Are You a Vegetarian? | Poll & Discussion

[PAllen]

I'm not aware that the statement you make about ratio of proteins is true.

You've never heard about most vegetable proteins being incomplete by themselves, so you mix them? Rice and beans together gives complete, good quality protein. Each, by themselves, is low quality protein.

FYI: I was a strict vegetarian (lacto) for several years. I still factor this into my diet, because I go substantial periods where I happen to be vegetarian because I like eating that way.

 

[turbo]

In every place I have ever lived (in the US - did not think of it when I lived abroad), there have been nearby options for fresh meat. Usually they are smaller farms which are involved in organic farming. If you go with beef, you will also need a very large freezer, because you cannot just buy one steak. You typically need to buy at least 1/8 or more (much more typical to go with 1/4) of a steer.

My wife and I have two large chest freezers We need them to store all the produce, fruits, and berries that we'll use for the upcoming year, and to capitalize on sales on poultry and some meats. There is a farm nearby that specializes in grass-fed, open pastured Angus cattle, but we don't have to buy quarters to buy locally. They also sell in smaller quantities, though it doesn't seem all that small when you're driving home with a pickup bed half-full of steaks, roasts, and free-range chickens.

We are also very fortunate to have an artisan butcher shop/deli close by. They do custom cutting, and the beef and pork are locally raised and top quality. Except for ground meat and cheap roasts, my wife doesn't buy meats from the supermarket anymore. It's nice to be able to stop at the butcher's and find specials on skirt steaks, flank steaks, flat-iron steaks, chops etc, and "stock up" on 10-20# or so instead of buying boxes of beef. The also have a smokehouse and process their own bacon, hams, etc. A few years back, they moved their retail location to a place that is quite rural, but adjacent to a very busy intersection with lots of through-traffic. Business is booming, so we have little chance of losing this valuable source of good-quality food.

 

[daveb]

There are several grains, such as quinoa and amaranth, which are also complete proteins. And quinoa is yummy. Cook it in vegetable stock, and add some garam masala, roasted slivered almonds, and dried currants for a nice flavor). Serve it with a garlic crusted baked tofu and your favorite vegetable dish for a healthy meal.

 

[Pengwuino]

10% of PFers have no idea what vegetarianism is.

 

[Ra1n5had0w]

That sounds delicious. I love red quinoa. I think you've helped me decide upon what to have for dinner.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

10% of PFers have no idea what vegetarianism is.

True, but I've gotten a pretty good idea of what 10% of vegetarianism is.

 

[Oltz]

I do not eat any vegetables at all that are not stuck to a piece of meat (i.e. Peppers,onions in a fajita/cheese steak or pizza sauce). I eat Grains and starches (yes corn is not a vegetable) and the only fruit I eat is red delicious apples (maybe a dozen a year).

I think I am an extreme example of how little we really need to eat what food eats.

If it used to breath/move I will eat it.

But the army did ruin eggs for me

An egg is a waste of a good chicken

 

[Norman]

My wife and I have two large chest freezers We need them to store all the produce, fruits, and berries that we'll use for the upcoming year, and to capitalize on sales on poultry and some meats. There is a farm nearby that specializes in grass-fed, open pastured Angus cattle, but we don't have to buy quarters to buy locally. They also sell in smaller quantities, though it doesn't seem all that small when you're driving home with a pickup bed half-full of steaks, roasts, and free-range chickens.

We are also very fortunate to have an artisan butcher shop/deli close by. They do custom cutting, and the beef and pork are locally raised and top quality. Except for ground meat and cheap roasts, my wife doesn't buy meats from the supermarket anymore. It's nice to be able to stop at the butcher's and find specials on skirt steaks, flank steaks, flat-iron steaks, chops etc, and "stock up" on 10-20# or so instead of buying boxes of beef. The also have a smokehouse and process their own bacon, hams, etc. A few years back, they moved their retail location to a place that is quite rural, but adjacent to a very busy intersection with lots of through-traffic. Business is booming, so we have little chance of losing this valuable source of good-quality food.

I am so jealous turbo! I would do a public happy dance if I could just get a butcher not in a grocery store within 30 minutes of me... my area of Virginia is disappointing that way.

Especially after growing up and going to college in Wisconsin. We do have an organic, grass-fed cattle rancher about 45 minutes away right now - but they require a minimum of a quarter steer to be purchased. When I lived in Wisconsin, one of my best friends had a brother who was an rancher (grass fed only). So my friend and I would go in on a quarter steer every 6-9 months or so and his brother would have it butchered and drive it down to visit. It was so GOOD! Also you make a lot of friends in grad school when you hold a party and grill steaks for the whole department! Also, this was back when there was the whole mad cow scare in the UK and Canada (and all the worries in the US). I never worried because I knew the exact farm where my beef came from! I also miss the fun of having to figure out how to cook all the different cuts of meat. Sort of makes you become a better cook.

 

[BadBrain]

Of course, I'm a vegetarian!

Even more so if you accept us ovo-lacto (i.e., egg-eating and dairy-products-eating and drinking) vegetarians to be true vegetarians.

Even more so if you accept us ovo-lacto-burgero-choppo-steako-roasto-sausageo-barbequeo-Southern fried chickeno-vegetarians as true vegetarians!

Of course I'm a vegetarian!

According to the above definition!

Edit:

Hey, I'm a physicist, not a hippie!

And yet this is truly one of my favorite songs:



***

So, maybe I'm truly re-evaluating my entire life at my advanced age!

At my age, I think I've earned the right to do that!

Cheers!

 

[PAllen]

There are several grains, such as quinoa and amaranth, which are also complete proteins. And quinoa is yummy. Cook it in vegetable stock, and add some garam masala, roasted slivered almonds, and dried currants for a nice flavor). Serve it with a garlic crusted baked tofu and your favorite vegetable dish for a healthy meal.

I know. I said most. Neither of these grains was sold in the US when I was a strict vegetarian. Quinoa actually has serious adverse effect on the local economy in Peru, where hunger and malnutrition have increased because foreign demand for quinoa has made it unaffordable for the local population. However, I love quinoa, and eat it regularly.

The main point remains: a vegetarian needs to know more than a meat eater who eats a reasonable amount of vegetables.

 

[Monique]

You've never heard about most vegetable proteins being incomplete by themselves, so you mix them? Rice and beans together gives complete, good quality protein. Each, by themselves, is low quality protein.

No, that's not what I said/meant. Pythagorean suggested that you need a nutritionalist in order to figure out a vegetarian diet that will contain all 9 essential amino acids. A diet that includes soybean will already have all the essential amino acids, a varied diet will ensure the nutritional requirements are also met.

I once logged my food intake for several weeks and analyzed the supposed nutritional value, my intake of everything from minerals to vitamins to proteins was good (yes, including B12 and iron).

 

[daveb]

Yes, a varied vegan diet can give your body pretty much everything you need. I spoke with an evolutionary antropologist several years back (can't remember her name) who said that while humans didn't evolve needing to eat meat, we evolved with the capability to eat meat, so a strictly vegan diet, while doable, requires at least some knowledge (a lot is easy to find nowadays, I agree).

However, I think what turns most people off even trying a vegan diet is the lack of really good recipes that are quick and easy, but also tasty. Many people think of a diet of "vegetables and beans" when they hear veganism. What makes any diet worthwhile (IMO) is the taste, so having a handle on what spices go well together (as well as a well stocked spice pantry) makes all the difference.

It takes a bit of work (and time if you like making all your meals like I normally do), but I actually enjoy the taste of what I make, and I save money now (OK, I'd probably also save money if I cooked non-vegan meals also). The prepared vegan meals are way too expensive to eat those regularly.

Usually, I just take existing recipes and replace milk with unsweetened soymilk (for light dishes) or coconut milk (for those that use cream or whole milk), and meats with homemade seitan or store bought tofu (trying to make your own is a pain, I admit). Butter is replaced by Earth Balance (but only if the butter is for taste, rather than non-stick cooking).

 

[Evo]

Most vegetarians are probably more aware of what they are eating nutritionally than most people on a normal diet that have little to no clue of the nutritional value of their food.

 

[Evo]

Yes, a varied vegan diet can give your body pretty much everything you need. I spoke with an evolutionary antropologist several years back (can't remember her name) who said that while humans didn't evolve needing to eat meat, we evolved with the capability to eat meat, so a strictly vegan diet, while doable, requires at least some knowledge (a lot is easy to find nowadays, I agree).

However, I think what turns most people off even trying a vegan diet is the lack of really good recipes that are quick and easy, but also tasty. Many people think of a diet of "vegetables and beans" when they hear veganism. What makes any diet worthwhile (IMO) is the taste, so having a handle on what spices go well together (as well as a well stocked spice pantry) makes all the difference.

It takes a bit of work (and time if you like making all your meals like I normally do), but I actually enjoy the taste of what I make, and I save money now (OK, I'd probably also save money if I cooked non-vegan meals also). The prepared vegan meals are way too expensive to eat those regularly.

Usually, I just take existing recipes and replace milk with unsweetened soymilk (for light dishes) or coconut milk (for those that use cream or whole milk), and meats with homemade seitan or store bought tofu (trying to make your own is a pain, I admit). Butter is replaced by Earth Balance (but only if the butter is for taste, rather than non-stick cooking).

Why do you do it when it's not natural or healthy on it's own?

 

[daveb]

I started it mainly for environmental reasons, and the health benefits were secondary (at the time, I wasn't aware of the health benefits, to be honest).

 

[Evo]

I started it mainly for environmental reasons, and the health benefits were secondary (at the time, I wasn't aware of the health benefits, to be honest).

You did it because you didn't realize it was unhealthy?

People who follow a vegan lifestyle — strict vegetarians who try to
eat no meat or animal products of any kind — may increase their risk of
developing blood clots and atherosclerosis or “hardening of the arteries,” which are conditions that can lead to heart attacks and stroke. That’s the conclusion of a review of dozens of articles published on the biochemistry of
vegetarianism during the past 30 years. The article appeared in the Journal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry (1).

http://nutrition.ucdavis.edu/perspectives/pastIssues/2011/1NP%20JanFeb11.pdf page 5

It does sound like you've done research and go to great lengths to try to get the nutrients you need. So if you enjoy it, go for it. Just be careful.

 

[Pythagorean]

No, that's not what I said/meant. Pythagorean suggested that you need a nutritionalist in order to figure out a vegetarian diet that will contain all 9 essential amino acids. A diet that includes soybean will already have all the essential amino acids, a varied diet will ensure the nutritional requirements are also met.

I once logged my food intake for several weeks and analyzed the supposed nutritional value, my intake of everything from minerals to vitamins to proteins was good (yes, including B12 and iron).

Well, I said "OR well informed" which you sound like you are. But you suggested that the same can be said for omnivores, which I agree with. I try to be as well-informed as I can, but sometimes it's not easy.

Speaking of which, have you heard much about the controversy with isoflavones in soy?

 

[Evo]

Jimmy Snyder alert!

Too much soy could lead to kidney stones

New research indicates that soybeans and soy-based foods, a staple in the diets of many health-conscious consumers, may promote kidney stones in those prone to the painful condition. The finding will be published in the September issue of the Journal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry, a peer-reviewed journal of the American Chemical Society, the world’s largest scientific society.

Under these guidelines, no soybean or soy-[based] food tested could be recommended for consumption by patients with a personal history of kidney stones,” she said

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2001-08/acs-tms082801.php

 

[Monique]

Well, I said "OR well informed" which you sound like you are.

My parents taught me common sense

Speaking of which, have you heard much about the controversy with isoflavones in soy?

Yes, I've heard of it in relation to a presentation on hypospadias. I did a quick Pubmed search at the time and found the relationship is only suggestive.

 

[daveb]

You did it because you didn't realize it was unhealthy?



http://nutrition.ucdavis.edu/perspectives/pastIssues/2011/1NP%20JanFeb11.pdf page 5

It does sound like you've done research and go to great lengths to try to get the nutrients you need. So if you enjoy it, go for it. Just be careful.

That's the first I've ever heard of a vegan diet being at higher risk for blood clots and hardened arteries. I'd want to look at the reviews Duo Li made, since he says two opposite things.

People who follow a vegan lifestyle — strict vegetarians who try to eat no meat or animal products of any kind — may increase their risk of developing blood clots and atherosclerosis or “hardening of the arteries,” which are conditions that can lead to heart attacks and stroke.

and later

Duo Li notes in the review that meat eaters are known for having a significantly higher combination of cardiovascular risk factors than vegetarians. Lower-risk vegans, however, may not be immune.

It seems like the ACS is saying two opposing things! Maybe they meant that vegans aren't immune, and that while they have reduced risk, they still have risk. Unfortunately, the ACS site doesn't mention what journal articles were reviewed.

 

[Evo]

This is the actual abstract which doesn't contain the confusing verbiage.

This review summarizes the effect of a habitual vegetarian diet on clinical complications in relation to chemistry and biochemistry. Omnivores have a significantly higher cluster of cardiovascular risk factors compared with vegetarians, including increased body mass index, waist to hip ratio, blood pressure, plasma total cholesterol (TC), triacylglycerol and LDL-C levels, serum lipoprotein(a) concentration, plasma factor VII activity, ratios of TC/HDL-C, LDL-C/HDL-C and TAG/HDL-C, and serum ferritin levels. Compared with omnivores, vegetarians, especially vegans, have lower serum vitamin B12 concentration and n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acid (PUFA) levels in the tissue membrane phospholipids, which are associated with increased collagen and ADP stimulated ex vivo whole blood platelet aggregation, plasma 11-dehydrothromboxane B2, and homocysteine levels and decreased plasma HDL-C. This may be associated with an increased thrombotic and atherosclerotic risk. It is suggested that vegetarians, especially vegans, should increase their dietary n-3 PUFA and vitamin B12 intakes.

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf103846u?tokenDomain=presspac&tokenAccess=presspac&forwardService=showFullText&journalCode=jafcau

If you can't download the entire study, this is the actual press release, it doesn't contain the contradiction.

http://portal.acs.org/portal/acs/corg/content?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=PP_ARTICLEMAIN&node_id=223&content_id=CNBP_026605&use_sec=true&sec_url_var=region1&__uuid=f2e3a818-52bd-4a70-94a2-21fd141a2760

 

[daveb]

Thanks!

 

[Pythagorean]

My parents taught me common sense

It must have been a lot of work for your science teachers to undo such a "virtue"!

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen."
-Einstein

 

[ArcanaNoir]

I recently decided to try being vegetarian. When I really thought about it, my diet was mostly vegetarian anyway. Mac and cheese and crackers and fruit snacks are all vegetarian anyway. So are spaghettios. Although the spaghettios are less fun without the hot dogs. Oh well, I guess I'll have to look elsewhere for fun. Like at my new flinstones vitamins...

 

[rootX]

I was vegetarian in my early age but now I don't like limiting my freedom. I would eat anything that my stomach can take. I am really interested in trying all kinds of meats.

 

[ArcanaNoir]

I wish it was like star trek and we had replicators that could make guilt-free kill-free meat.

[edit] and calorie/fat/cholesterol free meat.

 

[micromass]

I wish it was like star trek and we had replicators that could make guilt-free kill-free meat.

[edit] and calorie/fat/cholesterol free meat.

So true...

 

[ArcanaNoir]

So true...

oh and I forgot free-free meat. like, free of cost, as in, free. freeeeeeee. free food. I love when I can go outside and pick food off a tree. It's a great humanitarian feeling.Like, "hey, don't stress, the food is free!"

 

[rootX]

I wish it was like star trek and we had replicators that could make guilt-free kill-free meat.

[edit] and calorie/fat/cholesterol free meat.

Just wait a bit more! You probably missed my link http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-15402552, I posted a while ago in this thread.

You can develop all kinds of justifications to make yourself feel better and free yourself from guilt. Personally, I just choose ignorance.

 

[ArcanaNoir]

Just wait a bit more! You probably missed my link http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-15402552, I posted a while ago in this thread.

You can develop all kinds of justifications to make yourself feel better and free yourself from guilt. Personally, I just choose ignorance.

That's very interesting. What about that law prohibiting eating your experiments? That's silly. Food experiments are the best!

 

[turbo]

That's very interesting. What about that law prohibiting eating your experiments? That's silly. Food experiments are the best!

I worked with a guy that once was a research assistant at the University of Maine. They were involved with programs studying the feasibility of flash-freezing and shipping Maine lobsters. Guess what happened to the lobsters and lobster-parts that were not required? I would love to have been in Gerry's research group. (who buys the butter?)

 

[Reshma]

Wow, the thread has grown a lot since I last posted!

I haven't read all the posts on this thread, just giving my take on vegetarism. I have been a vegetarian all my life and I have never tasted any kind of meat or eggs. This really isn't uncommon in India, since there are a lot of people who are vegetarian by religion. It is more of a choice for me.

Even then, I have often been asked about the supposed lack of proteins in a vegetarian diet. But most vegetarians in India always have some form of protein in their daily diet in the form of pulses. Soybean is consumed as a pulse and used for production of vegetable oil. While soy-based food products are popular among vegetarians in western nations, tofu is virtually unknown in most parts of India.

I personally haven't experienced any health problems or fatique due to my diet (I swim regularly and do sports, btw). I have an aversion to the smell of eggs, so never tried them. Some people have spoken about the health benefits of eating fish. I cannot speak for other countries, but I would be wary of eating any seafood in India due to the high mercury levels in the seas here. Expectant mothers in particular should avoid eating fish in India.

There are hardly any organised retails selling packaged meat here. In India, one has to buy meat directly from the slaughter-houses or abattoirs as they are called here. These places are far from humane, which is also one of the many reasons why I could never bring myself to eat meat or even use leather goods.

 

[Monique]

I cannot speak for other countries, but I would be wary of eating any seafood in India due to the high mercury levels in the seas here. Expectant mothers in particular should avoid eating fish in India.

The same in the Netherlands, pregnant women are advised to avoid eating predatory fish and fish caught from rivers due to negative health effects (e.g. high mercury and PCBs).

 

[ThomasT]

Not a vegetarian. Love meat. Eat it at least three times a day usually. Grew up eating roast beef, pork and chicken, lots of potatoes and bread, and an occasional fruit and vegetable. Today my diet is mostly roast beef or beef stews with potatoes, carrots and onions. I also like broccoli which I keep and eat a lot of. Once a week I make falafel (with garbanzos, fresh herbs, garlic, onions, flour and seasoning; and tzatziki sause (with Greek yogurt, cucumber, onion, garlic, lemon and seasoning). And there's the tuna or chicken salad (it's fun to get creative with herbs and seasonings with these) sandwiches with tomato, and the eggs-grits-sausages-biscuits-bacon-potatoes-jams-yogurt breakfasts (and lots of butter).

I'm 64, only slightly overweight, with a usually normal blood pressure, and feel good, so apparently proportionately lots of fruits and vegetables isn't necessary. Of course it's possible that I would feel even better if I did eat lots of fruits and vegetables and less meat, but, as a believer in the "if it isn't broken don't mess with it" credo, I don't want to tinker with a 'diet' that allows me to eat anything I feel like eating.

Did I mention pizza -- smothered in several different meats, peppers, onions, gobs of cheese? Or "coney islands" -- beef hot dogs smothered in Greek chili, mustard, relish, onions and shredded cheddar cheese?

Whoops, I just realized this isn't the Food thread. If you'll excuse me ... I'm hungry again for more meat ... just finished second breakfast (thank you Hobbits) about 30 minutes ago.

As an aside, considering the moral conundrum that some people associate with eating meat, I wonder if the carrot beings on The Thing's planet might be having similar discussions in "Are you a carnivore??" threads.

 

[Curious3141]

Vegetarian. Lacto-ovo. But have been off the ovo for a few months.