Anyone considering a career as a patent attorney?

[tjackson3]

I'm a graduate student in applied math. I've received my MS and am debating on continuing on for my PhD. How much would having the PhD over the MS help me if I were to become a patent lawyer? Also, I'd heard that the patent legal market was the one area that was still doing well in terms of hiring new lawyers, but a previous post you made seemed to disagree with that. Have things changed since that first post?

 

[Ach]

If I was an electrical engineer, how much work experience would be recommended to reliably secure a job as a patent attorney? Would I be able to go law school immediately after getting my degree, or would it be better to get a couple years of experience in actual engineering first?

 

[Ach]

Also, would advanced engineering degrees be significantly helpful?

 

[berned_you]

@Ach - there is no formula. It's nice to have some experience but it's not required. What constitutes "some" is subjective. I went to law school right after obtaining my engineering degree. Advanced engineering degrees don't hurt but aren't a necessity.

I know my response isn't terribly helpful but I can't tell you what to do in this case. Having more experience and more education is "better" but it's not required. At some point you have to do what you want to do. There is no formula for finding a job. Even if you have the perfect resume you may not quickly find a job if you are not personable or if you are not committed to finding a job. Being personable and committed to finding a job could overcome a less "shiny" resume. It all depends on a lot of factors and there are no guarantees for anything in this world.

 

[ds_02]

Hey, I am from India. I have done my B.tech in Electronics and Instrumentation. After working in management for a couple of years I am considering career in IP. The course that I plan on appearing for also provides CASRIP certificate from University of Washington.

Can you tell me what is the relevance of this certificate and how it will be useful if I take US Patent Bar Examination in future?

 

[berned_you]

Hey, I am from India. I have done my B.tech in Electronics and Instrumentation. After working in management for a couple of years I am considering career in IP. The course that I plan on appearing for also provides CASRIP certificate from University of Washington.

Can you tell me what is the relevance of this certificate and how it will be useful if I take US Patent Bar Examination in future?

See the attachment in post #7 of this thread for the requirements to sit for the patent bar.

 

[rxfeliciano]

Hello, first off I want to say thanks a lot for posting all this information. It's hard to get so much information in one place like this. I recently graduated with a BS in Aerospace Engineering with a low GPA. I have 2 questions for you:


1. I know you have mentioned the fact that mechanical engineering majors are attractive to patent firms. What about aerospace engineering majors? At my school mechanical and aero majors were on the same track until our senior years with most of the classes overlapping both majors.

2. Assuming I were to pass the patent bar exam, what are the chances of me getting a job as a patent agent with no experience in my field? Do firms look at your GPA? And if so, how could I overcome this?

Thanks again for your help!

 

[berned_you]

Hello, first off I want to say thanks a lot for posting all this information. It's hard to get so much information in one place like this. I recently graduated with a BS in Aerospace Engineering with a low GPA. I have 2 questions for you:


1. I know you have mentioned the fact that mechanical engineering majors are attractive to patent firms. What about aerospace engineering majors? At my school mechanical and aero majors were on the same track until our senior years with most of the classes overlapping both majors.

2. Assuming I were to pass the patent bar exam, what are the chances of me getting a job as a patent agent with no experience in my field? Do firms look at your GPA? And if so, how could I overcome this?

Thanks again for your help!

1. The best way to get an idea is to check job postings for patent agents. If you see jobs for this background, you know there is good demand. If not, well...it could be difficult to find a job. I agree that you're probably qualified for working on mechanical patents but there is less of a demand for patent agents in the mechanical area because most mechanical patents are not very high tech. Again, look at job postings and get an idea of what firms are looking for and where they need expertise.

2. Having no work experience and a low GPA will be two strikes against you. This can, potentially, be overcome with lots of networking, hard work and maybe a little luck. Most patent agents I meet are super educated and experienced in their tech fileds. As discussed previously, patent agents are most often needed where it's challenging for a patent attorney (who has a basic tech background) to understand the subject matter that's being patented because it's highly advanced and the technology field is advancing at a fast pace. To be a sought-after patent agent candidate, you need to know more about the technology than the attorneys you are working for.

If you really want to work in the patent field, consider applying to be a patent examiner as discussed herein. It's much easier to find a job with the patent office and will, at the very least, provide you with excellent experience to beef up your resume.

 

[Brittney]

Must you pass the patent exam to practice as a IP attorney? Are patents and trademarks the only IP fields that require certification from the USPTO?

 

[berned_you]

Must you pass the patent exam to practice as a IP attorney? Are patents and trademarks the only IP fields that require certification from the USPTO?

Passing the Patent Bar Exam is required to prosecute patents before the USPTO. There is no corresponding requirement for trademarks and copyrights.

 

[chemraj]

Dear friends

I have a question here. Do we only have few dates to take the exams or we can take the exam anytime just like GRE. I know we have to get the clearance from USPTO to register for the exam, so once we get accepted from USPTO are we allowed to book the date for the test at any available date.

Looking forward to here from someone.

 

[berned_you]

Dear friends

I have a question here. Do we only have few dates to take the exams or we can take the exam anytime just like GRE. I know we have to get the clearance from USPTO to register for the exam, so once we get accepted from USPTO are we allowed to book the date for the test at any available date.

Looking forward to here from someone.

Read this http://www.uspto.gov/ip/boards/oed/GRB_March_2012.pdf

 

[Kamala]

Hi,

I am a Biological Science PhD student, but due to some personal reason I won't be able to continue in the PhD program. I will eventually get a masters degree. I have experience (2.5yrs) in patent office in a big biologics company, India and the company trained me in US, EU as well as India patent laws. I also have a post-graduate diploma in patent law from National Law School, India. I want to know my chances of getting into a patent firm with my background. I am planning to write the patent bar exam soon and want to become a patent agent. My question is will a MS degree fetch me a job in a law firm or USPTO?? I know that I love patent work and really want to make a career in the intellectual property field. Your suggestions will help me decide my future goals.

 

[berned_you]

Hi,

I am a Biological Science PhD student, but due to some personal reason I won't be able to continue in the PhD program. I will eventually get a masters degree. I have experience (2.5yrs) in patent office in a big biologics company, India and the company trained me in US, EU as well as India patent laws. I also have a post-graduate diploma in patent law from National Law School, India. I want to know my chances of getting into a patent firm with my background. I am planning to write the patent bar exam soon and want to become a patent agent. My question is will a MS degree fetch me a job in a law firm or USPTO?? I know that I love patent work and really want to make a career in the intellectual property field. Your suggestions will help me decide my future goals.

I think your qualifications are strong. The Patent Office is almost always looking to hire examiners and I think your odds would be good with a firm too as a patent agent. That is not to say a job will be handed to you without much work but I think your chances of making a career in US patent law are rather good. If you want to apply to work at a firm you will need to pass the US Patent Bar examination but if you apply to work at the USPTO you will not and you will earn this qualification through working as an examiner. I note that I would emphasize your foreign patent knowledge and qualifications when applying for jobs at firms. I think that will help set you apart from other candidates.

Hope that helps.

 

[Kamala]

I think your qualifications are strong. The Patent Office is almost always looking to hire examiners and I think your odds would be good with a firm too as a patent agent. That is not to say a job will be handed to you without much work but I think your chances of making a career in US patent law are rather good. If you want to apply to work at a firm you will need to pass the US Patent Bar examination but if you apply to work at the USPTO you will not and you will earn this qualification through working as an examiner. I note that I would emphasize your foreign patent knowledge and qualifications when applying for jobs at firms. I think that will help set you apart from other candidates.

Hope that helps.

Thank You! Is there any study material that is freely available on web apart from MPEP to prepare for the patent bar exam? Do they also test on current patent litigations or case studies??

 

[berned_you]

@Kamala - Not sure about free study aids. You'd have to search and see what you find.

With respect to what's tested, see section IX of this document http://www.uspto.gov/ip/boards/oed/GRB_March_2012.pdf

 

[daisee]

hi @berned_you...thank you for starting this thread. I know I'm over a year late but would like some insight into Patent agent career and eventually IP law.
I have an undergraduate degree in Computer Science and a Masters in Public Health. I'm interested in law school but not sure that I can take the instant pay cut. I'm thinking of taking the patent exam and applying for a patent agent job as a means of learning the industry and earning a decent salary for the first two years then probably moving into full time after. I have solid work experience in the IT industry and hoping that I can leverage this for opportunities in patent law work. Have you seen any interest/demand for those with my background in the patent industry? I've seent the requirements for the exam, and I know that I meet them, but will I be marketable enough?

 

[berned_you]

hi @berned_you...thank you for starting this thread. I know I'm over a year late but would like some insight into Patent agent career and eventually IP law.
I have an undergraduate degree in Computer Science and a Masters in Public Health. I'm interested in law school but not sure that I can take the instant pay cut. I'm thinking of taking the patent exam and applying for a patent agent job as a means of learning the industry and earning a decent salary for the first two years then probably moving into full time after. I have solid work experience in the IT industry and hoping that I can leverage this for opportunities in patent law work. Have you seen any interest/demand for those with my background in the patent industry? I've seent the requirements for the exam, and I know that I meet them, but will I be marketable enough?

The interest and demand can be seen in job postings. As mentioned in previous posts, CompSci isn't as in demand as the engineering sciences but perhaps there are quite a few job openings in Silicon Valley, for example, and the demand is simply localized in various parts of the country. Do some job post searching and see what employers are looking for in the ares in which you would like to work. Hope that helps!

 

[ritaw]

I was recently accepted to a MS in Patent Law Program at the University of Notre Dame. This program is designed to teach students how to draft patent applications, read patents, search for patents, and prepare them to take and pass the patent bar. Does this seem like it would be something beneficial if my goal is to work as a patent agent?

My undergrad degree is Materials Science & Engineering. The only thing I am worried about is if I do this program will I be able to find a job as a patent agent? I'm not sure if MSE is a desired degree that is in demand.

Thank you!

 

[berned_you]

I was recently accepted to a MS in Patent Law Program at the University of Notre Dame. This program is designed to teach students how to draft patent applications, read patents, search for patents, and prepare them to take and pass the patent bar. Does this seem like it would be something beneficial if my goal is to work as a patent agent?

My undergrad degree is Materials Science & Engineering. The only thing I am worried about is if I do this program will I be able to find a job as a patent agent? I'm not sure if MSE is a desired degree that is in demand.

Thank you!

1. Yes it would have its benefits. Employers will focus heavily on your technical background though too. Just knowing about patents is one thing but knowing advanced technology is equally as important. That said, I'd ask yourself if you really want to invest in this patent agent program. To me, it seems to be an unnecessary expense (probably a huge expense). If you want training and experience, simply apply for a job as a patent examiner. I expect you would likely be hired and they will PAY YOU TO TRAIN YOU AND GAIN THE EXPERIENCE YOU DESIRE (not to mention give you government benefits/holidays). As mentioned in prior replies, you don't need any knowledge of patents to be hired as an examiner and they are hiring aggressively. The USPTO will put you through a thorough training program. Is working as a patent examiner for 2-3 years more valuable than a patent agent degree in an employers eyes? Yes.

2. MSE should be a pretty good background for a patent agent as it includes a good deal of ME and ChemE knowledge (which isn't nearly as straightforward as ME). As mentioned in previous replies, a good background is helpful but no background will guarantee you a job as a patent agent. It will still take work to find opportunities in this economy. You may have to work at the Patent Office as an examiner for awhile or change cities to find a job that suits you. Patent agent practice is somewhat of a niche field. They aren't exactly rare, but aren't as common as patent attorneys or engineers.

 

[pmarley2]

travel

how much travel is required? let's say you were an adviser/agent, hired as a phd tech person, at a firm like RG. and if you have to travel will they put you in first class.

 

[berned_you]

how much travel is required? let's say you were an adviser/agent, hired as a phd tech person, at a firm like RG. and if you have to travel will they put you in first class.

I don't expect that agents travel very much. You may perhaps travel occasionally to conferences or to visit a client but I think that generally there would not be much travel involved. I definitely would not expect to be put in first class. I do not travel in first class because it's on the client's dollar and the flights are not terribly long. I've flown with attorneys in coach who have been put on client's private jets in the past. That was a real treat for him but he doesn't expect that treatment. It all depends on the client and the situation. Generally, it's all about keeping clients happy and often that means keeping the bills as low as possible.

You will appreciate though that every job is different.

 

[smc44]

I have a mixed background. I have an undergraduate degree in English and a graduate degree in Computer Science. For the past 8 years I've been working for a Defense Contractor as a software engineer in the field of Digital Communications. Because my undergraduate degree was not in a science field, I took the Fundamentals of Engineering test, and applied to the USPTO under Category C (I believe I qualified under Category B, but Category C seemed like a lot less paperwork). I recently took and passed the USPTO Registration Exam. I'm at a crossroads in my current career. My current employer is encouraging me to enter a graduate program in EE, but for the past couple of years I've been contemplating going to law school and making a career switch into patent law. Do you think with my background I'd be a good candidate to make the career change? I'd appreciate any feedback. Thanks for your time. This thread has been very helpful.

 

[berned_you]

I have a mixed background. I have an undergraduate degree in English and a graduate degree in Computer Science. For the past 8 years I've been working for a Defense Contractor as a software engineer in the field of Digital Communications. Because my undergraduate degree was not in a science field, I took the Fundamentals of Engineering test, and applied to the USPTO under Category C (I believe I qualified under Category B, but Category C seemed like a lot less paperwork). I recently took and passed the USPTO Registration Exam. I'm at a crossroads in my current career. My current employer is encouraging me to enter a graduate program in EE, but for the past couple of years I've been contemplating going to law school and making a career switch into patent law. Do you think with my background I'd be a good candidate to make the career change? I'd appreciate any feedback. Thanks for your time. This thread has been very helpful.

I know in this day and age everyone would really like some certainty in making career choices. School is expensive and it's not always easy to change paths once you're down another. It's great you have a PTO registration and industry experience. A law degree would put you in the position to apply for patent attorney positions and also other pursue other types of law (if you graduate from law school and decide to do another type of law, it's not a big deal like with an undergrad degree). That said, it's very difficult to determine your career prospects. I think you could make it happen. As noted in other posts, a lot of a person's success is determined by factors such as work ethic, geographical location, networking and pure determination/desire. You could have no problem finding a job or it could be harder than you expect. I simply cannot speculate your success. I suggest you go with whatever plan you believe will make you happiest. Law school isn't something to pursue if you aren't entirely committed as there is no guarantee you will find a job quickly or make the big bucks.

 

[smc44]

I know in this day and age everyone would really like some certainty in making career choices. School is expensive and it's not always easy to change paths once you're down another. It's great you have a PTO registration and industry experience. A law degree would put you in the position to apply for patent attorney positions and also other pursue other types of law (if you graduate from law school and decide to do another type of law, it's not a big deal like with an undergrad degree). That said, it's very difficult to determine your career prospects. I think you could make it happen. As noted in other posts, a lot of a person's success is determined by factors such as work ethic, geographical location, networking and pure determination/desire. You could have no problem finding a job or it could be harder than you expect. I simply cannot speculate your success. I suggest you go with whatever plan you believe will make you happiest. Law school isn't something to pursue if you aren't entirely committed as there is no guarantee you will find a job quickly or make the big bucks.

I appreciate your response. I realize that it's a rather subjective questions and not easy to answer without knowing the specifics of my situation. I've spoken with a number of people, and I am always looking to solicit more feedback. I have a friend that works in HR at a large law firm, and she's been trying to get me to consider a job as a Technical Specialist/Science Advisor for a number of years.

Switching careers is a big decision, and for me many factors come into play. I like my current job. Sometimes it's really interesting, and sometimes I feel like I'm trapped in the movie Office Space. The people I work with are great. But in the end, I think I'd be happier doing something else. And I would like to build upon my prior education and experience, and not abandon it entirely for something else. Thanks again for your feedback and starting this thread. It has been really helpful.

 

[chemraj]

Hi there

Hi there,

I have finished my PhD in Organic-Chemistry six months ago and I had 3 yr pharmaceutical industrial experience. I could not focus on preparing for the patBar exam because of my present job and hoping to concentrate soon. I have a simple and straight forward question here, May I know exactly what is the job market for patent agents with the background I have after finishing the patBar exam if everything goes well.

Thanks
Raj

 

[berned_you]

Hi there,

I have finished my PhD in Organic-Chemistry six months ago and I had 3 yr pharmaceutical industrial experience. I could not focus on preparing for the patBar exam because of my present job and hoping to concentrate soon. I have a simple and straight forward question here, May I know exactly what is the job market for patent agents with the background I have after finishing the patBar exam if everything goes well.

Thanks
Raj

My guess is you would fare well as pharma patents will always be sought and this is a field where attorneys will often want the help of an agent who is an expert in the latest tech. That said, the economy kind of stinks and I suggest you check employment listings for such a position in your area and perhaps call a few patent attorneys who work in obtaining pharma patents and get their input. Because of your level of expertise, you may be in a position to create your own job opening through networking and making it known what you have to offer.

 

[physwizard]

How about a master's degree in theoretical physics, and bachelor's degree in electrical engineering?

 

[AASaunders]

I read through a few pages of this thread and decided to research the career further and I can say that it is something I could pursue once I finish my 4 year masters in physics.

However, I have a few questions. I am from the UK and I know I would have to sit the UK and EU examinations to become a qualified patent attorney. But, if I wanted to do this in the USA I would then have to take further exams, right? Is this a viable route? Is it possible for a person from the UK to be a chartered patent attorney in the USA?

Many thanks.

 

[berned_you]

I read through a few pages of this thread and decided to research the career further and I can say that it is something I could pursue once I finish my 4 year masters in physics.

However, I have a few questions. I am from the UK and I know I would have to sit the UK and EU examinations to become a qualified patent attorney. But, if I wanted to do this in the USA I would then have to take further exams, right? Is this a viable route? Is it possible for a person from the UK to be a chartered patent attorney in the USA?

Many thanks.

In the US, we have patent agents and patent attorneys. In order to become a patent attorney, you must have a law degree but to be a patent agent, you do not. If you intend to practice overseas and simply want to label yourself as qualified to prosecute patents before the USPTO, simply take the patent bar to become a "patent agent." Here are the requirements http://www.uspto.gov/ip/boards/oed/GRB_March_2012.pdf

 

[newyorkpl2013]

I graduated Law school recently with a concentration in IP (in New York). I should be sworn in shortly as I passed my character and fitness test. I have always considered going into patent law but I don't have a science degree which would make me eligible (however, all my electives in college were science-based, and my degrees are in the math/science field, but do not qualify me for the patent bar) . I would need about 30 credits to get a second bachelors, so I was thinking of going back to school to try qualifying for patent law. I haven't decided which science degree I’ll go into yet, but leaning towards engineering (I’m assuming it is most helpful when dealing with patents?...I am very science minded, and have enjoyed all fields of science, but the multitude of choices available to me makes this a difficult decision)

I read this forum and a lot of it was interesting, however most questions were asked from undergrads and not many from people that graduated from law school.

Anyway, here are some of my questions, thanks in advance!

1. My initial plan is to look for a full time job in IP law with some law firm, and at the same time go to school to pursue science degree (should take about a year or so) . Then I can qualify for Patent bar, and once I pass, I will look into getting a better job as a patent attorney. Just wanted to know if this is a good route?

2. When you first got a job as a patent attorney, assuming you had little or no experience, how was it getting started as an entry position? difficult? did you receive training?

 

[berned_you]

1. My initial plan is to look for a full time job in IP law with some law firm, and at the same time go to school to pursue science degree (should take about a year or so) . Then I can qualify for Patent bar, and once I pass, I will look into getting a better job as a patent attorney. Just wanted to know if this is a good route?

2. When you first got a job as a patent attorney, assuming you had little or no experience, how was it getting started as an entry position? difficult? did you receive training?

1. Most firms will hire a "patent attorney" or a "trademark attorney." I would expect that a firm will have little interest in you pursuing other types of IP than what you're initially hired to do. My job is one exception and I know there are others out there but it is unusual. Therefore, I do not think it's realistic to expect your employer to encourage you to pursue a patent bar registration if you are hired to do trademarks/copyrights and they may not provide you with any patent work even if you do obtain your registration. You can certainly discuss this topic with potential employers but asking could also indicate you don't really want to do what you're interviewing for so it's a catch-22. I realize this doesn't make a lot of logical sense but it's just the way most firms seem to be set up. I have a lot of friends that have little variance in the type of work they do.

2. Most firms hire new grads with the desire to mold them into the attorneys they want. Often mentors are assigned and, if not, you'll likely be reporting to an experienced partner who will give you tasks. These tasks will be preparing first drafts, essentially. Then, they will provide markups and feedback and that's how you learn. It took me about 3 years until I felt like I could do this job on my own.

 

[Jpoznan0587]

Science Undergrad. Online Schools

1)I am chemistry major, hoping to become a patent agent (or work in the field) with my bachelors, or even be a lab teacher while I can go to law school at night. Is there a evening or online school , THAT IS REPUTABLE, that I can go to , so I can work during the day, for a science undergrad. ? I have an associates in poli. sci. , and was able to do a lot of that online through community college and then also took some state college courses online as well. While I've switched my major to a science b/c I would like to study patent law (and I don't want to do engineering, in case I would like to teach lab at colleges while in grad. school ), I realize most of the classes are during the day and it is hard for me to work at night b/c there are little to no office jobs and I have zero experience bartending and serving. Is there any good schools that are online or at night time for a science undergrad ? I live in NJ.

2)Secondly, I'm in my sophomore year of chemistry. What would you suggest after or towards my senior year in preparation ? My ideal situation would be to go to law school at night and have a full time day job. While I understand I can take the upsto exam without a phD, I see that you wrote that you cannot get a job as a patent attorney without a phD. So what would you suggest I do upon graduation? Should I take the exam and try to get a job as a patent agent with hopes for law school at night? Or do you suggest I take a job with a chem. bachlors, possibly lab teacher or lab worker, and go to law school at night?

***My main problem is that I am 26 and still living at home. I have no family members or friends that went to any type of college, so I am doing this all on my own and really need guidance.)I went for the poli. sci. associates at 21 and got it 2 years later and took some time off to figure out what I wanted to do. Now, I took a few chem. classes and realized I'm very good with science and math, (Without taking it at all in HS) I was able to stay in the top 98% of my class. So, I would like to know what is the best suggested route without wasting anymore time and with hopes of after getting this bachelors, I can still continue on with school WHILE being able to make enough money to move out.

 

[nmendels]

Hello, I am going to finish a BS in Physics very soon and I am confident that I would eventually want to go into patent law. I have spent 3 summers doing research in physics (I have worked primarily with superconductors and high powered lasers). My question is after I graduate would it be worth getting a masters in something (either physics or some kind of engineering) or should I go straight to law school or should I try to do a joint ME/JD program. Also, do you know if getting an ME would necessarily make you much more employable?

 

[Law=My Life]

I'm still high school and I'm trying to get a head start on what I want to become in the future and becoming a patent lawyer seems to spark new ideas in my mind. I have a couple of questions.
1) Would I have to major in science to have a better on becoming a patent lawyer? If I do in your opinion which ones are the best?

2)What would be the best school for me to look into?
3)I really enjoy communicating with others face to face so how can I make sure I get to be in the courtroom but also do work outside the courtroom to make sure I am familiar with both sides of the work force?
4) How much is the difficulty stage on becoming a patent lawyer?
5) What type of degree do you suggest I should have to make sure my deal is sealed completely?
Thank you for your time and have a good day(: