Are women more beautiful than men

[honestrosewater]

Question for MB, or anyone else that knows: Who was doing the selection among humans, early humans, apes- male or female? Was there much sexual selection going on?

BTW, I think http://www.artrenewal.org/asp/database/image.asp?id=1558 is beautiful, but if you're looking for a good conversation...

Edit: Hah, that is too funny. Okay, here are http://www.artrenewal.org/asp/database/image.asp?id=1560 for Evo and MB. Can't find the brains...

 

[hypatia]

ok I'm off to take a cold shower now...{sighsssssss}

 

[honestrosewater]

Okay, I removed the rear view. Wouldn't want to keep the ladies or gents from getting any work done all day...

 

[Danger]

there are many women who age gracefully.

i demand to know where you have seen such a sight!

The famous ones that come to mind are Tina Turner, Dianne(sp?) Sawyer, Katey Sagal, Julie Andrews, Meryl Streep, Jolene Blalok (okay, Vulcans are different, but she looks pretty damned good for 65...)

 

[ramollari]

Question for MB, or anyone else that knows: Who was doing the selection among humans, early humans, apes- male or female? Was there much sexual selection going on?

Were the early female apes more beautiful than the male apes?

Which are more beautiful among birds: males or females?

 

[honestrosewater]

Were the early female apes more beautiful than the male apes?

Which are more beautiful among birds: males or females?

Hm, I don't think I've ever looked at apes that way before. Danger?
Birds are pretty much the only example I know of when it comes to sexual selection. Or maybe the only ones I can think of right now. But is it really safe to go backwards? If women are more beautiful, then males were the selectors? I'm not sure modern concepts of beauty are even applicable, I was just looking for someone to blame for the men.

 

[GCT]

Ok, so it's the word "Beautiful" and "handsome" let's say "Good looking"
niether genders are better looking than the opposite

Yeah, I suppose this is one way to go, I think that the "physical attractiveness" of a man is more defined. Such as where one refers to the statue of David, the physical features are more quite specific, rigid...defined. Nothing generally beautiful about it in the larger sense. I think that the ideal female body is to be more beautiful all over so as in one unified theme. No flaws whatsoever. And thus it is more fitting to call a female body "beautiful." Male...more "handsome", "powerful", "cut", defined.

 

[cronxeh]

This thread is funny! Now we're arguing over which sex ages more gracefully?? Ha...I'll make it easy for you...neither! Men get bald, grow a gut, and have nasty hair growing out of their ears and noses. Women start to sag and get that hunchback look. Both get wrinkly, get arthritis, start to creak and groan as they move. This is of course why I just don't plan on getting old.

i thought baldness was caused due to excess testosterone?

yea I think I just gave major kudos to all bald guys.. there is probably a crowd of horny women storming the hair transplant clinic right about now

 

[bjon-07]

quote "This is due to evolution not ashthetic beauty. Men seeing women turned on would be in a position to reproduce with one of them, or both due to the opportunity. Women seeing the same thing would not be interested in doing sex with a random man just because he was turned on"


men are turned on by girls kissing because they are basic.

Q: what's good?
A: one women
Q: what's better than that?
A: two women
Q: is there anything better than that?
Q: five women!

 

[gravenewworld]

Men age with grace far better than women. By the time a woman is 60 her boobs are already on the floor and needs to have 3 face lifts.

 

[Gale]

maybe we're all just a bit superficial about a woman's looks. if an older woman with sagging breats isn't beautiful... then what? surgery is beautiful? an older woman who doesn't look her age? women seem to be held to higher standards physically. i think it'd make sense if we then seem to be more 'beautiful.'

at any rate. i think men and women can look good or bad. i tend to be more picky about the women i find attractive. so meh.

 

[Danger]

Hm, I don't think I've ever looked at apes that way before. Danger?

Huh? Wha...? Why's everybody lookin' at me?

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

As a male I find women to me more attractive. It would seem to me though that more women find the female figure to be aesthetically pleasing then there are men who find the male figure to be pleasing.

I don't get this idea that women have to have a perfect figure to be beautiful though. My last girlfriend had an underdevolped leg due to "fetal yoga" as she put it. I still found her to be emensly attractive though from the very first time I ever saw her.
Ofcourse this may have been because it would be harder for her to get away.

 

[Huckleberry]

Why must attractiveness be exclusively combined with any kind of desire for sex?

I look at the body of a healthy woman and I think it is beautiful and sexually desirable. Looking at the body of a healthy man and I still think it is beautiful. I think there is so much social conditioning that it shapes peoples beliefs from peer pressure.

Here's a story about my loving family. After leaving the military I was trying to get started in Phoenix, AZ. I was staying with my great uncle while I was looking for a job and saving up some money to get a place of my own. After a few weeks he told me I had to be out by the end of the month. He told me that it was because his brother was coming. His brother is my grandfather, and there was an extra room that they could have stayed in. I figured he has always been a bachelor and likes his solitude and maybe so many people visiting at once would make him feel uncomfortable.

So I had been working for almost three weeks and had maybe two paychecks. I had the tires on my car replaced and some work done and filled the gas tank. The rest I spent on a room for the week in a dive on Indian School road. I had almost no money for food. (I had, perhaps foolishly, spent almost all the money I had saved from the navy driving around the country for several months and living on friends couches, hotel rooms, and sometimes staying in my car at rest stops.) I still wondered why my great uncle (or 'not so great uncle' as I often refer to him now) had evicted me.

A week or two later I was visiting my aunt and uncle in southern Arizona and my uncle told me that my great uncle had said he believed I was gay and that was the reason he kicked me out. One time when my uncle was drunk (not a good move for a diabetic) he just asked me straight up "Are you gay?" I told him "No." But ofcourse the family rumor mill went crazy and gossip was flying around, but nobody else had the courage to ask me how I felt. That made me very uncomfortable. I went to confront my great uncle and he claimed he never said I was gay. I still had to deal with the silent accusations of my family.


I realized a few things about my family. I don't remember ever hugging my father. That sort of physical contact was never allowed. I was 8 or 9 years old and went with my parents to my father's mother's funeral. She had died of some kind of intestinal cancer. I went to give my grandfather a hug and he put out his hand for a handshake. I was taken aback by that. A 9 year old kid isn't allowed to hug his grandfather even at a funeral of a loved one.

I've dealt with the same thing throughout middle and high school. Because I don't exhibit the stereotypical attitude that men are expected to have for women in this culture there are mean people that make mean assumptions. I think its all bunk. So many people looking over there shoulders questioning everyone's sexuality to make sure everyone is the same so they can create a nice safe comfort zone for themselves. I don't think those kids actually believed I was gay; they were trying to reassure themselves and their peers of their own masculinity or femininity. Yes, some women will often accuse a man of being gay if she is upset because he doesn't find her attractive. It's all hateful. There are women who enjoy hurting a man they consider weak.

What is wrong with taking pleasure in hugging a friend that you haven't seen in a long time. When a friend smiles at me I feel good about myself and the smile is attractive. I find that the more I come to know and love someone the more attractive they appear to me. There is nothing more or less attractive in either a man or a woman's body. Men don't age more gracefully; women are just more accepting of men's appearance while both men and women are very critical of a woman's appearance. Sexual attraction is only a small part of what makes a person attractive.

Are people doomed to hate what they don't understand? Can we not truly think for ourselves? I think Kerrie said it best with her nice, short, direct reply "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder."

 

[zoobyshoe]

It's a basic trick quetion, really.

 

[Gale]

ok, confession: I'm not a skinny girl... matter of fact, I'm probably the opposite... seriously. I'm not as fat as they come, but I'm significantly bigger than many of my friends. I dated and was engaged to a skinny guy, i never believe he thought i was beautiful because of my weight. I'm now dating a different guy, who insists everytime i see him, that I'm more beautiful than before, he's also very obviously sexually attracted to me... but i still don't feel like an attractive girl. Its really phenominally difficult to understand why someone would like my looks. they way I've seen it is that, well, my face is pretty-ish, so hopefully that's enough for someone to not dwell on my size.

i look at the pictures of models, and i can't believe anything other than that would be beautiful. all my friends are small and beautiful. i think I'm probably the only girl above a size 1, (and I'm quite above that.) its obvious when we go out who people find more attractive.

lately I've gotten so confused. I've actually talked to people who say they like round or thick girls... fat even? i just don't understand it. i really don't. I've even had guys who generally like skinny girls say that I'm plenty attractive... which is even more confusing, because I'm not skinny at all, i don't understand it.

the more i think about this thread, the worse i feel about things. i don't feel as critical at all when i look at men, and i can see they beauty in most guys. but in women... its so easy to see all the flaws.

 

[zoobyshoe]

lately I've gotten so confused. I've actually talked to people who say they like round or thick girls... fat even? i just don't understand it. i really don't. I've even had guys who generally like skinny girls say that I'm plenty attractive... which is even more confusing, because I'm not skinny at all, i don't understand it.

What makes a woman attractive or not depends on the individual man you're asking. That's all there is too it. Huckleberry echoed Kerrie, and so will I: "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder."

A guy can look at a woman and think she's very beautiful, and, at the same time, not be all that sexually attracted. A different woman, one who falls outside what he thinks of as "beautiful" can affect him, because of the whole picture, such that he's much more attracted to her. We are very much affected by the way women move, for example. Women move in an essentially "unmale" way that draws attention to itself and fascinates us.

Example: If a guy picks up a glass of water he most likely uses way more strength or muscle than is necessary. A woman is much more likely to pick it up with the least possible effort, and it comes off as graceful.

In addition, there is all the body language and facial expression stuff that most men don't know how to describe and analyze. It is always powerfully affecting them, but they don't talk about it with much sophistication. A guy can say a girl has a sexy walk, but that's about the extent of it. They end up doing a lot of talking to each other about women's boobs and such, by default.

 

[cronxeh]

Gale all I can tell you is that its not your body fat index or even your height or even your IQ that turns a guy on sometimes... its a combination of all these factors.

You have a beautiful face, and girls should be soft and plushy like teddy bears, plus for reproductive purposes a big girl is far better for pregnancy than a skinny girl. All these things play out in a guy's mind, and yea sure he might cheat on you with a skinny b----h, but at the end of the day he comes back crawling to you and asking for forgiveness

 

[Dr.Brain]

Are male aliens more beautiful or female aliens more handsome?

 

[whozum]

Different people like different things. Don't believe me? Search google for "fetish".

 

[zoobyshoe]

Are male aliens more beautiful or female aliens more handsome?

The anser to that quetion is an unqualified yes, except on Tuesdays.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Different guys like different things. Don't believe me? Search google for "fetish".

I was going to bring up the amazing variety of groupings by type you find on porn sites, but, of course, I don't look at porn sites so how would I know?

 

[Gale]

I'm confused... i really don't get it at all... i don't understand... fat girls... appealing? bah... nope.. don't see it. to me, if a girl is fat, she has to work on other things so that people don't mind she's fat. no one wants her to be fat in the first place.

 

[zoobyshoe]

I'm confused... i really don't get it at all... i don't understand... fat girls... appealing? bah... nope.. don't see it. to me, if a girl is fat, she has to work on other things so that people don't mind she's fat. no one wants her to be fat in the first place.

There's "curvy" and then there's "fat". The only reason I can come up with to explain why someone would be turned on by a really obese woman is that they have a low opinion of their own attractiveness and think that the only women available to them must also be obviously unattractive.

When it comes to "curvy", that is, more often than not, just plain sexy, in and of itself. Still, it always depends on the whole picture.

 

[whozum]

There's "curvy" and then there's "fat". The only reason I can come up with to explain why someone would be turned on by a really obese woman is that they have a low opinion of their own attractiveness and think that the only women available to them must also be obviously unattractive.

When it comes to "curvy", that is, more often than not, just plain sexy, in and of itself. Still, it always depends on the whole picture.

In regards to your earlier quote then, why would people be into amputees, or extremely tall or built women? What makes obese different?

 

[zoobyshoe]

In regards to your earlier quote then, why would people be into amputees, or extremely tall or built women? What makes obese different?

What I said about why obese women might be attractive to someone was pure speculation. I was just throwing out the most logical sounding idea that occurred to me.

In general, I can't understand any guy who has a loyalty to a "type". Do guys really exist who will only be turned on by blondes? I've heard stories, but I don't understand it.

Here's one possible explanation. A couple/three months ago someone told me the story of a guy who, when he was a kid, had to reach out from his bed and hold his bedroom door closed with one hand while he was entertaining himself with the other to prevent anyone from barging in on him. Later, when he found real girlfriends, it turned out he had so conditioned himself, that he couldn't climax without having his hand on a doorknob. I have no idea if that story is true, or if it's a new urban legend, but it's an interesting story.

 

[Gale]

seriously, my head wants to explode... I'm sooooo... is there an other word for confused... cause I've said confused a lot...

i'm like... fat... some people like that? some guys hit on me... am i hot? i want to be thin... i think... would that make me more or less hot? i thought more... what do i actually even look like? i have nooo idea! i can't tell what's hot, what's not. what am i sposed to change and what stays? gah... i still can't believe i might even possibly be attractive as is... it doesn't make sense... seriously! guh!

 

[whozum]

What I said about why obese women might be attractive to someone was pure speculation. I was just throwing out the most logical sounding idea that occurred to me.

Makes sense.

In general, I can't understand any guy who has a loyalty to a "type". Do guys really exist who will only be turned on by blondes? I've heard stories, but I don't understand it.

Its usually not only blondes, but blondes have an advantage. It's like preferring Dell's to HP's. An HP can still be a kick-ass copmuter, but you would get the Dell because you like Dell more (or something like that).

Here's one possible explanation. A couple/three months ago someone told me the story of a guy who, when he was a kid, had to reach out from his bed and hold his bedroom door closed with one hand while he was entertaining himself with the other to prevent anyone from barging in on him. Later, when he found real girlfriends, it turned out he had so conditioned himself, that he couldn't climax without having his hand on a doorknob. I have no idea if that story is true, or if it's a new urban legend, but it's an interesting story.

It could be true, but that's more of a psychological conditioning problem rather than a sexual preference. 'Why we have a preference' is a different story than 'do we have a preference'.

 

[whozum]

seriously, my head wants to explode... I'm sooooo... is there an other word for confused... cause I've said confused a lot...

i'm like... fat... some people like that? some guys hit on me... am i hot? i want to be thin... i think... would that make me more or less hot? i thought more... what do i actually even look like? i have nooo idea! i can't tell what's hot, what's not. what am i sposed to change and what stays? gah... i still can't believe i might even possibly be attractive as is... it doesn't make sense... seriously! guh!

Relax. Those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Actually, across cultures, it turns out that the size of a woman is not as important as the hip to waist ratio. Another measure of beauty is symmetry - an indicator of good breeding. A clear complexion and other indicators of good health are generally considered to be attractive features. In fact, in the end it seems that it's all about making babies. At least according to one study, it turns out that universally, men most prefer a hip to waist ratio of 7/9 I think, which also happens to have the highest success rate in childbirth. So at least in one sense it seems our instincts for beauty are really flags for reproductive viability.

The same is true for women. They tend to prefer little grey guys with big heads, black, almond shaped eyes, and like Evo said, long fingers with little suctions cups on the ends.

So why are sunsets beautiful? Also, I dated women who appeared to be very attractive at first, but not so after getting to know them. So how does inner beauty differ from the initial attraction of biological beauty? And how can they reverse roles in such a real sense?

 

[zoobyshoe]

i'm like... fat... some people like that? some guys hit on me... am i hot?

Yes, you're hot. Unhot women don't get hit on.

i want to be thin... i think... would that make me more or less hot?

You'd probably be about the same. You might attract a different bunch of guys though.

i thought more... what do i actually even look like?

No one really knows what they look like, because what you look like changes depending on who's looking at you.

i still can't believe i might even possibly be attractive as is... it doesn't make sense... seriously! guh!

Now, that's just crazy talk. Anyway, I think the problem is that you're just obsessing too much about it right now.

 

[Gale]

Yes, you're hot. Unhot women don't get hit on.

You'd probably be about the same. You might attract a different bunch of guys though.

No one really knows what they look like, because what you look like changes depending on who's looking at you.

Now, that's just crazy talk. Anyway, I think the problem is that you're just obsessing too much about it right now.

well, i used to think i was hit on as a joke... you know how people can be cruel and stuff right? my family always insisted i was pretty ugly growing up. my sisters were especially mean. my father was too. i have riddiculously gorgeous friends... I'm a bit insecure...

i'm going to go eat a sandwhich now...

 

[zoobyshoe]

The same is true for women. They tend to prefer little grey guys with big heads, black, almond shaped eyes, and like Evo said, long fingers with little suctions cups on the ends.

This misinformation is diametrically opposed to serious research by reputable labs that have continually discovered a female preference for males with height in excess of eight feet, profuse, thick body hair, sloping brow, and prodigiously large feet.

 

[cronxeh]

ROFL

wow Gale that one last line just made me laugh out loud at 4 am.. wow thanks

you are a gorgeous specimen i don't see a problem with hitting on you (as a matter of fact i was a few hours ago )

 

[dextercioby]

You too??

Gale,are you double-crossing me?

Daniel.