Dating for Nerds: A Shy Guy's Guide to Meeting Women

[GeorginaS]

You're being too reactive, 27Thousand. You seem to think the approach to Women is to react to what they do. Don't worry about that, worry about YOU. Do you enjoy her company? Do you like her? etc..., instead of Does she like me? Does she enjoy spending time with me?, etc..

The etc part is important. Cyclovenom has the right idea. Do you share common values? Are the same sorts of basic notions about life important to both of you? Do you feel comfortable with each other? Just relax and see how it feels to be around that person.

Don't stick pins through their wings and tack them down to styrofoam board and stare at them through a magnifying glass. If you're looking at someone and analysing their every move and breath they take, you're going to do nothing but make them feel uncomfortable. You're not really present at that moment; you're all wound up in your own head. The person you're with will sense that but have no clue what's up. Body language is there and real and all of that, yes. But you respond to it on a subconscious level. Truly. Trying to calculate the whole thing just makes the situation awkward and weird.

 

[Monique]

I once dated someone who was compulsive in overanalyzing everything. Besides finding it weird, it was also interesting because it was so out of the ordinary. Finally I told him that he should let go a little, that it is not normal to analyze everything obsessively. You know what he did? He went to a psychologist to have all the tests taken that they had to offer him, he came back to me with the test results. There was nothing wrong with him, he had all the tests with him to show me that..

 

[JasonRox]

I once dated someone who was compulsive in overanalyzing everything. Besides finding it weird, it was also interesting because it was so out of the ordinary. Finally I told him that he should let go a little, that it is not normal to analyze everything obsessively. You know what he did? He went to a psychologist to have all the tests taken that they had to offer him, he came back to me with the test results. There was nothing wrong with him, he had all the tests with him to show me that..

Did he have a graph of the sex life too?

With it's peaks and downs, analyzing the correlation of alcohol with sex, food with sex, and so on...

Jeez...

How long did that last?

 

[Redbelly98]

What about learning how to read if people are interested in you? That one girl on Yahoo Answers who told me to flirt with a girl and see how she responds back as a way to get an idea if a girl is interested?

That actually sounds like a good idea, get some real experience and practice flirting and see what happens.

 

[GeorginaS]

That actually sounds like a good idea, get some real experience and practice flirting and see what happens.

Sorry, but, "practice flirting"? That's distinguished from "actual flirting" how?

You think in your mind, "Okay, now I'm going to tilt my head to the left and look directly into her eyes while she's talking. And then I'll ask her if she's pleased that I'm being so attentive. If she says 'no' then I'll take out my note pad, mark that down, and explain to her that that wasn't a 'real' thing, just a 'practise' thing and so not to take it seriously as something I do for real. Unless she likes it."

 

[DanP]

Enjoy:P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPQSMdUF5b8&feature=PlayList&p=78CF843E75D3C1B2&index=30

 

[Redbelly98]

Sorry, but, "practice flirting"? That's distinguished from "actual flirting" how?

Who said anything about there being a distiniction?

 

[DanP]

OP, start to think of yourself as the God's gift to women. Delusion is sometimes highly useful.

 

[GeorginaS]

OP, start to think of yourself as the God's gift to women. Delusion is sometimes highly useful.

Delusion sometimes is, yes. The first part, though, no, absolutely not helpful at all.

 

[DanP]

Delusion sometimes is, yes. The first part, though, no, absolutely not helpful at all.

Are you sure ?

 

[GeorginaS]

Are you sure ?

If you're attempting to get involved with sane women, yes, I'm sure.

 

[DanP]

If you're attempting to get involved with sane women, yes, I'm sure.

No man or women is sane :P

 

[JasonRox]

If you're attempting to get involved with sane women, yes, I'm sure.

Yeah right, I find most girls are easy to fool.

 

[GeorginaS]

Yeah right, I find most girls are easy to fool.

Now see? I don't even necessarily insist that I'm entirely sane, however that particular attitude isn't the least bit attractive or appealing.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Delusion sometimes is, yes. The first part, though, no, absolutely not helpful at all.

There are guys who act like God's gift to women, without actually believing it deep down, who are incredibly obnoxious.

Guys who authentically believe it wear the delusion in complete comfort and security, and don't render themselves obnoxious asserting and defending it. They read as calm, confident, warm, charming, but a tad remote, and you'll often see a glint of amusement in their eyes, as if, inside, they just can't take you, or anything, really seriously. This drives girls nuts. They'll go to great lengths to penetrate that "God's Gift" look of amusement in the attempt to be taken seriously, mostly in the form of trying to please the guy.

Unfortunately, it's a doomed quest: most guys like this are sociopaths.

 

[DaveC426913]

No man or women is sane :P

"The majority is always sane."^{[1 para 8]}

 

[GeorginaS]

There are guys who act like God's gift to women, without actually believing it deep down, who are incredibly obnoxious.

Guys who authentically believe it wear the delusion in complete comfort and security, and don't render themselves obnoxious asserting and defending it. They read as calm, confident, warm, charming, but a tad remote, and you'll often see a glint of amusement in their eyes, as if, inside, they just can't take you, or anything, really seriously. This drives girls nuts. They'll go to great lengths to penetrate that "God's Gift" look of amusement in the attempt to be taken seriously, mostly in the form of trying to please the guy.

Unfortunately, it's a doomed quest: most guys like this are sociopaths.

That's brilliant, zoobyshoe. Both incisive and insightful.

 

[DaveC426913]

Guys who authentically believe it wear the delusion in complete comfort and security, and don't render themselves obnoxious asserting and defending it. They read as calm, confident, warm, charming, but a tad remote, and you'll often see a glint of amusement in their eyes, as if, inside, they just can't take you, or anything, really seriously. This drives girls nuts. They'll go to great lengths to penetrate that "God's Gift" look of amusement in the attempt to be taken seriously, mostly in the form of trying to please the guy.
Unfortunately, it's a doomed quest: most guys like this are sociopaths.

omg, you've just described my brother. Not toward women, he just excudes confidence and success in general.

But he's no sociopath.

 

[Surreal Ike]

The best thing is if you run into her away from your house, then you can come up to her and say "Hey." and then wait for her to look at you and then say "I think maybe you live across the street from me" and then maybe she will recognize you and maybe not, and you can tell her that you sometimes see her on the bus, and ask her questions about that ("how much does it cost?" "do people tend to have conversations or is it mostly quiet?") and talk about random places in your neighborhood (especially good if she's new, then you can tell her about whatever the most interesting places are).

If you can't run into her somewhere else, things will be more difficult. You could just go across the street and say you're new to the neighborhood and ask something about the neighborhood (e.g. where are interesting places to go friday night, or anything odd you might have seen), or say that you saw her waiting for the bus, and you couldn't let the opportunity pass by, and if she would like to eat lunch with you some time. The second one will be better if you're knocking on her door because people don't usually make casual conversation with their neighbors. Well I guess you could make a good casual conversation based on the fact that you're new to the neighborhood.

A third approach is to find an interesting place to go that's in the same direction she's going and wait for the same bus she does. Figure out something in advance to ask her when she waits with you. Start by saying "hi" or "good afternoon" or whatever, then wait for her response, and then have something planned out in advance like "Where are you off to" or "What's the story behind <insert item of clothing>" or "How long have you lived around here" and then when she answers, say you're new (living with relatives) and then ask her some kind of question about the neighborhood (do you like it? Do you tend to get any interesting neighborhood disruptions? Do kids play in the neighborhood? Where did you live before here? Before coming to live with my relatives, I lived in <insert place>. <Insert story about inserted place.> Going to college? What's your major?)

Basically you want to be strategic in setting up some sort of casual encounter that seems minimally unusual and you want to have things to talk about. If necessary make a list and then come up with an acronym that will help you with the list. E.g. PHYSICS for Parents, Household Repairs, Your Childhood, or whatever. Talking about things in the news is good too, or the weather, or a book you've been reading if you do it in a way that a normal person can understand.

Also confidence is useful. Since screwing up with this girl will be a little bit painful (you'll see her every so often and it will be an unpleasant reminder) you might want to level up and practice talking to strangers that you don't care about the opinions of so you will be less nervous when you talk to this girl. If you really want to level up you could take an acting class or a storytelling class or join Toastmasters or a public speaking class, but if you do these things, do them for your own sake (you want to improve your communication skills, and seeing this girl just reminded you that it would be worth boning up. It's not good to go through a lot of effort just for someone you haven't even met yet.)

Also you can ask your friends for more advice.

 

[zoobyshoe]

That's brilliant, zoobyshoe. Both incisive and insightful.

Thank you kindly!

 

[DanP]

Guys who authentically believe it wear the delusion in complete comfort and security, and don't render themselves obnoxious asserting and defending it. They read as calm, confident, warm, charming, but a tad remote, and you'll often see a glint of amusement in their eyes, as if, inside, they just can't take you, or anything, really seriously. This drives girls nuts. They'll go to great lengths to penetrate that "God's Gift" look of amusement in the attempt to be taken seriously, mostly in the form of trying to please the guy.

Unfortunately, it's a doomed quest: most guys like this are sociopaths.

Whats renders them sociopaths ? Their continuous success ?

 

[27Thousand]

That actually sounds like a good idea, get some real experience and practice flirting and see what happens.

Experience is good. Here's something that you may want to consider, if someone's learning a foreign language, experience is extremely necessary, however book knowledge/intellectualizing it will help one to know what to look for in the foreign language when trying to learn from experience. By looking at graphs, scatter plots, exponential or whatever type of equations my computer program may come up with (I'm teaching myself R a computer programming language for Statistics), etc, will help me understand how things work. Then I can know what to look for when having real life experience.


Something you may want to consider, I read in a book that if a woman smiles at you and you make eye contact and smile back, she will be much more likely to be friendly with you, compared to if you avoid eye contact with her. I tried that from a book and it worked! How do you explain why a book was able to teach me that, but just jumping into the deep end never did? Don't you think some may have trouble with social skills in the same way some have dyslexia/learning disorders? And my method I'm thinking of incorporates plenty of real life experience into the mix; it's just that it's not jumping into the deep end and nothing else.

 

[27Thousand]

I once dated someone who was compulsive in overanalyzing everything.

As far as being able to make equations for behavior, check this out from the U.S. National Institutes of Health!

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1472627/figure/jeab-85-02-02-f02/"

The link and graph have two equations to measure how the strength of behavior reinforcement is affected with time delay. Why not make some equations for reading if women are interested?

Below is extremely useful knowledge for Science and Technology, and I want to use it for flirting by using creativity to create equations from data sets:
Predictive Modeling http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predictive_modeling"
Predictive Analytics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predictive_analytics"
Newton had a goal of mathematical innovation. He took ideas which existed and combined them in new and useful ways. Maybe the same could be done for flirting equations?

To help me do it if I can convince peer-review authors to give me their data sets, here's open source software R Statistical Computing, a programming language for Statistics, so that you have much more control over Statistics and Graphics than something like SPSS could ever do. I'm trying to read as much as I can about it, with tons of practice http://www.r-project.org/"

 

[27Thousand]

So mmmm what are you say,
Mmm that mathematical equations for flirting only mean well,
Well of course they do,
Mmmm what are you say,
Mmmm that equations are all for the best,
Of course they are,

I know that some will say flirting equations aren't clever,
But equations and flirting were meant to be together,
So tell me PhysicsForums,

Mmmm what are you say,
Mmm that mathematical equations for flirting only mean well,
Well of course they do,
Mmmm what are you say,
Mmmm that it's all for the best,
Of course it is

 

[zoobyshoe]

Whats renders them sociopaths ? Their continuous success ?

No. "Sociopath" is not a pejorative term for a guy who is successful with women. The hallmark of a sociopath is that they have no conscience:

Sociopaths are people without a conscience. They don't have the normal empathy the rest of us take for granted. They don't feel affection. They don't care about others. But most of them are good observers, and they have learned how to mimic feelings of affection and empathy remarkably well. (Bold type by me, zooby.)

Most people with a conscience find it very difficult to even imagine what it would be like to be without one. Combine this with a sociopath's efforts to blend in, and the result is that most sociopaths go undetected.

Because they go undetected, they wreak havoc on their family, on people they work with, and on anyone who tries to be their friend. A sociopath deceives, takes what he (or she) wants, and hurts people without any remorse. Sociopaths don't feel guilty. They don't feel sorry for what they've done. They go through life taking what they want and giving nothing back. They manipulate and deceive and convincingly lie without the slightest second thought. They leave a path of confusion and upset in their wake.

http://www.youmeworks.com/sociopaths.html

In the eyes of girls the worst "crime" a man can commit is to be emotionally needy; to be insecure, to need the girls to validate him. A sociopath is the opposite of that: a man who is, deep down, completely unmoved by, and indifferent to, their opinion of him. At the same time he seems very attentive and charming on the surface, they can sense he is ultimately remote, just doesn't care.

At first they're delighted by this refreshing, non-needy man who is so lavish with attention, but then something starts to bother them: a deep itch to break through his inner indifference, to be taken seriously. This itch escalates to something obsessive: the need to get his validation. But the more they try to impress him, to please him, the more amused he looks, and the less seriously he seems to take them inside.

Once the sociopath senses the hook is set, he'll start casting himself as the hapless victim of circumstances beyond his control needing a bailout (money, goods, shelter, or whatever he happens to want) and he'll keep that up as long as he can get away with it, thoroughly reveling in the fact he's got someone under his thumb. No sympathy, empathy, or remorse involved.


There’s the kernel of a lesson for nerds in the story of the girl’s attraction to the sociopath, which could be stated many ways, but here’s one: girls are attracted to guys who are warm and attentive on the surface but who give off the unspoken vibe they feel utterly neutral toward the girl. Why? The guy’s not needy, doesn’t need to be validated. By the same logic the guy who believes he is God’s Gift to women is attractive for the same reason: not needy.

 

[rootX]

I am not sure how one can categorize and define sociopath with so many specific details..

 

[DanP]

I asked how you render them "sociopaths" as a group. So let me rephrase. From what you determined that the whole category have no conscience ?

No. "Sociopath" is not a pejorative term for a guy who is successful with women. The hallmark of a sociopath is that they have no conscience:



http://www.youmeworks.com/sociopaths.html

In the eyes of girls the worst "crime" a man can commit is to be emotionally needy; to be insecure, to need the girls to validate him. A sociopath is the opposite of that: a man who is, deep down, completely unmoved by, and indifferent to, their opinion of him. At the same time he seems very attentive and charming on the surface, they can sense he is ultimately remote, just doesn't care.

At first they're delighted by this refreshing, non-needy man who is so lavish with attention, but then something starts to bother them: a deep itch to break through his inner indifference, to be taken seriously. This itch escalates to something obsessive: the need to get his validation. But the more they try to impress him, to please him, the more amused he looks, and the less seriously he seems to take them inside.

Once the sociopath senses the hook is set, he'll start casting himself as the hapless victim of circumstances beyond his control needing a bailout (money, goods, shelter, or whatever he happens to want) and he'll keep that up as long as he can get away with it, thoroughly reveling in the fact he's got someone under his thumb. No sympathy, empathy, or remorse involved.


There’s the kernel of a lesson for nerds in the story of the girl’s attraction to the sociopath, which could be stated many ways, but here’s one: girls are attracted to guys who are warm and attentive on the surface but who give off the unspoken vibe they feel utterly neutral toward the girl. Why? The guy’s not needy, doesn’t need to be validated. By the same logic the guy who believes he is God’s Gift to women is attractive for the same reason: not needy.

 

[zoobyshoe]

I asked how you render them "sociopaths" as a group. So let me rephrase. From what you determined that the whole category have no conscience ?

Eh?

...

 

[Moonbear]

I'm not seeing how someone who believes they are god's gift to women is a sociopath either. An egomaniac? Sure. A narcissist? Likely. Sociopath? That seems to be stretching it, and even contradicts the notion that they really believe they are so great and fully confident in that role, since the sociopath only ACTS the role, doesn't actually feel or believe it.

Though, I WOULD be concerned that someone who thinks he can form relationships based on mathematical formulae rather than understanding normal social cues just might be a sociopath. Or, at the least, it seems very creepy.

I have a simple formula...the as the equations you try to apply to selecting a mate increases, your chances of obtaining any mate approaches zero.

 

[27Thousand]

Though, I WOULD be concerned that someone who thinks he can form relationships based on mathematical formulae rather than understanding normal social cues just might be a sociopath. Or, at the least, it seems very creepy.

I have a simple formula...the as the equations you try to apply to selecting a mate increases, your chances of obtaining any mate approaches zero.

Sociopaths don't lack social skills, they're actually quite good at reading people and that's how they thrive as predators. On the other extreme side of the continuum, I think I myself may have some troubles reading body language. I read in a book that if a woman smiles, if the man makes eye contact and smiles back she's a lot more likely to be friendly than if he avoids making eye contact with her. I read that in a book a few years ago and tried applying it. I discovered in the last few years that when a woman smiles, making eye contact back and smiling seems to have her act more friendly towards me! I wasn't able to ever get that from what others on this thread call "experience", but rather from scholarly research.

Moonbear, putting yourself in my shoes how would you feel if you were in my situation? I want to be myself, so being able to read women and know if they're interested will allow me to focus instead on those who are interested in me for being me, rather than having to worry about impressing them. Being oneself is important.

Also, I think my own body language may be slightly not normal, maybe some are born differently in body posture and not expressive in facial expressions, so finding equations for how I'm supposed to move my face, body posture, etc in social situations may help me relax because I'd want them to look past that and at my personality instead.

So what do you have to say about that? Aren't they worthwhile concerns?

 

[Moonbear]

Sociopaths don't lack social skills, they're actually quite good at reading people and that's how they thrive as predators. On the other extreme side of the continuum, I think I myself may have some troubles reading body language. I read in a book that if a woman smiles, if the man makes eye contact and smiles back she's a lot more likely to be friendly than if he avoids making eye contact with her. I read that in a book a few years ago and tried applying it. I discovered in the last few years that when a woman smiles, making eye contact back and smiling seems to have her act more friendly towards me! I wasn't able to ever get that from what others on this thread call "experience", but rather from scholarly research.

Moonbear, putting yourself in my shoes how would you feel if you were in my situation? I want to be myself, so being able to read women and know if they're interested will allow me to focus instead on those who are interested in me for being me, rather than having to worry about impressing them. Being oneself is important.

Also, I think my own body language may be slightly not normal, maybe some are born differently in body posture and not expressive in facial expressions, so finding equations for how I'm supposed to move my face, body posture, etc in social situations may help me relax because I'd want them to look past that and at my personality instead.

So what do you have to say about that? Aren't they worthwhile concerns?

Get professional help...seriously.

 

[27Thousand]

Get professional help...seriously.

Mean! I mean if I'm understanding everything correctly, aren't we all here to give each other advice and help, not throw insults?

 

[Pyrrhus]

Moonbear, putting yourself in my shoes how would you feel if you were in my situation? I want to be myself, so being able to read women and know if they're interested will allow me to focus instead on those who are interested in me for being me, rather than having to worry about impressing them. Being oneself is important.

Also, I think my own body language may be slightly not normal, maybe some are born differently in body posture and not expressive in facial expressions, so finding equations for how I'm supposed to move my face, body posture, etc in social situations may help me relax because I'd want them to look past that and at my personality instead.

So what do you have to say about that? Aren't they worthwhile concerns?

You should read your own posts. You are coming from the wrong place. You are being way reactive to women, and also very insecure (Why do you feel you have to impress?). Why do you need to know if a girl likes you or not, before you do anything?. Didn't you know that sometimes as you spent time with her, they start liking you?. It definitely varies.

Look, this is how I see it. Either you spent your time in your room running statistical models you coded in R of how to approach women, or you go out and actually meet women. You decide.

Good luck

 

[rootX]

27Thousand, stop thinking about girls

Go get a phd in statistics

 

[Monique]

Mean! I mean if I'm understanding everything correctly, aren't we all here to give each other advice and help, not throw insults?

That is not an insult, it is an advice. You clearly say that you have problems interpreting body language, I've seen courses that teach people how to deal with that. The way you are going to learn it is to practice it, with someone giving you feedback. Getting professional help is the best option.

Here is the first hit in my google search.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/relationships/singles_and_dating/techniques_getblcoaching.shtml