Did Fox News help to motivate the killing of three cops?

[Oscar Wilde]

Absolutely. I hear more "hate speech" on this forum than any AM radio talk show. But the term is so ambigouos and subjective I refuse to use it in my normal vocabulary.

I used to get my jollies from watching MSNBC, but now I just get on PF and look for Ivan's threads.

 

[humanino]

Have you seen "Outfoxed" ? Media is one essential ingredient of democracies. It would be worthwhile to think seriously how some media can deeply challenge people's ability to sustain the rest of their freedom.

 

[jaap de vries]

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/09122008/watch.html

Thanks for posting. This pretty much seems to summarize it pretty well.

 

[jaap de vries]

You are welcome to IM me these "blatant terms" so I know what you are talking about.

You just said you watched the video. If you want us to type it down we will but why give us an errand.

I thought the comment about autistic children was pretty inflammatory but I guess you like that because at least Savage "says it how it is" ?!?

Now that admittedly it seems like Moyers has done the work for us I would like to challenge you to find similar remarks coming from the left. I try to remain neutral but I could honestly not think of any.

 

[drankin]

You just said you watched the video. If you want us to type it down we will but why give us an errand.

I thought the comment about autistic children was pretty inflammatory but I guess you like that because at least Savage "says it how it is" ?!?

Now that admittedly it seems like Moyers has done the work for us I would like to challenge you to find similar remarks coming from the left. I try to remain neutral but I could honestly not think of any.

IM me the terms so I know what you are talking about.

Yes, I like how Savage says what he thinks. Even when it's "inflammatory".

Why would I look for similar remarks from the left media? What is your point?

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Now that admittedly it seems like Moyers has done the work for us I would like to challenge you to find similar remarks coming from the left. I try to remain neutral but I could honestly not think of any.

I don't think I'll be able to find it but I recall reading an article by a left wing media personality that talked of the hope that anti gun control people wind up with their kids blowing their brains out and anti abortion people see their wives and daughters dying in back alley abortion clinics.

Specific to the claims of lies perpetrated by Fox News personalties for a political agenda as discussed in this thread; over the last eight years I have heard all sorts of claims from Bush going to war with Iran to rebublicans wanting to take away women's right to vote.

 

[humanino]

Bush going to war with Iran to rebublicans wanting to take away women's right to vote.

To a democrat, there is no need to demonstrate republican's error potential. To a republican, both proposals sound reasonable anyway
Sorry...
Would anyone happen to know of a decent source of news free on the internet produced by the U.S. ?

 

[rootX]

Would anyone happen to know of a decent source of news free on the internet produced by the U.S. ?

I like BBC. I don't like any of the U.S. sources - personally, I think U.S. doesn't have anything as good as BBC.

 

[Proton Soup]

try google's news search. look at a news item from a couple different sources and make up your own freakin' mind. half the crap is just reprinted from AP or UPI, anyway...

 

[humanino]

I am european. I speak english, french and german. I know France, England, Germany, Belgium, and also others, have each several website where I can daily find (reasonably) short and good quality reports of what significant happens in the world. Free of showbizz useless story, relatively honest, as un-bias as it comes. Where can I find that produced by the U.S. ? If it turns out there is no such thing, I claim the U.S. can not be called a democracy. So I hope there is !

 

[Proton Soup]

I am european. I speak english, french and german. I know France, England, Germany, Belgium, and also others, have each several website where I can daily find (reasonably) short and good quality reports of what significant happens in the world. Free of showbizz useless story, relatively honest, as un-bias as it comes. Where can I find that produced by the U.S. ? If it turns out there is no such thing, I claim the U.S. can not be called a democracy. So I hope there is !

that's a silly thought. everything has a bias. especially if it's some government-approved politically-"neutral" site.

for example... some people here might say NPR (National Public Radio) is as "fair and balanced" as it comes. but someone else would say NPR is full of granola-eating elitist hippy tripe. it's all point of view, you see, whose cows are getting holed and all that. but that's the great thing about a demo^H^H^H^H republic. we don't vote on what's reasonable to say here. we think it's much more reasonable that everyone has his say.

 

[LowlyPion]

I like BBC. I don't like any of the U.S. sources - personally, I think U.S. doesn't have anything as good as BBC.

I watch it a lot myself. I think you are right that their perspective is a lot freer of American hang-ups with political and religious ideologies and sexual references. Plus I appreciate their drier approach.

 

[humanino]

that's a silly thought.

No it's not. I repeat. If you don't have a (at least) 15 or 20 minutes daily report on what happening out there, you are inapt to vote, you are clueless about politics, and if everybody is in this state of ignorance, your nation is not a democracy.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Would anyone happen to know of a decent source of news free on the internet produced by the U.S. ?

http://www.ap.org/
I think AP is as close as you can get for a mainstream news organization. There are apparently bias in their reports. It is a collective of multiple agencies and reporters so the likelihood of bias leaking in from various affiliates can not be denied.

http://www.npr.org/
There's also NPR. On my local NPR affiliate they often syndicate BBC news casts. Apparently NPR produces their own news reports aswell. They have articles on their site.
HA! http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4712584
They even have an article treating the topic of their own alleged bias!

These are the only ones I know of personally. I'm sure there are several organizations in the US that are dedicated to unbiased news reporting. I personally don't have a preference for where I get my news, I just look at what ever articles I find through google. I listen to a conservative talk radio station and trust that the basic facts of their news is accurate. Then if anything I hear on the radio peaks my interest I look up articles online. I don't necessarily trust any single source. Even if they try to be unbiased they may well get something wrong or miss certain bits of information.

 

[mheslep]

No it's not. I repeat. If you don't have a (at least) 15 or 20 minutes daily report on what happening out there, you are inapt to vote, you are clueless about politics, and if everybody is in this state of ignorance, your nation is not a democracy.

Meanwhile, after listening the the news everyday, can you inform us as to why Sarkozy a) offers to take one and only one of the remaining Guantanamo prisoners, and b) why he refuses any additional support whatsoever for Afghanistan? (assuming you hail from France)

 

[mheslep]

... we don't vote on what's reasonable to say here. we think it's much more reasonable that everyone has his say.

Good point. US is the only Western nation I'm aware of that completely protects free speech rights.

 

[misgfool]

Good point. US is the only Western nation I'm aware of that completely protects free speech rights.

How are the other Western nations prohibiting them?

 

[WhoWee]

Guess what people on the edge do not need a push from hate radio or anywhere else.

Got a link on the guy staying up all night drinking? I have done that but it never made me take a shotgun into a church.

Live in Pittsburg eh? Big deal. Am I supposed to be impressed because you saw a violent war movie??

The Deer Hunter came out back about 78 or so. SO WHAT?? I saw it in a movie theater at the time and several times since. Guess what, no real people were killed they were all actors.

As long as we are off topic:

I preferred Full Metal Jacket just for the laughs.

Are you suggesting that intoxicated people make good choices when armed with high powered rifles? Here's your link:
"Police have said they believed Mr. Poplawski was drinking at a party into the early morning hours before the shooting. He also spent time on Stormfront, a white supremacist Web site in the hours before the shootings."

The shooter once tried to start his own internet talk program...according to a friend
http://www.1010wins.com/pages/4143111.php?

 

[Proton Soup]

No it's not. I repeat. If you don't have a (at least) 15 or 20 minutes daily report on what happening out there, you are inapt to vote, you are clueless about politics, and if everybody is in this state of ignorance, your nation is not a democracy.

way to take things out of context. i never suggested that you stay uninformed, only that unbiased sources do not exist. honestly though, my opinion is that if you need everything spoon-fed to you, then you are uninformed. or at least misinformed, which can be worse.

 

[mheslep]

How are the other Western nations prohibiting them?

Some examples:
http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/853

The Italian judiciary is investigating whether Roberto Calderoli, who resigned from his post as government minister last week, is guilty of “contempt of religion.” Mr Calderoli wore a T-shirt with a cartoon of the Muslim prophet Muhammad. If he is found guilty the former minister can be fined a penalty of €1,000 to €5,000.

Author Oriana Fallaci's (deceased) trial in Itally. Was also charged by a Swiss judge.
http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=hp&hl=en&js=n&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ecodibergamo.it%2Fstories%2FCronaca%2F25_fallaci%2F&sl=it&tl=en

It was finalized on December 18 to the writer and journalist Oriana Fallaci, charged with contempt of the religion of Islam for 18 phrases in his best seller "The force of reason."

Canada has its Human Rights Act, which makes it a crime to

communicate telephonically or to cause to be so communicated, repeatedly, in whole or in part by means of the facilities of a telecommunication undertaking within the legislative authority of Parliament, any matter that is likely to expose a person or persons to hatred or contempt by reason of the fact that that person or those persons are identifiable on the basis of a prohibited ground of discrimination.

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/ShowFullDoc/cs/H-6///en
The HRC has, e.g., a case against journalist Mark Steyn for his writings on Islamic fanatics. For what it is worth, Steyn reports the HRC goes online trolling the internet with inflammatory posts in order manufacturer cases.
http://fusionistlibertarian.blogspot.com/2008/01/mark-steyn-on-hrcs.html

 

[humanino]

Meanwhile, after listening the the news everyday, can you inform us as to why Sarkozy a) offers to take one and only one of the remaining Guantanamo prisoners, and b) why he refuses any additional support whatsoever for Afghanistan? (assuming you hail from France)

Is your argument "France is not a good democracy, therefore it's ok that the US is not a good democracy" ? That's a fantastic argument, congratulation, I don't feel like answering. I also notice that this kind of argument "the other candidate is more ugly than me" is usually used by people I don't feel like voting for. I have been shouting as loud as possible that Sarkozy has persistently challenged the fundamental principles of democracy over the years. Who wants to discuss this is welcome to open a thread, I can feed you with references I have gathered over the years. But I don't think many people care on this board.

 

[mheslep]

There's also NPR. ...
They even have an article treating the topic of their own alleged bias!...

Which is substantial IMO.

 

[mheslep]

Is your argument "France is not a good democracy, therefore it's ok that the US is not a good democracy" ? That's a fantastic argument, congratulation, I don't feel like answering.

Well that's good since that is not my argument, nor is your assumption even remotely connected to my post.

 

[humanino]

Some examples:
http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/853

What's the point !? I know better than you whenever European countries fail to respect freedom of speech and/or of journalism. What are you saying !? Is it "We're better than China on the human rights compartment, therefore we're good." ? Do you realize that this is unacceptable ? Why do I read your posts !?

In the context of this thread, in particular "Fox is poor journalism" I'd like to be pointed to a decent U.S. source of political information, on the national and international levels. Fortunately, TheStatutoryApe positively provided two possible answers. I would not classify "Associated Press" as just U.S. since it is international, but I think it is a good source. As for NPR, I do read and listen from it as well. Thank you TheStatutoryApe. If anybody is willing to add other sources of their own, I would appreciate as well.

 

[mheslep]

What's the point !?

In the first instance to reply to misgfool's query...

I know better than you whenever European countries fail to respect freedom of speech and/or of journalism. What are you saying !? Is it "We're better than China on the human rights compartment, therefore we're good." ?

Again, no.

Do you realize that this is unacceptable ?

Do you realize you are not the arbiter of what is / is not acceptable?

 

[humanino]

Again, no.

So maybe you would like to re-phrase your point so that my little brain can understand it ? Please ? What's the use of quoting other countries in this context ? Please note the causality in #155 and #157. misgfool answered your own message

US is the only Western nation I'm aware of that completely protects free speech rights.

How are the other Western nations prohibiting them?

both happening after

No it's not. I repeat. If you don't have a (at least) 15 or 20 minutes daily report on what happening out there, you are inapt to vote, you are clueless about politics, and if everybody is in this state of ignorance, your nation is not a democracy.

Meanwhile, after listening the the news everyday, can you inform us as to why Sarkozy a) offers to take one and only one of the remaining Guantanamo prisoners, and b) why he refuses any additional support whatsoever for Afghanistan? (assuming you hail from France)

I certainly do not "hail for France". I have no reason to do that. Incidently, when I hear "proud to be american" for me it sounds like "proud to be monday". You just happen to be american, you don't deserve it.

 

[misgfool]

You said

Good point. US is the only Western nation I'm aware of that completely protects free speech rights.

I think that there are more Western nations than Italy and Canada. I'm still waiting for the full list.

 

[edward]

Lets get back to FOX news and their tactics.

Below is a typical Fox fair and balanced smear in guise of an interview with ACORN.



All of the hoopla about voter fraud had me wondering about ACORN until I saw this interview. There was no voter fraud only accusations. A few workers did not register people properly, but none of those people ever voted.

I took an older vet to the VA hospital a few weeks ago. As he was checking out and making his next appointment I noticed something interesting on the counter. It was an announcement that vets could get free help preparing their income taxes from ....ACORN.

 

[WhoWee]

Lets get back to FOX news and their tactics.

Below is a typical Fox fair and balanced smear in guise of an interview with ACORN.



All of the hoopla about voter fraud had me wondering about ACORN until I saw this interview. There was no voter fraud only accusations. A few workers did not register people properly, but none of those people ever voted.

I took an older vet to the VA hospital a few weeks ago. As he was checking out and making his next appointment I noticed something interesting on the counter. It was an announcement that vets could get free help preparing their income taxes from ....ACORN.

I guess THIS "right wing nutcase organization" (?) tried to smear ACORN?
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/wireStory?id=6049549

I couldn't agree more...let's get back to the topic...Fox News and the Pittsburgh shooter...(this is a re-post in response to yopur previous post Edward)
Are you suggesting that intoxicated people make good choices when armed with high powered rifles? Here's your link:
"Police have said they believed Mr. Poplawski was drinking at a party into the early morning hours before the shooting. He also spent time on Stormfront, a white supremacist Web site in the hours before the shootings."

The shooter once tried to start his own internet talk program...according to a friend
http://www.1010wins.com/pages/4143111.php?

The idea that Fox News is somehow responsible is over-reaching.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

By falsely representing themselves as a news agency and then reporting false and inflammatory information that supports the allegations of radical organizations, Fox "News" could easily lend credence to the claims of those organizations.

In fact, the degree to which Fox is willing to misrepresent the facts suggests that they are knowingly and willfully creating an environment of malice that could easily foster violence.

 

[Proton Soup]

it's no different that other "news agencies" saying GWB stole the election in florida. get a freaking grip you goofballs. the same crap goes on on MSNBC, only someone else's ox is getting gored. good grief at all the stupid crap that gets spewed on this forum.

 

[LowlyPion]

Are you suggesting that intoxicated people make good choices when armed with high powered rifles? Here's your link:
"Police have said they believed Mr. Poplawski was drinking at a party into the early morning hours before the shooting. He also spent time on Stormfront, a white supremacist Web site in the hours before the shootings."

Are you saying they don't make good decisions? Or is it that the decision was already made which occasioned his drinking for what he was determined to do?

For instance when the Minutemen were alerted about the British coming, and mobilized in Lexington Town, they stayed up the rest of the night drinking ale at the taverns waiting for the vastly superior force of arms that was surely coming their way. Was it the ale that was the cause of that decision to stand and defend regardless?

Without knowing the timeline of when Mr. Cold Lifeless Hand Around his Gun made his decision, just as surely as the Minutemen themselves had pondered and decided long before drinking ale to stand against the British at the birth of the Nation, saying he was drinking then says nothing about the nexus of his decision to act and Fox's broadcasts merely because he was determined to been drinking alcohol before firing the first shot.

 

[edward]

it's no different that other "news agencies" saying GWB stole the election in florida. get a freaking grip you goofballs. the same crap goes on on MSNBC, only someone else's ox is getting gored. good grief at all the stupid crap that gets spewed on this forum.

We have a grip and a good one, better check you own.

Show me an example of MSNBC pulling off an interview ambush like this:



There are plenty more examples on youtube. Just search Fox News Bias

 

[LowlyPion]

We have a grip and a good one, better check you own.

Show me an example of MSNBC pulling off an interview ambush like this:



There are plenty more examples on youtube. Just search Fox News Bias

Good link. Thanks.

So no News Emmy for Megan this year I'm thinking. I hope she doesn't think that what she does is in any way journalism. To any real news organization she would likely be a complete embarrassment.

But to Roger Ailes, that's the kind of thoughtless red meat I think he likes to serve to his viewing demographic. That piece alone shows a total disregard for the facts of what happened with the voter registration drive last year, and a complete disregard for the apparent de minimis participation of Acorn in the coming Census of 2010. I'd say that represents not news, but rather propaganda.

(Of course Fox's real problem with voter registration I'd say wasn't Acorn at all. It was all the non-Fox demographic voters that did get registered, and were mad as hell, and helped to sweep the conservative ideologues from office.)

 

[humanino]

Horrible and hilarious ?
How obvious is it to you that an ethical journalist should never use "some people say"
NYA9ufivbDw[/youtube] On this chann...apon. Control information and you have power.