Caught Staring to Etiquette for Opposite Sex Interactions

[DaveC426913]

What else is he to do? There is nothing wrong with admiration for beauty, it doesn't dehumanize them.

You may be confusing admiration with lust.

It has nothing to do with your intent, noble or otherwise. Since your thoughts are private, your target has no idea what your intent is. Their best course of action is to err on the side of caution.

You would need to ask the target how they feel. It is their feelings and stress where the potential harm is done.

 

[Cryptonic]

Who cares what they think? People are scenery! Just stare and grab yourself an eyefull, is what I say. Who cares!? Girls insist on wearing short skirts and showing cleavage = I'm staring.

I don't get laid much because I'm fat and ugly and unconfident with women... so what have I got to lose? Girls are mostly stuck-up and snobby, so I'm going to blatantly stare and who cares what they may think?

It's funny to see girls in miniskirts constantly tugging their skirt down ha ha.

 

[Pinu7]

It has nothing to do with your intent, noble or otherwise. Since your thoughts are private, your target has no idea what your intent is. Their best course of action is to err on the side of caution.

That's why you should do it secretly or, if not, just compliment her.

 

[DaveC426913]

Who cares what they think? People are scenery! Just stare and grab yourself an eyefull, is what I say. Who cares!? Girls insist on wearing short skirts and showing cleavage = I'm staring.

I don't get laid much because I'm fat and ugly and unconfident with women... so what have I got to lose? Girls are mostly stuck-up and snobby, so I'm going to blatantly stare and who cares what they may think?

Because that philosophy doesn't work both ways.

The obvious counterpoint would be to discover something about you, Cryptonic, that you are uncomfortable with, then wait until you are in a public place and then draw attention to it.

If you are a moral person, you will, at least in principle, desire not to inflict upon someone something (or an equivalent) that you would not want inflicted upon yourself.

 

[lisab]

Who cares what they think? People are scenery! Just stare and grab yourself an eyefull, is what I say. Who cares!? Girls insist on wearing short skirts and showing cleavage = I'm staring.

I don't get laid much because I'm fat and ugly and unconfident with women... so what have I got to lose? Girls are mostly stuck-up and snobby, so I'm going to blatantly stare and who cares what they may think?

It's funny to see girls in miniskirts constantly tugging their skirt down ha ha.

I would bet that the reason you aren't as popular with women isn't so much because of your looks.

Rather, your attitude towards women ("Girls are mostly stuck-up and snobby, so I'm going to blatantly stare and who cares what they may think?") and the high creep factor ("Just stare and grab yourself an eyefull, is what I say. Who cares!?"), are likely the highest contributors to your situation.

 

[ViewsofMars]

Who cares what they think? People are scenery! Just stare and grab yourself an eyefull, is what I say. Who cares!? Girls insist on wearing short skirts and showing cleavage = I'm staring..
I don't get laid much because I'm fat and ugly and unconfident with women... so what have I got to lose? Girls are mostly stuck-up and snobby, so I'm going to blatantly stare and who cares what they may think?
It's funny to see girls in miniskirts constantly tugging their skirt down ha ha.

It appears to me you have an addiction to female legs and breasts that has resulted in a unhealthy attitude towards females.

 

[Huckleberry]

You must realize that the target has no idea that
- you are a nice guy and you wil respect her space
- your attentions are no more intrusive than someone asking for directions to the subway
- you are not about to approach her, meaning she'll have to deal with a possible pickup (in-and-of-itself, probably one of the most stressful situations a person can spontaneously find themselves in)
- you are not actually lusting after her
- you are not a loon

I don't care if she thinks I'm a nice guy or a loon. I probably won't respect her space, whatever that means. My intensions may be intrusive, and I may be lusting after her. There's a whole world of nonverbal (edit- cues) here, but you are generally right that I don't take her concerns into my viewing pleasure. All of that still doesn't mean that I think of her as anything less than human.

The other side to the argument is that I don't know if she is a nice girl or a loon. I don't know her intentions or what trips her trigger. If we had to know these things before we interacted with each other then people would never meet on their own. It's an interactive world. We look and listen and feel. My senses and my thoughts are my own and I'm not going to curtail them or apologize for them for someone I don't even know.

There's nothing wrong with approaching an attractive woman. By your argument it is only okay to approach if you are uninterested in her body or blind. One might as well solicit random women or hand out information pamphlets or hit on only those girls with no pictures in their online profile.

*sigh* If appearance is the only thing that a guy finds attractive then they are missing out on everything that makes a woman a human being worth getting to know. Maybe the answer is that he isn't a person worth getting to know unless a woman is satisfied with the shallowest of attentions. But at the same time it isn't possible to get to know every single human being you look at. The answer isn't to never look at other human beings.

You're talking like a married man. That works for you, and hopefully your wife appreciates it. Some people are on the hunt. They have the eyes of a hunter and their gaze carries with it sexual interest. Miniskirts don't really do it for me though. She's trying too hard. I did recently see a picture of Hilary Swank in a sheer dress that left nothing to the imagination. That blew my socks off. She's a nice girl.

 

[DaveC426913]

I don't care...

You had me at I don't care...

You need not explain further. If you don't care, then you don't care if you're doing harm. Which is fine. Note that this is not a discussion where behaviour is being judged as right or wrong. It is a discussion where we are determining if the behaviour does harm.

It is a critical distinction.

It is a perfectly valid response to admit that you are causing someone discomfort and that you don't care.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

It is a perfectly valid response to admit that you are causing someone discomfort and that you don't care.

There is also the issue of whether or not it is very sensible for a person to feel discomfited over certain behaviors. There are apparently people out there who are discomfited by women wearing short skirts. Would you be as probing about the decision to wear short skirts when the person doing so may be discomfiting those around them?

 

[Huckleberry]

Not having the freedom to be expressive, trying to please everyone one sees and suppressing natural desire all have the potential to be harmful. Hiding one's head behind a partition whenever a woman catches him looking at her harms him and potentially her too. A woman who thinks every guy that admires her body is a creep is doing harm to herself and maybe him.

We all must live our lives the way we feel is right. There will always be someone that thinks that is harmful. Choose any great humanitarian and there will be someone that claims they were harmed by that person because there was a conflict of interest. Some things should be harmed. Right and wrong is the only consideration I take into account. That's difficult enough.

Conflict of interests is unavoidable if a person is going to have their own ideas. If someone can't accept that people are going to think for themselves and make judgements then maybe they should never leave their home minimizing their contact with other human beings, or they could wear burkas or something. If a conflict of interest is harm then what is one to do? Does one change their opinion and actions and try to alter the way they feel to accommodate every stranger they see. I consider that a great harm.

Your objections are primarily what some woman might think of the guy that is looking at her. Those are her judgements of him. Who are those judgements harming, him or her? There's a whole world full of people afraid of being judged, seeking approval. That's why we hide behind partitions, pretend not to check people out when we really are, get surgical augmentations, develop eating disorders and wear miniskirts and burkas. I think most of that is lunacy. It creates a world where nothing can be trusted to be what it appears. Caring overmuch about a strangers judgement can do great harm. I don't care about people's judgements. I care about the person even if I hate their judgements. That's a critical distinction too that you hastily judged.

We all make judgements. Why pretend that we don't?

 

[Cryptonic]

Huckleberry says it all succinctly. I fully agree with him (her?).

(BTW how do you know I'm not a lesbian??)

Just for the record I'm a staunch supporter of equal rights and totally abhor the sexism that is rampant (still) in our culture. Even science itself is full of gendered terminology such as "mankind". I hate the word "mankind" - it's fundamentally ridiculous and must be completely offensive to women. "Humanity" is better - but it still carries the word "man" in it (just as "woman" does!). Maybe "peoplekind" is a better alternative...

Having said that, I am a man (no, not a lesbian) with heterosexual drives. The physical female form is extreeemely pleasing to me in a multitude of ways. It's a deep instinctive thing - IOW I really have NO idea why female "curves" and "bumps" fascinate and excite me so much!? But they DO. And I'm at least honest about it (unlike some of you "holier-than-thou" hypocritical snags! :) ).

I make no apologies for my ogling tendencies. Some women may not like it, too bad. Others lap up the male attention. They know they've got it and they strut it!

If I carried an emotional/moral affinity for every single human being on this planet, I would have killed myself years ago because there is simply too much suffering in this sick world. So I detach myself from excessive concern for others (except my friends, of course - which are a healthy mix of males AND females, I might add). That's how I survive and that's what I mean when I say "WHO CARES/TOO BAD" what a woman thinks if she catches me staring. It's a rather insignificant little "sin" of mine in the greater scheme of things...

(BTW I threw the "fat" and "ugly" thing in as a bit of a sociological experiment. I'm neither. But yes, I admit I am a bit awkward around women :blush )

 

[fuzzyfelt]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaze
Might be interesting.

 

[DaveC426913]

Not having the freedom to be expressive, trying to please everyone one sees and suppressing natural desire all have the potential to be harmful.

While that may be true, all we're talking about here is simply respecting others' personal space.

Hiding one's head behind a partition whenever a woman catches him looking at her harms him and potentially her too. A woman who thinks every guy that admires her body is a creep is doing harm to herself and maybe him.

We all must live our lives the way we feel is right. There will always be someone that thinks that is harmful. Choose any great humanitarian and there will be someone that claims they were harmed by that person because there was a conflict of interest. Some things should be harmed. Right and wrong is the only consideration I take into account. That's difficult enough.

Conflict of interests is unavoidable if a person is going to have their own ideas. If someone can't accept that people are going to think for themselves and make judgements then maybe they should never leave their home minimizing their contact with other human beings, or they could wear burkas or something. If a conflict of interest is harm then what is one to do? Does one change their opinion and actions and try to alter the way they feel to accommodate every stranger they see. I consider that a great harm.

You are arguing reducto ad absurdum. But it doesn't apply.

There is simply a general rule: respect others' personal space.

Your objections are primarily what some woman might think of the guy that is looking at her. Those are her judgements of him. Who are those judgements harming, him or her?

He is nonverbally communicating a message to her. His message is both clear and ambiguous at the same time.

It is clear that he is very attracted to her, and is devoting his full attention to her, that is he undressing her with his eyes. It is ambiguous as to his intent.

It has nothing to do with a judgement of the guy, she is wise to err on the side of caution. Her defenses go up. The consequences of her thinking the worst and being wrong about him are much smaller than her thinking the best and being wrong.

There's a whole world full of people afraid of being judged, seeking approval. That's why we hide behind partitions, pretend not to check people out when we really are, get surgical augmentations, develop eating disorders and wear miniskirts and burkas. I think most of that is lunacy. It creates a world where nothing can be trusted to be what it appears. Caring overmuch about a strangers judgement can do great harm. I don't care about people's judgements. I care about the person even if I hate their judgements. That's a critical distinction too that you hastily judged.

Straw man argument. Irrelevant.

 

[Cryptonic]

Dave, you are probably nice guy if I met you, but seriously, you are being dishonest with us/yourself.

Nobody's "perfect" = right? So, tell me, what is YOUR idiosyncracy/"sin"/weirdo-behaviour? EVERYBODY has some weirdo/weird-*** behavioural silliness...so, WHAT IS YOURS?

I want you to confess your sins here and now, my son!

LOL!

 

[JoVieira]

Dave, you are probably nice guy if I met you, but seriously, you are being dishonest with us/yourself.

Nobody's "perfect" = right? So, tell me, what is YOUR idiosyncracy/"sin"/weirdo-behaviour? EVERYBODY has some weirdo/weird-*** behavioural silliness...so, WHAT IS YOURS?

I want you to confess your sins here and now, my son!

LOL!

Aha yes that's a good one!

We all have something that's a bit odd about us hehe!

 

[honestrosewater]

What assumptions do you guys agree on here? We need to have sensory contact with our environment. Encroachment on an individual's will should be minimized (though this is too imprecise). A person's thoughts are private. ?

If you compare looking with touching, I can see some of Dave's argument. Society seems to have acknowledged the concept of personal space and agreed that people deserve to enjoy theirs freely. And it is hard to ignore people blatantly staring at you. (I mean staring to be contact in excess of the incidental environmental contact that we need to have for navigation.) It's something that you notice just as easily as someone waving at you or saying something to you. Staring is similar to groping, no? The physical implementation is different, but the social behaviors are analogous.

If someone asked you to stop staring at them, would you?

Who cares what they think? People are scenery! Just stare and grab yourself an eyefull, is what I say. Who cares!? Girls insist on wearing short skirts and showing cleavage = I'm staring.

I don't get laid much because I'm fat and ugly and unconfident with women... so what have I got to lose? Girls are mostly stuck-up and snobby, so I'm going to blatantly stare and who cares what they may think?

It's funny to see girls in miniskirts constantly tugging their skirt down ha ha.

By the bye, the first thing this made me think of was the profile of an anger-retaliatory rapist. I'm not sure what, if anything, that implies, but it's something to think about.

 

[lurflurf]

By the bye, the first thing this made me think of was the profile of an anger-retaliatory rapist. I'm not sure what, if anything, that implies, but it's something to think about.

It might imply a tendency to think about rapists, it's something to think about.

 

[honestrosewater]

It might imply a tendency to think about rapists, it's something to think about.

Hah, true. But being raped or getting frequent aggressive sexual attention from people can make learning about rapists seem worthwhile. The more you know about them, the easier it is to avoid an attack or minimize your injuries if one occurs. My risk of being raped is probably relatively high. I'm female, 27, single, live alone, lots of men find me attractive, I don't wear burkas, and I am actually trying to attract the attention of some men -- I'd like to find a nice one. There's lots of controversy over rape statistic, though, so it's hard to gauge your real risk.

 

[Bourbaki1123]

Cute response - smile, blush and look away
Cool response - smile, talk to her, get her phone number
Geek response - go over to her and say, wow cool mac book - what processor does it have? While totally ignoring her.

you missed the computer scientist with Aspergers response/Rude geek response(I assume you picked the polite geek, because the rude geek would also do this); tell her her mac book is overpriced garbage and she is stupid for buying it. Even though she is stupid, she is pretty so you would be glad to build her a better one; you know how to get around the protections for Os X so you can set up a dual boot with Os X and the copy of Windows 7 you have in a hidden partition devoted only to storing Warez.

Really, I like that response the best if you don't really want to get a date but you nonetheless like to help the misguided.

Or you could try to convert her to Linux and keep doing so long after she has expressed little interest. Then you could offer to send her an invite to any number of private torrent communities.

If you are looking for some other kind of advice indirectly read this:
If you want to meet women try places where people share common interests. For instance, if you like art or film go to some film and art festivals. If you dig math, there are a surprising number of attractive girls at math talks (especially ones where students present, I went to one last year and there were definitely some lookers there amongst the old bearded men and sweaty pimply faced yet bright eyed geeks).

There has to be some kind of music you are into, go to local concerts. My friend met his girl friend of 9 months at one. Although honestly the music there was terrible.

 

[Cryptonic]

Sorry, what exactly is an "anger-retaliatory rapist"?

Are you accusing me of being a potential rapist because I admire women?

Seriously, you must... argh I don't even need to say it.

EDIT: Next you will say that masturbation is rape!

 

[bp_psy]

EDIT: Next you will say that masturbation is rape!

Well, Does the hand actually give the consent ?

 

[JasonRox]

I check out girls all the time. Not often I stare though.

 

[DaveC426913]

Dave, you are probably nice guy if I met you, but seriously, you are being dishonest with us/yourself.

Nobody's "perfect" = right? So, tell me, what is YOUR idiosyncracy/"sin"/weirdo-behaviour? EVERYBODY has some weirdo/weird-*** behavioural silliness...so, WHAT IS YOURS?

I want you to confess your sins here and now, my son!

LOL!

In https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=2362280&postcount=93" I explicitly said - for all to see - that "I am a terrible starer". That is 2 posts before this whole 'who cares' discussion started in post 95.

I am not judging right/wrong or should/shouldn't. (I can't - I am a perp too.)

I am directly addressing the misconception that there is no potential for harm, which JoeVieira started in https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=2363138&postcount=97".

In a nutshell, I stare, but I do not delude myself into thinking there's nothing wrong with it.


That is all I've been addressing. The whole 'who cares we're all human' argument is a straw man.

 

[Cryptonic]

Well, Does the hand actually give the consent ?

No, it doesn't. I rape myself frequently.

Hey Honestrosewater, I want to ask you a question: What is YOUR "sin"? What do YOU do that is "naughty"? I like to admire women's physical beauty - that is MY "sin". What is yours? Do you like to check out guys? Or are you asexual? Nobody on this Earth is "perfect", so you MUST have some sort of character blemish. What is it? What part of you do you wish you didn't carry around?

Or are you perfect?

 

[JasonRox]

There are much better things to do with women than stare at them.

 

[JasonRox]

No, it doesn't. I rape myself frequently.

Hey Honestrosewater, I want to ask you a question: What is YOUR "sin"? What do YOU do that is "naughty"? I like to admire women's physical beauty - that is MY "sin". What is yours? Do you like to check out guys? Or are you asexual? Nobody on this Earth is "perfect", so you MUST have some sort of character blemish. What is it? What part of you do you wish you didn't carry around?

Or are you perfect?

Just so you know there is a line between... Horny and admiring a women's beauty. Sounds like you're horny.

 

[Cryptonic]

There are much better things to do with women than stare at them.

Now THERE'S a rapist if I ever met one LOL!

 

[Cryptonic]

I must say this is a funny discourse.

 

[honestrosewater]

Sorry, what exactly is an "anger-retaliatory rapist"?

It's a type in one of the rapist typologies. I don't recall who developed it, and I can't find a single source that explains it succinctly. I read cases of actual rapists from various sources, and your comments reminded me of theirs. It's hard to pinpoint exactly, but here are some things: the total lack of concern for what the woman wants or thinks, viewing them as having no respectable will and the sole purpose of giving you pleasure (them being scenery), the suggestion that they are all alike in their bad behavior towards you (being stuck-up and snobby), your justification that they are asking for it by behaving in certain ways, your being entertained by their discomfort or humiliation.

The ANGER-RETALIATION rapist
is getting even with women for real or imaginary wrongs.
They are angry with women and are using sex as a weapon to punish them.
The crime itself is usually not premeditated, and a "blitz" attack is often used.
The actual sexual assault will take little time, and the whole encounter may be very short. Once the pent-up
anger is vented, the rapist quickly leaves.
This type of rapist tends to attack women who are somewhat older than he is, often somebody who symbolizes
somebody else.
They like to rip or tear the clothing off, and will often use their fists, hitting the victim in the stomach usually.
After such an attack, the offender feels a great deal of relief, until his tension and anger against women as the
source of all his problems builds up again. The biological clock on a rapist such as this is 6 months to a year.

"www-psychology.concordia.ca/fac/Laurence/forensic/rapists.pdf"[/URL][/quote]Actually, now that I look at this again, maybe you sound more like the power-assertive type. You don't have to sound like any type, of course. It was just an association that I immediately made.

[quote]Are you accusing me of being a potential rapist because I admire women?[/quote]Well, the short answer would be no. That is why I explicitly admitted that it might not imply anything. The longer answer would be that it makes more sense to me to say that everyone is a potential rapist and then assign each person a probability of committing a rape in a given time period. Under that interpretation, I am saying that the beliefs about and attitudes toward women that you expressed sound similar to those expressed by people who have committed rape, so your chances of becoming a rapist might be higher.

[quote]EDIT: Next you will say that masturbation is rape![/QUOTE]Why would I say that?

 

[bp_psy]

No, it doesn't. I rape myself frequently.

No problem there.As long it is not in a anger-retaliatory kind of way.

 

[JasonRox]

Mocking rape.

I'm not impressed.

 

[honestrosewater]

Hey Honestrosewater, I want to ask you a question: What is YOUR "sin"? What do YOU do that is "naughty"? I like to admire women's physical beauty - that is MY "sin". What is yours? Do you like to check out guys? Or are you asexual? Nobody on this Earth is "perfect", so you MUST have some sort of character blemish. What is it? What part of you do you wish you didn't carry around?

Or are you perfect?

Like Dave and Jason have said, this does not address the topic. No one is claiming that anyone is perfect or can be. And I am not talking about admiring beauty. I am talking about your beliefs about a class of people and a failure to acknowledge or respect the wills of the people who you are interacting with.

I agree that people are scenery in a way and that there are practical and perhaps theoretical limitations to how much you can or should care about what others want. However, I think there is point where a person's will or desire should influence your behavior, and I don't see that you agree with that. This is why I asked if you would stop staring at someone if they asked you to.

I have already said that I do look at men and women as sexual objects without asking their permission, though I don't blatantly stare (or yell or honk or make obscene gestures/comments or do other things that I would consider rude or annoying). It's not something that I've given much thought before. But now that I think about it, I do see some things that are objectionable about it.

 

[DaveC426913]

I have already said that I do look at men and women as sexual objects without asking their permission, though I don't blatantly stare (or yell or honk or make obscene gestures/comments or do other things that I would consider rude or annoying). It's not something that I've given much thought before. But now that I think about it, I do see some things that are objectionable about it.

To Cryptonic et al: No one (including me) is suggesting it is a reprehensible act to check someone out.

I would be happy if y'all acknowledged that
- there is a grey area between 'checking out' and 'ogling - who cares what they think'
- there is a point in that grey area where it will likely cause stress and anxiety in the target
- the problem lies in not knowing (or caring) where within the grey area lies the boundary beyond which harm occurs
- crossing that line, regardless of whether intentionally or unintentionally is the real injustice here.

 

[muppet]

Going back a bit: do women who get asked out spontaeously by guys (who may or may not have been staring at them) have any issues with the guy making an approach based entirely on their physical form?

*Unless, of course, that apart from being drop-dead gorgeous you've somehow given him an easy way in; I still cling to the hope of finding a stunner who's set aside her copy of Weinberg's field theory text to relax with the Hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy whilst drinking decent coffee and audibly listening to Nina Simone :!)

 

[Huckleberry]

While that may be true, all we're talking about here is simply respecting others' personal space.


You are arguing reducto ad absurdum. But it doesn't apply.

There is simply a general rule: respect others' personal space.

He is nonverbally communicating a message to her. His message is both clear and ambiguous at the same time.

It is clear that he is very attracted to her, and is devoting his full attention to her, that is he undressing her with his eyes. It is ambiguous as to his intent.

It has nothing to do with a judgement of the guy, she is wise to err on the side of caution. Her defenses go up. The consequences of her thinking the worst and being wrong about him are much smaller than her thinking the best and being wrong.

Straw man argument. Irrelevant.

At first I was talking about what is right or wrong and you said we were discussing what is harmful. So I talk about the harms of looking. Toss some latin words and call my argument a strawman when it describes absurd, yes, but very real harmful human behaviour caused by judgement. Now we are talking about respecting personal space, presumably because that is the right thing to do because it doesn't cause discomfort. (which isn't true anyway)

You talk of the effects of a man's stare on a woman and say that there is no judgement on her part. This is the list you provided.

You must realize that the target has no idea that
- you are a nice guy and you wil respect her space
- your attentions are no more intrusive than someone asking for directions to the subway
- you are not about to approach her, meaning she'll have to deal with a possible pickup (in-and-of-itself, probably one of the most stressful situations a person can spontaneously find themselves in)
- you are not actually lusting after her
- you are not a loon

Every line starts with 'you' which implies the viewer in this case. She is both being judged and judging in return, rightfully so I say.

The only harm you mention is stress caused by not knowing his intentions. Yes, that can be stressful. So we should reveal our intentions with our actions and our words and our eyes, rather than hide them in pretense. In this case you underestimate the amount of information that can be transmitted in a glance. The reaction that takes place is nonverbal, but perhaps much clearer and honest because of it. Being caught staring signals interest. Getting caught is what is supposed to happen if one wants to convey that interest. If the response is a smile then it might be a good idea to approach the woman of interest. If she sneers then approaching would be out of the question. From my experience women are not as defensive as you would make them out to be.

Even if a man's unknown intentions do cause a woman discomfort, her personal space does not extend to his thoughts. Uncertainty may cause discomfort, but both uncertainty and discomfort are a fact of life that people have to deal with, men and women alike, just by the fact that we are mortal creatures with stomachs and independent thought. I don't know what she'll think of me so I better not look at her is no way that I choose to live my life. That's the discomfort of the guy who hides behind partitions. She is free to think whatever pleases her and I'll do the same. Isn't that what respecting others personal space is all about in this context?

You say that not looking at a woman is a way to not cause her discomfort. I disagree with this. Even if she walks around all day and doesn't catch a single guy checking her out (which would be uncomfortable for some women too) there is still the possibility that something truly harmful can happen. Whether guys look at her or not, none of the real danger is lessened to her. If anything, catching guys staring at her works to her benefit, because it makes people's interests clear. She can trust at least that much to be true, which is one thing she didn't know if nobody looks under the pretense of being gentlemanly. Saying not to look at women sexually is the same as saying not to think about women sexually. It's not a viable option unless one is in a commited relationship with one particular person.