Did Moses Predict the Big Bang Theory?

[oscar]

Nereid, in all your posting you're not denying anything. You are just asking me more information, more details, you even criticized quickly you found a dead site, then you find it after and not giving it a thought, immediately asked for further explanation of the site, you asked what does the site means when admits "accurate tables showing eclipses for Mars & Venus", something that I already wrote. But to tell you the truth, I'm rather tired to give you more and more details. If you don't know about Mayas that's your problem. If you want to know why the site gives that information, do your homework, it's about time. BTW, Quiche languages of the Maya is not "dead" as you wrote and that makes evident the degree of education you have. I'm aware Chinese people need only 2000 ideograms to read the newspaper NOW, but I was referring to the context of a complex language in reference to time and I'm also aware of the rest of what you said. Regarding how the comprehension of the language is related to both hemispheres of the brain, if you want you can always search information as well. I'm not going to provide every single detail you ask just to satisfy your curiosity or ping pong discussion. When you mentioned the China issue,I honestly confessed I don't know enough of that thing, if I were a bit more arrogant I would behave like you, just answering whatever to "prove" my point. When I don't know something, I just don't talk about it.
You wrote "patience, memory, attention to detail to pass information" doesn't fit in precessional circumstances or astronomic names as given by Mayas and Sumerian people, there was no way to figure out those numbers but that is something I already explained with detail in the first pages. Hence you are asking me something I already explained before and I won't re-write again. Check back and this time don't "jump" information or read fast just to respond. You need to assimilate information. Since I'm not really having a special chat with you and you ask about Mayas and Sumerian astronomy completely ignoring something already known, to ask for more details will go foreever in your posts! I won't write a book here just to enlight you!
In spite of the fact I repeated you are using the same old fashioned argument about "formulas" and testable sort of thing, and didn't comprehend, well what can I do if you fail to understand what I wrote? You won't be satisfied ever, if you ask me about Pi or whatever, there won't be a satisfactory answer. You already have a NO SIGN recorded in your neurons not allowing to digest infomation. Your skepticism went beyond the frontiers and transformed into cynicism so unfortunately our conversation is over. If a Bible mentions specifically that order came out from chaos just as scientists are admiting now after thousands of years, that is certainly scientific as well as the testable fact the Earth hangs on the vacuum while other documents were saying it was upon an animal. What happens, is you want to read modern names, right? Even so, I have already told you the word for "expansion" and "darkness" was already explained in the Bible, so you're not denying anything that I wrote, you're just having a narrow minded attitude, "no, no, it's not enough, I want to see the formula of the Big Bang and this sort of thing". Every reader that eventually reads your post or my post shall judge what is good sense or nonsense "no,no,no". I won't discuss with you forever. Neither I mind what people may think about me.
If you want to say something about Mars as shown by Hoagland and posted by me is wrong, please specify WHAT IS WRONG AND WHY rather than making the usual general statements since I won't answer more Maya or Sumerian stuff for your eyes only.
Zelmers Zoetrop: Däniken didn't write about RNA messanger as far as I know. Yet RNA transcription not only takes place at the speed of light NOW, it has always done!

 

[Nereid]

Well, I guess how you choose to continue depends on what your objectives are.

If you wish to become rich and famous by initiating a revolution in 21st century physics and astronomy, then answering some of my questions may be of some assistance to your quest.

If you wish to write a book, then you don't need me to say anything.

But maybe you have other objectives entirely?

 

[oscar]

OOOPS! Comunication breakdown, Uhura says it's jammed!
www.astroconsulting.com/FAQs/mesoamerican_astrology.htm[/URL]
This one takes a while to download :
http://employees.oneonta.edu/walkerr/Mesoamerica/Mayan%20Writing.ppt
[url]http://btc.montana.edu/ceres/MESSENGER/ancastro.htm[/url]
[url]www.siloam.net/sunrise/sunrise.htm[/url]
[url]www.es.flinders.edu.au/~mattom/science+society/lectures/lecture18.html[/url]
[url]www.cristobalcolondeibiza.com/2eng/2eng15.htm[/url]
The ones who can actually READ shall see Maya calendar was one of the most accurate calendar ever designed.

Other subject:
[PLAIN]www.iitp.ru/personal/Efim_Liberman/int_e.html[/URL]
[PLAIN]www.biologie.uni-regensburg.de/Mikrobio/Thomm/E/elongation.htm[/URL]
[PLAIN]www.ssril.slac.stanford.edu/newsletters/headlines/headlines_2-04.html[/URL]
[PLAIN]www.unifiedftheory.com/Exc4.htm[/URL]

 

[oscar]

Sorry, my ego is not in stratosphere like you believing I have to answer YOUR questions to create a revolution! Far from my intention. First the many contradictory theories would have to shock me to the point in fact ther are revolutionary! If they repeat somethng already known 1800 years ago or even before, that doesn't surprise me and other people at all! Only the ones who didn't even suspect Pi was implicit in the Bible! Must be pulling my legs! Something else to add besides the inaccuracy of reading Maya language is "dead"? Probably more than 50% of Mexican and people from Guatemala or Honduras indeed speak that very language! To think I was having a chat with someone who believed he knew something about Mayas! I regret I spent so much time discussing with such a fellow. I thought you were a little bit more educated. I was wrong. It's good anyway, now we can forget completely any reference about your PF "advice" and your persona.
Bye bye!

 

[oscar]

I'm dissapointed. In the theme Quantum Revolution in the subtitle "Kaku's Omission about Tycho crater" initiated by someone else, I'm not insulting, I just wanted to write about some more evidence about what is actually on Mars, and Mr. Moderator doesn't allow me to post in his FEAR of the truth:
www.mactonnies.com/imperative32.html[/URL]
[PLAIN]www.marsnews.com/news/20021004-boerner2.html[/URL]
[url]www.enterprisemission.com/message.htm[/url]
[URL]http://66.70.204.112/cydoniacontroversy[/URL]
[url]www.enterprisemission.com/ody.htm[/url]
[url]www.viewzone.com/marsface.html[/url]
Don't worry, I'm off a forum which erases what administrator wants to hide in behalf of science! I pity you!

 

[oscar]

Bye bye, you too, Mr. Moderator. Your attitude allows the reader and yourself how to deceive the public. Dr. Kaku can still figure out about aliens type I, II or whatever number. Let him and yourselves keep on searching.

 

[ahrkron]

One of the things that I find almost funny when reading the (sadly frequent) claim that "ancient people had Theory X all figured out", is the blatant ignorance such claims clearly display about theory X.

This instance is a particularly clear example. Oscar seems to think that using the same letters (t and b) has some relevance to the physics. It does not.

Similarly, the fact that some words in ancient texts seem similar to the names chosen for some concepts in today's physics makes no case at all. The content of those terms is given to them via precise predictions and measurements. Terms like "dark matter", "extra dimensions", "spacetime curvature", etc., have an extremely well-defined meaning only within a mathematical framework that connects them to experimental outcomes.

Oscar's claims are similar to saying that civilization X "knew all about TV" based on the fact that they had words for "tele" (=remote) and "vision". There is something else to a TV set than the name it has (i.e., about 100% of the important stuff).

 

[quddusaliquddus]

An instructive lesson can be learned from similar claims made in the past - when the 'trendiest' theory from science are chosen to be correlated with an ancient text. After a few years - as with most of science - a shif of persepective occurs due to some findings etc.. and those people are left in a Very embaressing situation.

 

[ahrkron]

Good point quddusaliquddus,

Also, it is interesting to notice how, after such embarassing moments, the ancient quote that turned out to be plain wrong starts to live a second life as a "symbolic" reference.

The selection of quotes from ancient texts has "evolved" this way. At any time in history, only those quotes compatible with scientific findings are held as examples of the wisdom of the ancients, or of the veracity of some relogious belief. The rest stay disregarded until applicable.

 

[oscar]

Ahrkron: You're putting the things in the wrong order. Science is given "labels" in Greek names as Kaku admited in his book with a humble attitude I rarely see in amateurs. The Greeks didn't name the things AFTER what is known now. The very expression "tele" that you use comes from Greek but it requires a concept and not just linguistic, of course. It's us the ones who use the notion of "atom" by Greek importation of the word and concept, so though they didn't have our modern devices they had the notion of something "undivisible". Now, you could worry if they knew something about "telepaty" that we could "experience" with submarines or even from out of the Earth and that eventually is demonstrated! Words and symbols are not independent knowledge; it's not a matter of playing games with words. Ancient names gave names according to what they understood independent of what we can or can't demonstrate...how did you wrote? Oh yes, you wrote "within a mathematical framework that connects them to experimental outcomes". I encourage you to read Dr. Kaku's humble attitude saying the math theorists don't even have the slightest idea why some numbers are chosen. And in fact, with the same math formulas we can "demonstrate" gravity exists as well as gravitons and that it doesn't exist, that is just an illusion; we can prove there's going to be a Big Rip or a Big Crunch and so on with contradictory statements and "experiments". Quoting Quddusaliquddus, that is embaressing! Very, very embaressing. If the Egyptians and the Hebrew text or Maya or Sumerian or Inca had the words and symbols and numbers, so we're not playing with games here. We have the astonishing ruins archeologists and historians still investigate, the temples SHOUT for themselves about what they knew, so don't give us the cocky impression the ancient people were dummy when even the Europeans at that time were stunned. Don't believe me, buy your local tv channel and check History Channel and see how puzzled they are; not even their mock ups and miniatures work when they try to imitate the building technique. All the temples, were done to reflect what they understood from heaven. If Dr.Hawass and Lehner's friends were incapable to answer some specific items in their Egyptian forum, I suppose you -who are not historians, nor archeologists but enjoy astronomy and math theories- won't be in particular advantage to answer some questions. Specially Nereid who wasn't even aware Maya language never "died". Of course, you can always try. Nice effort though! But I think is enough for answering you questions and wait for your replies pages after pages and still giving more information. I'm not naïve to ever think I will convince anybody. Nobody convinces anything at all even if you see a lot of formulas or specific information. The people CHOOSE what to believe and refuse.
Shall I interrogate you about science theories or history? Would you respond? Why don't you check ALL CONTRADICTORY THEORIES OF THESE VERY FORUM and select the ones you choose for everybody to know your scientific approach.
So Mr. Nereid, Akhron,Quddusaliqqudus or whoever, can write each one of your beliefs.
You can write what do you think the space is made of; the nature of time and space; if there's going to be a Big Rip or a Big Crunch, if neutrins do have mass or not; if there are real gravitons and gravity as a force or is just an illusion; if you believe we really understand the redshift or if we are misunderstanding the whole thing and confuse with the curve of space-time; which form of universe shall we swear upon and how many exact dimensions and so on. You know, what's going to be the answer? NO ISOLATED ANSWER. Each one of you are going to choose what you like so I ask you from the bottom of thy hearts. Is that science or just multiply theories as multiplied dimensions and universes? Hence, you can play the chess game and think you're "knowing". You can deceive yourselves but not me. I already said I had the guts to explain with anticipation what science can or may discover in the future:
1) There was God's (you may call "energy" if the title used by REAL scientists disturbs your sould) BIG CRUNCH before the BIG BANG. That's kaballah "formula". 2)Chaos gave birth to order as it was already explained in ancient translations, not just words, CONCEPTS, MR. 3) Hyperdimensional hybrid creatures allow to be seen in specific places and circumstances related to our Earth time. They were drawn by all ancient civilizations and called by the name of "gods" and "demons". The use of certain elements like pyramids (with the detail UNKNOWN by the readers here, the purpose of the polished stones even to optical level in some cases), copper preferred than iron, gold, arks, quartz, etc., helped in that interaction. It was always needed the use of hallucinogenic substances to have a chat with those realms cos the Hertz frequence was important. Some substances in fact have the chemical structure quite like serotonine or endorphines which were serve like "keys" to the brain "doors":
www.jornalinfinito.com.br/series.asp?cod=81[/URL]
[PLAIN]www.jornalinfinito.com.br/series.asp?cod=80[/URL]
That's the MEDIUM for the information. With some of these substances you don't even require the use of math formulas cos you can actually SEE even fractal geometry with closed eyes beyond the limits of minimum % of frequences available and caught by your eyes. Yet to keep on discussing the issue really goes OFF the topic I initiated. If anyone wants to contradict or disagree you can always OPEN a new thread and there I shall follow...of course, if I'm allowed! As I said before, Mr. Moderator didn't allow me to answer more information about MARS in the proper place not to discredit Dr. Kaku. I wonder why if my information is "pathetic" according to his own point of view. He should've let the readers judge by themselves how idiot can I be...or not. Therefore he is not only stopping me , he is indirectly thinking the readers are uncapable to discern what is true or false.

 

[oscar]

You can check specially blue lilly, psyloybin from mushrooms, mescalito in Mexico, Ayahuasca in Peru, etc:
www.montana.edu/wwwai/imsd/rezmeth/transmit.htm[/URL]
[url]www.peyote.com[/url]
[url]www.umsl.edu/~rkeel/180/hallucin.html[/url]
Of course, Dr. Kaku has another speciality in neo-Babel Russian salad of sciences, he didn't even IMAGINE the door to Planck's dimension can be achieved not by outerspace vehicles or energy but indeed it's always been done into innerspace...He's always confused, even in his Picasso and Dali's examples. Dali knew better than his examples cos Dali was connected with those realms in his crazyness. Kaku should've read Dali's concept about DNA and his biography to know better. Kaku confused the reflection in the mirror with reality. This thing you call "daily awareness" is just a gray shadow of what is real. That's why Dali's COLORS were different, they tried desperatly to achieve those Planks' realms where Azazel Asimov's demon may dwell. The squizophrenic universe was a mind disorder in psycological terms in other times. Then after they found out interesting physical differences compared with other brains. And now they have found in some of them (in marrows) the prions, bigger than virus but smaller than bacteria...who knows what are we going to learn in the future with better devices...hmmm? I better withdraw, now the Romans are coming to crucify me...

 

[oscar]

psylocybin..

 

[oscar]

...very "applicable" but I regret to say, the evidence is personal, very subjective from the observer's point of view, very objective for the one who experiences it...like the dreams not reproduced with machines in labs, yet very real.

 

[oscar]

Welcome to God's mind, the hollographic universe, expanding cosmo-vision "ideas"...like soap bubbles. Everything started in the "soup" of elements or information binary bites-bytes. Wawawawow!

 

[Andre]

oscar you said:

Specially Nereid who wasn't even aware Maya language never "died". (...)So Mr. Nereid, Akhron,Quddusaliqqudus or whoever, can write each one of your beliefs.

Sorry, Nereid, (a.k.a. Mr Moderator) allow me the fun, I say:

Especially oscar who wasn't even aware who Nereid "were"

..

The Nereids are the fifty daughters of Nereus and Doris who dwell in the Mediterranean Sea. These beautiful women were always friendly..

 

[ahrkron]

The very expression "tele" that you use comes from Greek but it requires a concept and not just linguistic, of course.

Of course. However, that has nothing to do with my point. My point can be exemplified like so: some ancient cultures' cosmology used the concept of chaos; then, as time passes, the same word is used to describe a quite different concept, much more precise and experimentally (phenomenologically) justified. At that point, saying that the ancient cultures "had it right" is nonsense, since their version of the concept was a different one. In a sense, the fact that we use the same word is an unlucky accident.

Also, don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying that ancient people were in any way less able to understand nature, or any such thing. In every age, there are people strongly devoted to understanding things without resorting to mysticism or dogmatic revelation. We do the same nowadays in physics labs and elsewhere.

It's us the ones who use the notion of "atom" by Greek importation of the word and concept, so though they didn't have our modern devices they had the notion of something "undivisible".

Again, there were two options: either the word was continuous all the way down, or started from undivisible components. The only way to decide among the options is experiment. If it had been that the world kept being continuous no matter the scale, you would now be saying that the other camp had it solved from the times of the greek philosophers, but you also would be doing it after the fact.

Words and symbols are not independent knowledge;

Of course not, but your using the word "independent" does not constitute a proof that you know all about linear algebra, even if such is concept used in that field.

Of course greek philosophers had some things right, but you seem to think that stating "space is curved" or "order came from chaos" is all there is to general relativity and cosmology. It is definitely not so. There are volumes of information missing from those phrases. Those one-liners are just catchy expresions included in pop sci books to let people touch the tip of the iceberg. Real science and philosophy need much more rigor and depth of analysis.

 

[Nereid]

The Maya did indeed have many achievements, in astronomy as well as other fields. So too did many other societies/civilisations, in South and Central America, in Asia, in the middle East, and so on.

The writings of many of these civilisations has been lost, and for quite a few, the surviving texts and inscriptions haven't been fully deciphered yet. For example, one of the links oscar provides says that "about one third of the [Mayan] pictorial characters have yet to be deciphered".

There can be no doubt that many very clever people lived in these old societies; nor that many of these developed means of making systematic obsevations of natural phenomena, of recording and (to some extent) analysing them, and of passing on the distilled knowledge to (then) future generations.

Where records have been well kept - as in China, for example - detailed study of the approaches and methods used by our ancestors is possible, and fascinating reconstructions are possible. Of course, many mysteries remain.

However, IMHO, the more we learn about these ancient (and some not so ancient) civilisations, the more it becomes clear that they were made up of people just like us - no brighter, no duller; no more peaceful, nor warlike; and so on. In particular, the more we know of them, the more clear it becomes that they did not have access to some deep wisdom or knowledge that has been lost. Indeed, it sometimes seems that less we know of a civilisation, the more fantastic the claims made about it.

Inventing hyper-dimensional gods to pass great knowledge into the minds of our otherwise dull ancestors seems to me a kind of insult to those ancestors; their achievements are what they are without any 'help'.

 

[oscar]

Well, for people who didn't have computers (that's progress accumulated through time) if we could rewind the history tape and give them computers and modern calculations, I wonder what they could achieve. Now, what a change in your point of view after some pages...for people who were saying that knowledge was "nothing". I never said the ancient people said "ALL THAT THERE IS" about science. If you understood that, it's your crossed-eyed vision. If with all that "rigor" with modern technology you can figure out 100 different thesis and hypothesis, well, well, well, allow me to keep on giving more details from what Mr. Science himself considers "catchy".
Mr. Nereid first needs to know URGENTLY Mayas' language was never "dead" as he wrote, before daring to say talking about gods was an insult to them. THEY WERE THE ONES WHO TALKED ABOUT GODS IN FIRST PLACE or you ignore that, Mr. Wise Man? So, on the contrary, far from insulting them I'm just setting the things in the right order. For Christ' sake, when someone who doesn't know even the basic history of the Mayas says "the more we know of them" it's really not an insult. It's an awful joke! If what is known astonishes the historians and astronomers, imagine what we can know about when the rest of the information is decoded.
And I repeat AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN. When the Incas or Mayas, or Egyptians did something usually they recorded what was achieved. But exactly the more astonishing deeds were frequently omitted and that is one of the most unanswered questions of the scholars. Some deed, and I'm talking in this context about calendars, were a gift from their gods. They said themselves. If a modern scientific mind wants to give them the glory of something they never admitted to invent, now, that is a non-scientific argument based upon "faith".
Of course they didn't know "all about algebra" cos I have said and REPEAT A 1000 TIMES, they didn't discover the formulas by themselves, it was already stablished what was important and what was irrelevant.
Of course the Mayas were not any less able to know about nature. What an idiotic statement after I have given enough information they indeed knew more and predicted eclipses. That's not cliché. That's a fact. If ignorance kept you out from Mayas' or Inca's universe all the time you were reading the same old crap about Greeks, that's your fault. Before saying the version of ancients regarding some "words" are different from modern phenomenically aspects, the one who writes should know what language is he talking about. Is he talking about Japanese concept of dwarf person called "chaos" or what? I have mentioned specifically even before the existence of the word chaos coming from Greek "kaos" THE CONCEPT IN HEBREW ALREADY EXISTING AND ORDER CAME OUT FROM THAT CHAOS. That is exactly the modern concept,you can adorn it with complicated formulas but IT IS THE SAME THING. I have explained the concept of time was already detailed in the fact the days of creation stablished a difference between "day ONE" in ordinal number differently from "second day" and following which are in cardinal number in Hebrew and several other details I have given for the ones who want to re-read again to compare. You,ignored that with your favorite attitude of jumping information. That's why you always get back to square one wandering around in circles. Now, we have a scientific mind that uses the same cliché and repetitive answer "unlucky accident". No, Mr, there were no accidents at all, the only thing happening here is proposital unawareness. The Mayas didn't have astronomers, Sr. they had astrologers. So, if you say in all times there were people who were not motivated by mysthicism, I have to say YOU'RE WRONG AGAIN. Not only in the past but until modern times. Einstein was a mysthic and so Newton, Mendeleiev, Leonardo Da Vinci and Ramanujan. So, if you want to discourage the idea in a subtle way to disregard as if mysthicism was something worthless, again and again and million times, YOU CONTINUE TO BE EXTREMELY IGNORANT.
Yet, you haven't answering my questions about your scientific "choices", each one of you in this "path of modern knowledge" and scientific bla-bla-bla that one day says one thing, the other day says other, the third day announces the same leftover of 13 years ago, the 4th day resurrects the final option and then says another thing.

 

[ahrkron]

even before the existence of the word chaos coming from Greek "kaos" THE CONCEPT IN HEBREW ALREADY EXISTING AND ORDER CAME OUT FROM THAT CHAOS. That is exactly the modern concept, you can adorn it with complicated formulas but IT IS THE SAME THING.

No, it isn't. That is precisely my point. Do you really think that the phrase "order came out from chaos" is all there is to modern cosmology? It is not. It is a pedagogical resource used in pop sci books, but no real work is done on the basis of such hugely vague and incomplete descriptions.

 

[ahrkron]

Of course the Mayas were not any less able to know about nature. What an idiotic statement...

Try to read things in context, and stop the name calling altogether. It can only get you banned.

 

[oscar]

Please, don't confuse ALL THE WORK DONE REGARDING A C-O-N-C-E-P-T with the concept itself. If you continue to compare religious book purpose with scientific purpose, the idiotic statement and the repetition of "all that there is" remains. Don't worry if I'm banned or not. I AM ALREADY BANNED, I CAN'T POST IN MOST OF THE PLACES HERE, THE ONLY REASON I'M ALLOWED HERE WAS COS MODERATOR WANTS TO KNOW HOW FAR WE GO ON IN THIS DISCUSSION.
Why don't you answer the questions about the immensely vague concepts letting have 100 different modern theories, you moron?

 

[Doc Al]

Please, don't confuse ALL THE WORK DONE REGARDING A C-O-N-C-E-P-T with the concept itself. If you continue to compare religious book purpose with scientific purpose, the idiotic statement and the repetition of "all that there is" remains. Don't worry if I'm banned or not. I AM ALREADY BANNED, I CAN'T POST IN MOST OF THE PLACES HERE, THE ONLY REASON I'M ALLOWED HERE WAS COS MODERATOR WANTS TO KNOW HOW FAR WE GO ON IN THIS DISCUSSION.

Oh really?

Why don't you answer the questions about the immensely vague concepts letting have 100 different modern theories, you moron?

After several warnings you persist with the insults, name calling, and rude behavior. Enough is enough.