Did Fox News help to motivate the killing of three cops?

[OmCheeto]

A bit of comic relief from John Stewart. BARAKNOPHOBIA

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=223862&title=baracknophobia-obey

Thank you ed. Even though I have cable, I only turn on the TV about once a month to make sure it still works, so I know I'm not wasting my money.

That clip was worth the $60 I pay a month.

Btw, does anyone know how to unsubscribe from Fox? Or do I have to cancel my cable altogether, in order to not support them?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Btw, does anyone know how to unsubscribe from Fox? Or do I have to cancel my cable altogether, in order to not support them?

It depends on your cable package. I don't think Fox receives dividends from cable subscribers, but simply not watching counts. Ratings matter.

 

[WhoWee]

Compare that to a quality news program, like This Week, with George Stephanopoulos - what idiots like Beck and other right-wing zealots refer to as "the liberal media".
http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=7033169

Can anyone recall what job George used to have...other than being a Dem fund raiser for Dukakis and that other guy that lost...I think he might have worked for Clinton...was on TV a lot...something to do with news...can ANYONE remember?

I wonder if FOX was behind this story?
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1282/is_n2_v45/ai_13518566/

...or maybe this one
http://www.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,19940404,00.html

George is most certainly the MOST UNBIASED news man of ALL TIME...Beck could learn a lot about responsibility from George.

 

[LowlyPion]

George is most certainly the MOST UNBIASED news man of ALL TIME...Beck could learn a lot about responsibility from George.

Actually given his background Stephanopoulos is pretty fair handed in his treatments. While the previous administration was trying to hide the true costs in American lives of the Bush-Cheney adventure in Iraq, you have had Stephanopoulos stepping up to at least honor by name each week those that gave their lives - something that Bush-Cheney censored in not permitting the filming of bodies returning or of military funerals for those fallen.

I'm pretty sure you don't want to suggest that Beck in any way resembles a journalist, other than that he pretends to play one on TV.

 

[WhoWee]

Actually given his background Stephanopoulos is pretty fair handed in his treatments. While the previous administration was trying to hide the true costs in American lives of the Bush-Cheney adventure in Iraq, you have had Stephanopoulos stepping up to at least honor by name each week those that gave their lives - something that Bush-Cheney censored in not permitting the filming of bodies returning or of military funerals for those fallen.

I'm pretty sure you don't want to suggest that Beck in any way resembles a journalist, other than that he pretends to play one on TV.

Indeed, George's background is certainly not unbiased. He is a VERY talented spin-meister. I was really touched when he cried during Obama's inauguration.

I'm glad you brought up body counts...I haven't seen any daily body count reports since Obama took over...can anyone find a link?

I guess I'm not used to all of this transparency...I can't seem to find all of the info in clear site?

Beck is not a journalist...he is a political commentator...just like George.

 

[LowlyPion]

I'm glad you brought up body counts...I haven't seen any daily body count reports since Obama took over...can anyone find a link?

I guess I'm not used to all of this transparency...I can't seem to find all of the info in clear site?

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/casualty.pdf

The Department of Defense has other useful resources on casualties too:
http://www.defenselink.mil/releases/

I can't see that anything is being hidden ... now.

You may have missed this:

New media policy starts Monday at DAFB
By BETH MILLER • The News Journal • April 4, 2009
...Starting Monday, families of fallen U.S. military members may grant permission for news organizations to cover the return of their loved one’s remains to the mortuary at Dover Air Force Base.

http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20090404/NEWS/90404019

 

[WhoWee]

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/casualty.pdf

The Department of Defense has other useful resources on casualties too:
http://www.defenselink.mil/releases/

I can't see that anything is being hidden ... now.

You may have missed this:

http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20090404/NEWS/90404019

Just for the record...I personally know a number of people currently in harms way...I don't need to look at photos of coffins.

I looked through your links and still can't decipher the cumulative body count since Obama took office.

 

[LowlyPion]

Just for the record...I personally know a number of people currently in harms way...I don't need to look at photos of coffins.

I looked through your links and still can't decipher the cumulative body count since Obama took office.

Well, you're the one that chose to make it an excursion from the point that Fox is for the most part apparently presenting news commentary rather than news, ironically mislabeling it under the cloak of Fair and Balanced, and that somehow, inexplicably, George Stephanopolous, from an unrelated network, should be dirtied to the level of this clownish Glen Beck that spews his Roger Ailes inspired polemics.

As far as George S goes this of course is not the case. His treatment of a number of issues has to my mind been thorough and fair in laying out both sides of a question, unlike the overly theatrical Beck, who seemingly prizes smirks over insightful or apparently even thoughtful observation.

As to the current administration I completely miss your point that casualties are being hidden, as opposed to the prior administration that engaged in active censorship of most anything to do with casualties.

 

[Proton Soup]

Well, you're the one that chose to make it an excursion from the point that Fox is for the most part apparently presenting news commentary rather than news, ironically mislabeling it under the cloak of Fair and Balanced, and that somehow, inexplicably, George Stephanopolous, from an unrelated network, should be dirtied to the level of this clownish Glen Beck that spews his Roger Ailes inspired polemics.

As far as George S goes this of course is not the case. His treatment of a number of issues has to my mind been thorough and fair in laying out both sides of a question, unlike the overly theatrical Beck, who seemingly prizes smirks over insightful or apparently even thoughtful observation.

As to the current administration I completely miss your point that casualties are being hidden, as opposed to the prior administration that engaged in active censorship of most anything to do with casualties.

i've never paid Stephi much mind since he became a newsman, except noticing how bad he was in the very beginning.

if you want a Dem talking head to pick on, tho, i suggest Lanny Davis. he is quite possibly the most dishonest spin shyster I've ever witnessed. but he's all whitebread boring compared to Beck. i even saw something a couple days ago that left me wondering if Lanny has switched allegiances to corporates now.

 

[WhoWee]

Well, you're the one that chose to make it an excursion from the point that Fox is for the most part apparently presenting news commentary rather than news, ironically mislabeling it under the cloak of Fair and Balanced, and that somehow, inexplicably, George Stephanopolous, from an unrelated network, should be dirtied to the level of this clownish Glen Beck that spews his Roger Ailes inspired polemics.

As far as George S goes this of course is not the case. His treatment of a number of issues has to my mind been thorough and fair in laying out both sides of a question, unlike the overly theatrical Beck, who seemingly prizes smirks over insightful or apparently even thoughtful observation.

As to the current administration I completely miss your point that casualties are being hidden, as opposed to the prior administration that engaged in active censorship of most anything to do with casualties.

Actually, Ivan made the comparison regarding George...and I reminded everyone that he's not a "newsman" per se.

For the record, I LIKE and RESPECT George Stephanopolous...but he's no Walter Cronkite when it comes to fair reporting. He tries...but he's a pure Democrat.

As for the Obama administration "hiding" casualties (NEVER SAID THAT)...my point is I just can't figure out how many people have actually been injured or died serving under Obama. When he said "transparent"...I expected easy to understand information...not something that needs extrapolated to be understood.

Under Bush, we got (from the media) a daily count plus a cumulative total...that's not exactly censorship.

As for Beck, he doesn't pretend to be a journalist.

 

[WhoWee]

i've never paid Stephi much mind since he became a newsman, except noticing how bad he was in the very beginning.

if you want a Dem talking head to pick on, tho, i suggest Lanny Davis. he is quite possibly the most dishonest spin shyster I've ever witnessed. but he's all whitebread boring compared to Beck. i even saw something a couple days ago that left me wondering if Lanny has switched allegiances to corporates now.

If I recall, Lanny is an attorney. He's clearly pro-Dem, but I wouldn't call him dishonest. His mild demeanor and soft approach is warming and often helps him make his point...he's non-threatening and a welcome change to all of the loudness on some of the shows.

I caught an episode recently where he made some pro-business comments as well. I don't remember the context, but think his concern was the possibility of government infringing upon private enterprise and contract law.

 

[Proton Soup]

If I recall, Lanny is an attorney. He's clearly pro-Dem, but I wouldn't call him dishonest. His mild demeanor and soft approach is warming and often helps him make his point...he's non-threatening and a welcome change to all of the loudness on some of the shows.

I caught an episode recently where he made some pro-business comments as well. I don't remember the context, but think his concern was the possibility of government infringing upon private enterprise and contract law.

i think he represents whatever cause will give him the most billable hours.

 

[russ_watters]

I can't see that anything is being hidden ... now.

One of the things that Obama criticized Bush for (correctly) was his off-the-books accounting of the war funding. But Obama's very first war funding request is exactly that:

President Obama asked Congress on Thursday for $83.4 billion for U.S. military and diplomatic operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, pressing for special troop funding that he opposed two years ago when he was senator and George W. Bush was president.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-04-09-war-funding_N.htm

 

[LowlyPion]

You'd think that the Homeland Security report on Right wing hate groups posing a greater than external terrorist activities would sober up Fox a bit in their orgy of frothy rhetoric that they seem to sling pretty much throughout the day and evening under their "Fair and Balanced" flag.

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/14/dhs-report-right-wing/

Now tomorrow comes the Fox promoted Tea Bagging Rallies. I'm guessing these rallies will be in dark auditoriums like the McCain Palin rallies so you can't see how empty the place is, how small the crowds.

So much for top down organized pseudo grass roots events.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

DHS warns of 'right-wing extremists'

...A new Department of Homeland Security report is warning law enforcement officials of a growing threat of “right-wing extremist groups.”

“The consequences of a prolonged economic downturn — including real estate foreclosures, unemployment, and an inability to obtain credit — could create a fertile recruiting environment for right-wing extremists and even result in confrontations between such groups and government authorities,” the report warns.

The report explains that threats so far have been “largely rhetorical,” but points to the April 4 shooting of three police officers in Pittsburgh as a “recent example of potential violence associated with right-wing extremism...

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0409/21243.html

While Fox is stoking the fires with blatent lies that help to foster right-wing delusions, the DHS warns of a building threat.

Fox is yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theater.

 

[WhoWee]

You'd think that the Homeland Security report on Right wing hate groups posing a greater than external terrorist activities would sober up Fox a bit in their orgy of frothy rhetoric that they seem to sling pretty much throughout the day and evening under their "Fair and Balanced" flag.

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/14/dhs-report-right-wing/

Now tomorrow comes the Fox promoted Tea Bagging Rallies. I'm guessing these rallies will be in dark auditoriums like the McCain Palin rallies so you can't see how empty the place is, how small the crowds.

So much for top down organized pseudo grass roots events.

As you predicted? NO!

There were hundreds of events with strong turnout. The TEA parties are what you make them. For the most part, the protests are about runaway spending of money we don't have...Democrat AND Republican.

Today, Obama said he was unaware of the whole thing...LOL!

 

[WhoWee]

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0409/21243.html

While Fox is stoking the fires with blatent lies that help to foster right-wing delusions, the DHS warns of a building threat.

Fox is yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theater.

Where is the report on Left Wing radicals...(former Weather Underground types) that MAY BE trying to influence students or (gasp) government officials?

 

[LowlyPion]

As you predicted? NO!

There were hundreds of events with strong turnout. The TEA parties are what you make them. For the most part, the protests are about runaway spending of money we don't have...Democrat AND Republican.

Today, Obama said he was unaware of the whole thing...LOL!

Turnout was pathetic at those tea bag events despite the nearly continuous promotion of them on Fox these past couple of weeks. The comical thing was Fox's claims that they were just there covering them because they were big news events, and then you had Fox's own on air reporters on the scene talking about the fascist government of the Obama administration, you had Fox's on air personalities not reporting the news, but headleading the demonstrations from the stages - Niel Cavuto in Sacremento caught lying on air about the size of the crowd, Glen Beck displaying his pitiful grasp of history in San Antonio, Sean Hannity regurgitating his rhetoric in Atlanta.

As to the size of the crowds ... some of these hundreds of spontaneous outpourings consisted of just a few individuals that were undoubtedly left wondering why they were there. But to put things in scale not even the total claimed nationwide is as large as any of a number of Obama campaign events, like the sea of people in St. Louis, or Kansas City or in Chicago on election evening, or at the inauguration. I saw no enthusiasm at any of the rallies that was, as Neil Cavuto was happily chirping, "palpable".

As to Fox News - it was neither fair nor balanced reporting. It was partisan anti-Obama advocacy - an event heavily promoted by them apparently as some desperate hope to make it seem like there really is some giant grassroots out there. As to the point of this thread, yesterday only served to demonstrate what a charade Fox News is as regards to being a fair and balanced news source, and the extent to which they are seeking to make the news, and not just report it, by fomenting with their rhetoric the kind of hostility that may have in fact led to an environment that nurtures the kind of thinking involved in the pre-meditated deaths of those officers in Pittsburgh.

 

[CRGreathouse]

I hadn't heard of the TEA parties until today (I've seen Fox News exactly once in my life, in a barber shop 5 years ago). But my local newspaper -- formerly left-wing, now centrist* -- did a big piece on them. I didn't realize they were promoted by anyone.

* I don't think they've ever endorsed a major Republican candidate for the presidency. But their articles lack the obvious bias they once had, and they've created a new position to respond to reader concerns on fairness.

 

[seycyrus]

Here we see once again, the blatant attempt to use this forum to promote a political agenda.

The cowardly refusal to obtain an unbiased comparative accounting of the material on FN versus other news sources is hilarious.

Talking about cherry picking your data, ehh comrades!

 

[seycyrus]

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0409/21243.html

... the DHS warns of a building threat.

Which Napolitano has already had to apologize for...

 

[WhoWee]

Turnout was pathetic at those tea bag events despite the nearly continuous promotion of them on Fox these past couple of weeks. The comical thing was Fox's claims that they were just there covering them because they were big news events, and then you had Fox's own on air reporters on the scene talking about the fascist government of the Obama administration, you had Fox's on air personalities not reporting the news, but headleading the demonstrations from the stages - Niel Cavuto in Sacremento caught lying on air about the size of the crowd, Glen Beck displaying his pitiful grasp of history in San Antonio, Sean Hannity regurgitating his rhetoric in Atlanta.

As to the size of the crowds ... some of these hundreds of spontaneous outpourings consisted of just a few individuals that were undoubtedly left wondering why they were there. But to put things in scale not even the total claimed nationwide is as large as any of a number of Obama campaign events, like the sea of people in St. Louis, or Kansas City or in Chicago on election evening, or at the inauguration. I saw no enthusiasm at any of the rallies that was, as Neil Cavuto was happily chirping, "palpable".

As to Fox News - it was neither fair nor balanced reporting. It was partisan anti-Obama advocacy - an event heavily promoted by them apparently as some desperate hope to make it seem like there really is some giant grassroots out there. As to the point of this thread, yesterday only served to demonstrate what a charade Fox News is as regards to being a fair and balanced news source, and the extent to which they are seeking to make the news, and not just report it, by fomenting with their rhetoric the kind of hostility that may have in fact led to an environment that nurtures the kind of thinking involved in the pre-meditated deaths of those officers in Pittsburgh.

Here's some "fair and balanced" reporting from CNN

 

[drankin]

Here's some "fair and balanced" reporting from CNN

The reporter totally ignores why those people are there and tries to debate them on "taxes". As if that is all they are there about. Sure, FN isn't really "fair & balanced" as they advertise, but CNN shows that they aren't either.

 

[LowlyPion]

The reporter totally ignores why those people are there and tries to debate them on "taxes". As if that is all they are there about. Sure, FN isn't really "fair & balanced" as they advertise, but CNN shows that they aren't either.

Perhaps the reporter was confused then, along with the rest of the country, because the sponsors have been calling it a Tax Equality Association T E A Party? They were gathering symbolically on Taxes due day.

Perhaps it needs to be rebranded then into something intelligible that actually makes sense and affects those people's taxes that showed up at some of these events. (Calling it a Libertarian Rally would have gotten bupkus apparently.) Otherwise, it was apparently just a gathering of the disgruntled in difficult economic times, whipped to a froth from incessant promotion on Fox, desperately seeking some wedge issue that they can use to create an identity, any identity that can get traction for their socially conservative causes.

As it stands now though their brand of ideology was pretty thoroughly repudiated at the polls in November. The Nation sees where the highway the Conservatives want to build goes. It looks to be a bee line straight to the bridge to nowhere.

Thanks. But no thanks.

 

[LowlyPion]

As a measure of how Fox has crossed the line from reporting the news to becoming the news and driving events - a definite journalistic no-no - here is a survey of the extent of their promotion leading up to these tea bag events:

http://mediamatters.org/items/200904150033?f=h_latest

From April 6 to April 13, Fox News featured at least 20 segments on the "tea party" protests scheduled to take place on April 15 and aired at least 73 in-show and commercial promotions for their upcoming April 15 coverage of the events, a Media Matters for America study has found. As Media Matters has documented, Fox News has aggressively promoted the events in recent weeks, encouraging viewers to get involved with tea-party protests across the country. Indeed, Fox News has repeatedly described them as "FNC Tax Day Tea Parties." On April 15, four of the network's hosts will be broadcasting live from various tea parties.

To the extent that they are working to exploit divisiveness in a difficult economy, to amplify the polarities, then it certainly seems to me that they must also shoulder some of the burden for when 3 policemen are killed by any whack nuts that would misguidedly buy into their rhetoric.

 

[LowlyPion]

Tonight's The Daily Show, does a very excellent job of highlighting the issues for yesterday's Tea Parties.

When the episode is available , I'll get a link, but it is worth catching if available on cable.

 

[NBAJam100]

Tonight's The Daily Show, does a very excellent job of highlighting the issues for yesterday's Tea Parties.

When the episode is available , I'll get a link, but it is worth catching if available on cable.

Yeah, that's a reliable source... Its not like the daily show has any clear political bias...

 

[edward]

SCOTTSDALE — Arizona's two U.S. senators lashed out Wednesday at the Department of Homeland Security for what they said amounts to profiling people as terror risks based on their political beliefs.
Sen. Jon Kyl said he understands the need for the agency charged with helping to protect the country from terrorists to understand where the threats may be coming from. And he acknowledged that Homeland Security has done various similar reports.
But Kyl said a 10-page memo on right-wing extremists, prepared earlier this month, goes over the line. "It's rather odd to be so specifically oriented toward . . . a political point of view," he said. "If it's a real assessment of threats, I would think there are a whole lot of things you'd look at in addition to these kinds of political beliefs."
The memo warns of how economic problems, as well as the election of the first black president, have provided fertile recruiting conditions for some extremist organizations.

http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/fromcomments/288961.php

Republican senators Kyle and McCain had no problem when it was liberals being profiled by DHS.

Hmm I wonder who may be stirring up the radical right to the point that DHS has perceived them as a threat?

 

[edward]

Yeah, that's a reliable source... Its not like the daily show has any clear political bias...

No more so than Beck, and Orielly the fair and balanced guys.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

You'd think that the Homeland Security report on Right wing hate groups posing a greater than external terrorist activities would sober up Fox a bit in their orgy of frothy rhetoric that they seem to sling pretty much throughout the day and evening under their "Fair and Balanced" flag.

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/14/dhs-report-right-wing/

Now tomorrow comes the Fox promoted Tea Bagging Rallies. I'm guessing these rallies will be in dark auditoriums like the McCain Palin rallies so you can't see how empty the place is, how small the crowds.

So much for top down organized pseudo grass roots events.

I may be mistaken but I am fairly certain that most rightwing orgs are pro-local law enforcement. Can you show me any examples of rightwing groups targeting police officers? Otherwise this doesn't seem to have much to do with whether or not Fox is liable for someone who shot three cops.

Do you maybe have examples of Fox making people blow up abortion clinics or burn crosses on people lawns? Maybe even just a neo-nazi giving someone a skinhead smile?

 

[edward]

FOX news is driving the radical right. That is very obvious. Can they set off a loose cannon loner? IMHO I personally think that they can.

The man who shot the three policeman was afraid that his guns would be taken away. FOX and hate radio harps on that prospect daily.

http://wnd.com/images/dhs-rightwing-extremism.pdf

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

FOX news is driving the radical right. That is very obvious. Can they set off a loose cannon loner? IMHO I personally think that they can.

The man who shot the three policeman was afraid that his guns would be taken away. FOX and hate radio harps on that prospect daily.

http://wnd.com/images/dhs-rightwing-extremism.pdf

So you think that they created that fear in him? Do you think it would be unreasonable to assume that he already possessed such a fear and that perhaps he watched a news station that supported what he believes? And most importantly, do you see any real connection between a fear of the government banning guns and a decision to shoot at police officers who arrive at a house regarding a domestic dispute?

Personally I think that it would be safe to say that the guys nut was already cracked. So you may argue that Fox is irresponsible in that they could theoretically provoke people who are already nutbags to violent action. But the same could be said, and has been said, of all sorts of media as I have already pointed out. But at what point does this moral obligation become apparent and why? Do you agree with similar assessments made regarding other forms of media?

 

[Woody101]

If Fox News is responsible for 3 police officers being killed by a deranged individual then it naturally follows that Hollywood is responsible for all the street violence portray it in their movies that is acted out on the streets of this country every day. When rappers sing about killing cops, are they responsible too?

 

[LowlyPion]

Yeah, that's a reliable source... Its not like the daily show has any clear political bias...

Of course it has a political bias. They at least don't pretend to be fair and balanced.

Neither do they trumpet the polemics of the conservative Libertarians.

I thought the piece interviewing people in the crowd was quite funny.

Just as I thought the comments of the Fox Business reporter with the long hair calling the Obama administration a Fascist regime an interesting example of the kind of amped up rhetoric that Fox has been spewing.

Btw they are currently highlighting last nights show on the main page:
http://www.comedycentral.com/

 

[LowlyPion]

So you think that they created that fear in him? Do you think it would be unreasonable to assume that he already possessed such a fear and that perhaps he watched a news station that supported what he believes? And most importantly, do you see any real connection between a fear of the government banning guns and a decision to shoot at police officers who arrive at a house regarding a domestic dispute?

Personally I think that it would be safe to say that the guys nut was already cracked. So you may argue that Fox is irresponsible in that they could theoretically provoke people who are already nutbags to violent action. But the same could be said, and has been said, of all sorts of media as I have already pointed out. But at what point does this moral obligation become apparent and why? Do you agree with similar assessments made regarding other forms of media?

There is a bit of a distinction to be made between what Fox is doing and what goes on or may be triggered casually by general entertainment. Sure there are the whack jobs like Hinckley who's fantasy world embraced Taxi and thoughts of Jodie Foster in bizarrely morphing that into acting against Reagan. But that must be seen as totally incidental.

On the other hand Fox is pursuing an agenda that by its nature is political dissent, and their representations in the extreme, without regard for the Truth or the balance, looks considerably more consequentially responsible insofar as they would stoke and foment these hate groups and borderline hate groups and individuals.

To lump Fox in with others that are pursuing profit through entertainment, when Fox's real agenda is to promote the Roger Ailes brand of neo-conservatism then isn't in my mind quite the same thing at all.

Now if you can point to the polemics of Michael Moore, and identify some nexus to acts of civil violence, then I would agree that both would be culpable in a similar way. But until recently, like with the advent of Fox News, there really has been no news network that has been so clearly devoted to representing issues in such a partisan and polarizing way.