that runs at an old airbase in Maine somewhere. Probably could find that described on the ECTA site.

And if you've never been to Bonneville you're missing something. Check out the "BUB meet" for bikes only; it gets bigger every year.

 

[rhody]

If you really are looking for a runway, check out ECTA - east coast timing assn. They do meets at Maxton (near fayetteville NC). I think there's also a group that runs at an old airbase in Maine somewhere. Probably could find that described on the ECTA site.

And if you've never been to Bonneville you're missing something. Check out the "BUB meet" for bikes only; it gets bigger every year.

gmax137,

Thanks I will take your advice, especially about the airbase in Maine, Bonneville scares me though, salt = long slow slide to: injury/death !

Rhody...

 

[turbo]

I don't think you'd get much out of Maine's Winterport drag way (old runway) since it's only 1/8 mile. You'd be in 2nd gear (maybe) going through the traps.

 

[gmax137]

I don't think you'd get much out of Maine's Winterport drag way (old runway) since it's only 1/8 mile. You'd be in 2nd gear (maybe) going through the traps.

I was thinking of Loring AFB. Check them out at
http://lta-lsr.com/


from the LTA site:
"The LTA race track is currently the longest asphalt LSR surface available in the world today. The picture at left is quite deceiving due to the fact that it is an incredible 2 1/2 miles long!"

It is a long drive from anywhere (it's north of Presque Isle, ME), but a lot closer to Rogue Island than Bonneville. I have never been there for the speed trials, but it looks cool on their website.

 

[turbo]

Thanks. I didn't know that old SAC base had been re-purposed.

And that is a LONG way from here (central Maine).

 

[nismaratwork]

I would LOVE to drive on a closed 2.5mi track (in my case, in a car)... that would be an absolute blast for a little while.

 

[rhody]

I would LOVE to drive on a closed 2.5mi track (in my case, in a car)... that would be an absolute blast for a little while.

nismara,

Trust me when I say this, there is NO comparision to be at near race pace on a track in a car versus a fast bike, none, nada, zippo... in my biased opinion, of course.

The sensations from the bike, the wind, the positive G's during acceleration, the negative ones under hard braking (200+ lbs on your arms during max braking, a good work out), the lateral G's under cornering, the engine noise, the low height relative to the road, the tire howl (that always gets my attention), the sliding (try not to do that, but it sometimes happens) makes you feel in a sense, unworldly, surreal in a way.

gmax37,

I was thinking of Loring AFB. Check them out at
http://lta-lsr.com/

I will check it out, thanks... What I really really want though, is to take certain twisty parts of North West New Mexico, or Arizona on the way to Prescott or route #243 to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSMLGhK6ynQ&feature=related" in California from Hemet. These are superb examples of beautiful desolate country, places to ride at an elevated pace, semi-safely. The video link I included is the west side (RT 243) on descent to RT10, leading to Palm Springs, a road I have traveled by car and bike many times. I prefer the bike of course.

Rhody...

P.S. That video brought back lots of good memories, wind storms, sunsets... very cool... riding a 1980 Honda CB900F with franken-bike suspension.

 

[gmax137]

... What I really really want though, ...

Well, you're the one that asked for a runway

AZ 89 from Wickenburg to Prescott, and then on to Jerome - that is a beautiful ride...

 

[rhody]

Well, you're the one that asked for a runway

AZ 89 from Wickenburg to Prescott, and then on to Jerome - that is a beautiful ride...

gmax137,

My parent's lived in Prescott and in Wickenburg in the 80's and I did that route I believe at least once, by car, though. You are right, I remember parts of it were gorgeous. A runway would be nice, for familiarization with high speed handling/braking/downshifting. You can't practice high speed stuff safely or legally anywhere else. However, I have the most fun like I said earlier, on twisty roads with some straight sections. The advanced track training would be a plus, and maybe a rack day or two will allow me (in as safe a way as possible) to have fun with say 90% of what the bike is capable of. The Mr. Hyde part of me that every once in a while wants front and center, thus the need for track days and mixing it up with others, while the Dr Jekyll side says the risk is not worth the reward (crashing or worse) and that part keeps me from straying too far.

Rhody...

 

[nismaratwork]

gmax137,

My parent's lived in Prescott and in Wickenburg in the 80's and I did that route I believe at least once, by car, though. You are right, I remember parts of it were gorgeous. A runway would be nice, for familiarization with high speed handling/braking/downshifting. You can't practice high speed stuff safely or legally anywhere else. However, I have the most fun like I said earlier, on twisty roads with some straight sections. The advanced track training would be a plus, and maybe a rack day or two will allow me (in as safe a way as possible) to have fun with say 90% of what the bike is capable of. The Mr. Hyde part of me that every once in a while wants front and center, thus the need for track days and mixing it up with others, while the Dr Jekyll side says the risk is not worth the reward (crashing or worse) and that part keeps me from straying too far.

Rhody...

Just remember that if the runway is abandoned, especially in the northeast, then it may have more damage on the tarmac than you expect. You'll almost certainly be able to find a clear route, but do yourself a favor and walk it, and mark any divets or cracks near it with chalk.

 

[rhody]

Just remember that if the runway is abandoned, especially in the northeast, then it may have more damage on the tarmac than you expect. You'll almost certainly be able to find a clear route, but do yourself a favor and walk it, and mark any divets or cracks near it with chalk.

nismara,

Thanks for your concern. If that is the case then a Foreign Object Damage (FOD) walk would be called for. I am pretty careful by nature and would make a few test runs to see if there were anything that could cause you to become unglued.

Trying to find some loose ends for the bike, carbon fiber rear fender and fairing/windscreen fastener's to match the red in the wheels, not an easy task.
Then, I have a really good old school custom paint guy, Larry Hook who will add a few subtle touches to it, and it will be done.

Front forks should not arrive till mid late December, so no ride reports/impressions till then. BTW, with this thing being so special I am considering LowJack for it. It is not the fact that it were stolen that would bother me as much as all the time and effort it took to get it this way, sort of like losing your iTouch with 500 hours worth of time not to mention money into it, and no backup or way to easily recreate it.

Rhody...

 

[rhody]

Alright, this thread has been sort of active so I know there are some female lurkers following.

The question, do any of you ride with your significant others, hubbies ?

Ride cruisers, dirt, or a sport bike like the one I am getting ? Or race even as a hobby for that matter ?

Some examples of women who ride...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DMz_8W53TI"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_sgXuiLlzg&feature=related"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKCguT--JOg&feature=fvw" Livia Lancelot FIM WMX, Leslie Porterfield FIM Speed, Laia Sainz FIM Women's Trial

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuZYQesbWOs" from about 1:30 on what she races, interesting commentary...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dm4KnrtPKWw&feature=related" Her bike sustained an "Owie", low speed crash and Dave shows her how to straighten and align her forks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VO0kz_1cyzg&feature=player_embedded#!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqpVtJQxFSc&feature=related" comment, she is smooth on the track toward the end of the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nsxm-UUoLDk&feature=related" This isn't about women riders, but the high speed slow motion shots are superb...

Enjoy...

Rhody...

BTW. Happy Thanksgiving to all PF'ers and Mentors.

 

[rhody]

I was trying to find this for post #1, better late than never.

This first video is actually quite funny:

S1000RR VS. GSXR1000

At time:

00:10
01:55

and...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2eWdGSaxUw&feature=related"... can you say... SFB... ?!

Rhody...

Edit: Another creative genius: Check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5_YfC_5i7s&feature=related"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovLpMzMSj9w&feature=fvw"

Too bad these mental midgets have probably never heard of trace route of their IP's addresses, the cat and mouse game only lasts for so long.

 

[nismaratwork]

I was trying to find this for post #1, better late than never.

This first video is actually quite funny:

S1000RR VS. GSXR1000

At time:

00:10
01:55

and...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2eWdGSaxUw&feature=related"... can you say... SFB... ?!

Rhody...

Cool, definitely... then I watched the close call... I'm staying on four wheels or more and you BIcycle and motorized BIcycle riders are mad... MAD I SAAAAAY! Get a nice safe ATV which we know never hurts anyone... right?

Anyway, thanks for the links, kidding aside those were a lot of fun.

 

[rhody]

Here are two examples of very good rider's one, Nate Kern whose links appear above, and a second, a younger stunt rider, Chris "Teach" McNeil who just so happens to be "smooth as glass" on the track, his reaction times on the throttle, brake and distance judgement are quicker than Kern's as well, at least IMHO.

Watch both video's carefully, and see if you agree or disagree.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q68JryF8U3U"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jo5keCn0Y88&feature=related"

My observations:

McNeil: 2:19 and on, more precise throttle control through corners
McNeil: 3:23 later harder braking into high to low speed corners, you can hear the ABS kick in and see the bike squirm, no big deal though he enters the corner a bit late and soldiers on.
McNeil: 4:01 faster downshift front brake reaction right hand, watch Kern's in comparision, it is subtle but if you pay attention McNeils movement is more exact and compact. Little details like this win or lose races.
McNeil: 5:45 if you compare corner entry to his first lap, he is much later on the brakes and earlier on the throttle out of the corner, a sign of how rapidly his brain is adapting to the track.

Overall I would say McNeil's skill set is just a bit higher than Kern's.

Note: Kern's has a full Ohlin's suspension setup on his bike and I believe McNeil's was standard BMW suspension, which may or may not be significant in this case.

Kern's downshift front brake movement at: 1:18 versus, McNiel's at 4:01.

Have fun with looking for fine details in the video's, both guys are excellent riders. I think the younger McNeil's skill set is just enough higher that on the same track, same bike, same setup, one on one match-up, that McNeil's would have a slight edge, over Kern.

That is of course unless Kern was very pissed off or extremely motivated to kick the younger rider McNeil's butt, then he may push just a wee bit harder to beat him, and risk crashing. At the end of the day, mental toughness, concentration and consistency from lap to lap play a huge role in placing on the podium.

Rhody...

 

[Jasongreat]

gmax137,

My parent's lived in Prescott and in Wickenburg in the 80's and I did that route I believe at least once, by car, though. You are right, I remember parts of it were gorgeous. A runway would be nice, for familiarization with high speed handling/braking/downshifting. You can't practice high speed stuff safely or legally anywhere else. However, I have the most fun like I said earlier, on twisty roads with some straight sections. The advanced track training would be a plus, and maybe a rack day or two will allow me (in as safe a way as possible) to have fun with say 90% of what the bike is capable of. The Mr. Hyde part of me that every once in a while wants front and center, thus the need for track days and mixing it up with others, while the Dr Jekyll side says the risk is not worth the reward (crashing or worse) and that part keeps me from straying too far.

Rhody...

Since it sounds like your thinking about coming west, why not try the http://www.utah.com/playgrounds/bonneville_salt.htm" which is the longest road course in north america, they have open course days but I don't know if those are just for cars or if bikes are allowed. After you have gotten your top speed runs out of the way, there are plenty of twisting scenic drives here.

 

[rhody]

Since it sounds like your thinking about coming west, why not try the http://www.utah.com/playgrounds/bonneville_salt.htm" which is the longest road course in north america, they have open course days but I don't know if those are just for cars or if bikes are allowed. After you have gotten your top speed runs out of the way, there are plenty of twisting scenic drives here.

Jason,

I don't know if you watched my earlier post link on Leslie Porter field, fastest woman on a motorcycle link , reproduced http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_sgXuiLlzg&feature=related", but she bit it big time the first year she was at Bonneville, nasty broken collar bone and cracked ribs (I have had these from skiing incidents, they are no fun). I think it would be great to go watch and spectate and mingle, but not ride on the salt.

I will keep Miller Motor Sports Park in mind if my travels take me there in the future, thanks for the tip, and insight into twisty roads nearby.

Rhody...

 

[turbo]

Yep, Rhody. If I want to go fast, I want to go fast on asphalt, where my tires have a fair chance of maintaining traction. There is a reason that people use Bonneville - it is very flat. That's it.

 

[rhody]

Yep, Rhody. If I want to go fast, I want to go fast on asphalt, where my tires have a fair chance of maintaining traction. There is a reason that people use Bonneville - it is very flat. That's it.

Turbo,

I am glad you share my view, hehe. One less variable to have to deal with.

Rhody...

 

[turbo]

Turbo,

I am glad you share my view, hehe. One less variable to have to deal with.

Rhody...

Asphalt gets tacky when it gets hot, so your tires' contact patches have maximum traction. I don't think salt does that.

Got a jet-powered or rocket-powered car that you want to get up to maximum speed? Bonneville is great for that. Got a twitchy bike with a high power:weight ratio? Salt is not so good.

 

[rhody]

Asphalt gets tacky when it gets hot, so your tires' contact patches have maximum traction. I don't think salt does that.

Got a jet-powered or rocket-powered car that you want to get up to maximum speed? Bonneville is great for that. Got a twitchy bike with a high power:weight ratio? Salt is not so good.

Turbo,

Interesting observation, maybe I have watched too many high speed slow motion tank slapper video's at the Flats over the years. I believe the difference between a fast successful run and one that ends in disaster lies partially on luck, the wind, the tenuous (at best) conditions of the salt, and the skill of the rider. If all the stars align you may get a record or at least a safe run out of it.

Funny too, I was coming home on the FJR the other day, taking a corner I had many times and at the last second noticed a dark grey patch and sheen on the road, can you say oily tar. I started to slide, backed off a hair on the throttle and continued on my way. Just goes to show you should never take anything for granted, even a road that you know very well. Enough said, let's move on to other interesting aspects of track days.

Rhody...

 

[rhody]

Evo,

I saw this picture. The "Evo" stood out and I thought of you.

Please, no dead fish beatings, let's save them for the newbee's.

Rhody...

 

[turbo]

Turbo,

Interesting observation, maybe I have watched too many high speed slow motion tank slapper video's at the Flats over the years. I believe the difference between a fast successful run and one that ends in disaster lies partially on luck, the wind, the tenuous (at best) conditions of the salt, and the skill of the rider. If all the stars align you may get a record or at least a safe run out of it.

The only one you have control over is the one I bolded. It can be very hard to tamp down instinct and act properly when things get hairy. Years back, I was traveling at a bit over the speed limit on Rte 201, and a trooper came up behind me at a high rate of speed. I pulled into the breakdown lane to get out of his way and was braking as I crossed the paint - and the paint was *just* slippery enough to let the back wheel lock up at ~60 mph. OK, feather the front brake to scrub speed until the fishtailing subsides, get down to a safe speed and release the rear brake. A novice would have panicked at the lock-up and let off the rear brake, only to end up as a red smudge on the pavement.

 

[rhody]

Turbo,

Is there a subliminal message in your last post, leaving out the "s" in "skill", or simply a typo ? kill of the rider

Rhody...

P.S. I am willing to bet Evo will NOT take the bait and respond, what do you think ?

 

[turbo]

Just an oversight in the bolding. Funny, anyway.

 

[rhody]

nismara,

Just found this while trolling a BMW Forum and immediately thought of you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwB2ckjWdnE&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL"

Note: at 1:35 the nice dark line the BMW rider leaves off the left hand corner, and at 4:40 how perilously close the Porsche comes to the camera man off the corner, he doesn't flinch though. Obviously the BMW has traction control and ABS turned off because the rider is sliding/wheelie-ing the thing every which way.

Edit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfPM77TsGaA&feature=fvw"

This is a classic, Stoner beat Rossi in qualifying by 1.5 seconds, an eternity on the tight and quirky Laguna Seca, yet Rossi had the nerve, will and riding skill to un-hinge Stoner. Passing on the outside (the Yamaha M1 does corner better than the Ducati). All in all one of the more memorable races I can remember in the last decade.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmVFkXMkOgs&feature=channel"

Can you say ouch, at 00:45 the rider can't see the crashed bike because of the dust cloud and... well you know what happens next.

Enjoy...

Rhody...

 

[nismaratwork]

nismara,

Just found this while trolling a BMW Forum and immediately thought of you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwB2ckjWdnE&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL"

Note: at 1:35 the nice dark line the BMW rider leaves off the left hand corner, and at 4:40 how perilously close the Porsche comes to the camera man off the corner, he doesn't flinch though. Obviously the BMW has traction control and ABS turned off because the rider is sliding/wheelie-ing the thing every which way.

Edit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfPM77TsGaA&feature=fvw"

This is a classic, Stoner beat Rossi in qualifying by 1.5 seconds, an eternity on the tight and quirky Laguna Seca, yet Rossi had the nerve, will and riding skill to un-hinge Stoner. Passing on the outside (the Yamaha M1 does corner better than the Ducati). All in all one of the more memorable races I can remember in the last decade.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmVFkXMkOgs&feature=channel"

Can you say ouch, at 00:45 the rider can't see the crashed bike because of the dust cloud and... well you know what happens next.

Enjoy...

Rhody...

HOLY... wow, that's amazing. I'm soooo never riding a cycle, but it's amazing to watch! Thanks rhody.