Covid Variant Omicron (B.1.1.529)

[PeroK]

I'm not trying to make a point, other than what the data appears to be saying.

It sounds like you're saying that everyone who died of COVID would have died anyway, only when they were younger. Look at it this way: if someone went around murdering all the people of age 90+, that would not increase life expectancy! Despite your interpretating the data that way.

 

[cmb]

Please don't paint me out to be some sort of Covid denialist just because I dared to ask how dangerous Omicron actually is.

All diseases are dangerous (as well as murderers [not sure why that is a recurring theme here?] and heart disease). I am just asking about Omicron in perspective. Is it any more harmful than other diseases which are not reportable? I accept that we don't know yet. My point, only point, is that we should want to know this, and the reason I think we should want to know this is so that we do not lose our perspective on risks in life. That is all.

 

[gmax137]

Source:
https://investors.modernatx.com/news-releases/news-release-details/moderna-announces-strategy-address-omicron-b11529-sars-cov-2/

Related Moderna tests:

Source:
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/study/NCT04927065

AstraZeneca tests the Covid-19-vaccine AZD2816 based on the gene of the Beta variant:
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04973449

BionTech tests the Covid-19-vaccine BNT162b2SA based on the gene of the Beta variant:
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04368728

BionTech tests the Covid-19-multivariant vaccine BNT162b2 (B.1.1.7 + B.1.617.2) based on the genes of the Alpha and Delta variants:
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT05004181

So, if they are working on "better boosters" would it be wise for someone already vaccinated to wait for these to be distributed? Or smarter to get the available booster now?

 

[PeroK]

So, if they are working on "better boosters" would it be wise for someone already vaccinated to wait for these to be distributed? Or smarter to get the available booster now?

A shot in the arm is worth two in the lab!

 

[PeroK]

Please don't paint me out to be some sort of Covid denialist just because I dared to ask how dangerous Omicron actually is.

All diseases are dangerous (as well as murderers [not sure why that is a recurring theme here?] and heart disease). I am just asking about Omicron in perspective. Is it any more harmful than other diseases which are not reportable? I accept that we don't know yet. My point, only point, is that we should want to know this, and the reason I think we should want to know this is so that we do not lose our perspective on risks in life. That is all.

I suspect that's what the rest of us think is precisely what we are doing. The one thing we cannot do is underestimate the virus and then take that decision back. Constraints may easily be lifted when it's safe to do so; widespread infections cannot be revoked.

We must have learned by now that the key is to act quickly and not wait until the virus is widespread. That decision making process requires people generally to understand that not every measure will turn out to be necessary. It's an inability to grasp that point and the belief in those who cannot grasp it that they are smarter than the rest of us that makes things so difficult. Although, one could argue that modern-day political thinking requires that inability of thought. I.e. we must pretend that everything is predictable and that we should never have to take a precaution that later turns out to have been unnecessary.

 

[Sagittarius A-Star]

So, if they are working on "better boosters" would it be wise for someone already vaccinated to wait for these to be distributed? Or smarter to get the available booster now?

I cannot give medical advice. You may ask your doctor. The currently dominating variant is Delta, and the current boosters work very good against Delta. Also, I don't know, when/if new vaccine versions will be approved and available in high quantity. Maybe mid of next year?

See also:

Pfizer and BioNTech said they expect more data from lab tests in two weeks at the latest.
“These data will provide more information about whether B.1.1.529 could be an escape variant that may require an adjustment of our vaccine if the variant spreads globally,” the companies said.

Source:
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/26/pfi...id-variant-jj-testing-vaccine-against-it.html

 

[valenumr]

Mi

I suspect that's what the rest of us think is precisely what we are doing. The one thing we cannot do is underestimate the virus and then take that decision back. Constraints may easily be lifted when it's safe to do so; widespread infections cannot be revoked.

We must have learned by now that the key is to act quickly and not wait until the virus is widespread. That decision making process requires people generally to understand that not every measure will turn out to be necessary. It's an inability to grasp that point and the belief in those who cannot grasp it that they are smarter than the rest of us that makes things so difficult. Although, one could argue that modern-day political thinking requires that inability of thought. I.e. we must pretend that everything is predictable and that we should never have to take a precaution that later turns out to have been unnecessary.

From my perspective, it's the timing of this thing that is most problematic. I live in Hawaii, and things have been more locked down than anywhere else in the US, which has kept cases fairly low at significant cost.

Anyhow, it was recently decided that all remaining restrictions on gatherings ands organized events (like sports) will be dropped December 1st. Everyone here is psychology and emotionally done with covid. It is going to be almost impossible to have any kind of organized reaction or shutdown due to this variant. I think folks will really lose it.

 

[valenumr]

Prof Peter Hotez MD PhD, who has been on the front lines fighting Covid-19 infections in Houston, has credibility. Hotez is Professor: Departments of Pediatrics and Molecular Virology & Microbiology Baylor College of Medicine Houston, Texas, and Dean of the National School of Tropical Medicine and Professor of Pediatrics and Molecular Virology & Microbiology at Baylor College of Medicine where he is also the Co-director of the Texas Children’s Center for Vaccine Development (CVD) and Texas Children’s Hospital Endowed Chair of Tropical Pediatrics.

I think it is premature to make definitive statements about the Omicron variant. According to the NY Times, "The variant was identified on Thursday by scientists in South Africa. So far the variant has been detected in South Africa and Botswana, as well as in a few travelers to Belgium, Britain, Germany, Israel, Italy and Hong Kong."

It may be somewhat more transmissible than Delta, or maybe the same. Symptomatically, it may or may not be worse than Delta, which is pretty bad (there were similar concerns about Gamma, Lambda and Mu, and they fizzled outside there original region). Vaccination should help, but to what extent? The companies provided vaccinations are working to adjust their vaccines for Omicron. Wearing masks in public, or in enclosed spaces frequented by the public, should still be effective.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/health/coronavirus-variant-tracker.html

Mutation	Lineage	Status
Mutations that may help the Coronavirus spread
D614G	B.1	Appeared in early 2020 and spread around the world.
N501Y	Several	A defining mutation in several lineages, including B.1.1.7 (Alpha), B.1.351 (Beta) and P.1 (Gamma). Helps the virus bind more tightly to human cells.
E484K or “Eek”	Several	Appears in several lineages. May help the virus avoid some kinds of antibodies.
K417	Several	Appears in several lineages, including B.1.351 (Beta) and P.1 (Gamma). May help the virus bind more tightly to cells.
L452R	Several	Appears in several lineages, including B.1.617.2 (Delta).

International travelers should be vaccinated, and preferably tested before and after traveling, assuming international travel is not banned.https://www.gisaid.org/hcov19-variants/

Country Submission Count​

Country	Total #GR/484A (B.1.1.529)	#GR/484A (B.1.1.529) in past 4 weeks	%GR/484A (B.1.1.529) in past 4 weeks
South Africa	99	99	69.7
Botswana	19	19	18.6
Australia	2	2	0.1
Hong Kong	2	2	8.3
Italy	1	1	0.0
Israel	1	1	0.1
Belgium	1	1	0.0

I was apologizing for using Twitter as a source. That would normally make me feel a little dirty. But web searching right now results in a bazillion news articles, so I had to fall back to a few folks I find to be reliable with real Covid science.

 

[PeroK]

Mi

From my perspective, it's the timing of this thing that is most problematic. I live in Hawaii, and things have been more locked down than anywhere else in the US, which has kept cases fairly low at significant cost.

Anyhow, it was recently decided that all remaining restrictions on gatherings ands organized events (like sports) will be dropped December 1st. Everyone here is psychology and emotionally done with covid. It is going to be almost impossible to have any kind of organized reaction or shutdown due to this variant. I think folks will really lose it.

I understand all that. But, perhaps, COVID isn't done with us yet!

 

[valenumr]

I understand all that. But, perhaps, COVID isn't done with us yet!

I know. People here are still good about masking up indoors and we have a vax pass concept. But I think the general sentiment is such that there can only be a reaction to omicron, as opposed to a pre-action. In other words, once again, nothing will happen until it's too late.

 

[PeroK]

I know. People here are still good about masking up indoors and we have a vax pass concept. But I think the general sentiment is such that there can only be a reaction to omicron, as opposed to a pre-action. In other words, once again, nothing will happen until it's too late.

One of my favourite quotations is from Kafka's The Trial. It perhaps sums up where we are with COVID. It's better in German, but here's a rough translation:

The script is unalterable, and the opinions about it are often nothing more than an expression of despair.

In fact, there are so many quotations from that book that resonate with the world today. For example:

The lie will become the new world order.

One doesn't have to accept everything as true, only to accept that it is necessary.

 

[ergospherical]

Nobody I've actually spoken to in-person particularly knows nor cares about this new variant. The UK, at least, is almost entirely vaccinated. It seems absurd to entertain the prospect a fresh lockdown, given that market-behaviour was only just returning to pre-pandemic normalcy and healthy growth targets were beginning to be forecast. Unfortunately the market reacts to speculation over policy, rather than the virus itself...

 

[Sagittarius A-Star]

In other words, once again, nothing will happen until it's too late.

I Germany nothing happened and it is already too late. Yesterday, 50 ICU patients from East- and South-Germany where brought with special army planes and helicopters to North-Germany, because of full ICUs.

Source:
https://www.zeit.de/gesundheit/2021-11/luftwaffe-muenchen-hamburg-covid-19-patienten

The infection incidence is rising exponentially.

Source:
https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/coronavirus-karte-deutschland-101.html

 

[PeroK]

Nobody I've actually spoken to in-person particularly knows nor cares about this new variant.

People working in the NHS might care about it.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/nov/07/long-waits-at-ae-becoming-normal-warn-doctors-groups

 

[valenumr]

I Germany nothing happened and it is already too late. Yesterday, 50 ICU patients from East- and South-Germany where brought with special army planes and helicopters to North-Germany, because of full ICUs.

Source:
https://www.zeit.de/gesundheit/2021-11/luftwaffe-muenchen-hamburg-covid-19-patienten

The infection incidence is rising exponentially.

Source:
https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/coronavirus-karte-deutschland-101.html

Yikes. We had that happen with Delta. It was going around everywhere, and we just kept opening up. Then we had a massive spike in cases. Granted the guidelines were based on vaccination rates, but those were based on science of Covid classic.

 

[LCSphysicist]

A lot of people here, and probably in all countries, were against the use of mask, or against the lockdown. Fortunatelly, it was the minory. I am afraid that if this new variant in fact start to spread just like covid, more people will got more impatient and will not follow the rules.

 

[cmb]

We must have learned by now that the key is to act quickly and not wait until the virus is widespread.

This is predicated on the axiom that there are steps that can be taken to avoid it becoming widespread.

Evidence suggests there is no chance of this.

There have been several countries that have tried total lockdown, one in particular at the far end of every travel route, being New Zealand, that had the most optimum of a good long prewarning. What is happening there now? Despite their heroic efforts to stop it becoming widespread there, and despite the enormous sacrifice of its people to their freedoms, I fear that battle is now lost.

The original prospectus for lockdowns was to avoid the peak of cases, so that hospitals had a chance to deal with the waves. Although there were some rushes on hospitals, nothing like what was planned for. UK 'Nightingale' hospitals went completely unused. Then the lockdown morphed into giving us enough time for vaccinations, which are now widespread. Now we have a lockdown to do, what? To stop it becoming a widespread endemic?

That battle is lost on whether it (and its variants) will become widespread. The question is whether its variants will run out of virility to do much harm, more than any other endemic disease, as they mutate.

What are we actually doing and why? We might well reduce the rate of cases and mortality, flattening the peaks, but are the magnitude of cases and mortality actually going to be affected in the long run?

New Zealand is a good test case. Its cases are now on the rise. Will it end up low on the deaths-per-million, and gain credit for all that hard work, or just merge into the spectrum of outcomes across the world by the end of next year?

I am lost in the current thinking, I don't understand any of the objectives any more. Saying 'it's to save lives' sounds like a political statement not a scientific one, because you just have to scan the list of countries according to rates of death/M and on the face of it it looks random and uncorrelated to how well or badly or quickly lockdowns were implemented. Some counties that were held up as ideal examples are now bad on the list of deaths/M. Others that looked like a sham are orders of magnitude better.

For example, people laughed at Madagascar when the Gov released a local tea, saying this would stop Covid. They did have a lockdown .. for a couple of weeks, in a couple of larger towns. Well, at 34 deaths per million population, while USA is at 2,400 per million, who is laughing about that now?

Then there was India that initially looked fine and everyone said how well they had done, then it surged and folks said how badly they'd dealt with the second wave, now at 330/M deaths, they're looking pretty good by comparison with USA and, say, UK at 2,100/M.

Iran was slated badly by the international community for not locking down for a long time, and eventually they got all panicky about it. Currently they are at 1,500/M, so hardly doing 'badly' against say Germany that was also held up as an icon of lockdown implementation, now much the same at 1,200/M.

Peru locked down with military force and closed the borders very quickly, now at 6,000/M.

I'm not seeing strong correlations between the massive (or small) impositions on society and 'results'.

We can scientifically rationalise and intellectualise what we should or should not do, but how is it actually translating into real results, or not? Australia has come down very hard on its population and ended up with just 77/M deaths. Is that from vigorously applied lockdowns, or have then been sneaking in some Malagasy tea?

I'm sorry but I am just struggling to see correlations here. As humans we should take responsibility for ourselves, I have taken the vaccinations and I keep away from people, like we all should. But then I always have and being on the autistic spectrum my OCD habits which were once ridiculed have now become normalised.

I think it is unfair to accuse people of not taking the pandemic seriously and becoming 'spreaders' of it. If you worry about it that much, stay at home. If you worry a bit about it and have some perspective, take the vaccines and avoid potentially bad situations. If you couldn't care less about your health, then please sign a thing that says you'd prefer not to be treated in hospital, so I don't find you there if I need it.

It seems to me that the world has lost its perspective. How come the death rate varies by two orders of magnitude across the globe, with the countries practicing the most stringent lock downs appearing at both ends and also in the middle? Likewise the countries with the least stringent lockdowns also appear at both ends of that 2-OOM spectrum? I'm just not seeing a correlation between mortality outcomes and how countries have responded. Sorry. The death rate numbers objectively disclose this.

 

[ergospherical]

People working in the NHS might care about it.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/nov/07/long-waits-at-ae-becoming-normal-warn-doctors-groups

Definitely! But the sad reality is that it's been like this from the start, and was always expected to get worse during the Winter. But is it sustainable to lock down the entire country every time a new variant - of which this will be far from the last - arises?

I think Sir John Bell put it nicely, emphasising the protection provided by existing immunity.

You could still have a highly infectious virus that scoots around and causes lots of trouble, but causes lots of, you know, runny noses and headaches but doesn't put people into hospital. Honestly, you could live with that, I think. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...t-less-worrying-delta-says-prof-chris-whitty/

 

[valenumr]

What's really messed up is that this is the third novel Corona outbreak in a total of 17 years. It's starting to seem probable that we get a new one before this is even over.

 

[hutchphd]

What does this mean? That you live 2 years longer if you catch Covid?

No it certainly does not, and you should be able to figure that out.

I think it is unfair to accuse people of not taking the pandemic seriously and becoming 'spreaders' of it. If you worry about it that much, stay at home. If you worry a bit about it and have some perspective, take the vaccines and avoid potentially bad situations. If you couldn't care less about your health, then please sign a thing that says you'd prefer not to be treated in hospital, so I don't find you there if I need it.

But of course no one will eschew the ER when they cannot breathe. And no ER will turn them away. So if I have an infarction, I will die from their unvaccinated stupidity because the ER is full.
We do not have and will never have all the answers. People do not and will not behave as rational actors. To predicate our actions on these assumptions is foolish and to proselytize on this basis is reckless. So we do the best we can here in the real world.

 

[PeroK]

We do not have and will never have all the answers. People do not and will not behave as rational actors. To predicate our actions on these assumptions is foolish and to proselytize on this basis is reckless. So we do the best we can here in the real world.

COVID is the last straw for my belief that universal healthcare, free at the point of use, is sustainable. Nominally, that is what we have in the UK but in a practical sense we simply no longer have healthcare except for emergencies. I'm already dependent on my private health insurance to get a telephone appointment with a "family doctor" - GP as they are callled here. There is no prospect of my seeing an NHS GP face-to-face or even on the telephone.

I have arthritis and it would take forever to see a GP, then a specialist, then have a scan, then see the specialist again and finally get treatment. This would nominally be free on the NHS, but in practical terms this sort of non-emergency treatment is no longer readily available (*). No one wants to face the political realities of a healthcare system that can barely cope in any case and now has to content with unvaccinated COVID patients - all demanding their unlimited free healthcare.

It seems that we have too many scared cows now and sooner or later we have to choose one to be slaughtered.

(*) Last year I went through that cycle privately in 2-3 weeks.

 

[Phil Core]

With Omicron the real alarm is the number of mutations that have arisen in a relatively short period of time.

Here's the genetic sequence with mutations for Omicron - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SARS-CoV-2_Omicron_variant -

"The variant has a large number of mutations, of which some are concerning.[11] Thirty-two mutations affect the spike protein, the main antigenic target of antibodies generated by infections and of many vaccines widely administered. Many of those mutations had not been observed in other strains.[12][13] The variant is characterised by 30 amino acid changes, three small deletions and one small insertion in the spike protein compared with the original virus, of which 15 are located in the receptor binding domain (residues 319-541). It also carries a number of changes and deletions in other genomic regions. Of note, the variant has three mutations at the furin cleavage site.[14] The furin cleavage site increases SARS-CoV-2 infectivity.[15] The mutations by genomic region are the following:[16][10]

• Spike protein: A67V, Δ69-70, T95I, G142D, Δ143-145, Δ211, L212I, ins214EPE, G339D, S371L, S373P, S375F, K417N, N440K, G446S, S477N, T478K, E484A, Q493R, G496S, Q498R, N501Y, Y505H, T547K, D614G, H655Y, N679K, P681H, N764K, D796Y, N856K, Q954H, N969K, L981F
  • Half (15) of these 30 changes are located in the receptor binding domain-RBD (residues 319-541)
• ORF1ab
  • nsp3: K38R, V1069I, Δ1265, L1266I, A1892T
  • nsp4: T492I
  • nsp5: P132H
  • nsp6: Δ105-107, A189V
  • nsp12: P323L
  • nsp14: I42V
• Envelope protein: T9I
• Membrane protein: D3G, Q19E, A63T
• Nucleocapsid protein: P13L, Δ31-33, R203K, G204R"

vs the genetic sequence with mutations for Delta - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SARS-CoV-2_Delta_variant

What is it about the spike protein sequences (genetic structure) that generates increasing mutations rates?

 

[cmb]

At least everyone is learning the Greek alphabet, but not heard of the xi variant. Probably too much like '6' and skipped?

 

[DrGreg]

At least everyone is learning the Greek alphabet, but not heard of the xi variant. Probably too much like '6' and skipped?

“‘Nu’ is too easily confounded with ‘new,’” Tarik Jasarevic, a W.H.O. spokesman, said on Saturday. “And ‘Xi’ was not used because it is a common last name.” -- https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/27/world/africa/omicron-covid-greek-alphabet.html

 

[atyy]

Yikes. We had that happen with Delta. It was going around everywhere, and we just kept opening up. Then we had a massive spike in cases. Granted the guidelines were based on vaccination rates, but those were based on science of Covid classic.

Where?

 

[kyphysics]

So, if they are working on "better boosters" would it be wise for someone already vaccinated to wait for these to be distributed? Or smarter to get the available booster now?

My view of boosters is that if you're in a vulnerable category, then getting one now is warranted and worth it. Otherwise, it's maybe not the biggest problem in the world to not get one if you're healthy and relatively young.

Boosters mainly offer an additional layer of protection (upping your active neutralizing antibodies, which decay over time - often heavily depleted or even gone after a few months) vs. those who are fully vaccinated w/o the booster yet. Those antibodies will give you a small advantage in preventing infection, but probably not much of one in regards to severe health complications.

The "original full vaccinations" already give you long-term protection in the form of memory T and memory B cells, which help your body fight the infection if you get COVID. Whereas antibodies decay over time, memory T & B cells increase over time, from cell division. This will mean years of protection from severe illness, even if infection protection wanes over time w/o boosters.

eta: ...assuming Omicron doesn't break through memory T & B cell illness protection, of course.

The question I have is:
If a booster for omicron comes out (or some other new and improved one), how quickly can a person who has already had a booster get the latest/best one? E.g.,

If I got a Moderna booster today and tomorrow it was announced that an omicron booster is available, could I get it immediately?

 

[Sagittarius A-Star]

If I got a Moderna booster today and tomorrow it was announced that an omicron booster is available, could I get it immediately?

The Omicron booster will not be be available tomorrow.

The Berlin virologist Christian Drosten is worried about the new Omikron variant of the corona virus. “I'm pretty worried at the moment,” said Drosten on Sunday evening in the ZDF “heute journal”.

You don't know too much about the new variant. Reports of mild courses did not yet have a lot of substance in view of only a good 1000 cases. Here you have to wait for the clinical course.

You can see, however, that it occurs frequently among young people in South Africa and also affects people who have already had an illness. He is concerned that the first real "immune escape mutant" is in front of him.

It is also not yet possible to say how the variant behaves in this country, where many people have been vaccinated.

“Nobody can say at the moment what is in store for us. The only thing you can really say for sure is: it's better to be vaccinated. It's even better when you're boosted, ”said Drosten. The available vaccines would probably protect against a serious course of the disease.

Source
https://www.bz-berlin.de/berlin/dro...mutation-bin-schon-ziemlich-besorgt-im-moment

via Google translate:
https://translate.google.com/?hl=de...Krankheitsverlauf wohl schützen.&op=translate

 

[kyphysics]

Yes, it was a hypothetical question.

I did see Fauci, however, answer the "wait for a tweaked booster" question by saying not to wait. We cannot know for sure if/when a better/tweaked booster will come out, so he recommends not playing these games and just getting boosted now. Sounds like solid advice.

 

[valenumr]

Where?

Hawaii.

 

[valenumr]

Hawaii.

This happened: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/hawaii/

 

[artis]

Then there was India that initially looked fine and everyone said how well they had done, then it surged and folks said how badly they'd dealt with the second wave, now at 330/M deaths, they're looking pretty good by comparison with USA and, say, UK at 2,100/M.

Now I wouldn't be too confident in these statistics especially from countries like India, the simply reason being that many of the Covid deaths never appeared on the papers because many sick people never got to the hospital and simply were sick at home and then died. Given the overcrowding of their health care system I am highly suspicious that those "at home" deaths ever got reported and most likely they "flew" under the radar.

COVID is the last straw for my belief that universal healthcare, free at the point of use, is sustainable.

Well, has it ever really worked anywhere except for a few small countries with extremely good rates of GDP and healthy population?

After Covid I decided to see a cardiologist and make some checkups, the state given one would be 6 months in waiting so I just went from my own pocket, not to mention the attitude you get while paying yourself is quite different.
All in all the best way to fight any virus and take load off from healthcare system is to not make bad life choices that eventually lead to conditions like obesity etc.
One of the unspoken yet major factors in Covid deaths is obesity and probably the reason US is in the lead of deaths. Others conditions also included.
Take no offence but given this is a science forums I think we should practice what we preach and stop the fear posting and just wait for reliable data to come out and then judge.
Also life is a probability , a virus that affects mostly vulnerable people I think the most logical approach is to isolate that group instead of everybody because someone has to go and work and pay for all the expenses we have not to mention we shouldn't write off our future because of a single event that will most likely go away.
We have nothing to fear , but fear itself , once said one man...

 

[atyy]

What we do know is what the doctor that spotted this has said about it;-

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/omicron-symptoms-mild-doctor-angelique-coetzee-b968715.html

I mean, sure, take precautions but let's get it understood quickly to avoid unnecessary hardships.

In South Africa, 70-80% of the population has been previously infected, 24% vaccinated, and the average age is relatively young, all of which are expected to provide protection against Covid, so this may be why all of the cases Dr Angelique Coetzee (Chairperson, board of the South African Medical Association) had encountered at that point were mild.

Notably, https://news.yahoo.com/south-african-doctor-says-omicron-205354980.html added: "What we have to worry about now is that when older, unvaccinated people are infected with the new variant, and if they are not vaccinated, we are going to see many people with a severe [form of the] disease ..."

Dr Rudo Mathivha, (head of ICU at Chris Hani Baragwanath Hospital in South Africa) indicates that there are severe cases of Omicron among the young: "We have already seen a change in the demographic profile of Covid patients. We are seeing young 20s to just over their late 30s presenting at our hospital with with moderate to severe Covid disease, and some of them needing critical care intervention. Of note is 65% of those have not been vaccinated, and the rest have only been half-vaccinated (so took the first Pfizer jab, and were still thinking of going for the second Pfizer jab) ... How do we attract those young people that do not want to be vaccinated to realize that they would want to be vaccinated now? Because that is where our strength will lie when those young people come and be vaccinated ..."

 

[Sagittarius A-Star]

Also life is a probability , a virus that affects mostly vulnerable people I think the most logical approach is to isolate that group instead of everybody

Who does not belong to the vulnerable people?

Germany Covid-19 cases in ICU per age group:

Source:
https://www.mdr.de/wissen/corona-intensivstationen-altersstruktur-100.html

 

[cmb]

I'd like to see some clear data on all these variants showing the mortality rate from Covid of those without underlying conditions.

The data here in the UK initially showed this, and then it seemed to just stop being mentioned.

 

[pinball1970]

I'd like to see some clear data on all these variants showing the mortality rate from Covid of those without underlying conditions.

The data here in the UK initially showed this, and then it seemed to just stop being mentioned.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...icles/coronaviruscovid19latestinsights/deaths

You can get to the raw data of age groups and add up male deaths from 65-79 and they are about 75 death short of your average containing age range.

Pre-existing below