Belgium: PA textbooks not anti-Semitic

[Townsend]

On other forums I've been to, you so much as mention the word 'Jew' and you'll get every manner of wild world domination conspiracy theories.

That does not surprise me at all...it's incredible what people will come up with from time to time.

 

[Evo]

Hey, if a thread about the bombing of London can turn into a thread accusing England and America of being responsible in an effort to incur public support of their wars, does this really surprise you? On other forums I've been to, you so much as mention the word 'Jew' and you'll get every manner of wild world domination conspiracy theories.

I actually would prefer to discuss the sugar issue.

I was reading one of the crank conspiracy theories on crank.net earlier today.

 

[Happeh]

Can't do, but I can tell you that I first cut sugar out of my diet upon leaving high school. I didn't feel any different.

Then you have to approach the experiment differently. If you have already cut the sugar out of your diet, then you just do the opposite to see if I might be onto something. For the next 6 months eat lots of sugar every day and record how you are emotionally and intellectually. If you get worse than you are now, wouldn't that back up my contention?

It seems obvious to me but if you don't eat sugar maybe it isn't obvious. Has anyone ever eaten something like a big fat piece of cheese cake? It is so rich that your head literally starts whirling and you get hot and flushed? I can't think when I feel like that. Maybe other people could I guess.

Maybe the biology forum would be the place to present this little hypothesis of yours. There have been several interesting discussions there of a possible genetic origin of the intelligence of Ashkenazi Jews. Intriguingly enough, they actually had published studies in reputable journals to back up that hypothesis. I'm sorry if I'm not overly impressed by your 2+2 analysis leading to the conclusion that Jews are involved in a conspiracy to hold down the western world by feeding them sugar. If that's the case, why do Ashkenazi Jews also have a higher collective IQ than any group of people in the non-western world?

I told you. They have a correct view of the body. The bodyview presented to regular people in the west is wrong if you want to become powerful and smart. I also was very specific when I said one of the things suppressing intelligence was the sugar thing. You are making it sound like I said sugar was the one and only thing between being a regular person and a nobel person. That is not what I said at all.

The body view put forward that people are supposed to be incredibly thin is another part of the story. Being incredibly thin will make you sick. It will make it so that your brain does not function properly. Yet that body view is put forward as the ideal body view for any person who wants to be an accepted person in society.

I would have shared your epiphany and thought "well there you go, this must mean Jews are conspiring to make the rest of the world stupid." Alas, it never happened. Then again, maybe part of the reason I consider myself intelligent in the first place is that I'm not particularly prone to wild leaps of provincial logic. It takes extraordinary evidence to convince me of an extraordinary claim. I'm like a courtroom in that sense.

You are phrasing what I said in a way that is not accurate. You make it sound like I said sugar, then jumped to, as you write, "jews". That is as silly as it sounds. A thoughtful person would consider the fact that leaders of society determine the direction of that society. A person who was a leader in the food area of society would direct society towards the foods it should eat. If a person was to gain control of the leadership of the food segment of society, ie the corporations producting the food, they could implement any diet they wanted to for the populace.

If a bad person was to gain corporate control the food manufacturing plants, they could, using their knowledge that sugar affects the spleen and makes it so people cannot think, purposefully add high amounts of sugar to all food that was produced. Just a few people in the control of the corporations have sabotaged the entire populace of a country.

I see you have a hard time with this idea. Let me present you with anecdotal evidence that my claim is correct.

Who are the smartest or most accomplished people in the USA school systems?

Asians. Specifically Chinese.

Whose medical theory did I say tells people to stay away from sugar or they won't be able to think? Chinese. Chinese medical theory from China for Chinese people says don't eat too much sugar or you won't be able to think. And just coincidentally, these chinese people are the top students in the entire country of the USA.

If you were to talk to these chinese people, you would find they eat much more salt than you would expect. It is another one of those false body views that are promulgated to keep people powerless. Chinese medicine says people should eat lots of salt. Western medicine says no salt.

Using your own two eyes, who usually looks stronger and healthier? A sugar eating American or a salt eating Asian? Sugar eating Americans look fat, slow and unhealthy. Asians look thin, energetic and usually are exploding with healthy energy.

 

[The Smoking Man]

I have to agree, those links did not corroborate Happeh's claims. Not to mention the sites - biofeedback.com? The Guardian?

It was found that diet restrictions helped about 5 percent of children with ADHD, mostly young children who had food allergies.3 A more recent study on the effect of sugar on children, using sugar one day and a sugar substitute on alternate days, without parents, staff, or children knowing which substance was being used, showed no significant effects of the sugar on behavior or learning.4

LOL,

Do you pretend to be a scientist in your spare time?

Alternate days?

How long does it take a substance to clear your system?

You lose credibility each time you put your fingers on the keys.

What is it Evo ... Big Sugar supporting Bush again quashed all sense of scientific principal and common sense?

You attack sites instead of fact now?

 

[The Smoking Man]

And, no were not going to get into a sugar debate in this thread, that would belong in biology.

I also note that Evo has done it again ... declared herself the winner and banned further debate on the issue.

Yet another 'prize mentor' with all the sense of fairness of a fascist.

 

[Art]

I also note that Evo has done it again ... declared herself the winner and banned further debate on the issue.

Yet another 'prize mentor' with all the sense of fairness of a fascist.

I understood it is the political support for the sugar industry that was being discussed here??
Perhaps Evo is another who has fallen prey to the pro-sugar propaganda industry. As for fairness; one wonders if it is ethical that super mentors contribute to discussions in the political forum whilst exercising censorship and sanction over other posters to the same discussion but as was pointed out to me recently by one of the super mentors "this is their forum to do with as they wish" I suppose fairness doesn't come into it.
Meanwhile here is a dissenting view;

Refined Sugar: The Sweetest poison of All
Why Sugar Is Toxic To The Body
In 1957, Dr. William Coda Martin tried to answer the question: When is a food a food and when is it a poison? His working definition of "poison" was: "Medically: Any substance applied to the body, ingested or developed within the body, which causes or may cause disease. Physically: Any substance which inhibits the activity of a catalyst which is a minor substance, chemical or enzyme that activates a reaction."1 The dictionary gives an even broader definition for "poison": "to exert a harmful influence on, or to pervert".

Dr. Martin classified refined sugar as a poison because it has been depleted of its life forces, vitamins and minerals. "What is left consists of pure, refined carbohydrates. The body cannot utilize this refined starch and carbohydrate unless the depleted proteins, vitamins and minerals are present. Nature supplies these elements in each plant in quantities sufficient to metabolize the carbohydrate in that particular plant. There is no excess for other added carbohydrates. Incomplete carbohydrate metabolism results in the formation of 'toxic metabolite' such as pyruvic acid and abnormal sugars containing five carbon atoms. Pyruvic acid accumulates in the brain and nervous system and the abnormal sugars in the red blood cells. These toxic metabolites interfere with the respiration of the cells. They cannot get sufficient oxygen to survive and function normally. In time, some of the cells die. This interferes with the function of a part of the body and is the beginning of degenerative disease."

Shipwrecked sailors who ate and drank nothing but sugar and rum for nine days surely went through some of this trauma; the tales they had to tell created a big public relations problem for the sugar pushers. This incident occurred when a vessel carrying a cargo of sugar was shipwrecked in 1793. The five surviving sailors were finally rescued after being marooned for nine days. They were in a wasted condition due to starvation, having consumed nothing but sugar and rum. The eminent French physiologist F. Magendie was inspired by that incident to conduct a series of experiments with animals, the results of which he published in 1816. In the experiments, he fed dogs a diet of sugar or olive oil and water. All the dogs wasted and died.3

The shipwrecked sailors and the French physiologist's experimental dogs proved the same point. As a steady diet, sugar is worse than nothing. Plain water can keep you alive for quite some time. Sugar and water can kill you. Humans [and animals] are "unable to subsist on a diet of sugar".4 The dead dogs in Professor Magendie's laboratory alerted the sugar industry to the hazards of free scientific inquiry. From that day to this, the sugar industry has invested millions of dollars in behind-the-scenes, subsidized science. The best scientific names that money could buy have been hired, in the hope that they could one day come up with something at least pseudoscientific in the way of glad tidings about sugar.

It has been proved, however, that (1) sugar is a major factor in dental decay; (2) sugar in a person's diet does cause overweight; (3) removal of sugar from diets has cured symptoms of crippling, worldwide diseases such as diabetes, cancer and heart illnesses. Sir Frederick Banting, the codiscoverer of insulin, noticed in 1929 in Panama that, among sugar plantation owners who ate large amounts of their refined stuff, diabetes was common. Among native cane-cutters, who only got to chew the raw cane, he saw no diabetes. However, the story of the public relations attempts on the part of the sugar manufacturers began in Britain in 1808 when the Committee of West India reported to the House of Commons that a prize of twenty-five guineas had been offered to anyone who could come up with the most "satisfactory" experiments to prove that unrefined sugar was good for feeding and fattening oxen, cows, hogs and sheep.

http://www.ghchealth.com/refined-sugar-the-sweetest-poison-of-all.html

 

[Art]

I have to agree, those links did not corroborate Happeh's claims. Not to mention the sites - biofeedback.com? The Guardian?

Here is a credible response -

You are joking I presume

Food Additives and Sugar.

It has been suggested that attention disorders are caused by refined sugar or food additives, or that symptoms of ADHD are exacerbated by sugar or food additives. In 1982, the National Institutes of Health held a scientific consensus conference to discuss this issue. It was found that diet restrictions helped about 5 percent of children with ADHD, mostly young children who had food allergies.3 A more recent study on the effect of sugar on children, using sugar one day and a sugar substitute on alternate days, without parents, staff, or children knowing which substance was being used, showed no significant effects of the sugar on behavior or learning.4

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/adhd.cfm#cause

If a study were to be conducted wherein a group smokes cigarettes only on alternate days and if a high proportion of the study group still develop cancer does this prove that smoking does not cause cancer?

 

[loseyourname]

Then you have to approach the experiment differently. If you have already cut the sugar out of your diet, then you just do the opposite to see if I might be onto something. For the next 6 months eat lots of sugar every day and record how you are emotionally and intellectually. If you get worse than you are now, wouldn't that back up my contention?

Don't you get it, Happeh? I'm not disputing your contention that sugar is bad. I can't stand sugar.

It seems obvious to me but if you don't eat sugar maybe it isn't obvious.

It seems obvious to me that you overuse the word 'obvious.'

The body view put forward that people are supposed to be incredibly thin is another part of the story. Being incredibly thin will make you sick. It will make it so that your brain does not function properly. Yet that body view is put forward as the ideal body view for any person who wants to be an accepted person in society.

How thin? Nobody is telling you to be a rail. Ironically enough, if you load your diet with sugary foods, chances are you won't be thin. In case you hadn't noticed as well, the average American is one of the fattest persons on the planet. Don't think there's any conspiracy here; just whacked out cultural norms where the diet doesn't match the desired body type.

If a bad person was to gain corporate control the food manufacturing plants, they could, using their knowledge that sugar affects the spleen and makes it so people cannot think, purposefully add high amounts of sugar to all food that was produced. Just a few people in the control of the corporations have sabotaged the entire populace of a country.

Sabotage? You don't suppose it might have something to do with the fact that sugar tastes good and is cheap to manufacture?

You see, this is where I have a problem. Where is the evidence of world-wide Jewish conspiracy that you presented? Are Jews in charge of the soft drink industry? The fast food industry? The supermarkets? The advertising industry? They'd need to be in charge of all of these and the sugar industry itself, and arguably the FDA, just to be capable of the conspiracy you're suggesting. And not just in the US, either, but in the entire western world. Heck, even if all these industries were run by Jews, does being a Jew automatically mean that you're hooked into a worldwide network of Jews that coordinate all of their business plans so as to plot the destruction of the Gentile world? Does it occur to you how whacky and paranoid that sounds?

I can almost guarantee you one thing. Jewish or not, all of these industries are probably run by white males. In fact, I would venture the guess that just about all industries are run by white males. Does that mean there is a conspiracy of white males plotting to destroy everyone else?

I see you have a hard time with this idea. Let me present you with anecdotal evidence that my claim is correct.

If you were to talk to these chinese people, you would find they eat much more salt than you would expect. It is another one of those false body views that are promulgated to keep people powerless. Chinese medicine says people should eat lots of salt. Western medicine says no salt.

Now there's a conspiracy of western doctors working to keep people powerless? Or do Jews control the medical industry now too?

By the way, back in China, cretinism is a huge problem, especially in the western and southern provinces. Iodized salt solves that problem and is thus an extremely important staple of their diet.

Sugar eating Americans look fat, slow and unhealthy. Asians look thin, energetic and usually are exploding with healthy energy.

Where? I've lived most of my life in or around Los Angeles and San Francisco, which boast two of the largest Chinese communities in the US. I've never noticed that the Chinese people look any different in body type from the average whites walking around. Maybe that's just coastal California, though - everybody tries to stay looking good. Oh, but you said keeping thin is another thing designed to keep us powerless. All those damn Jewish fashion moguls.

Hey, here's some anecdotal evidence for you? Remember the first rail-thin model (other than Twiggy) that really made super-thin chic? It was Kate Moss. Who did she model for? Calvin Klein? A Jew! God, they're everywhere and they're out to get us. Can't they just be happy with having all the money?

 

[vanesch]

A Jew! God, they're everywhere and they're out to get us. Can't they just be happy with having all the money?

Vee sjould solve zat pfroblem vance and vor all ! A kind of vinal zolution...

 

[Yonoz]

I cannot believe that sugar argument is being discussed seriously. Come on - Jews taking over the world with sugar??!
Reading this thread brings me back to history classes at school and conversations with my late grandparents.
Nevertheless, I'm happy to have witnessed this new display of the old pseudo-scientific antisemitism. It makes me understand no matter how just and fair we try to be, the hatred will forever remain.
I am even more surprised at the weak response to happeh's comments. I know art and bilal are prejudiced, but where are the masses who display their humanity so boldly whenever the latest scandal involving the US is discussed?
It's this mix of hatred and non-caringness that makes me realize we are perpetually threatened, and that we can never rely on anyone to protect us. Dilemmas I have had in the past regarding the lengths of conformity I have gone to in my service of my country are very clear cut at moments like this. You can criticize Israel, Zionism and Judaism all you like, but keep in mind the threats we face even today, when a venomous comment of the sort of happeh's should never have been made in such a "self-respecting" community.

 

[vanesch]

You can criticize Israel, Zionism and Judaism all you like, but keep in mind the threats we face even today, when a venomous comment of the sort of happeh's should never have been made in such a "self-respecting" community.

BTW, how does one "qualify as a Jew" ? Clearly there are non-religious Jews, so it is not a purely religious concept, such as a Christian or a Muslim. I could, if I wanted, become a Muslim. I don't know if I "can become a Jew".
Is it an etnicity ? What happens then with mixed marriages ? Given your diaspora, you should have "dissolved your genetic material" since long in all the populations you've been mixing with. Or don't you guys (and girls) mix ? Are you a different biological species then ?

 

[Yonoz]

BTW, how does one "qualify as a Jew" ? Clearly there are non-religious Jews, so it is not a purely religious concept, such as a Christian or a Muslim. I could, if I wanted, become a Muslim. I don't know if I "can become a Jew".
Is it an etnicity ? What happens then with mixed marriages ? Given your diaspora, you should have "dissolved your genetic material" since long in all the populations you've been mixing with. Or don't you guys (and girls) mix ? Are you a different biological species then ?

Since its beginning, Judaism has split into several groups. Some are more orthodox than others. You may also look at Judaism in the narrow religious aspect or in the broader cultural aspect. As far as the narrow, religious view, which is also the basis of Israeli law, you're Jewish if you were born to a Jewish mother or you have completed a process of indoctrination into the Jewish faith. Unfortunately, the varying levels of devoutness between the different groups in Judaism are a cause for disagreement - if you take this process in a reform community an orthodox Jew may not consider you truly Jewish. I am not familiar with the nuances of this problem but will look into it if you wish to know more. I have met quite a few people that have become Jewish, mostly in reform and orthodox communities in the diaspora.
The ultra-orthodox communities will not allow mixed marriages. I suppose in laxer communities there would be specific cases where a parent would object strongly to a mixed marriage. Reform communities should have no problem with mixed marriages.
Modern Judaism in its many forms is the product of 2 millenia in the diaspora. The emphasis on the community and its survival was made very strong in Jewish customs, particularly in European communities that suffered much hatred compared to those in North Africa and other Arab countries. No one can say with certainty how much mixing there was over that time, and I suppose it doesn't really matter to most Jews (and antisemites). There were a few genetic studies that I'm sure you can find if you spare the time that show genetic links among Jews. There are also unique Jewish genetic diseases. There is also a genetic link in descendents of the Levi tribe. It can be traced because their surnames - Levi and Cohen - were kept since their formation.

 

[The Smoking Man]

Jewish genetic diseases. There is also a genetic link in descendents of the Levi tribe. It can be traced because their surnames - Levi and Cohen - were kept since their formation.

Oh, I can't resist ... You mean Levi's Genes?

 

[vanesch]

As far as the narrow, religious view, which is also the basis of Israeli law, you're Jewish if you were born to a Jewish mother or you have completed a process of indoctrination into the Jewish faith.

Ah, so if I can convince my mother (or my mother's mother, but she's dead - guess that won't work) to accept Jewish faith, I can obtain Israeli nationality as a christian born atheist ?

No, seriously, I didn't know one could *become* a Jew. Maybe a useful thing to do if I want to make a career in the sugar industry - I'll have a talk with my mother

All kidding apart, I always wondered what it meant to be, say, a German or Russian Jew, because it clearly is wider than the religious part. Feynman clearly was a Jew, but an atheist. So Jewishness is apparently a conserved quantum number and a well-defined observable, but I had a hard time tracking this back. Hey, maybe I *am* a Jew, after all, if the mother of my mother of my mother of ... etc... was Jewish. How can one know ?

 

[Art]

I cannot believe that sugar argument is being discussed seriously. Come on - Jews taking over the world with sugar??!
Reading this thread brings me back to history classes at school and conversations with my late grandparents.
Nevertheless, I'm happy to have witnessed this new display of the old pseudo-scientific antisemitism. It makes me understand no matter how just and fair we try to be, the hatred will forever remain.
I am even more surprised at the weak response to happeh's comments. I know art and bilal are prejudiced, but where are the masses who display their humanity so boldly whenever the latest scandal involving the US is discussed?
It's this mix of hatred and non-caringness that makes me realize we are perpetually threatened, and that we can never rely on anyone to protect us. Dilemmas I have had in the past regarding the lengths of conformity I have gone to in my service of my country are very clear cut at moments like this. You can criticize Israel, Zionism and Judaism all you like, but keep in mind the threats we face even today, when a venomous comment of the sort of happeh's should never have been made in such a "self-respecting" community.

I have never made an anti-semitic comment ever, and very much resent your claim to the contrary! I expect an apology forthwith.

 

[Happeh]

You see, this is where I have a problem. Where is the evidence of world-wide Jewish conspiracy that you presented? Are Jews in charge of the soft drink industry? The fast food industry? The supermarkets? The advertising industry? They'd need to be in charge of all of these and the sugar industry itself, and arguably the FDA, just to be capable of the conspiracy you're suggesting.

This is not accurate. You need the political top job that orders the FDA to say what it does. The White House can order the FDA to say whatever the White House wants. After that you really don't need anything. Once the government tells people sugar is good, they will eat it up. They are in charge of all the other places you mentioned to reap the profits.

And not just in the US, either, but in the entire western world. Heck, even if all these industries were run by Jews, does being a Jew automatically mean that you're hooked into a worldwide network of Jews that coordinate all of their business plans so as to plot the destruction of the Gentile world? Does it occur to you how whacky and paranoid that sounds?

Sure. Israel controls the USA/Cananda/Australia/Britain and most of Europe except for France. They should gain control of France during the next election when they elect the Hungarian Jew Sarkozy as president of France.

Yes being a jew means you are automatically hooked into a worldwide network of jews that coordinate business for the destruction of the gentile world. Why is it wacky and paranoid? Seems like a logical and militarily sound plan for world domination.

I can almost guarantee you one thing. Jewish or not, all of these industries are probably run by white males. In fact, I would venture the guess that just about all industries are run by white males. Does that mean there is a conspiracy of white males plotting to destroy everyone else?

A conspiracy by white males to keep power and profits for white males. Yes. Your outrage will not change anything. This is what every human power structure in every human society on Earth does. Manipulate the society so they stay on top at the expense of others.

Now there's a conspiracy of western doctors working to keep people powerless? Or do Jews control the medical industry now too?

Yes jews control the medical industry. The majority of western doctors do not need to knowingly be involved. Just as the FDA can say sugar is good and everything else takes care of itself, the medical colleges can teach false health advice. The innocent western doctors who think they are doing good according to what they are taught then go out and make people sick with false health advice. It is like infecting people with a bioweapon. Infect one person with the bioweapon. That person goes on to kill everyone he comes in contact with. He didn't know he was an agent of the bioweapon. That doesn't matter. He was still part of the plot to kill people with bioweapons.

Where? I've lived most of my life in or around Los Angeles and San Francisco, which boast two of the largest Chinese communities in the US. I've never noticed that the Chinese people look any different in body type from the average whites walking around.

Then you are not an observant person. Perhaps it takes training and experience to see it.

 

[Happeh]

I cannot believe that sugar argument is being discussed seriously. Come on - Jews taking over the world with sugar??!

Why are people purposefully obtuse? The only reason that makes sense is to throw up smokescreens. What happened to honest discussion?

For instance. I am going to invade Iraq. Am I going to send soldiers only? No. Am I going to drop bombs only? No. Am I going to do it by myself? No.

It is trivial that any large plan includes many different methods. What I said is that the large use of sugar in western cultures only makes sense to me if it is part of a plot to sicken people in the west. The western governments are fully aware of Chinese medicine. If they are aware that Chinese medicince says sugar is a poison, why do they say that sugar is fine for people to eat?

There is only one reason to my mind. Someone is doing it knowing what the results will be. Just like Merck sold Vioxx knowing that it caused heart attacks in people. Their plot was to make money. Part of the plot was to bribe the FDA. Part of the plot was to falsify studies. They knowingly made people sick to make money. If that is true, why is it so hard to accept that people bent on world domination would make people sick on purpose? World dominators would be more evil and less caring than even corporate CEO's willing to kill people for money.

Nevertheless, I'm happy to have witnessed this new display of the old pseudo-scientific antisemitism. It makes me understand no matter how just and fair we try to be, the hatred will forever remain.

If someone rapes a women, the society does not like the rapist. If someone steals from a store, the society does not like the robber. If someone murders another person, the society does not like the murderer. It has nothing to do with hatred. It has to do with bad people breaking the laws of society.

When a people decide that they will do anything, murder, drug dealing, lying, stealing, raping, torture, in pursuit of a goal, society does not like these people. Not because they hate them but because they have broken societies laws. Because they hurt other human beings.

To show exactly how silly your positions is, what do you think would be the result if the rapist or robber or murderer said "You are only putting me in jail because you hate me?" People would rightly realize these are manipulative statements by an evil person facing punishment. Judges hear these kinds of statements all the time. Then they go right ahead and sentence the criminal as he should be sentenced so he does no further harm to society.

I am even more surprised at the weak response to happeh's comments.

Here it comes. Time to rally the lynch mob. Every pro Isreali person on the internet follows a set pattern of attack. They each get a little handout that tells them how to vanquish enemies of israel. The handout says to "act outraged at accusations about Israel". Yes, you did that. Next on the list is "call opponents anti semites". Yes. You did that. Next is to accuse the person of being a hater. Yes you did that. Next is "rally the community to form a lynch mob to attack and get rid of the enemy of Israel". Yes you are doing that now.

It's this mix of hatred and non-caringness that makes me realize we are perpetually threatened, and that we can never rely on anyone to protect us.

You are perpetually threatened because you perpetually disregard the laws of various countries. You perpetually manipulate people and countries so that your fellows live the high life while everyone else lives the low life. You can never rely on anyone to protect you because there is no honor among thieves. You have no friends because you have betrayed every country that allowed you to stay. Yes I know you will be screaming hatred. This is historical fact that can be dredged up and gone thru.

You can criticize Israel, Zionism and Judaism all you like, but keep in mind the threats we face even today, when a venomous comment of the sort of happeh's should never have been made in such a "self-respecting" community.

Do you think it worked? Do you think they feel shamed? I hope they are intelligent enough to see psychological and emotional manipulation when it bites them on the booty.

I cannot prove what I say. I do not have an organization and unlimited funds with which to perform an investigation. According to historical precedent, my studies and my familiarity with politics and the attitudes and actions of Israelis and human beings in general, my statements are a reasonable conclusion for what I see. If someone can put forth a more reasonable explanation that is believable, I have no problem admitting that I am wrong.

 

[Happeh]

I have never made an anti-semitic comment ever, and very much resent your claim to the contrary! I expect an apology forthwith.

You are dreaming. When was the last time you heard Ariel Sharon apologize for anything?

One of the secrets of power is to never apologize.

No one voluntarily gives up power unless they are unaware of the concept of personal power. Most Israelis base their lives around the concept of personal power. It is part of their culture.

 

[Art]

Undoubtedly big business lobbies for legislation favourable to itself and some of the more unscrupulous will do just about anything to make an extra buck. Over time many products have been found to be injurious to health, cigarettes, alcohol, butter, eggs, meat and of course sugar to name but a few. The people who's livlihoods depend on maintaining a demand for these products obviously do their best to obfuscate negative research whilst spending heavily on marketing to try and continue selling their products. This is simply what businesses do. To suggest this is all part of a world domination plot by the Jews is blatantly racist and patently ridiculous for a myriad of practical reasons which I am not even going to bother getting into.

 

[vanesch]

I cannot prove what I say. I do not have an organization and unlimited funds with which to perform an investigation. According to historical precedent, my studies and my familiarity with politics and the attitudes and actions of Israelis and human beings in general, my statements are a reasonable conclusion for what I see. If someone can put forth a more reasonable explanation that is believable, I have no problem admitting that I am wrong.

The problems with your statements are that you can replace "Jew" and "Israel" with:
- Whites and America
- Arabs and Saoudi-Arabia
- Chinese and China
- Mafiosi and Italy
- dolphins and Alpha Centauri

and they have almost equal validity ; moreover, what you do has been done in the past, and has resulted several times in genocide. It is the typical xenophobia hatred talk. How the hell is someone supposed to defend himself against such charges ?
Now, the number of times Jews especially have suffered exactly such genocide because they were the "conspirators" (hey, they were even found guilty of being at the origin of the bubonic plague in the 14th century!) is almost uncountable. They are the perfect target for such hatred speech, and it almost always works. "Did you burn your Jew today? " Unfortunately for people like you, they also seem to be indestructible.

 

[vanesch]

Sure. Israel controls the USA/Cananda/Australia/Britain and most of Europe except for France. They should gain control of France during the next election when they elect the Hungarian Jew Sarkozy as president of France.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolas_Sarkozy#Origins

So the conversion of Sarkozy's GRANDFATHER to catholicism in the beginning of the 20th century was part of the plot to hide the political takeover by Jews that would take place by his grandson 105 years later ?



BTW, his grandMOTHER was of French catholic origin, so the "jewish" line was broken anyway, which means that Nicolas Sarkozy is NOT a Jew, according to the definition that has been given here.
But then, that's probably just part of the plot. The Dolphins are everywhere !

 

[vanesch]

Sure. Israel controls the USA/Cananda/Australia/Britain and most of Europe except for France.

I didn't know Blairfinger and Schroedermann were Jews ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Blair

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerhard_Schröder

 

[loseyourname]

Then you are not an observant person. Perhaps it takes training and experience to see it.

24 years of checking out just about every person that walks by me and I've never noticed a difference. Do you happen to have mass:height ratios by declared ethnicity statistics for these cities or are you just talking out of your ass? I was a portrait artist for five years, so I'd like to think that I have an especially acute eye for body types. I suppose you know best, though.

 

[The Smoking Man]

24 years of checking out just about every person that walks by me and I've never noticed a difference. Do you happen to have mass:height ratios by declared ethnicity statistics for these cities or are you just talking out of your ass? I was a portrait artist for five years, so I'd like to think that I have an especially acute eye for body types. I suppose you know best, though.

Could I respectfully invite you to any Chinese City?

I find that the Chinese community in the USA and the rest of the west has to a certain extent not necessarily 'drunk the koolaid' but they are sipping.

The only 'lard asses' in suzhou would include me in their number and I was given a clean bill of health in my anual check-up for visa purposes which includes a complete blood collesterol work-up and the like.

A lot of contemporaries here refer to returning to Australia (which has a healthier physique than America) as 'going back to the land of the grazing beasts' and cringes at the thought of 'sheilas'.

We are indeed spoiled.

 

[Happeh]

I didn't know Blairfinger and Schroedermann were Jews ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Blair

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerhard_Schröder

You will notice I did not include Germany in my list. I do not read German so I cannot know what is going on in their country.

Tony Blair is an Israeli tool. He singlehandedly talked the world into allowing the USA to invade Iraq on Israel's behalf. The man should win an award for liar of the century. They should put statues of him up in Israel for removing Saddam for them.

 

[Happeh]

24 years of checking out just about every person that walks by me and I've never noticed a difference. Do you happen to have mass:height ratios by declared ethnicity statistics for these cities or are you just talking out of your ass? I was a portrait artist for five years, so I'd like to think that I have an especially acute eye for body types. I suppose you know best, though.

I know what I see. I know that on average, Asians are incredibly more healthy than the majority of westerners. Just looking at people is not enough if you do not know what you are looking at.

 

[Happeh]

To suggest this is all part of a world domination plot by the Jews is blatantly racist and patently ridiculous for a myriad of practical reasons which I am not even going to bother getting into.

It is not racist. If there is a conspiracy by a group of people, these people must be labeled in some manner in order to identify them to the other people you are talking to.

It is a master stroke of genius to make it socially unacceptable to talk about these people.

How could people talk about traitors or treason if someone trains society to attack anyone who says those two words?

You and most other people are trained to attack anyone who says "Isrealis are to blame for...". You are programmed to react unthinkingly. If someone say any other race on the planet or any other countries citizens on the planet, no one reacts with the same vehemence they do when the word "Israelis" is brought up. They have not been trained to react to any other words.

The Israelis can then go ahead and act in any way they please because they know anyone exposing what they are up to will be set upon by his programmed fellows. In France or Germany, the will actually put you in jail if you openly discuss the number of Israelis killed in WWII.

What better way to stop discussion of how many were killed than to throw people in jail for it? No one will ever know the truth because they cannot even bring up the words or topics for discussion.

The point being here. Truth does not need censorship to be victorius. If there really were 6 million Isrealis killed in WWII, there would be no reason to throw people in jail for openly talking about the issue. It is only if the figure is a lie, propaganda planted to control Germany and garner the sympathy of kind people around the world, that it would be necessary to put people in jail so they can never discover the lie.

If Israel does not control the USA, there is no reason for people to go around talking about racist this or that. The facts would show the claim was false or true. Because the claim is true, people must be prevented from bringing up the facts so that it becomes common knowledge in the majority of society.

 

[oranje]

Happeh, No israeli was killed during WWII - Israel was founded in 1948.

 

[The Smoking Man]

The Israelis can then go ahead and act in any way they please because they know anyone exposing what they are up to will be set upon by his programmed fellows. In France or Germany, the will actually put you in jail if you openly discuss the number of Israelis killed in WWII.

What better way to stop discussion of how many were killed than to throw people in jail for it? No one will ever know the truth because they cannot even bring up the words or topics for discussion.

The point being here. Truth does not need censorship to be victorius. If there really were 6 million Isrealis killed in WWII, there would be no reason to throw people in jail for openly talking about the issue.

LOL

Besides the obvious that has already pointed out to you 'that Israel did not exist in WWII', the charge in Germany is about 'Holocost DENIAL' not 'openly talking about the Holocost'.

In fact, if you go to germany, you can visit extermination camps themselves and be taken on guided tours.

You can even watch movies about WWII.

I think you got the wrong end of the stick somewhere along the line.

 

[loseyourname]

Could I respectfully invite you to any Chinese City?

I find that the Chinese community in the USA and the rest of the west has to a certain extent not necessarily 'drunk the koolaid' but they are sipping.

I was only referring to the communities in Los Angeles and San Francisco. I've never lived for any long periods of time anywhere else, so I make no claims as to what the communities are like elsewhere. I also wasn't saying that the Chinese communities in these cities are fat; rather, I was saying that the non-Asian American communities are not fat. Especially in the summertime, just about everyone in coastal California seems to do a pretty good job of keeping fit.

 

[Happeh]

LOL

Besides the obvious that has already pointed out to you 'that Israel did not exist in WWII', the charge in Germany is about 'Holocost DENIAL' not 'openly talking about the Holocost'.

In fact, if you go to germany, you can visit extermination camps themselves and be taken on guided tours.

I think you got the wrong end of the stick somewhere along the line.

Mr Smoking Man. I can see you are an intelligent person. You should not need my guidance. I think that if you look at some of the editing done by the forums software on some of the words in peoples sentences in this thread, you will understand why I use the word I do.

I can go to Cambodia and check out the killing fields also. Do you think I will be able to tell how many died in my day long tour of the area? Of course people died. The lies are in the numbers and slanted descriptions of what happened. Can you tell me off the top of your head how many German's died in WWII? Of course not. There is no world wide propaganda organization pushing the number of German's killed. What about French, Gypsies, British, Italians, Americans, Australians, Japanese, Chinese or any other group? Got their number of WWII war dead at your fingertips? No. Those numbers do not further Israeli political goals of world domination. There is no reason to start a propaganda campaign to tell people those numbers.


Did you know that I work for Karma? Ya. I say something and the next day Karma provides me with links to reinforce what I said. I love to tell people that because there is a certain kind of person who explodes when they read a comment like that. They run up and down the sidewalk yelling and gesticulating about how funny that comment is. I just smile and watch them carry on. One of these days they will find out for themselves. Then I get to walk up to them and say "See? I told you so".

I said the Israelis have made it illegal to talk about them or their propaganda. I said this was a very smart way to stop people from discussing their world domination plans. Today Karma gives me this.

"German prosecutors said yesterday they have charged white supremacist Ernst Zundel with inciting racial hatred, four months after he was deported from Canada.

German authorities accuse Zundel of decades of anti-Semitic activities, including repeated denials of the Holocaust - a crime in Germany - in documents and on the Internet. Zundel is "known internationally as a leader of the right-wing scene," prosecutors in the southwestern city of Mannheim said yesterday. "

Talk about Israeli propganda, go to jail.

 

[Happeh]

I was only referring to the communities in Los Angeles and San Francisco. I've never lived for any long periods of time anywhere else, so I make no claims as to what the communities are like elsewhere. I also wasn't saying that the Chinese communities in these cities are fat; rather, I was saying that the non-Asian American communities are not fat. Especially in the summertime, just about everyone in coastal California seems to do a pretty good job of keeping fit.

Westernized Chinese as well as members of other Asian countries that live in the West are contaminated by western culture. They are starting down the slow road of de evolution. They do not resemble their counterparts living natively in the Asian countries. The Westernized Asians will not look so superior to Native Western people as the Native Asians do.

 

[Happeh]

I forgot something. That Ernst Zundel? He lived in Canada. Canda has free speech laws. Mr Zundel could say as he pleases. Guess what happened?

The Isrealis in control of Canada had him deported to Germany where they knew his type of speech was outlawed. 3 months later Mr Zundel is charged with crimes right according to plan.

Here are the Canadian Israelis thanking the Germans for carrying out their orders properly. Then giving the Germans their new orders.


"The Canadian Jewish Congress said it was glad to hear Zundel had been charged, but said justice will not be served fully until he is convicted.

"Certainly we're very pleased that German prosecutors have charged Mr. Zundel," spokesman Len Rudner said from Toronto.

"But it's a successful prosecution that will go a long way to completely discrediting Ernst Zundel."


Look at the timeline to see how the Israeli World Dominators used their control of the USA and Canada to persecute this man.

The man is living in the USA and running a website that denies the WWII Israeli deaths. That is not illegal in the USA. It is illegal in Germany. They can put him in jail in Germany. How do they get the man from the USA to Germany?

First Germany charges the man with a crime. He lives in the USA but since his website is visible in Germany, he broke German law. Pay attention. Your website in your country can be used to ship you to another country and thrown in that countries jail.

With the new terrorism laws, the USA can force anyone out of the country on trumped up charges. They force the man out of the USA and back to Canada. The man was never a citizen of Canada. There is a warrant for his arrest in Germany. Germany has an extradition treaty with Canada. Voila! This man is sent to Germany where he is charged with crimes.

From the USA to jail in Germany, courtesy of the Israelis in control of the USA,Canada and Europe.

Born in Germany in 1939, Zundel emigrated to Canada in 1958 and lived in Toronto and Montreal until 2001. Canadian officials rejected his attempts to obtain citizenship in 1966 and 1994.

He moved to Pigeon Forge, Tenn., until he was deported to Canada in 2003 for alleged immigration violations.

While Jewish groups in Canada hailed Zundel's deportation, some civil libertarians argued it was a crime against freedom of speech.

"Banning ideas - even foolish ones - is just never healthy," Paul Fromm, the president of the Canadian Association for Freedom of Expression, said Tuesday from Toronto after hearing of Zundel's charges.

"It's very disappointing and it's sad to see the German government has learned nothing about democracy."

German prosecutors obtained an arrest warrant for Zundel in 2003. Because his Holocaust-denying website was available in Germany, he is considered to have been spreading his message to Germans.

 

[hypatia]

Mr Zundel, broke USA immigration laws, he was not a citizen of Canada either. He is a citizen of Germany. Germany issued a warrant for his arrest, so Canada sent him home. Yes, that's the way the world works.

 

[Art]

Can you tell me off the top of your head how many German's died in WWII? Of course not.

I'm sure most people can; it's 3.25m military and 2.44m civilians.

There is no world wide propaganda organization pushing the number of German's killed. What about French, Gypsies, British, Italians, Americans, Australians, Japanese, Chinese or any other group? Got their number of WWII war dead at your fingertips? No. Those numbers do not further Israeli political goals of world domination. There is no reason to start a propaganda campaign to tell people those numbers.

Funnily enough the only one to raise the subject of the number of jews killed in WW2 on this forum is you, which you have now done several times. Are you the architect of the worldwide propaganda that you are complaining about?

Did you know that I work for Karma? Ya. I say something and the next day Karma provides me with links to reinforce what I said. I love to tell people that because there is a certain kind of person who explodes when they read a comment like that. They run up and down the sidewalk yelling and gesticulating about how funny that comment is. I just smile and watch them carry on. One of these days they will find out for themselves. Then I get to walk up to them and say "See? I told you so".

Have you been eating strange mushrooms lately?

I said the Israelis have made it illegal to talk about them or their propaganda. I said this was a very smart way to stop people from discussing their world domination plans. Today Karma gives me this.

"German prosecutors said yesterday they have charged white supremacist Ernst Zundel with inciting racial hatred, four months after he was deported from Canada.

German authorities accuse Zundel of decades of anti-Semitic activities, including repeated denials of the Holocaust - a crime in Germany - in documents and on the Internet. Zundel is "known internationally as a leader of the right-wing scene," prosecutors in the southwestern city of Mannheim said yesterday. "

Talk about Israeli propganda, go to jail.

No, actually it's break the law and go to jail.