COVID-19 Coronavirus Containment Efforts

[Dr. Courtney]

Well, you don't seem to need "the facts" to recommend that: "sick people stay home, everyone washes their hands early and often, avoids touching common surfaces, and practices other procedures relative to the spread of respiratory illnesses".

1) These were all well established for respiratory viruses for a long time, even back when I took microbiology.
2) I am recommending, not shaming, and not threatening legal action.

So what is the problem with not getting together in large groups of people (where statistically it is more likely (just because it has a larger sample size) a not yet diagnosed but infected person will be spewing on infections particles for others to get and spread around the community.

I have no problem with people making that choice. I would not criticize churches than have closed or people who have stayed home. Fact is, in Georgia, where I am now, over 80% of churches above the specified size are closed and holding their services online. Even if asymptomatic carriers can spread the disease, the recommendation from government should be very effective. Thinner crowds allow for a larger radius.

To me this is just another sad case of its OK for others but not my group.

Not at all. I don't object to the busses running, the planes flying, the restaurants being open, Walmart and other retail establishments being open, and so on. Voluntary compliance with recommendations seems sufficient (at least where I am in rural Georgia) to "flatten the curve." I see no need in rural Georgia (or Louisiana) for mandatory closures, especially not of activities protected by the 1st Amendment.

Of course, if the 1st Amendment is repealed, then I would stop classifying those activities differently from others.

This is just like one of the factors in Iran's rapid increase of Corona virus (people continuing their normal religious practices and licking religious relics or whatever).

No licking in the churches I've attended.

Some of the shame will be on people using these lame kind of excuses!
Adapt to the demands of the times.

I took an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies. The "demands of the times" shall never change that. If you regard the Constitution of the United States as a "lame excuse" then you are an enemy.

 

[BillTre]

I took an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies. The "demands of the times" shall never change that. If you regard the Constitution of the United States as a "lame excuse" then you are an enemy.

Actually the the demands of the times do result in the interpretation of the constitution. such happened in the civil war as well as in WWII (but not a really great example).

No good luck with your efforts to spread disease, whether its your right or not.

 

[StoneTemplePython]

trying to defuse this a bit
Is there a consensus on people physically gathering in a church but everyone maintaining at least a 6 foot distance from everyone else?

 

[russ_watters]

Where is the convincing scientific data that...

Until I see the data, I'm going to church. Because my faith tells me I should...

Your statement moots your question: yes, you choose faith over science here. At least own it!

...and the 1st Amendment tells me I can.

In many cases the 1st Amendment guarantees your right to follow your faith. Maybe you're right that this is such a case, but I'm pretty sure you're not. But I expect this to be tested, so we'll see.

Potential legal angles where the state may shut down a church:
-Building codes
-Health codes
-State/federal disaster declarations (+FEMA, CDC powers)

It may be harder if you have your service in the field of a privately-owned farm, but activities that happen in buildings are fairly heavily regulated.

 

[russ_watters]

trying to defuse this a bit
Is there a consensus on people physically gathering in a church but everyone maintaining at least a 6 foot distance from everyone else?

Unless a church is poorly attended, I don't think that is possible.

 

[Astronuc]

We are well into the phase of community-spread.

The 50-year-old man was confirmed Tuesday as the first “community spread” case of the virus in New York. His wife, 14-year-old daughter, 20-year-old son and a neighbor who drove him to the hospital have all now contracted the virus, bringing the total number of New York cases to six.

The man, who has an underlying respiratory condition, remains hospitalized in the intensive care unit. It is still unclear how he contracted the virus having not traveled recently to the countries on the CDC watchlist.

https://www.politico.com/states/new...chester-man-confirmed-for-coronavirus-1265184

Back on March 4 - Just a day after a Westchester County man was confirmed as New York’s second case of the new coronavirus, the authorities revealed on Wednesday just how readily it was spreading, saying that nine people connected to the man had all tested positive.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/04/nyregion/coronavirus-nyc-yeshiva-university.html

Hence the 'authoritative decree' to limit large gatherings, especially in confined places. Many people are contagious/infectious while being asymptomatic. From the office of Governor of New York, "
Eighty percent of people who contract COVID-19 self-resolve — and may not even have symptoms."
https://www.newrochelleny.com/CORONAVIRUS

March 12 - Down the block from Young Israel of New Rochelle, the synagogue linked to many of the cases, restaurants on North Avenue were nearly empty; among the few people standing at bus stops or walking down the sidewalks nearby, a few face masks could be spotted.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/12/nyregion/coronavirus-new-rochelle-containment.html

Besides, the statistical analyses and epidemiology come after the fact, and the damage to health, and certainly death, cannot be undone.

As of March 18, 2020, 14:34 EDT, there were 538 confirmed cases of COVID-19 in Westchester County, most tied to the first case of community-spread infection, and NY City confirmed 1,339 COVID-19 cases. The gentlemen from New Rochelle had commuted to NY City, and some of those cases are tied to him.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/11/us/new-rochelle-attorney-containment-area/index.html
"The 50-year-old attorney, who works near Grand Central Station in Manhattan, tested positive for the virus on March 2 and was hospitalized at New York-Presbyterian/Columbia University Irving Medical Center, Cuomo said."
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/10/us/new-rochelle-coronavirus/index.html
"The containment zone surrounds a synagogue believed to be the epicenter of the outbreak. A man who lives in New Rochelle, works in Manhattan and attends the synagogue tested positive for the virus last week. The man's 20-year-old son attends Yeshiva University in Manhattan, and his 14-year-old daughter attends SAR Academy and High School in the Bronx."

I just happened to be in NY when all this was developing, but further north from Westchester. The rural area where I was staying saw the first COVID-19 case about March 12. On March 14, there were 4 cases, on March 16, 10 cases, and today 20 cases. There are several thousand people who commute to NY City from the county, and the infections likely happened with those commuting to the common destination in NY City, as well as those traveling across Westchester County. It is also possible that someone returning from a trip out of town brought the virus to the area.

It will take time and resources to develop an understanding of the transmission of the virus, but in the meantime, to prevent further spread, we must take precautions and limit public exposure.

 

[Ygggdrasil]

Getting closer. But not out of the woods just yet. Good onya, Australia! This is great news.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/lifestyle/health/coronavirus-australia-queensland-researchers-find-cure-want-drug-trial/news-story/93e7656da0cff4fc4d2c5e51706accb5?fbclid=IwAR2aRzgviKmf1kNBoEXyCX2nwVxHq3JoJ4g28advkESEnp3ThqHE_S3tUgk

"One of the two medications is a HIV drug, which has been superseded by “newer generation” HIV drugs, and the other is an anti-malaria drug called chloroquine which is rarely used and “kept on the shelf now” due to resistance to malaria."
These are currently registered and available drugs..so testing would only be to verify their efficiency at combating Covid-19. Testing for side effects would already have been completed.

Some quotes from the link you provided:

University of Queensland Centre for Clinical Research director Professor David Paterson told news.com.au today they have seen two drugs used to treat other conditions wipe out the virus in test tubes.

There are plenty of drugs that look like they work in the test tube that don't end up working (for any number of reasons) in humans.

He said one of the medications, given to some of the first people to test positive for COVID-19 in Australia, had already resulted in “disappearance of the virus” and complete recovery from the infection.

In ~98% of diagnosed cases, the virus completely disappears and patients completely recover from the infection without the drug, which is why a large clinical trial is needed to judge the efficacy of the treatment.

Regarding the actual drugs, there are other published studies that suggest chloroquine could be a treatment for COVID-19 (e.g see https://www.nature.com/articles/s41422-020-0282-0). It is worth noting that chloroquine has some fairly significant side effects (seizures, hearing damage, retinopathy and sudden effects on blood glucose, see https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/03/06/covid-19-small-molecule-therapies-reviewed) that could limit its effectiveness in people (whereas such side effects would not be seen in test tube studies).

The article does not actually specify which anti HIV drug is being used, but I know that various groups are studying the use of HIV protease inhibitor drugs (like lopinavir and ritonavir) against COVID-19, but there is no particular reason to think that these would work against COVID-19 because the COVID-19 protease is quite different from the HIV protease. However, there is some evidence that the combination of HIV protease inhbitors shows some efficacy in SARS and COVID-19 patients (https://www.sciencemag.org/news/202...r-other-existing-drugs-outwit-new-coronavirus).

Another good candidate for anti-COVID-19 therapy is Remdesvir, which also showed it can effectively stop viral replication in test tube studies (e.g. see https://www.nature.com/articles/s41422-020-0282-0). There are some promising anecdotes about it's potential (https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/03/did-experimental-drug-help-us-coronavirus-patient) but also other reports questioning its effectiveness (https://www.statnews.com/pharmalot/2020/03/13/gilead-coronavirus-covid19-clinical-trials/). There are clinical trial ongoing to test the efficacy of Remdesvir against COVID-19, so hopefully we'll have a more definitive answer soon.

Drugs that can help avoid the need for patients to be placed on ventilators or other specialized equipment would be a great help in addressing the current outbreak.

For those interested in the drugs being tested against COVID-19, here are two great articles summarizing ones being considered (though this is a rapidly moving field and others may have been identified in the meantime):
https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/03/06/covid-19-small-molecule-therapies-reviewed
https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/03/09/covid-19-biologic-therapies-reviewed

 

[russ_watters]

We are well into the phase of community-spread.

So, what exactly does that mean? I heard on the radio on the way home from work that my county, Montgomery County, has decided that since we are now in the "community-spread" phase, that contact tracing is no longer useful, and it has been suspended.

While at first glance that feels defeatist, if we're truly in a "community-spread" phase and as a result everyone is recommended to avoid contact with everyone else, then contact tracing really should be moot: anyone you would quarantine after identifying them is already supposed to be quarantined.

This isn't much, but it is the best confirmation I could find:
https://www.inquirer.com/health/cor...rmed-case-updates-testing-sites-20200318.html

 

[kyphysics]

This is not good news.
https://www.ft.com/content/859e9336-68db-11ea-a3c9-1fe6fedcca75

https://www.wsj.com/articles/singap...-second-wave-of-coronavirus-cases-11584445836

Possible counter-point:

Some of those nations may be seeing spikes due to travelers abroad returning home (and carrying the infection into the contained areas). See article I posted (not a subscriber, so I cannot see past the preview).

 

[Astronuc]

So, what exactly does that mean? I heard on the radio on the way home from work that my county, Montgomery County, has decided that since we are now in the "community-spread" phase, that contact tracing is no longer useful, and it has been suspended.

I edited my post to add information on the particular case of one man (an attorney who lives in New Rochelle and works in NY City) who spread the infection to at least 50 others (directly or indirectly) by March 11. 'Community-spread' means that the origin of the infection cannot be determined (at this time), and it is not clear at this time, how the attorney who transmitted the virus to others was infected. He may have had interaction with a traveler through Grand Central Station, or on the train, or on the sidewalk to or from work.

With limited resources and an ever increasing number of infections, health departments likely have to discontinue tracing backwards and focus on treating the ever increasing number of cases, as well as trying to encourage the population to isolate and/or distance in order to prevent continuing spread of the virus.

 

[Dr. Courtney]

And why do you think people are asked to limit social contact? Some whim? Are you saying that there is no evidence that the Coronavirus can be transmitted through airborn bodily fluids like a sneeze or cough, which is why people have been asked not to gather and maintain social distancing if there is a need to go out, like a need to buy food and medicine, most of which I'm trying to do online.

My wife, myself, and most folks we at our church have already reduced social contact by over 90%. For example, my social contact this week consists of an errand trip (spending 3x the usual amount to reduce needs for future trips) and a few hours with a group of less than 15 people maintaining all the social distancing recommendations. Next week, I plan to attend church for about an hour. I might buy gas, but I plan to pay at the pump, and I'm using gas at a rate that I may need to fill up once every couple months. Just about everyone else in church has refrained from the germ factories (public schools) and normal workplaces.

I'm keen to avoid sick people. I pay out of pocket for a whole year of my prescription meds so I only have to go to the pharmacy once a month. And I try and make my medical appointments and annual pharmacy trip at times to minimize interactions with sick people.

Are you trying to say that reducing social contact by 90+% is insufficient to "flatten the curve" even with all the other practices? You might as well try and ban new sexual partners. The human being is a social creature. We can reduce social interactions, but trying to force it down to zero is an unrealistic expectation. People will rebel. 90% reduction (with safe practices for the remaining 10%) should be enough.

Actually the the demands of the times due result in the interpretation of the constitution. such happened in the civil war as well as in WWII (but not a really great example).

No good luck with your efforts to spread disease, whether its your right or not.

I'm at greater risk of an injurious car accident on the way to Walmart than I am of spreading the disease in church. The Constitution I swore to "support and defend" is no more a "living, breathing document" than my marriage covenant or an employment contract. You may want to let your wife and employer know if your agreements "change with the times" without mutual consent.

Unless a church is poorly attended, I don't think that is possible.

Most folks are attending "online" these days. It's not hard to find a seat with a 6 ft distance from other people (except for my wife, of course.) It's easier to maintain that distance in church this week than in a most check-out lines.

 

[anorlunda]

This article is by one of our most staunch defenders of the 1st Amendment, Eugene Volokh. He explains why quarantines and other restrictions are constitutional and lawful.

https://reason.com/2020/03/18/why-i...ctions-flowing-from-the-coronavirus-response/

Why I'm Not (Yet?) Much Worried About the Civil Liberties Restrictions Flowing from the Coronavirus Response
The restrictions are less dangerous precisely because they are so broad and onerous.
EUGENE VOLOKH |THE VOLOKH CONSPIRACY | 3.18.2020 2:15 PM

 

[anorlunda]

I live in close quarters with about 900 old people. Many of them have health problems. The man next door is recovering from open heart surgery. The man across the street is in chemo-therapy. For people like that, the Coronavirus has been described as a nearly 100% efficient killing machine.

I don't want to be responsible for killing my friends and neighbors. That is why I am cutting all external activities. I may be able to avoid leaving this RV park at all for 6 weeks. I'm shamed by some other neighbors who insist on their right to do as they please and leave the park to play golf almost every day.

 

[Ygggdrasil]

Science is about data, not authoritative decrees.

Where is the convincing scientific data that a group of more than 50 people is more dangerous than a smaller group as long as all the other precautions are taken? If the sick people stay home, everyone washes their hands early and often, avoids touching common surfaces, and practices other procedures relative to the spread of respiratory illnesses, what is the problem?

Until I see the data, I'm going to church. Because my faith tells me I should, and the 1st Amendment tells me I can.

Show me the data, or keep your shame to yourself.

There is quite a bit of data supporting the effectiveness of instituting social distancing policies on stopping disease spreads from studies of past pandemics/epidemics, such as the 1918 flu pandemic ("This reduction in the clinical attack rate translates to an estimated 260 per 100 000 lives having been saved, and suggests that social distancing interventions could play a major role in mitigating the public health impact of future influenza pandemics") or the 2014 ebola outbreak ("Among all the control measures, we find that social distancing had the most impact on the control of the 2014 Ebola epidemic in Libreria followed by isolation and quarantining").

A study of the 1918 flu pandemic shows the "flattening the curve" strategy exemplified in studying two cities, Philadelphia (which did not ban public gatherings until late in the epidemic) and St Louis which was early to ban public gatherings and institute social distancing:

Lets you believe that this is cherry picking data, here's a chart from a study comparing death rates from the 1918 flu in various cities based on when they began to institute government-enforced (not voluntary) responses such as closing schools or instituting social distancing through bans of large gatherings:

(images taken from: here)

There is very strong data supporting the effectiveness of government imposition of social distancing (defined by the CDC as "remaining out of congregate settings, avoiding mass gatherings, and maintaining distance (approximately 6 feet or 2 meters) from others when possible") in attenuating the spread of an epidemic/pandemic disease.

 

[Mary Conrads Sanburn]

17 MARCH 2020

NEWS
First US clinical trial of Covid-19 vaccine candidate begins

The first US clinical trial of a Covid-19 vaccine candidate, which is Moderna’s mRNA-1273, has started at Kaiser Permanente Washington Health Research Institute (KPWHRI) in Seattle.

Funded by the National Institutes of Health (NIH)’s National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID), the trial has dosed its first participant.

mRNA-1273 is an mRNA vaccine designed to target SARS-CoV-2 encoding a prefusion stabilised form of the Spike (S) protein. Moderna selected the candidate in alliance with the Vaccine Research Center (VRC) at the NIAID.

The Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovations (CEPI) funding supported the production of the first clinical batch.

During the Phase I trial, the safety and immunogenicity of 25μg, 100μg, 250μg dose levels of mRNA-1273 given on a two-dose vaccination schedule 28 days apart will be assessed in a total of 45 healthy adults aged 18 to 55.

The study involves a follow-up of 12 months after the second vaccination.

The primary objective is the safety and reactogenicity of a two-dose vaccination schedule, while the secondary objective is immunogenicity to the SARS-CoV-2 S protein.

Moderna chief medical officer Tal Zaks said: “This study is the first step in the clinical development of an mRNA vaccine against SARS-CoV-2, and we expect it to provide important information about safety and immunogenicity. We are actively preparing for a potential Phase II study under our own IND.

“We are grateful to NIH for their ongoing collaboration and to CEPI for funding the initial manufacturing of mRNA-1273 and are proud to be included with the many companies, worldwide health agencies and NGOs working on a possible response to the novel Coronavirus outbreak.”

The potential Phase II and any subsequent trials will further evaluate the safety and immunogenicity of the vaccine candidate in a larger population. Moderna has already started manufacturing the mRNA-1273 material for the Phase II study.

###
https://www.clinicaltrialsarena.com/news/first-us-covid-19-vaccine-trial-moderna/

Geez Wiz, I need to walk my doggie GRACIE Girl! She makes me happy and Merlina the cat just hates it when she is all alone in our house. Oh my, there has got to be love!

 

[Astronuc]

Apparently Seattle's and Washington State's efforts (quarantine/isolation, social distancing, closing public events and discouraging gatherings) is working somewhat to reduce the number of cases.

Wa state reports 1187 confirmed COVID-19 cases (66 deaths) today. Yesterday it was 1012, and the day before 904. I've been tracking this daily, as well as NY.

NY State confirms 2,382 COVID-19 cases today, yesterday 1374, and the day before 950 cases.

 

[BillTre]

I'm at greater risk of an injurious car accident on the way to Walmart than I am of spreading the disease in church.

I would like to see your data on that one.

 

[russ_watters]

I'm at greater risk of an injurious car accident on the way to Walmart than I am of spreading the disease in church.

I would like to see your data on that one.

Let's try:
In South Korea, most of the cases of Coronavirus come from a single church population. Conservatively, as of this edition of wikipedia, 9,000 of 230,000 members of the church are symptomatic, or 3.9%. That's the best current data we have for your odds of getting the Coronavirus in church if one person in the congregation gets infected and attends church ("spreading" was an odd choice of words, and a mismatch...). Note: that's more than one location, so the members get around.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shincheonji_Church_of_Jesus#Membership

Annually, 3 million Americans are injured in car accidents. If every American averages one trip per day, including multi-passenger trips, then one trip to Walmart carries roughly a 0.000092% chance of injury in a car accident. Or 0.000046% on the way to Walmart.
https://www.driverknowledge.com/car-accident-statistics/

 

[chirhone]

A few words from Clint Eastwood:

Heartbreak Ridge: You Improvise, You Overcome, You Adapt

Martial law?

I wonder why Iran would release 80,000 of its prisoners. How can they take them back? Maybe the people in the country is easy to find because they know each other so have nowhere to hide? Would the US do that too?

Some in my country are also proposing to release the maximum security prisoners, following other country.

Maybe they can become the frontlines, the first wave to shield us from this corona invasion.

 

[russ_watters]

I wonder why Iran would release 80,000 of its prisoners. How can they take them back? Maybe the people in the country is easy to find because they know each other so have nowhere to hide? Would the US do that too?

Some in my country are also proposing to release the maximum security prisoners, following other country.

I don't see the point in releasing prisoners. However:

My nearest big city, Philadelphia, has announced they will not be arresting people for "nonviolent" crimes, because the criminal justice system has been shut down and there's no way to process them for bail, trial, etc. Otherwise they'd just be arresting them and leaving them in jail indefinitely.

So if you happen to be in Philadelphia and have been considered stealing drugs from a prostitute, now would be a good time for it.

 

[anorlunda]

I don't see the point in releasing prisoners.

It depends on whether the virus is spreading inside the prison gates. It is analogous to that cruise ship with the virus onboard. It makes for very bad press to not let them off the ship.

But in terms of flattening the curve, locking down the prisons makes the prisoners less exposed to the virus than the general public. At least for the time being.

 

[vxiaoyu18]

The virus will not impose mercy and rules on human beings. The sooner quarantine measures are taken, the safer it will be. On one side is the economy, on the other side is life. We believe that life and family are more important than wealth. Only people living a happy life can create greater economic value. Therefore, our government has chosen to protect people's lives and has invested 19.73 billion us dollars to fight the epidemic.

 

[chirhone]

The virus will not impose mercy and rules on human beings. The sooner quarantine measures are taken, the safer it will be. On one side is the economy, on the other side is life. We believe that life and family are more important than wealth. Only people living a happy life can create greater economic value. Therefore, our government has chosen to protect people's lives and has invested 19.73 billion us dollars to fight the epidemic.

Another big problem with our city government now is there are 400,000 families who are homeless. Not only do they have to feed them daily but to find shelter to quarantine them. The Mayor said her money can last up to 3 weeks only. After that. It is a problem how to feed them. If this fails. Riots can result as they invade the homes.

 

[Ygggdrasil]

This is not good news.
https://www.ft.com/content/859e9336-68db-11ea-a3c9-1fe6fedcca75

https://www.wsj.com/articles/singap...-second-wave-of-coronavirus-cases-11584445836

Possible counter-point:

Some of those nations may be seeing spikes due to travelers abroad returning home (and carrying the infection into the contained areas). See article I posted (not a subscriber, so I cannot see past the preview).

The observation in the Financial Times article that officials are seeing the re-emergence of the virus in China and South Korea after initially getting it under control (whether through local spread or re-introduction from travelers), seems to support the notion from the ICL report (discussed in my post #1322 and @nsaspook's post #1351) that countries might have to periodically re-institute social distancing until a more permanent solution (like a vaccine) can be developed.

 

[kyphysics]

So if you happen to be in Philadelphia and have been considered stealing drugs from a prostitute, now would be a good time for it.

You'd have to use some sort of force or threat of force to steal, though. Unless even THAT is non-violent, then those people would still get locked up, no?

To the larger point, it's about trying to figure out a lesser evil in all of this.

The ethics are not easy. I don't know if I'd agree with these policies (we have something similar in my city), but I feel local authorities are trying to do the best with what they have been dealt in this medical pandemic situation.

I'd personally be more selective about the criminal, though. A life-long criminal with a non-violent charge: nope, keep him in jail. A first-time offender with a non-violent charge: let's consider that person.

 

[vxiaoyu18]

Another big problem with our city government now is there are 400,000 families who are homeless. Not only do they have to feed them daily but to find shelter to quarantine them. The Mayor said her money can last up to 3 weeks only. After that. It is a problem how to feed them. If this fails. Riots can result as they invade the homes.

People in every country are close groups, they all have grandmother's DNA, people on the street, they are all your distant relatives, they are all your brothers and sisters, it's a perfect relationship. When the government is in economic difficulties and cannot take care of them, I think it is necessary to :1) call on people to unite and take care of them together and help them return to normal life. Set up volunteer websites and spread out volunteer service points so that those in need know where to get help. In our country, we do the same, when in trouble, we will also donate money and food, beg for food, not to mention, generally don't let them go hungry. 2) let them talk more about how they can get help from others and face difficulties and challenges together, instead of resorting to violence to hurt each other. 3) jobs in the city give priority to them, and at the same time, seek help or work outside the city to give them new hope. You're on the ground, better informed, you can talk to each other, get more and better attention.

 

[chirhone]

People in every country are a close group, they each have the DNA of their original grandmother in them, the people on the street, they are all your distant relatives, they are all your brothers and sisters, it is an unassailable relationship. When the government is in economic difficulties and cannot take care of them, I think it is necessary to: 1) appeal to people to unite and take care of them together and help them return to normal life. In our country, we also do this, when in trouble, we will also take the initiative to donate money and food, begging for food, not to mention, generally will not let them starve. 2) give them more publicity, how to get everyone's help, face difficulties and challenges together, rather than rely on violence to get, mutual harm. 3) look outside the city for help or jobs to give them new hope.

Right now everyone is in shortage of food and have to line up 1 hour or more just to limited stocks. I don't even have much food. I hope it doesn't end up like Italy.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/18/europe/italy-coronavirus-lockdown-intl/index.html

"Italy is entering its fourth week of the worst national crisis since World War II with no end in sight.
More than 60 million people are living under an increasingly unbearable lockdown that is growing tighter by the day. The stores that remain open are shuttering earlier and police are patrolling in ever-greater numbers, chasing families out for walks back into their homes and ensuring no one is outside without a valid reason.

Even so, the number of novel Coronavirus cases in the country is rising at a rate of around 3,500 new cases or more every day, and the death toll has topped 2,500."

 

[vxiaoyu18]

Even so, the number of novel Coronavirus cases in the country is rising at a rate of around 3,500 new cases or more every day, and the death toll has topped 2,500."

Italy did so for a reason, because it had chosen freedom to resist isolation and was therefore in trouble. Therefore, the data should be transparent and quarantine measures should be in place as soon as possible, regardless of the country or system. Viruses have no boundaries, no rules, do a good job of isolation measures, have the freedom to survive.

 

[chirhone]

Italy did so for a reason, because it had chosen freedom to resist isolation and was therefore in trouble. Therefore, the data should be transparent and quarantine measures should be in place as soon as possible, regardless of the country or system. Viruses have no boundaries, no rules, do a good job of isolation measures, have the freedom to survive.

As someone so familiar with logistics in china. Can you help us with our imminent 75,000 cases? https://asia.nikkei.com/Opinion/Phi...4gSj6i2JjS0bx32C5e6akxjdYjvDAIPYb40TYN7ptKzxo

"Manila lockdown comes far too late after Duterte tried to placate China".

This is the first time lockdown happened since world war II. Most were just infants then. Will you be willing to come here when invited to work with the government. On first day. We allowed people with working ID to report for work. It resulted in chaos. So we made another rule. And another. We need experts like you to work with us.

 

[kyphysics]

Possibly lost in all of this discussion is what the heck is China going to do about LONG-TERM banning of the domestication and sale of wildlife in cramped wet markets like the one in Wuhan, where animal viruses can pass from animal-to-animal and animal-to-human easily?

After 2003's SARS, the Chinese government lifted their temporary ban and these same behaviors that led to SARS continued taking place and brought about COVID19.

Can the world community do anything (outside of mere political pressure and sanctions) to actually stop China from relaxing their ban again - similar to post-SARS years?

There is a part of me that is simply angry at the situation we all face as humans. The Chinese people are innocent. But, the Chinese government is not here. I wish we could punish the Chinese government.

What can be done to prevent another global catastrophe like this in the future?

 

[vxiaoyu18]

As someone so familiar with logistics in china. Can you help us with our imminent 75,000 cases? https://asia.nikkei.com/Opinion/Phi...4gSj6i2JjS0bx32C5e6akxjdYjvDAIPYb40TYN7ptKzxo

Every country has its own freedom. It is up to each country to choose its own systems and methods. China does not interfere in the internal affairs of other countries. We are ready to enhance learning and exchanges with other countries for common progress. We are ready to provide equal and mutually beneficial cooperation so that people in all countries can live a better life. Just as we don't interfere with ant colonies or lions, I think every colony needs the experience of human and non-human growth. I think it is only when war breaks out between them that I think the UN peacekeepers - the UN peacekeepers - need to get involved. It is necessary to take appropriate precautions to deal with the worst affected areas. This is the scientific method, not the political method. In hard-hit China, we have also imposed strong quarantine measures on the wuhan area and the same harsh penalties for those who flee. The same is true abroad. Personally, I believe that the Philippines has learned to use China's anti-virus experience because it has realized that China's anti-virus experience has been practiced and achieved good results. When it comes to politics, this is baseless nonsense. Time will tell.

The article deviated somewhat from the truth. China is not asking the Philippines to do anything. If so, please provide proof, I join you in scolding our country. On the contrary, China has actively provided assistance to all countries in the world, including the Philippines.
Why stop Chinese medical supplies like masks when the us is short of basic medical supplies? Personally, I think this is something that needs to be corrected. No matter which country the mask comes from, the virus will be stopped by the mask, right?

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According to my current situation, the Chinese government has provided medical protection material assistance to Pakistan, Laos, Thailand, Iran, South Korea, Japan and other countries and the African union (au). Italy, France, Spain, Greece, Serbia, the European Union, Cambodia, the Philippines, Egypt, South Africa, Iraq, Ethiopia, kazakhstan, belarus, Cuba, Chile and dozens of other countries and regions are providing anti-disease material assistance and supporting the purchase of medical supplies by many friendly countries in the Chinese market.

 

[Astronuc]

Current situation in Switzerland, 18.3.2020, 3 pm:
Confirmed in Switzerland

Number of cases
Tested positive: about 3028
Confirmed: 2772

Number who have died: 21
https://www.bag.admin.ch/bag/en/hom...-cov/situation-schweiz-und-international.html

Testing and cases reported
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-testing

 

[phinds]

The virus will be blocked by the mask, no matter which country the mask is from, right?

No. Most people don't wear the masks correctly and even when they do they still touch their faces, sometimes MORE than they would if not wearing the masks so if you don't have it, the masks aren't much use. What the masks are really good at is keeping the already-infected from spreading it more.

 

[vxiaoyu18]

No. Most people don't wear the masks correctly and even when they do they still touch their faces, sometimes MORE than they would if not wearing the masks so if you don't have it, the masks aren't much use. What the masks are really good at is keeping the already-infected from spreading it more.

In my opinion, in crowded places or places where people gather with strangers, because you don't know who is infected, wearing a mask is a good way to prevent the spread of droplets, which is the most deadly form of transmission, and this is a necessary precaution. If you cough, sneeze or have a fever, you must wear a mask for yourself and for others. Of course, in sparsely populated areas or open Spaces, you don't have to wear a mask, and I don't wear a mask either at home or downstairs, where there are fewer people.

 

[mfb]

Little bit of humor:
A funny "Torn" adaption (with more background)
Meme collection

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@Dr. Courtney: Staying at home when you know you are sick, washing hands and so on can reduce the risk to get and spread the virus but they don't eliminate it, and you know not everyone is following this advice. The more people you have together the more likely someone is infected, and the more people are there that can get infected. It's simple mathematics. South Korea is an example where a church was responsible for the overall national outbreak.
If your faith tells you to endanger yourself and others then I hope it's not a widespread faith. A benevolent god should allow people to protect themselves I think. Or, you know, not allow pandemics at all.

"Italy is entering its fourth week of the worst national crisis since World War II with no end in sight.
More than 60 million people are living under an increasingly unbearable lockdown that is growing tighter by the day. The stores that remain open are shuttering earlier and police are patrolling in ever-greater numbers, chasing families out for walks back into their homes and ensuring no one is outside without a valid reason.

Even so, the number of novel Coronavirus cases in the country is rising at a rate of around 3,500 new cases or more every day, and the death toll has topped 2,500."

The overall cases are still growing quickly but the relative growth has been going down. At the time China had this pattern they also had 30,000 to 40,000 confirmed cases. From there on their daily increases went down. Deaths peaked two weeks later at about twice the rate.
If Italy follows the same pattern then we get ~4000 new cases per day for one more week or so, followed by a relatively rapid drop. Deaths would reach a peak of ~750/day. Overall deaths could end up at 15,000.