Breaking Down the 2016 POTUS Race Contenders & Issues

[mheslep]

Former Illinois governor Rob Blagoyevich is now serving time in prison for similar "pay to play" corruption.

If I understand the law:

The important legal aspects of Blagoyevich's case was that he was caught on tape offering a lot of profanity and *action* (nomination to a vacant US Senate seat) for money. Clinton's emails and subordinate's emails offer meetings to those who contributed to the Foundation but so far as I no do not offer action in writing, though actions beneficial to the donor occurred after the fact for those offered face time. If Blagoyevich had instead collected money only for a recorded agreement to simply meet, and even then a later Senate nomination emerged, he might still be be governor or at least walking around in his own clothes. The subtext is publicly damning, but I think Clinton walks unless: some record emerges confirming action from the meeting, e.g. "after meeting with donor X we gave them a pile of VISAs", "we publicly trashed donor X's enemies in the Bangladeshi government", etc.

 

[Salvador]

that is a good observation , Hillary is not exactly dumb as we know.
Basically such things are hard to prove because people aren't forbidden to meet and if it's all kept verbal without much trace on paper how would you know that the offering for charity was actually a payment for a job well done.
Especially the speaking fees , I think those are great , no need to legalize any cash etc, simply go and have a talk and a bunch of gentleman are pretending they listen and haven't heard before what your saying.
Pure bribing with envelopes or suitcases full of cash like in the old days is gone and so anything is so much harder to prove.

For those with access and those interested I think they could follow Hillary's own advice , she has said "follow the money" on many occasions , maybe someone should see how much the Clinton foundation has cashed in and how much they have actually given away , although I think that their papers and deals are done professionally so any direct link might not be there for someone to simply see.

 

[Astronuc]

With regard to the Clinton Foundation: https://www.clintonfoundation.org/about

The majority of the Clinton Foundation’s charitable work is performed and implemented by our staff and partners on the ground. We operate programs around the world that have a significant impact in a wide range of issue areas, including economic development, climate change, health and wellness, and participation of girls and women.

In cases where we support others in their own philanthropic endeavors, the money is used to convene these partners to develop their programs and commitments, rather than directly implement projects.

Because of our work, more than 31,000 American schools are providing kids with healthy food choices in an effort to eradicate childhood obesity; more than 105,000 farmers in Malawi, Rwanda, and Tanzania are benefiting from climate-smart agronomic training, higher yields, and increased market access; more than 33,500 tons of greenhouse gas emissions are being reduced annually across the United States; over 450,000 people have been impacted through market opportunities created by social enterprises in Latin America, the Caribbean, and Asia; through the independent Clinton Health Access Initiative, over 11.5 million people in more than 70 countries have access to CHAI-negotiated prices for HIV/AIDS medications; an estimated 85 million people in the U.S. will be reached through strategic health partnerships developed across industry sectors at both the local and national level; and members of the Clinton Global Initiative community have made more than 3,500 Commitments to Action, which have improved the lives of over 430 million people in more than 180 countries.

Believe it or not. Ostensibly, the foundation files appropriate papers and financial statements.

https://www.clintonfoundation.org/about/board-directors
https://www.clintonfoundation.org/about/leadership-team

 

[mheslep]

With regard to un-examined mission statements in general, here's the Mission Statement from an entity that safely handled large sums of money for decades:

Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities LLC is a leading international market maker. The firm has been providing quality executions for broker-dealers, banks, and financial institutions since its inception in 1960. During this time, Madoff has compiled an uninterrupted record of growth, which has enabled us to continually build our financial resources. With more than $550 million in firm capital, Madoff currently ranks among the top 1% of US Securities firms. Our sophisticated proprietary automation and unparalleled client service delivers an enhanced execution that is virtually unmatched in our industry.

Madoff Securities' clients include scores of leading securities firms, banks and financial institutions from across the United States and around the world. The firm is a leading market-maker in all of the S&P 500 stocks as well as over 350 NASDAQ issues. The firm is known for its fine pricing as well as its ability to execute most orders in seconds...

...In an era of faceless organizations owned by other equally faceless organizations, Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities LLC harks back to an earlier era in the financial world: The owner's name is on the door. Clients know that Bernard Madoff has a personal interest in maintaining the unblemished record of value, fair-dealing, and high ethical standards that has always been the firm's hallmark.

Mr Madoff was also a noted philanthropist, making numerous gifts in the millions of dollars via the Madoff Family Foundation which he managed ... with money he stole via fraud from other charities.

 

[OCR]

With regard to un-examined mission statements in general, here's the Mission Statement from an entity that safely handled large sums of money for decades:

Very interesting, indeed ...

Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities LLC harks back to an earlier era in the financial world: The owner's name is on the door.

His name... might still be... on the door.[COLOR=#black]..[/COLOR]

 

[Salvador]

Just to stir up the soup take a look at this.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bill...tment-paid-speeches-related/story?id=33369277

This just raises the question, what exactly is the catch to having a former US president do a little "bla bla bla" in a bunch of foreign states of which some are adversaries if not to the the current US administration then at least to the values of the US and it's constitution for sure.
Could it be to shift the policy of the US government , given that while Bill was already done being in office his wife was still active in the office...

There are actually tons of material about the Clintons regarding money and money alone but that requires a thousand page investigation not a post from an unknown internet guy.
I wonder why isn't Trump going after the Clinton money schemes , is he afraid team Hillary will hit him back hard on his own "50 shades of debt" and some additional shady deals. Could be.

P.S. does someone know when will Trump debate against Hillary 1:1 on live tv? Or am I missing something , after all this is such a show I want to see it live. :D

 

[Salvador]

Ok I will go ahead and copy a link to a Breitbart news documentary about the Clintons here.
I just want to add that I do realize Breitbart may be with their own bias which surely seems so as they seem openly pro Trump , but then again everyone has their bias , and while some of the things in this documentary may be blown out of proportion , I actually took the time to google check most of the significant facts and even prominent news sites like NY times, WSJ, Bloomberg etc support many of the stories presented here so I think it's a worthwhile watch.
Just to refresh the otherwise "all there is negative about Trump, but let's say only good about Hillary" media scene that is on almost every major news source.

Just some outlines of the biggest topics presented in the video as shown also in other news outlets.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/u...s-pressed-for-control-of-uranium-company.html

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...s-russia-gained-control-of-a-u-s-uranium-mine

I'm surprised even the ultra liberal Hillary supporting site Huffingtonpost has an article about the donations to Hillary in the context of the Keystone pipeline

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/05/31/hillary-clinton-speeches-keystone_n_7463108.html

and another article about the upcoming book in Ny post

http://nypost.com/2015/05/03/clinton-cash-is-a-blistering-indictment-of-hill-and-bills-behavior/Basically the internet is full of everything both outrageous stupidity and clear facts all one needs to have is a clear mind , some set of critical thinking skills and patience and literally anyone can find out what matters for his or her vote in a matter of days , but surely this won't happen this way because the public is too ignorant to put their short term barbecue interests aside and focus on something that can change their long term future.
And I must say I now think more and more Trump is a fool , with all this good source material out there for him to bite into he still goes on about "The blacks will vote for me"... "oh Mexico will so pay for the wall" ..."either NATO countries pay or we screw em" and "give Japan nukes"
Paul Manafort is a professional no doubt but given his shady deals with Russian influenced leaders , this too was probably one of Trumps great mistakes , so now instead of focusing again on Hillary , all eyes are on Trump for him maybe being directly influenced from foreign powers.
And the list could go on and on.I think one of Jesus last phrases at the cross is a good summary about this election "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do."

If you ask me I think the Kremlin/Putin already has far stretched plans for either one of the candidates if they become POTUS.

Who would have thought that the strength of America which wasn't conquered by the missiles in Cuba or the USSR and the Cold war no matter how close were the calls at some point is now demolished by Americans themselves.If you would allow philosophy here I could draw parallels to ancient Rome etc.

 

[Dotini]

...the strength of America...is now demolished by Americans themselves

Your hyperbole is highly entertaining!

 

[Salvador]

Well I'm not sure I fully understand the way in which you meant your remark Dotini, It sure is more than just entertaining to Americas rivals like Russia or China.

If one looks at history he can see that almost every great country , civilization and society has fallen this way , by being divided and without a common goal or one that is lost and forgotten.All these shortcomings are like a gift on a silver platter to any direct rival or enemy seeking to conquer.
Take the latest of the great powers - the USSR , contrary to what many westerners love to think the USSR didn't fell because of US pressure or any outside force , it fell solely because the idea that was the backbone of the whole thing failed those who followed that idea.And at one point the majority just decided that it's time to basically put this at rest while others desperately tried to save what was left and failed at that.

Ideas are abstract they cannot die nor they can fail or win , their just words formed with some meaning to some but no meaning to others. Ideas only take shape and form when someone follows them and acts upon them.The US constitution for example , a set of ideas that define a country but the reality is different because the reality is what we make it to be and if the majority drift away from the core principles then either they form a different country with different laws or they simply collapse the existing one and then there can be a number of further outcomes , the most common being a form on anarchy.
The way I see this now is the US is undergoing a rather fundamental change in it's history and this started some decades ago it just wasn't visible but now in the last decade it has really accelerated.I'm not just talking about one election and the shortage of good candidates , this is just a tiny reflection or a puff of smoke rising up from a much bigger fire burning underneath in the society.

Hard to tell which way this will go , probably the next election and the situation after 4 years will give us some better clues.Unless someone here feels like Nostradamus.

 

[Salvador]

Just by the way , who feels like this election has been already sort of "prophesied" and the themes and crimes played out in the House of Cards tv series?
Bill and Hillary fit rather perfectly the roles of Frank and Claire Underwood , both real Clintons and abstract Underwoods love money and power , both have had serious problems with marriage in front of public eyes that they later tried to downplay and lie about.Both are involved in shady deals and escape trial simply because of their influence.And both use the progressive liberal line in their speeches and tactics to gain public vote while probably thinking differently underneath.
It's only a bit harder to figure out which character Trump fits into... Waiting for the next season of House of Cards , although while waiting this election is also good enough to give the viewer chills and thrills down the spine.

 

[Dotini]

Well I'm not sure I fully understand the way in which you meant your remark Dotini, It sure is more than just entertaining to Americas rivals like Russia or China.

I'd like to assure you I do enjoy your erudition, wit and insouciance. However, while I agree with much of what you say, your assertions and speculations sometimes seem more dire or portentous than I'm prepared to vouchsafe. Probably I take the whole subject of politics a deal less seriously than yourself.

 

[Salvador]

Probably I take the whole subject of politics a deal less seriously than yourself.

Well there's this famous quote to which I cannot find the original author at this time , but it goes like this "if you don't do politics politics will do you"

 

[mheslep]

Breitbart news documentary

That video is neither.

 

[Salvador]

Well it's a video made after the book titled "Clinton Cash" by the author Peter Schweizer, it's just that Breitbart gave him their platform for making it bigger news and helped with publication.But if I sense your political leanings correctly I think you already know that and have seen that video.

P.S. Sure it cannot be considered a documentary in it's classical form because both the timing and the topic and the news platform suggests it's as much of a documentary as it's a campaign hit attack from the other team or atleast someone who supports their cause.

But I think the question raised by many is valid , and that is , is it even acceptable that for the first time in the US history there is a presidential candidate/es that have so much possible and some actual wrong doing on their part and that is even before office.Ok if someone screws up while in office , but here we already have so much on the plate and he or she hasn't even began the real thing yet.

And while I did some reading today to refresh my memory I must say the Clintons have actually just as much bad practice in their public record if not more than Trump , so whoever wants to say that one is better I would have a countless trustworthy google pages full of proving just the opposite.
Surely Hillary talks much better and has far better manners and that could be one of the reasons why Trump sticks out so badly.

 

[DiracPool]

Again, I'm watching the movie "13 days" on NatGeo tonight and I was thinking about that documentary on Robert McNamara called "Fog of War," where he states at the end of the show about a good political policy where "you don't answer the question that you are asked, you answer the question you wish you were asked."

Well, it looks as though most politicians and political pundits watched that documentary and it seems that none of these bozos can EVER just answer a direct question. Frankly, I'm getting sick of it. Just look for yourself, go on CNN or FOX and watch. A commentator will ask a guest a question, and the guest will simply start answering a completely unrelated question that wasn't asked. What kind of BS is this? It makes me want to completely de-tune out of the political discussion. For some stupid reason, it seems to be OK for everyone just to completely talk past each other and get away with it. There should be news station with a BS meter that ranks the directness with which you answer a commentators question and place it right above your forehead as your addressing the question.

 

[Salvador]

there actually are some some people in the news industry that have both the courage and also the intellect and work put into their research on the background to ask directly and once they hear "Ryan Lochte" for an answer they just go ahead and ask the same question one more time and after that if needed from a different angle and so they do this so many times that either the one who answers starts to feel silly about himself or is not that smart and gives away something crucial.

But quite frankly the presidential debates were lacking this sort or rigorous checking , the candidates pretty much were speaking from their big hearts.

Maybe you also forgot the other portion , were you are asked a question and you answer directly to that question but with lies , ones that are hard to prove and so basically for anyone else seem like that would be the correct answer and everyone's happy and all is fine and dandy.

 

[mheslep]

Again, I'm watching the movie "13 days" on NatGeo tonight and I was thinking about that documentary on Robert McNamara called "Fog of War," where he states at the end of the show about a good political policy where "you don't answer the question that you are asked, you answer the question you wish you were asked."

Well, it looks as though most politicians and political pundits watched that documentary and it seems that none of these bozos can EVER just answer a direct question. Frankly, I'm getting sick of it. Just look for yourself, go on CNN or FOX and watch. A commentator will ask a guest a question, and the guest will simply start answering a completely unrelated question that wasn't asked. What kind of BS is this? It makes me want to completely de-tune out of the political discussion. For some stupid reason, it seems to be OK for everyone just to completely talk past each other and get away with it. There should be news station with a BS meter that ranks the directness with which you answer a commentators question and place it right above your forehead as your addressing the question.

Yes, though a good part of the non responsiveness is due to the media I think, with inflamatory or rediculous ratings driven "when did you stop beating your spouse" questions, a result of the 24 hrs news programs. There are still some niche areas of the news media where politicians are asked reasonable questions and they often give on point responses. CSPAN interviews. The 6pm EST Brett Baire news. These outlets don't feature follow-on, this-is-what-you-should-think commentators after the interview with chopped up video. Strangely enough it seems the new responsible niche TV news is roughly the size of the old, 30 yrs ago main stream TV news.

 

[Salvador]

Well , whether it's politics or the news that cover it - money doesn't stink...

 

[Dotini]

Video from two angles shows the Democratic nominee suffering some sort of medical issue early this morning.





Edit: These appear to perhaps be the same video, with one viewed through a mirror and reframed..

 

[Salvador]

Hard to say what happened there exactly.One thing is for sure I doubt she had any reason to do this on purpose as some conspiracy theorist already propose simply because Trump has always suggested that she has weak health and she would in no way benefit from such a situation happening while someone's holding a camera recording her.
Almost surely she had some serious medical condition.

The thing perhaps even more interesting about this is what will the media make up about this and how will they use it to bias and shift the race.
Given the current trends I think the liberal media will either downplay it , not report at all or say that before having medical problems she spoke with Trump...
The Conservatives are probably going to make their voices louder in saying she is unfit and this is a big reason why.

Oh one more , I am almost sure Trump will say she is "low energy".

Whatever happened I think we will find out soon , after all the race is going to finish fast and there's not much time left.

 

[Dotini]

I'm finding it harder and harder to believe the media reports that there is nothing wrong with Hillary Clinton. If indeed she is suffering from a serious or debilatating illness it could well be a disaster for the Democrats . Could Bernie Sanders be drafted into run for President, or would it be Clinton's running mate? Maybe Biden?? What if she becomes incapacitated after election but before inauguration? Could Obama remain in office?

While there is plenty of conspiracy theorist guff about Clinton, this latest incident is very worrying, as is the fact that she is clearly avoiding public appearances as much as possible - which in the run up to a Presidential election is extremely odd.

 

[Salvador]

Looks like House of Cards will have plenty of source material to work on and incorporate into their next series.

It would look very stupid if indeed for some reason Hillary went out of the race and now all of a sudden Bernie is welcomed in once again.

 

[RonL]

Video from two angles shows the Democratic nominee suffering some sort of medical issue early this morning.

I'm sorry, but my dyslexic brain seems to have a problem with those video's, anyone care to comment. I see the vehicles coming from different directions ??

 

[Dotini]

The dam has broken on mainstream media embargo of discussions of Clinton's health issues.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...me-a-real-issue-in-the-presidential-campaign/

 

[TurtleMeister]

I'm sorry, but my dyslexic brain seems to have a problem with those video's, anyone care to comment. I see the vehicles coming from different directions ??

I think the video on the bottom is inverted left and right (mirror image). In the US it is more common to park on the right side of the road. Other than that, I don't see any anomalies.

 

[RonL]

I think the video on the bottom is inverted left and right (mirror image). In the US it is more common to park on the right side of the road. Other than that, I don't see any anomalies.

It's taken four beers, but things are looking right. The mirror image seems to be zoomed a little or do I need one more beer ?

 

[mheslep]

Could Obama remain in office?...

No, regardless of what happens with Clinton.

 

[Astronuc]

I'm finding it harder and harder to believe the media reports that there is nothing wrong with Hillary Clinton.

The Boston Globe reported that a doctor stated that Clinton has pneumonia. USA Today has a headline stating that Clinton has pneumonia and she was over-heated at the 9/11 memorial event. There was recent speculation in the media about Clinton having some chronic health issue.

If Clinton's health deteriorated such that she had to withdraw, and she still remained on the ballot, then the electoral college could vote for someone else, and not necessarily Trump.

 

[mheslep]

...

If Clinton's health deteriorated such that she had to withdraw, and she still remained on the ballot, then the electoral college could vote for someone else, and not necessarily Trump.

In 20 or 30 of the states, the electors are bound by law to vote for party tickets, ie. the party nominees. Failure to comply is a felony. There's some speculation that in the event of a withdrawal or death of a nominee, the party 'leadership' could hastily nominate somebody else, but that seems highly improbable and short of any legal basis as to who constitutes party leadership without a convention. The popular vote ballots are already set, absentee voting has already begun. I doubt a nominee incapacitation makes any legal difference at this time. The electors can change their minds among nominees already on the ballot. If either nominee declares a withdrawal or dies, then the VP nominee who wins the electoral becomes the VP elect, and then the 20th amendment takes over and makes him President.
http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/electoral-college/electors.html

 

[Dotini]

In 20 or 30 of the states, the electors are bound by law to vote for party tickets, ie. the party nominees. Failure to comply is a felony. There's some speculation that in the event of a withdrawal or death of a nominee, the party 'leadership' could hastily nominate somebody else, but that seems highly improbable and short of any legal basis as to who constitutes party leadership without a convention. The popular vote ballots are already set, absentee voting has already begun. I doubt a nominee incapacitation makes any legal difference at this time. The electors can change their minds among nominees already on the ballot. If either nominee declares a withdrawal or dies, then the VP nominee who wins the electoral becomes the VP elect, and then the 20th amendment takes over and makes him President.
http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/electoral-college/electors.html

It seems as if we could be headed for a constitutional crisis. Terribly irresponsible to allow this to happen. But hey, new adventures can be fun. Oh, to be a popcorn salesman.

 

[jim hardy]

It's taken four beers, but things are looking right. The mirror image seems to be zoomed a little or do I need one more beer ?

I'd say you're right Somebody did sloppy work.

Here they are, i snipped both at 1 second and pasted both into Paint , bottom one reduced to 98% and hit "flip horizontal" .
Look at the building across the street. Windows line up when reversed.

old jim

 

[jtbell]

Of course, we've already had at least one president who was prone to stumbling:

 

[Salvador]

Considering that the US has a history of presidents getting shot and shot at in assassination attempts , I would say personal health problems are a low risk for anyone's candidacy.

Also to reflect on mheslep and his post I think given the way things are going right now, even if Hillary was in a worse paralyzed state than Stephen Hawking she would still make it to the White House.

 

[Dotini]

Award winning MSNBC journalist David Shuster tweets that DNC is meeting to consider emergency replacement for Hillary Clinton.

David ShusterVerified account‏@DavidShuster
Clarification from dem operatives @HillaryClinton pneumonia: Expect emergency DNC meeting to CONSIDER replacement. #HillarysHealth

 

[mheslep]

Award winning MSNBC journalist David Shuster tweets that DNC is meeting to consider emergency replacement for Hillary Clinton.

David ShusterVerified account‏@DavidShuster
Clarification from dem operatives @HillaryClinton pneumonia: Expect emergency DNC meeting to CONSIDER replacement. #HillarysHealth

The nebulous thing called the 'DNC' can't directly replace the Democratic nominee of the Convention anymore than the RNC can replace the Democratic nominee.