Uh I need a runway, really let me explain

  • Thread starter rhody
  • Start date
  • Tags
    Explain
In summary: BMW has the "feel" nailed down. In summary, the bike is a work in progress that includes Ohlins shocks, a PUIG windscreen, Satos rear sets and racing hooks, Yoshimura fender eliminator, Racing Products case covers, stator/clutch, swingarm spools, Heli bars, Pazzo Racing levers, custom paint, front/rear wheels, black on red, and custom paint, rear swingarm.
  • #421
I had a first yesterday, let's set the stage first. The day before I had the 600cc Kawasaki out, practicing being smooth, brakes, shift, gas, you get the idea. Trying to get used to the foot peg position, lower handlebars, control feel. More than that trying to measure feedback from inputs to said controls. It was fun, and a bit chilly. Returned home relaxed.

Fast forward to yesterday, was warming the monster up, had the heated gloves in preheat, then as I was slipping them on, a sudden rush, like the one you get when you twist the throttle gently in 2nd gear accelerating smoothly but quickly from 50 - 100 in about 3 seconds.

I have always approached each thing I do with either bike, a step at a time, slowly, without hurrying things. With the mental image I just described in the second paragraph I headed out to the bike shop about fifteen miles away, some super slab, in fine but chilly weather, no wind, light traffic. I was feeling relaxed and focused, so I downshifted from 3rd to second gear at about 65 mph and rolled the throttle (no traffic around) and was rewarded with a nice three second wheelie, front wheel dead straight about 6 - 12 inches off the pavement, dead, smooth, similar to this one by Nate Kern, (00:11 - 00:14) at about 2000 rpm less than his. Very nice. Next up is the same scenario, but I will hook 3rd gear and see if I can ride it another for another few seconds under acceleration. Like I said, one step at a time.

Rhody...
 
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #422
Ok Turbo, I know you love the sound of that thunderous Vtwin modded Harley motor, but you have to admit, this is a pretty decent recording (except for buzzing at beginning, I am working on that),
you get a decent idea of the wind buffeting. The recorder was taped to the top of the gas tank.

I plan to record one similar to this but will do it with the front wheel floating a bit off the ground in 1st and 2nd gear, nice smooth flat deserted road. See if you can tell the difference, however slight, when I post the second one.
There is no clutch shifting the quick shifter does away with that, cuts out the engine for about 10 milliseconds and presto, you are at full power in the next gear.

Rhodster...
 
  • #423
I added the Kawasaki to the mix, added introduction and captions to explain the shenanigans.

"[url "]BMW and Kawi through first three gears[/URL]



Rhody... meep... meep... o:) :devil: :biggrin:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #425
rhody said:
These guys really haul ... Fun watching them.

Oh wow, they really ride to their bikes limits. That's pretty amazing.
 
  • #426
KrisOhn said:
Oh wow, they really ride to their bikes limits. That's pretty amazing.
Past their own limits, it seems. Just my opinion, but some of those riders need rehabilitative training. If you don't know whether you can toss your bike into a curve at 150mph and not end up off the track, that is the sign of a newby. Real riders will constantly evaluate road-condition, tire-condition, etc, and adjust if they are going to push limits.
 
  • #427
I am getting to know the beast on an intimate level if that is possible. Last ride on her in cold temps, 30's Fahrenheit, I noticed what felt like rear end slip and front end push. I instinctively knew what it was, and a test with cold tires and a gauge proved it, the rear tire was down 4 psi from recommended pressure and the front 2 psi. I will test it again this weekend with the proper pressure. You can really feel the difference with that little difference pressure in the tires, they are that sensitive on a sport bike.

Rhody... :!)
 
  • #428
Quick shifting and power management, throttle, clutch control go hand in hand so, have a look at BradMan's good instruction
on power-up and clutched wheelies. Good instruction, advice and IMHO.



Rhody...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #429
rhody said:
Quick shifting and power management, throttle, clutch control go hand in hand so, have a look at BradMan's good instruction
on power-up and clutched wheelies. Good instruction, advice and IMHO.
Rhody...

Even if I buy a sport bike in the future, I don't think I will ever attempt a wheelie on it. I'm content with having my dirtbike do stuff like that for me.
 
  • #430
:frown: First MAJOR problem with the beast, rolled to a stop light in 3rd gear, clutch in, tapped to go to first, nothing, the gear dogs not engaging, to make a long story short, after adjusting the chain and careful examination of the shift linkage, nothing is out of alignment, loose, etc... Adjusted the clutch to make sure it was fully disengaged, same result, intermittent downshifting, 4th - 2nd gear, came out of the blue as well, no signs, missed shifts, nothing. The other bike is in the shop as well, and when that one is done this one goes in. Good thing I can live with 3rd - 6th gears, the bike takes off effortlessly in 3rd. Amazing really. I am going to post this on the BMW Forum to see if any others have had this problem.

Rhody...
 
Last edited:
  • #431
The problem turned out to be a round knuckle joint at the top of the Sato Rearset was binding, causing the problem, I could see the knuckle cocked a bit askew and suspected it, turns out it was frozen, once it was taken apart and lubed no problem. Something as small as that binding at the wrong moment can mean the difference between making a corner and too much corner speed which is very bad. If you can't downshift, expecting the engine braking to help you slow down, it screws up the mental maps in your head, between front and rear brake and blipping the throttle and the engine braking that happens, all three factors contribute to slowing smoothly, the way you have come to expect, when something goes wrong and you can't down shift one or more gears to make a corner, you enter too hot and that can cause a low side crash or running wide into whatever is on the outside of the corner. I am glad the problem is fixed and will pay attention and lube the knuckle a couple times a year.

Rhody... :smile:
 
  • #432
Nice video... Best of 2011: Slow Motion

Like the lookback at 3:42...



Rhody... :biggrin:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #433
Track day approaches in about 2 months, June 20th, and I have started training my visual focus and concentration using the Insight Program I used last year, first session was a little rusty, and I remember at what level I achieved last season, so I hope to do that or better this time. I am keeping a log of my feelings with each session as well. The ZX6 is way easier to ride, but not as comfy in the saddle. The power is manageable as well, no worries about power wheelies. I have practiced high speed acceleration and braking so nothing should be new there either. I hope to have a safe fast track day, Just bought an old leather one piece suit from Vanson Leathers and it needs a patch over the butt of all places. It is pretty ugly, but functional and IMHO safer than many other brands out there, the leather is thicker, the armor better, even though a few at the bike shop beg to differ.

Rhody... :cool:
 
  • #434
Sad news from BMW, it seems some 1400 bikes from Nov 2011 - Feb 2012, had their connecting rods improperly torqued during automated assembly and it took three months to nail it down, all new 2012 sales have been suspended until they notify owners for a fix. Sounds like a quality control issue. See link http://www.s1000rrforum.com/forum/bmw-s1000rr-general-discussion/12500-2012-recall-3.html#post127135 and http://www.s1000rrforum.com/forum/bmw-s1000rr-general-discussion/12500-2012-recall-4.html#post127151. The mechanic at my shop said it could be defective con rod bolts, when torqued to their lower and upper con rod assemblies they are designed to stretch and then hold at a certain amount of foot pound pressure. If the bolts break, that means catastrophic engine failure. If the bolt torque was loose the two assemblies could fly apart, and same result. If the engine grenades at high rpm, the debris and oil could mean that first you are skewered like a piece of chicken, then turned into a rag doll as you go down in the oil from the split engine. Both thoughts are frightening.

Here is a quote from another http://www.s1000rrforum.com/forum/bmw-s1000rr-general-discussion/12500-2012-recall-7.html#post127223:
My source has confirmed that the recall is pertaining to conrod bolt being over torqued on cylinder nb 1. Result is that a vibration is generated over 9000 rpm (which means it affects bikes after the rev limiter is removed) and eventually the con rod cap will break lose and destroy the crank casing.

They are currently evaluating which series are affected.

On a personal note: it is possible that could be what happened at Motorland on Sunday April 8th when what seems to be 1 of BMW demo S1000RR (it was also a BMW track day) motor exploded in the middle of the pit straight spilling oil on the braking trajectory, in turn leading to the crash of several riders before the track organisation could red flag the session.
and this http://www.s1000rrforum.com/forum/bmw-s1000rr-general-discussion/12500-2012-recall-10.html#post127328made the most common sense to me. Let's see how this plays itself out in the coming weeks. I may do an early track day at NJMP in New Jersey in early May. The thought of a S1000 grenading itself beside me is not something I care to think about or face. The track day schools will probably screen and refund suspect bikes in the Nov 2011 - Feb 2012 manufacture time frame, it is the responsible thing to do. If they allow these bikes on the track and someone is killed that would be very bad indeed.

Rhody... :eek:
 
  • #435
Very dangerous situation until all owners get a recall, full teardown, and rebuild. I surely wouldn't want one of those engines to self-destruct in side-by-side racing.
 
  • #436
turbo said:
Very dangerous situation until all owners get a recall, full teardown, and rebuild. I surely wouldn't want one of those engines to self-destruct in side-by-side racing.
Nope !

Rhody...
 
  • #437
Perhaps even worse would be trying to overtake one of those oil-filled grenades, and trying to navigate through that mess after it pukes all over the track. Following racers could become hamburg in seconds.
 
  • #438
turbo said:
Perhaps even worse would be trying to overtake one of those oil-filled grenades, and trying to navigate through that mess after it pukes all over the track. Following racers could become hamburg in seconds.

Kind of like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFxRwNMeGwg

Edit: Oh wow, there are a couple of these:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_08p-414uGY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivpjDlREV-8
 
Last edited:
  • #439
Kris,

I had seen the first two before, the third one last year had the most horrendous crash, because of the dust, it is hard to tell but the first rider to go down in the oil was flipping in a semi crouch position over 130 mph, it looked awful. When you hit oil at that speed nothing can be done.

I have a two words about today's ride home from a walk on a walking trial, took the beast, ACK, bugs...

The sun was going down, in my eyes and I was dodging bugs like in a Star Wars movie, I nailed two big bumble bees and a untold torrent of smaller bugs.
I couldn't even crack my visor. That's what you get when the temps are suddenly 15 degrees warmer than the day before, bug hatch up the wazoo. Tomorrow is going to be 20 degrees cooler, so maybe some of the young vulnerable ones will DIE.

Rhody...
 
Last edited:
  • #440
I just sat on the new Ducati Panigale at the shop today, very comfy, wide bars, decent leg position, and not extra strain on wrists, but it is made for someone who has arms two inches longer than mine because to hug the tank with my knees isn't possible without sliding two inches back and putting more weight on wrists. In the end it doesn't matter because the only time you would be tucked in is when going berzerko wide open throttle anyway. The bike looks small and weighs only 422lbs with a full tank, mine weighs a hefty 20 pounds more. I was told 5 years of effort went into the bike and it shows.

http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/2030/panigalev.jpg

Rhody...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #441
rhody said:
I just sat on the new Ducati Panigale at the shop today, very comfy, wide bars, decent leg position, and not extra strain on wrists, but it is made for someone who has arms two inches longer than mine because to hug the tank with my knees isn't possible without sliding two inches back and putting more weight on wrists. In the end it doesn't matter because the only time you would be tucked in is when going berzerko wide open throttle anyway. The bike looks small and weighs only 422lbs with a full tank, mine weighs a hefty 20 pounds more. I was told 5 years of effort went into the bike and it shows.

http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/2030/panigalev.jpg

Rhody...
What a monster!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #442
Took the BMW out on Saturday, nice crisp, high 40's day, making a 90% turn I have made at least a hundred times before I leaned into the corner, nothing on the road that would cause a slide, and low and behold a nice 20 mph slide with the rear end. No drama, just continued on my way, told the guys at the shop about it and it didn't hit me until after I was sitting quietly after my ride. The rear tire only has about 200 miles on it, the chicken strips, which means the last inch or so have still got the oil on it from the factory, I got into that area during me lean. The only way to rough up the area is to drive on the edge, kind of a catch 22 if you get my drift. I took some rough sandpaper to that edge area, see the top picture before and the bottom after. Would the slide happened on a 70 F day ? Probably not, but the cold weather can be tricky, better to be safe than sorry.

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/2321/tirebefore.jpg

http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/6615/tireafter.jpg

Rhody...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #443
Cleaned the BMW's wheels cleaner that when they came back from powder coat when new. The last part was done with Qtips and a towel in the nooks and crannies, took two hours. I know I must be crazy, but I enjoy it. Sometimes I just like to take a few pictures and sit back and enjoy the looks of them.

I took the little Kawi out to practice late braking, rapid starts, will do that more intensely as track day approaches and get the bike more and more out of shape to recovery on the brakes so I will be ready for any contingency. You have to practice for emergencies too, as crazy as it sounds, but it pays off because in the end muscle memory comes into play automatically, and that is what saves you, not quick thinking, there isn't enough time.

http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/2294/bikessidebyside.jpg

http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/4702/bikessidebysidecloseup.jpg

Rhody...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #444
The coolest thing happened today, I gave a copy of "Closer to the Edge" to a friend at the bike shop, left it on his desk, and someone swiped it before he got it, no problem, I made another copy which he has had for about a month and watched at least ten times. Somehow this must have made an impression on his wife. He came up to me and shook my hand and said, "if it wasn't for you, two wonderful things never would have happened." He said if you hadn't given me that DVD my wife said, "you can go to the Isle of Mann next year", "and you can buy that Ducati you have wanted for so long and take it to trackday's". I was blown away. Made me feel good, apparently his obsession with the DVD did the trick. Funny thing too, I was able to obtain a copy that would play on region 1 DVD players. Apparently the mental midgets who distributed it did not make a region 1 US version available, and not many people in the US have seen it, good thing this guy did and his wife, eh ??

That made my day... Here is the trailer. IMHO, it is the best motorcycle documentary ever made. See it if you can.



and, just for good measure a lap with Guy Martin, with commentary...



and...



Rhody...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #445
I just watched that documentary. It is the best motorcycling documentary I've ever seen, and one of the best documentaries I've ever seen in general. I need to find more shows like this.
 
  • #446
FYI, Track Day tomorrow at Loudon, NH June20th, Wed, they predict temps in the high 90's, low humidity, should be tolerable, but took neck bandana's to soak with water. Weird two day spike in temps. Cross your fingers all goes well. Not been as active lately because of working most days after work, weekends on indoor hydro grow business. That's it. Wish me luck...

Rhody...
 
  • #447
Good luck!
 
  • #448
Good luck rhody! Stay safe!
 
  • #449
fuzzyfelt said:
Good luck!

turbo said:
Good luck rhody! Stay safe!

Thanks, guys...

It was a scorcher, and I was rusty in the morning (when it was fairly cool), but by 3 pm, my last session, I was nailing everything, corner entries, the "Line", and basically had a blast. I got better as the day wore on. The day before, one of the resident expert riders who works at the shop went down (low side) in a turn and twisted his ankle, nice black and blue. He rode with little problems on our track day a day later. They had more people this time, and I moved up to the intermediate group, and learned to trust my tires more when leaned way over in the corners, I got smooth on the throttle and brakes and that made things even better. All in all, a good day.

Rhody... :biggrin:
 
  • #450
Sounds good!
 
  • #451
Hehe... I still don't have the ZX6 back to street worthy condition, so before it rained tonight I took the beast out for a little spin, I must have a track day hangover, but it was so easy to brake really hard and accelerate around bends it was almost frightening, that's what happens when you senses are amped. There is a residual effect that is hard to describe. I can lean with more confidence (learning to trust the tires to their edges) and am comfortable getting the front end light or barely off the ground now it is like a glove. It has taken over a year and 5500 miles to do so on the beast, who still demands the utmost respect. I am just more comfortable with my ability.

I will say this absolutely, all those excursions to from 60 mph to redline in 2nd and 3rd gear hard on the brakes paid tremendous dividends on the track, my brain new what to expect at speed and the muscle memory reacted with the proper control inputs and body positions peeling off into a corner. I can't describe it any other way, other to say that it felt really good. Now, to get the tape off the little ZX6 and back to street riding after I add more air to the tires.

Rhody... out... big smile... :biggrin:
 
  • #452
It's been a while since your last update Rhody, been out this year yet?
 
  • #453
KrisOhn said:
It's been a while since your last update Rhody, been out this year yet?
Plannng a day in June, Loudon, 2 in July NewYorksafety Track and then finsh at Loudon again in Sept. Updgraded the kawi tthis year, tires, exhaust Akro, seat, and lost the baffles and exup down low, should be better, lighter, throttle needs some work as does the quick shifter,if it all beds nicely it should be fun. Thanks for asking May take the BMW to safety track, in fact i may take both bikes, BMW has better suspension but is a handful to ride quick, too much power, whereas after 2nd gear on the Kawi you can pretty much pin it with little drama. Brakes do not have the same feel as the brembo, they feel wooden with lack of feel then hard braking kick in, harder to modulate.

Rhody...
 
  • #454
Awesome! I'm so envious of your track days, it would be so cool to rip around a track, pushing your limits without any of the concerns of doing it on the regular road. If I had a sport bike to start, I would try and find one within reasonable distance from me, but I think that would be pretty far considering I'm in redneck Saskatchewan.

I haven't even been out on the road yet with my bike this year, too cold so far, still only warms up to 10c or so during the day here.
 
  • #455
I just thought I would do a fly by and share a smidgen of what I have been up to almost three years later... hard to believe.
I still have the BMW, but now have added a tricked out 2015 Kawasaki H2. Really sweet, again, a one of a kind. Both bikes are ridden on the track as they were
built for, much more confident in riding skill and pace.

H2 before mods
H2 Stock...

H2 after mods
H2 after TLC...

Palmer MA, Trackday
Palmer MA, Trackday

Rhody...
 
  • Like
Likes berkeman

Similar threads

Automotive Understanding Tire Forces in Bicycle Simulation: Physics and Code Explained
Replies
2
Views
2K

Hot Threads

Recent Insights

Back
Top