Can Humans Really Have Superhuman Strength?

[FizixFreak]

It was simply that your response to my post was you saying "you can't deny humans lived longer". That is what I was referring to.

when did i say that? but you know what just forget about it things are cleared up now.

OK I understand. Unfortunately the two don't mix nicely.

Now all is clarified, let's get back to the OP.

I admit in some cases they really don't but in some cases they DO

 

[FizixFreak]

I saw this video a long time ago i felt like posting it here



personally i am skeptical about it!

 

[JaredJames]

I saw this video a long time ago i felt like posting it here



personally i am skeptical about it!

That's complete non-sense.

They don't even show him doing anything amazing (he's humble!).

It's all claims and stories, that's all. I watched the whole video and it sounds like a dude who just doesn't want to work, sleep with his wives at least 15 times a day and decides it's all about god.

 

[nismaratwork]

Heh... I don't think there's a religious angle, except in the natural translation of casual Arabic often crediting god, but yeah... with no demonstration it's just... nothing.

On the other hand, this guy DID find a way to sleep with a a bunch of women a LOT, so maybe his power is that he's incredibly smart? He reminds me of carnival strongmen... it's not that he can't be strong, just that he's not 30,000 men strong.

 

[JaredJames]

Heh... I don't think there's a religious angle, except in the natural translation of casual Arabic often crediting god, but yeah... with no demonstration it's just... nothing.

He credits his strength to god, a lot.

On the other hand, this guy DID find a way to sleep with a a bunch of women a LOT, so maybe his power is that he's incredibly smart? He reminds me of carnival strongmen... it's not that he can't be strong, just that he's not 30,000 men strong.

Is 30,000 men really only 260hp?

 

[nismaratwork]

He credits his strength to god, a lot.


Is 30,000 men really only 260hp?

True, but anyone in his position in Egypt would too... it's more culturally pronounced, but about the same as our sports stars pointing to the sky or thanking god. It's more prevalent, in fact, "god willing" and "'please' god" are practically articles of speech in some regions. Still, any kind of false humility is usually part of the carnie MO, and I doubt that changes due to region.

As for "manpower", that's not an actual unit, whereas HP = 745.7 watts

 

[JaredJames]

Yeah, but I'd hope 30,000 men could do more than 260 horses.

 

[nismaratwork]

Yeah, but I'd hope 30,000 men could do more than 260 horses.

I'd have to assume so... it does seem like a very odd comparison... maybe Turbo-1 or Rhody would know?

 

[FizixFreak]

True, but anyone in his position in Egypt would too... it's more culturally pronounced, but about the same as our sports stars pointing to the sky or thanking god. It's more prevalent, in fact, "god willing" and "'please' god" are practically articles of speech in some regions. Still, any kind of false humility is usually part of the carnie MO, and I doubt that changes due to region.

As for "manpower", that's not an actual unit, whereas HP = 745.7 watts

Nismar i am quite impressed with your understanding of the Muslim culture i guess your Kuwaiti friend helps you a lot say السلام علیکم to him from my behalf i hope i had a western friend in that comparison.

I also don't see a religious angle here this guy in the video doesn't really look very educated or intellectual so he would probably attribute any thing to GOD because he finds no other explanation people like this are so frustrating if the weather is cold they will say "MASHA-ALLAH its very cold outside" they don't see the cold as absence of heat but they see it as the will of the GOD and they would attribute natural calamities as "WRATH" of GOD.

But coming back to the topic i also think that 260HP=strength of 30,000...,is really a odd comparison he says that his strength has been measured by taking some samples from his knee and his spine it confusing can anybody tell me how that can these type of tests measure a man's strength?

 

[DanP]

True, but anyone in his position in Egypt would too... it's more culturally pronounced, but about the same as our sports stars pointing to the sky or thanking god. It's more prevalent, in fact, "god willing" and "'please' god" are practically articles of speech in some regions. Still, any kind of false humility is usually part of the carnie MO, and I doubt that changes due to region.

As for "manpower", that's not an actual unit, whereas HP = 745.7 watts

Measured power in lifts for WR holders is very pretty. For example credited numbers for Z. Shi (62.5 Kg ) in the technical snatch lift are" total pull ~1551 W , second pull ~3333 W.

But the peritinent question is: how much time you can maintain power output ? The reported power of Lance Armstrong over the 2004 Tour de France's climb in Alpe d'Huez is a staggering 495W. Probably an untrained men would be hard-pressed to maintain less than quarter of that.

 

[JaredJames]

Measured power in lifts for WR holders is very pretty. For example credited numbers for Z. Shi (62.5 Kg ) in the technical snatch lift are" total pull ~1551 W , second pull ~3333 W.

But the peritinent question is: how much time you can maintain power output ? The reported power of Lance Armstrong over the 2004 Tour de France's climb in Alpe d'Huez is a staggering 495W. Probably an untrained men would be hard-pressed to maintain less than quarter of that.

OK, so let's say there are ~6 men per horsepower. That gives us ~5000hp for the figure.

Sounds better.

FizixFreak, I have no idea how those "tests" could tell you anything about the strength of a person. Perhaps someone else can enlighten us.

 

[nismaratwork]

Nismar i am quite impressed with your understanding of the Muslim culture i guess your Kuwaiti friend helps you a lot say السلام علیکم to him from my behalf i hope i had a western friend in that comparison.

He did indeed, and I really enjoy learning about other cultures and ways of life. I'd be happy to pass your words along, and I can guess that he'll be quite pleased.

I also don't see a religious angle here this guy in the video doesn't really look very educated or intellectual so he would probably attribute any thing to GOD because he finds no other explanation people like this are so frustrating if the weather is cold they will say "MASHA-ALLAH its very cold outside" they don't see the cold as absence of heat but they see it as the will of the GOD and they would attribute natural calamities as "WRATH" of GOD.

But coming back to the topic i also think that 260HP=strength of 30,000...,is really a odd comparison he says that his strength has been measured by taking some samples from his knee and his spine it confusing can anybody tell me how that can these type of tests measure a man's strength?

I can't imagine how that would be a valid test on its own, although I suppose if he's claiming ot be made of something other than bone and sinew that would be the direction. I think it's meant to do just what it has, lend an air of credibility and medicine to what amounts to an absurd claim. Remember, if he were that strong, actually USING that strength would tear his apart... his ligaments and tendons would rupture and tear, muscles would tear, and even bones would break.

Perhaps the idea was to show that he's like Wolverine, and covered in metal?

Nah, this guy is just using old carnival tricks of leverage to impress, and then follows up with these claims and immense humility. It's not a bad trick, but you're right to be skeptical of him. After all, if he were so strong, he could surely demonstrate it...


@DanP: Hmmmm... I think the measure for HP was 745.7 Watts/1 second (I could be wrong). Certainly your lift numbers alone disprove the notion, and while Armstrong may not be the norm, he's not a speed racer, but an edurance and speed racer.

@JarednJames: That sound much closer to reality. Other than adding the mystique of medicine to the mix, I guess the tests could be to show that his ligaments, tendons, and bone are somehow fundamentally different than the norm, and able to withstand the internal stresses of his "immense power". In short, think of John Edwards humbly saying, "Oh, it just comes to me..."

 

[DanP]

@DanP: Hmmmm... I think the measure for HP was 745.7 Watts/1 second (I could be wrong). Certainly your lift numbers alone disprove the notion, and while Armstrong may not be the norm, he's not a speed racer, but an edurance and speed racer.

horsepower is a unit of measure for power, not rate of change of power in time. Watt per second is a unit useful for ramp-up behavior of power sources.

watt-hour is a unit for energy.

I think historically Watt coined horsepower to explain how many horses would an engine replace to his potential customers from industry. Legend has it at least. Anyway you must be on crack to invent such a unit without any purpose :P

 

[nismaratwork]

horsepower is a unit of measure for power, not rate of change of power in time. Watt per second is a unit useful for ramp-up behavior of power sources.

watt-hour is a unit for energy.

I think historically Watt coined horsepower to explain how many horses would an engine replace to his potential customers from industry. Legend has it at least. Anyway you must be on crack to invent such a unit without any purpose :P

*sizzling sound of burning crack*

WHAT?! What do you mean? Damn why are the lights so bright?...

...There are ANTS under my skin!

 

[FizixFreak]

OK, so let's say there are ~6 men per horsepower. That gives us ~5000hp for the figure.

Sounds better.

FizixFreak, I have no idea how those "tests" could tell you anything about the strength of a person. Perhaps someone else can enlighten us.

How can you assume that? correct me if i am wrong but i don't think that the engineers have ever established that how many men would equal one horse power and i think that for this particular case we don't need to set such standard i think some one claiming to have 260HP is quite a claim it self but there is no doubt 260HP=strength of 30,000 men..., its an irresponsible exaggeration.

1HP=33,000lbs-foot/minute or 550lbs-foot/second so this guy claims to have the power of 143,000lbs-foot/second so if he is right he can move 550lbs of weight for 260 feet(you can think of other combinations as well) IN ONE SECOND just goes to show you how ridiculous that claim is i might have made some mistake there so any correction will be appreciated for reference check this out

http://www.howstuffworks.com/horsepower.htm

 

[nismaratwork]

How can you assume that? correct me if i am wrong but i don't think that the engineers have ever established that how many men would equal one horse power and i think that for this particular case we don't need to set such standard i think some one claiming to have 260HP is quite a claim it self but there is no doubt 260HP=strength of 30,000 men..., its an irresponsible exaggeration.

1HP=33,000lbs-foot/minute or 550lbs-foot/second so this guy claims to have the power of 143,000lbs-foot/second so if he is right he can move 550lbs of weight for 260 feet(you can think of other combinations as well) IN ONE SECOND just goes to show you how ridiculous that claim is i might have made some mistake there so any correction will be appreciated for reference check this out

http://www.howstuffworks.com/horsepower.htm

It's not important that we define horsepower, what's important is that you're using your skeptical eye to realize how much is wrong with his claims. I'd say, well done.

 

[FizixFreak]

He did indeed, and I really enjoy learning about other cultures and ways of life. I'd be happy to pass your words along, and I can guess that he'll be quite pleased.

I am sure he will be pleased but only if you could pronounce it right but i think i can trust you on that

I can't imagine how that would be a valid test on its own, although I suppose if he's claiming ot be made of something other than bone and sinew that would be the direction. I think it's meant to do just what it has, lend an air of credibility and medicine to what amounts to an absurd claim. Remember, if he were that strong, actually USING that strength would tear his apart... his ligaments and tendons would rupture and tear, muscles would tear, and even bones would break.

Well if the test showed how much stress his back bone and knee joints can take and IF that test was valid then i have to say that is really quite amazing and a topic worth discussing but still this does not prove that he has that much strength the only way to see is ask for demonstration which he declines but he does some small demonstration like breaking a coin in half and in a picture you can see him lifting a car by the side if he is going that far then why not show the world his REAL strength i mean a man with 260Hp can definitely do a lot better.

sizzling sound of burning crack*

WHAT?! What do you mean? Damn why are the lights so bright?...

...There are ANTS under my skin!

oh my GOD ants under your skin....,quick get a TWEEZER

 

[JaredJames]

How can you assume that?

Welcome to science. There may not be an official comparison, so we take known values and we create one.

I wanted to compare the 30,000 men to 260hp claim.

For this purpose, DanP provided figures for top athletes which I then used to gauge the ordinary joe's performance.

Based on the figures, it would take ~2 Lance Armstrongs to produce ~1hp. On this basis, I allowed for the average person and made it 6 people per 1hp. And so on...

The purpose of those approximations is not to give you an accurate answer, but to give you a rough idea of how close 30,000 men to 260hp is.

I overestimated the number of men per 1hp and still ended up with a figure well above what was claimed so it's clearly nonsense.

Now, your figure of 143,000lbs-foot/second gives each of the 30,000 men 4.8lbs-foot/second. That means you need 115 men per 1hp - which again you can see is complete non-sense.

 

[FizixFreak]

Welcome to science. There may not be an official comparison, so we take known values and we create one.

I wanted to compare the 30,000 men to 260hp claim.

For this purpose, DanP provided figures for top athletes which I then used to gauge the ordinary joe's performance.

Based on the figures, it would take ~2 Lance Armstrongs to produce ~1hp. On this basis, I allowed for the average person and made it 6 people per 1hp. And so on...

The purpose of those approximations is not to give you an accurate answer, but to give you a rough idea of how close 30,000 men to 260hp is.

I overestimated the number of men per 1hp and still ended up with a figure well above what was claimed so it's clearly nonsense.

Now, your figure of 143,000lbs-foot/second gives each of the 30,000 men 4.8lbs-foot/second. That means you need 115 men per 1hp - which again you can see is complete non-sense.

"welcome to science"

I admit i am not good at physics(i am actually a commerce student) but that really hurt my feelingsyou are a cruel man

 

[JaredJames]

"welcome to science"

I admit i am not good at physics(i am actually a commerce student) but that really hurt my feelingsyou are a cruel man

Nothing cruel, just realistic.

 

[FizixFreak]

Nothing cruel, just realistic.

you EVIL kitty!

 

[nismaratwork]

I have to admit... JnJ, he reached the same conclusion as you... you may have been a bit harsh.

We don't need to be physicists to be Skeptics, and we can't learn from FizixFreak or teach him if we're just harsh. I know, pot, kettle, black, I freely admit it... but consider it.

 

[FizixFreak]

I have to admit... JnJ, he reached the same conclusion as you... you may have been a bit harsh.

We don't need to be physicists to be Skeptics, and we can't learn from FizixFreak or teach him if we're just harsh.

Well i have to say i did not find the comment "welcome to science" very pleasant but i am a big boy its not that i am going to take it so seriously so i just decided to laugh it of in my previous posts i do admit i am not the smartest guy here and like i said before i am a commerce student so you can expect me to make mistakes but any way let's not strech this may be its just his style and he probebly meant no disrespect.

I know, pot, kettle, black, I freely admit it... but consider it

what do you meant by that.

What about the ants under your skin if the tweezer doesn't work you can always use a RED HOT IRON

 

[nismaratwork]

Well i have to say i did not find the comment "welcome to science" very pleasant but i am a big boy its not that i am going to take it so seriously so i just decided to laugh it of in my previous posts i do admit i am not the smartest guy here and like i said before i am a commerce student so you can expect me to make mistakes but any way let's not strech this may be its just his style and he probebly meant no disrespect.



what do you meant by that.

What about the ants under your skin if the tweezer doesn't work you can always use a RED HOT IRON

I think you're right about JnJ, who in my experience is a really good guy. As for "pot kettle black", it's from a phrase, "The pot can't call the kettle black", from a time when both were made of cast-iron (black). The idea is that I'm saying Jared can be harsh, when I'm extremely harsh much of the time... I'm calling him the same as he could call me.

Using the power of Wikipedia, I've even found the Urdu equivalent idiom!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pot_calling_the_kettle_black

Urdu: لا چور کوتوال کو ان ("The thief scolding the magistrate in reverse")

 

[FizixFreak]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pot_calling_the_kettle_black

Urdu: لا چور کوتوال کو ان ("The thief scolding the magistrate in reverse")

My goodness what would us modern day humans would do without the internet

Look like you may need to act as my translater at some times without any remuneration

But any ways let's get back to the topic i still think it would be quite interesting to discuss about this is from my previous post just wanted to know what others think about it

Well if the test showed how much stress his back bone and knee joints can take and IF that test was valid then i have to say that is really quite amazing and a topic worth discussing

But may be its just me.

 

[JaredJames]

he reached the same conclusion as you...

Exactly. He questioned my method and then used exactly the same one to draw exactly the same conclusion. Hence me being a bit miffed.

you may have been a bit harsh.

It's a language style. Spend enough time around me and you'll see it's my style.

I'm not a subtle person, I'll bite my tongue where I have to but for the most part I'm rather blunt and just call it like it is. It's something I tried to avoid on here initially, but battle fatigue or whatever you want to call it has set in something terrible and I'm tired of going in circles.

 

[nismaratwork]

Exactly. He questioned my method and then used exactly the same one to draw exactly the same conclusion. Hence me being a bit miffed.


It's a language style. Spend enough time around me and you'll see it's my style.

I'm not a subtle person, I'll bite my tongue where I have to but for the most part I'm rather blunt and just call it like it is. It's something I tried to avoid on here initially, but battle fatigue or whatever you want to call it has set in something terrible and I'm tired of going in circles.

I understand Jared, and I enjoy it to be honest... I know you can take at least as good as you give. In this case however, I don't think that tone or style translates well... I could be overprotective too though.

I think FizixFreak is making an honest attempt to participate in this, but take him at his word... he's in the process of learning, and we don't want to fail to teach, right? We also don't want to miss out on a chance to learn, and while you may not wish to be subtle (no reason you should have to be here), just remember that you two are literally worlds away in terms of cultures and languages.

I'll be honest, if this were me, I wouldn't say that you were being harsh to me, but I know you better and I'm familiar with this tyle in English. If I thought you were limited in your range I wouldn't have made the comment... I think you're selling your ability to communicate subtely short.

 

[FizixFreak]

Exactly. He questioned my method and then used exactly the same one to draw exactly the same conclusion. Hence me being a bit miffed.

When did i used your method..., may be i have missed some thing please enlighten me (i am NOT being sarcastic).

I think FizixFreak is making an honest attempt to participate in this, but take him at his word... he's in the process of learning, and we don't want to fail to teach, right? We also don't want to miss out on a chance to learn, and while you may not wish to be subtle (no reason you should have to be here), just remember that you two are literally worlds away in terms of cultures and languages.

First of all Nismar we are all grown up men its not a big deal we don't need to stretch this stuff and thanks for the explanation on my behalf i really appreciate it and now let's just get back to the topic

 

[nismaratwork]

When did i used your method..., may be i have missed some thing please enlighten me (i am NOT being sarcastic).




First of all Nismar we are all grown up men its not a big deal we don't need to stretch this stuff and thanks for the explanation on my behalf i really appreciate it and now let's just get back to the topic

Fair enough!

 

[JaredJames]

When did i used your method..., may be i have missed some thing please enlighten me (i am NOT being sarcastic).

I meant the assumption method you used.

Comparing up horsepower to the guy, and then as I showed the next step in your own assumption was to look at other humans.

The only difference was you assumed the guys power (using the 260hp figure not the 30,000 men one) and I did it the other way around.

 

[FizixFreak]

I meant the assumption method you used.

Comparing up horsepower to the guy, and then as I showed the next step in your own assumption was to look at other humans.

The only difference was you assumed the guys power (using the 260hp figure not the 30,000 men one) and I did it the other way around.

What assumption do you see here?are you talking about the foot-lbs combination?

1HP=33,000lbs-foot/minute or 550lbs-foot/second so this guy claims to have the power of 143,000lbs-foot/second so if he is right he can move 550lbs of weight for 260 feet(you can think of other combinations as well) IN ONE SECOND just goes to show you how ridiculous that claim is i might have made some mistake there so any correction will be appreciated for reference check this out

Again here is the reference to all that

http://www.howstuffworks.com/horsepower.htm

 

[nismaratwork]

Sooo...

putting aside HP for a second... let's use the approximations by both of you guys, and consider what the forces involved would do to bone, tendon, and muscle. I've looked through the JAMA, and a few others, and found no mention of this man. If any tests were done on tissue samples, they were done privately, or were not impressive. Frankly I don't know that human tissues can withstand the acceleration under that kind of power anyway, including bone (torsion at least).

I'd also have to wonder what good that strength is, and why it would evolve? Even if we run with the 'god gave it to him' notion... why? From my understanding, the god of Islam is not big on 'proving' things this way, the point being that was already done many times. No other god I can think of in other theologies would just plop some guy down with absurd strength and nothing better to do with it than talk about it and have loads of sex.

Maybe, even without the details, and in a scientific OR religious context, we may find this claim to be absurd on its face?

 

[JaredJames]

What assumption do you see here?

You made assumptions, I made assumptions, we came to the same conclusion. Job done.

I think we'll leave it there. Just wasting space now.

 

[FizixFreak]

Sooo...

putting aside HP for a second... let's use the approximations by both of you guys, and consider what the forces involved would do to bone, tendon, and muscle. I've looked through the JAMA, and a few others, and found no mention of this man. If any tests were done on tissue samples, they were done privately, or were not impressive. Frankly I don't know that human tissues can withstand the acceleration under that kind of power anyway, including bone (torsion at least).

I'd also have to wonder what good that strength is, and why it would evolve? Even if we run with the 'god gave it to him' notion... why? From my understanding, the god of Islam is not big on 'proving' things this way, the point being that was already done many times. No other god I can think of in other theologies would just plop some guy down with absurd strength and nothing better to do with it than talk about it and have loads of sex.

Maybe, even without the details, and in a scientific OR religious context, we may find this claim to be absurd on its face?

I think even measuring strength in HP is a bad comparison NEWTON might have been a better unit am i right? any ways eating raw meat and molten butter and having sex 15 times a day bending a coin with his eye socket this guy is interesting(do you the photo at 35sec of the video? i think there is something fishy here) i don't think this is the way of the Egyptians to tell the world "hay don't mess with us we have this hulk on our sides" i mean they are probably not bluffing but no doubt the media of their country is being HIGHLY IRRESPONSIBLE buying into something like that without any demonstration only on the basis of an ambiguous test is quite immature and to top that all they are actully not being skeptical about it but i have to say the reporter in the beginning of the video is pretty cute:!).

Nismar i already explained that there is no religious angle here and being the only Muslim here i think its OK if you can take my word for it

I really don't want to talk about religion right now but it seems you have a HUGE misconception about the concept of GOD in ISLAM we believe that the GOD of the Jews,Christians,and the Muslims is the same there is no separate GOD for any religion that is why Muslims prefers the word ALLAH as it is universal and applies to all humans without discrimination of any religion.

You made assumptions, I made assumptions, we came to the same conclusion. Job done.

I think we'll leave it there. Just wasting space now.

I would still say that i made no assumptions but you are right we are just wasting time on this so let's just forget about that.

 

[nismaratwork]

I think even measuring strength in HP is a bad comparison NEWTON might have been a better unit am i right? any ways eating raw meat and molten butter and having sex 15 times a day bending a coin with his eye socket this guy is interesting(do you the photo at 35sec of the video? i think there is something fishy here) i don't think this is the way of the Egyptians to tell the world "hay don't mess with us we have this hulk on our sides" i mean they are probably not bluffing but no doubt the media of their country is being HIGHLY IRRESPONSIBLE buying into something like that without any demonstration only on the basis of an ambiguous test is quite immature and to top that all they are actully not being skeptical about it but i have to say the reporter in the beginning of the video is pretty cute:!).

Nismar i already explained that there is no religious angle here and being the only Muslim here i think its OK if you can take my word for it

I really don't want to talk about religion right now but it seems you have a HUGE misconception about the concept of GOD in ISLAM we believe that the GOD of the Jews,Christians,and the Muslims is the same there is no separate GOD for any religion that is why Muslims prefers the word ALLAH as it is universal and applies to all humans without discrimination of any religion.




I would still say that i made no assumptions but you are right we are just wasting time on this so let's just forget about that.

Oh I understand, I'm just saying that however he came to be the way he CLAIMS, there is no logic to it in any framework, secular, religious, or in between.

His claims make no sense, and his demonstration with the coin is either impressive, or Yuri Geller's style... and we all know how reliable Yuri is eh? Bending spoons... arrgh.

I understand your point however, but I'd add... you're right that the media there is being immature; they want this man to be amazing. It's that wanting that we all have, that needs to be guarded, and when we find truly amazing things to be true, it makes guarding our credulity all the better for the wait.