Breaking Down the 2016 POTUS Race Contenders & Issues

[OCR]

On the bright side, we know it's a mistake we don't have to worry about her making again.

No, and on the "bright" side, if she stays there, we know she won't make the same mistake again... getting caught .[COLOR=#black]..[/COLOR]Carry on...

 

[jim hardy]

Dallas sure pushed this out of the news cycle, didn't it ?

 

[Astronuc]

Rep. http://hsrd.yahoo.com/RV=1/RE=1469280716/RH=aHNyZC55YWhvby5jb20-/RB=/RU=aHR0cDovL2FiY25ld3MuZ28uY29tL3RvcGljcy9uZXdzL3VzL21hcmstc2FuZm9yZC5odG0A/RS=%5EADAFtQXwdYukMr_Mf.4tiQaF6KcT00- , R-South Carolina, said Trump promised to protect several articles of the Constitution -- including "Article XII," even though the Constitution has seven articles.

"It was the normal stream of consciousness that's long on hyperbole and short on facts," Sanford told reporters after the meeting.

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/donald-trump-says-hell-protect-constitutions-article-xii-065706692--abc-news-topstories.html

 

[Dr Transport]

No, and on the "bright" side, if she stays there, we know she won't make the same mistake again... getting caught .[COLOR=#black]..[/COLOR]Carry on...

never truer words were spoken, in this case typed...

 

[Evo]

Sorry but actual discussions of climate change aren't allowed in this forum, my fault, I posted the clip of Trump because it was funny and all over the place, never thought it would actually start a serious discussion, I have deleted it and the responses.

 

[jim hardy]

I have deleted it and the responses.

I too apologize.

 

[Evo]

I too apologize.

You didn't do anything wrong.

 

[Dotini]

That she isn't leading by 20 points is terrifying. And I don't even like Clinton!

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/287845-democrats-freaked-out-about-polls-in-meeting-with-clinton

Nervous Senate Democrats raised concerns with Hillary Clinton during a private meeting in the Capitol Thursday over a recent poll showing Donald Trump leading or tied in several battleground states.

“Some people were freaked out, they were looking down at the polls on Real Clear Politics and asking why it was so close,” said a Democratic senator who attended the meeting, referring to a website lawmakers were checking out on their personal devices.

Clinton’s response?
“She said there are other issues. People are unhappy and they don’t trust institutions,” the senator explained.

A second Democratic source in the meeting confirmed there was “a mention of the Florida poll.”

A Quinnipiac University poll released this week showed the presumptive GOP presidential nominee up 42 percent to 39 percent in swing-state Florida. Clinton had an 8-point lead in Quinnipiac’s poll of the state last month.

The same survey showed Trump ahead 2 points in Pennsylvania, another big swing state, and tied in Ohio. The three states have been pivotal in the last four presidential elections.

The source emphasized that no one suggested that Clinton wasn’t running a strong race or questioned her performance.

Instead, it was an acknowledgment that the presidential race will be very close even though many Washington-based strategists and pundits across the ideological spectrum question Trump’s seriousness as a candidate.

“There was concern raised about the race because we know it’s going to be a close race,” said the source.

A senior Senate Democratic aide, who was not in the meeting, acknowledged that senators have raised concerns about the closeness of the polls at other times.

“We wouldn't be Democrats if there weren't a few bed-wetters,” the aide said.

 

[Astronuc]

The people of Henry County - hundreds of miles away from the increasingly Democratic-leaning parts of northern Virginia closer to Washington - have long memories. They remember the heyday of the local economy in the 1960s and '70s, when there were so many manufacturing jobs that you could quit one in the morning and have another by after lunch, as the local saying goes.

But then came globalisation, the North American Free Trade Agreement - ratified by potential first husband, former President Bill Clinton - and the textile plants and the furniture factories packed up for Mexico or went belly up. Unemployment hit 20%. When the US was declared officially in a recession in 2008, Henry County residents grumbled that they'd already been in one for 10 years.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36752237

 

[Astronuc]

I don't know much about The Hill, or how accurate its reporting is, but they report "The Trump campaign is still soliciting illegal donations from foreign individuals – including members of foreign governments at their official email addresses — weeks after the campaign was put on notice by watchdog groups."

"Foreign members of parliament from the United Kingdom and Australia confirmed to The Hill that they received fundraising solicitations from the Trump campaign as recently as July 12 — two weeks after a widely publicized FEC complaint issued on June 29 by non-partisan watchdogs Democracy 21 and the Campaign Legal Center."
http://thehill.com/homenews/campaig...ts-illegal-foreign-donations-despite-warnings

So much for being the 'law and order' candidate.

 

[jim hardy]

I don't know much about The Hill, or how accurate its reporting is

At least they use a source that goes after both sides.

Click on their source, the blue highlighted "issued", and it takes you to "Democracy 21"
whose first headline is this

Hillary Clinton Super PAC Accepted $200,000 in Illegal Contributions from Government Contractor

http://www.democracy21.org/money-in...gal-contributions-from-government-contractor/

 

[Evo]

At least they use a source that goes after both sides.

Click on their source, the blue highlighted "issued", and it takes you to "Democracy 21"
whose first headline is this

http://www.democracy21.org/money-in...gal-contributions-from-government-contractor/

The money was returned once it was discovered that it didn't meet all of the requirements, so it's a non-issue, she didn't solicit the money, which is what astro's article about trump is about.

It seems everyone is on the list.

The Hill found 14 federal contractors had contributed a total of $173,250 to Right to Rise, the pro-Bush group. Two contractors also funneled money to a pro-Marco Rubio group, Conservative Solutions PAC.

One federal contractor, a Florida utility company, defended the $44,000 gift to the pro-Bush PAC last year. “We believe Gulf Power’s right to make the contribution in question is constitutionally protected,” Gulf Power spokesman Jeff Rogers said.

A super PAC supporting Mitt Romney, Restore Our Future, also accepted donations from at least five federal contractors amounting to $890,000, the Los Angeles Times found in 2012.

http://nypost.com/2016/06/30/pro-hillary-super-pac-took-200k-in-illegal-donations/

 

[mheslep]

So much for being the 'law and order' candidate.

Has Trump or some commentator ever actually used that phrase to your knowledge, or perhaps a synonym, or was that just something fun to say?

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

This is really tough to watch
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-minutes-trump-pence-republican-ticket/

 

[jim hardy]

Has Trump or some commentator ever actually used that phrase to your knowledge, or perhaps a synonym, or was that just something fun to say?

Trump has said he's the law and Order candidate, i saw the clip last night.

But i have trouble taking seriously the assertion that emails showing up in a politician's inbox indicate serious subterfuge
too many robots out thereAre there copies in Trump's "sent" box ? Or one of his fundraisers' ? Or do they wipe their servers too ?

 

[mheslep]

Trump has said he's the law and Order candidate, i saw the clip last night.
...

I see you and Astro are right, since the VP - Pence announcement he's introduced that language.

 

[gleem]

Tony Schwartz the ghost writer who helped Trump write "The Art of the Deal" is now apologizing for his part.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/19/us/politics/trump-book-tony-schwartz.html

So should we believe him or should be believe all those who have talked with him privately and say that he is a wonder person and not the one who we see publicly?

 

[jim hardy]

So should we believe him or should be believe all those who have talked with him privately and say that he is a wonder person and not the one who we see publicly?

Whichever you did on Swiftboats ?

 

[CalcNerd]

I feel that if we elect Hillary, we deserve better; if we elect Donald, we deserve Donald.
.
I suspect this isn't just my opinion only.

 

[axmls]

Meanwhile, we could be seeing a third-party candidate in the debates. Libertarian Gary Johnson reaches 13% backing in the latest CNN poll: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...on-bill-weld-edit-0720-md-20160719-story.html

15% support in 5 national polls will allow him into the debates. It's worth noting that the libertarian ticket may be the most qualified contenders, with 2 two-term governors. Given the record-high disapproval rating for both republican and democratic candidates, this year seems to be the best possible year for a third party to win, though that is still quite unlikely.

 

[gleem]

With so many unhappy voters looking for alternatives I would think the media would take this opportunity to stir the pot a bit and do the country a service by giving Johnson some attention in the following months.

 

[jim hardy]

With so many unhappy voters looking for alternatives I would think the media would take this opportunity to stir the pot a bit and do the country a service by giving Johnson some attention in the following months.

 

[gleem]

And your point?

 

[axmls]

I don't know that anyone believes Gary Johnson would be a perfect president or that he was a perfect governor. He did have high approval as a republican in a blue state. He did face opposition from the 60% democratic legislature. But he does have a record of cutting taxes and left office with a surplus (from what I can find), and he's a lot more honest than two other candidates who shall remain unnamed

Besides. A couple billion of debt is nothing compared to a nearly useless $20 billion wall.

 

[russ_watters]

With so many unhappy voters looking for alternatives I would think the media would take this opportunity to stir the pot a bit and do the country a service by giving Johnson some attention in the following months.

I think that would depend on what the media wants.

 

[jim hardy]

And your point?

That doesn't look like fiscal balance .

 

[gleem]

I can't seem to draw a significant conclusion from that. It seems irrelevant considering the fiscal policies that Clinton and Trump espouse.

 

[axmls]

That doesn't look like fiscal balance .

A debt chart by itself doesn't convey enough information. There could be a lot of reasons for increased debt--a democratic legislature (60% in Johnson's case), for instance. It could also have been the case that the debt was rising under previous governors but Johnson slowed the growth (but a lot can still happen in 8 years). There's also the fact that Johnson was able to make a lot of tax cuts and left office with a large surplus. There are a lot more variables than "the debt rose, so he's not good in terms of fiscal policy."

The debt has risen under most (all?) presidents. However Johnson at least warrants some looking at given his popularity in a state where he shouldn't be popular (fairly blue state) and for some of his other policies, if one feels they're in line with their own. I say this particularly since Johnson is known for being pretty honest and lacking corruption, which are rare qualities this election cycle.

 

[jim hardy]

I can't seem to draw a significant conclusion from that. It seems irrelevant considering the fiscal policies that Clinton and Trump espouse.

well,, i thought libertarians reduce size of government and cut spending.
Looks like the opposite happened in NM during his tenure, of course i don't live there so just glanced at the stats.
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/spending_chart_1990_2015NMb_17s2li111mcn_F0t

He seems to me a Libertarian in name only.

But if you want to cast a protest vote...,

 

[jim hardy]

I say this particularly since Johnson is known for being pretty honest and lacking corruption, which are rare qualities this election cycle.

That would be a fresh breeze.

 

[gleem]

Johnson has received 13% of the votes in a recent national poll. Two more and he can debate. At least we might get a chance to evaluate him.

 

[axmls]

Looks to me like spending sharply increased after he left office, while it was still gradual during his tenure. That said, this doesn't take into account the population growth of New Mexico at the time. Of course spending will be higher if the state is making more money. Unfortunately it's difficult to see the whole picture, so it's hard to evaluate how well his policies worked.

That said, we know what he claims to adhere to, and we can judge him on that. One of his campaign promises is that he'll sign any legislation to reduce or simplify taxes and that he'll veto any legislation that doesn't pay for itself. He did reduce taxes over a dozen times, veto over 750 legislative pieces, and he cut over 1000 government jobs, so I think we can give him some credit for following through on what are supposed to be libertarian principles. Also, about 1/3 of his vetoes were of republican legislation, so that kind of strengthens his credence. It's worth noting that he never held a political office before running for governor. That just leaves the debt problem, and ideally we'll be able to see his explanation for that during the debates, as we should.

An interesting fact, and I'll try to find the source where I read this but don't have the time right now, is that Johnson's campaign has found that he is pulling voters from both Democrats and Republicans about equally (slightly more democrat) in the polls. If this is truly the case, it strengthens the argument that he has the greatest chance of winning as a third party candidate in a long time (even past '92, since I believe Perot stole votes mostly from Bush), however low that chance is.

I have my problems with him, but his honesty is refreshing, to be honest, and I think, since we in America are in the mood to fight against the establishment, it doesn't hurt to see a strong third party candidate.

 

[gleem]

The next poll should be interesting. Since the "Dump Trump" movement failed how many of those who supported it will remain faithful to the GOP.

 

[Evo]

Question for those that would vote for Trump just to thumb their nose at established government without regard for the consequences, how do you feel about his VP pick?

Mike Pence just destroyed Trump’s chances of winning over Bernie Sanders voters

If Trump "had picked a more moderate person instead of the devil incarnate, he would have been more appealing,"Javiera C wrote. "We all know Trump will probably get impeached in the first year so his VP will be president."

Another Facebook user suggested Trump's pick of an establishment Republican like Pence taints his credentials as an anti-establishment outsider, while yet another vowed that Pence only increased her opposition to Trump.

But picking a deeply religious, anti-abortion, anti-LGBT rights, old white male probably won't boost those sagging numbers among a Sanders coalition made up, in large part, of young professional and millennial voters less religious and in favor of gay marriage and LGBT equality.

Even more toxic in Trump's quest to sway fed up Sanders supporters: Pence's religious-freedom law, that would have given business owners the right to refuse service to gay customers, which he was forced to retreat from after a political firestorm.

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/07/18/mike...ng-over-bernie-sanders-voters-commentary.html

 

[mheslep]

I feel that if we elect Hillary, we deserve better; if we elect Donald, we deserve Donald.
.
I suspect this isn't just my opinion only.

Ironically, I think conditions leading to the notion that a waiver can be granted to democracy for the maxim "you get what you deserve" *only* for the establishment candidate is the reason for the rise of Trump.