Do you suffer from an affective disorder?

[MarcoD]

Gads! Are you people all still crazy?

Tell me if you've heard me say the following B4:



moral of the story: Do not leave psychology books laying around for teenagers to read.

God Cheeto. Crazy, no, damaged, yeah. I don't even try to stick a label on it, as an adult, I think I know when stuff is damaged beyond repair. I just mostly sit around and suffer, it's not more difficult than that. It just happens to people. I don't like it, and if I would be in the US, I would sue the hell out of some people. But, well, endgame.

 

[zoobyshoe]

I don't see the point. The DSM classifies mental disorders according to the symptoms. It doesn't classify according to the cause. Even Alzheimer's disease is classified in the DSM as a mental disorder.



Yes, such a person could be classified under Affective Disorder if he meets the criteria. That's the whole point: the cause doesn't matter. Only the symptoms matter for the DSM.
And of course, people with the same symptoms might benifit from a different cure. Psychiatrists know this. No two people are alike. And no two people with depression will benifit from the same cure.

You've stated my point a few times without understanding the significance: the DSM classifies by symptom rather than cause. The cause doesn't matter!

If all branches of medicine did that we might have a a branch of medicine called "chest pain" which would treat everything from heart attacks, to lung cancer, to pulled pectoral muscles exclusively by administering different forms of painkiller.

It would be very foolish to treat a diabetic for the emotional manifestations of their endocrine disorder with antidepressants, ignoring the underlying insulin production problem.

The whole DSM should eventually be greatly pared down as the underlying causes are sorted out and each person shunted to the field of medicine where they actually belong. Then the people who are left, whose problems arose primarily from prolonged stress, can be treated, as best as we know how, for that.

Alzheimer's doesn't belong in there, either, now that you mention it.

 

[zoobyshoe]

I think it's the difference between mild OCD, like organizing things, being a prefectionist, a clean freak, that's on one hand, mild OCD doesn't interfere with your life in a negative way, it can even have positive results. Then there is severe OCD, which is what we've started discussing now.

There are two different diagnoses in the DSM: 1.) Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, and 2.) Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder.

They are not the same thing, one is not a mild form of the other and they are classified in two different locations. Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder is in among the Personality Disorders, as the name suggests it would be.

Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder is the disorder whose main symptom is hyper-perfectionism even when getting things perfect has a high cost.

Obsessive Compulsive Disorder is primarily about anxiety and compulsive behaviors intended to relieve the anxiety.

To confuse things, although they are completely separate disorders, people with a diagnosis of one often exhibit some features of the other as well.

People with OCD more often than not successfully hide it from those around them for long periods of time. People with OCPD do not: it's usually quite apparent.

The casual, everyday use of the term OCD usually actually refers to symptoms of OCPD: perfectionism.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Somebody with OC tendencies already (not necissarily diagnosed with the D, for disorder) can be pushed over the top (into the actual disorder) by stress. This is actually a majority of what you see in hoarding episodes on TV, generally as a result of loss.

Most people will have lost a family member (or all the kids just grew up and moved away) right around when their hoarding started.

I know lots of hoarders that half keep up on themselves and still leave the house, but I can see a little attachment to their 'things' and if they were to lose faith in human interaction somehow, I could see how they may regress to those 'things'.

I've watched that show a few times and am surprised how often it comes out that the hoarders themselves have some insight into the fact it was triggered by a loss, but without understanding how to come to grips with that loss, except by hoarding.

I was also instantly reminded of that particular kind of homeless person who pushes around a shopping cart piled high with useless junk, and festooned with as many appended plastic shopping bags of useless junk as they can fit. I wonder how many of them lost their dwellings and their old lives, specifically as a result of their hoarding problem?

 

[zoobyshoe]

Ah well, I really don't like sharing. From stress and depression I went to anxiety to a bad response to medication to completely bonkers. It doesn't really affect my rationality much, but physically and mentally it's a mess. I'll never work again probably.

[ Anyway, to those here who are somewhat intelligent, a warning. Never, ever, take psychiatric medicine, unless it's really necessary or you really did your homework on it.]

This is a chronic problem and I can't tell you how many times I've heard the same thing: a person goes to a shrink for depression, gets a prescription for an anti-depressant, and the anti-depressant throws them over into a mania with psychotic features. It happened to one of my sisters who is now, as you say, completely bonkers.

I posted on a bi-polar forum for several months out of curiosity over the fact that most anti-convulsants seem to have a beneficial effect on bi-polar symptoms, and got the same story from several people there: their problem started as depression, they took and anti-depressant, and then got thrown over into mania and a psychotic episode.

 

[MarcoD]

This is a chronic problem and I can't tell you how many times I've heard the same thing: a person goes to a shrink for depression, gets a prescription for an anti-depressant, and the anti-depressant throws them over into a mania with psychotic features. It happened to one of my sisters who is now, as you say, completely bonkers.

I posted on a bi-polar forum for several months out of curiosity over the fact that most anti-convulsants seem to have a beneficial effect on bi-polar symptoms, and got the same story from several people there: their problem started as depression, they took and anti-depressant, and then got thrown over into mania and a psychotic episode.

God, the silly thing is that after forty years I think I know myself pretty well. That burn-out should never have ended into the position I am in now. Some tea and a little rest would have taken care of it.

The thing I am the most annoyed about is the 'repression' of the medical system. I don't think I am an outlier, it must have happened to lots of people, which means that psychiatrists just willfully destroy people's life, and there's no feedback system (like a financial penalty, or something else) which make that they don't continue that practice. Whoever gets 'burned,' ends up in another route of the system.

The whole system is flawed, as far as I see it, they sometimes help people by accident [IMO, probably the people who would get better anyway], and the rest ends up in the wastebasket. Unless your condition is such that you really need medicine, you're better off with any other solution.

[ Ah well. I am going to drop off this topic. But better you all people know the risks involved. ]

Addendum since I am a little annoyed:

Most of you are physicist so probably a great deal smarter than me. After the medication I looked at the statistical studies, the professional opinions, and the responses of patients on the net. Most studies show that most medicine hardly outperform placebo (and are also statistically flawed, IMO), a lot of people don't feel helped, and lots of people question the validity of the whole field.

Let's assume that you have a condition which either hardly can be treated or will pass by itself. Assume a Markov model where you have a 5% chance of getting better, and a 30% (probably to low) chance of being worse off: In how many steps will you probably be reduced to a blubbering idiot?

 

[micromass]

You've stated my point a few times without understanding the significance: the DSM classifies by symptom rather than cause. The cause doesn't matter!

If all branches of medicine did that we might have a a branch of medicine called "chest pain" which would treat everything from heart attacks, to lung cancer, to pulled pectoral muscles exclusively by administering different forms of painkiller.

It would be very foolish to treat a diabetic for the emotional manifestations of their endocrine disorder with antidepressants, ignoring the underlying insulin production problem.

The whole DSM should eventually be greatly pared down as the underlying causes are sorted out and each person shunted to the field of medicine where they actually belong. Then the people who are left, whose problems arose primarily from prolonged stress, can be treated, as best as we know how, for that.

Alzheimer's doesn't belong in there, either, now that you mention it.

The argument you're making now is that the DSM is essentially useless. I agree with that...

 

[bohm2]

Let's assume that you have a condition which either hardly can be treated or will pass by itself. Assume a Markov model where you have a 5% chance of getting better, and a 30% (probably to low) chance of being worse off: In how many steps will you probably be reduced to a blubbering idiot?

I'm not sure how representative this is of the population at large but I thought you might find this interesting:

Do antidepressants work? The Internet says...

http://neuroskeptic.blogspot.com/2011/05/do-antidepressants-work-internet-says.html

Montagne M: Miracle drug, poison, or placebo: patients' experiences with antidepressant medications as described in postings on an online message board.

Messages posted on the MSN Health message board in response to a news story reporting that antidepressant medications are placebos were examined. Over 37 days, 1,624 messages were posted by 1,238 unique authors. The sampling unit consisted of 960 authors who were users. Users' messages were gathered in real time and content analyzed. Few users explicitly responded to the question posed in the article: 2.5% of the users stated their antidepressant was a miracle drug, 2.0% stated it was a poison, and only 0.2% stated it was a placebo. Users reported positive experiences with antidepressants more than twice as often as they reported negative experiences.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21599508

 

[OmCheeto]

Actually, looking at the list again, and seeing the comment in the parentheses, I wish they'd have put; "All of the above" on the the list.

though the schizophrenia is discountable if one believes one is receiving messages from god. But I will still not vote for Bachmann... She cannot discern the difference between god and Satan... Would god have told her to marry that man? I don't think so.

ps. I will not be offended if a moderator deletes my post.

Though it will probably make me a bit more neurotic...

 

[lisab]

Lately I have had a strange thing going on with me, mentally...I'm not sure what it means.

Like, I feel like no one will give me up or let me down. And no one will run around and desert me. No one will make me cry, or say goodbye, or tell a lie and hurt me.

What do you suppose this is all about?

 

[HeLiXe]

lisab!

 

[micromass]

Lately I have had a strange thing going on with me, mentally...I'm not sure what it means.

Like, I feel like no one will give me up or let me down. And no one will run around and desert me. No one will make me cry, or say goodbye, or tell a lie and hurt me.

What do you suppose this is all about?

Oh my, lisab! That's a serious case of Rickitis.

 

[wolram]

Lately I have had a strange thing going on with me, mentally...I'm not sure what it means.

Like, I feel like no one will give me up or let me down. And no one will run around and desert me. No one will make me cry, or say goodbye, or tell a lie and hurt me.

What do you suppose this is all about?

Thats a thread killer

 

[rhody]

Thats a thread killer

Wolram,

This thread is in no danger of that, and I invented the thread killer gig, it worked last week, one time only... no chance it is needed again here.

Rhody...

 

[cobalt124]

..."little islands of relief"...

I was slowly coming to this conclusion myself, in my case with my obsessive, single minded approach to things I never allowed this to happen. Time to do things a bit differently.

...activities that for short periods (days to a week"...

So far I have managed a day, two tops.

...but what's the difference between OCD and attention to detail when not doing a job correctly can get you or someone else killed?...

IMO the difference is why attention is being paid to detail, and the why is important, for the individual as well as anybody else, and from a safety at work point of view. I wouldn't trust an affective disorder in a safety at work issue.

 

[MarcoD]

Messages posted on the MSN Health message board in response to a news story reporting that antidepressant medications are placebos were examined. Over 37 days, 1,624 messages were posted by 1,238 unique authors. The sampling unit consisted of 960 authors who were users. Users' messages were gathered in real time and content analyzed. Few users explicitly responded to the question posed in the article: 2.5% of the users stated their antidepressant was a miracle drug, 2.0% stated it was a poison, and only 0.2% stated it was a placebo. Users reported positive experiences with antidepressants more than twice as often as they reported negative experiences.

The problem is that this is a game where you either receive $10k or they drive a bullet through your head. How much do you think the benefits should outweigh the detrimental consequences in a game like that?

Btw. The studies are too simplistic since they don't do a real benefit/cost analysis.

[Anyway, the Effexor statistics are lies. It is widely known to be the antidepressant which most feel has the worst effects, and on its predecessor, the are medically published journals which questioned the risks involved with that medicine.]

IMO. The medicine is not helping anyone, at least not society as a whole. We would be better off without the whole field.

 

[bohm2]

IMO. The medicine is not helping anyone, at least not society as a whole. We would be better off without the whole field.

What's your opinion on the usefulness of "talk" or cognitive and behavioural therapies (e.g. CBT, mindfulness, ACT) in comparison to medication? Do you think society as a whole would also be better of without those therapies? I'm asking because I've had experience with both sides and I'm still not decided myself. I had short-term success with both but it seems like a life-long struggle for me, at least, with with respect to controlling/living with my anxiety.

 

[Evo]

The problem is that this is a game where you either receive $10k or they drive a bullet through your head. How much do you think the benefits should outweigh the detrimental consequences in a game like that?

Btw. The studies are too simplistic since they don't do a real benefit/cost analysis.

[Anyway, the Effexor statistics are lies. It is widely known to be the antidepressant which most feel has the worst effects, and on its predecessor, the are medically published journals which questioned the risks involved with that medicine.]

IMO. The medicine is not helping anyone, at least not society as a whole. We would be better off without the whole field.

Anecdotes are not scientific facts. Please link to the peer reviewed scientific studies that verify your claims.

 

[micromass]

[Anyway, the Effexor statistics are lies. It is widely known to be the antidepressant which most feel has the worst effects, and on its predecessor, the are medically published journals which questioned the risks involved with that medicine.]

IMO. The medicine is not helping anyone, at least not society as a whole. We would be better off without the whole field.

For what it's worth: I'm a user of efexor. And it has helped me tremendously. I also have almost no side effects from the medication!
I am very happy that medication exists. I could not live without it.

Prescribing medication is not an exact science. What helps for somebody doesn't help for another person. This is well-known of course.

 

[Evo]

I've also taken Effexor with no side effects and then quit, now back on Zoloft.

Marco, anecdotal evidence isn't sufficient to prove anything, sorry. There are lots of people that believe a lot of nonsense, like the misinformation on vaccines.

 

[Evo]

Marco an online petition is probably the worst kind of anecdote, it's people with no proof making unproven claims.

Do not post it again.

 

[micromass]

Also, it is not ok to stop efexor cold turkey. Apparently, many people do this. This will indeed lead to withdrawal symptoms. You should go to your doctor and make a plan to withdraw of efexor.

Apparently, many people choose to do cold turkey suddenly without informing their doctor. One should never do this without a consulation with a doctor!

 

[bohm2]

Anecdotes are not scientific facts. Please link to the peer reviewed scientific studies that verify your claims.

Irving Kirsch has done a lot of work questioning the efficacy of SSRIs with respect to depression. Just follow links in wiki. His more recent article is second link below. I'm still unsure how strong his arguments are. In the field (in NA), nobody seems to take them very seriously. I'm not absolutely certain, but I think I would have been screwed if not for medication (benzodiazepines-8 year use) to get me past a major hump in my life.

His conclusion:

Drug–placebo differences in antidepressant efficacy increase as a function of baseline severity, but are relatively small even for severely depressed patients. The relationship between initial severity and antidepressant efficacy is attributable to decreased responsiveness to placebo among very severely depressed patients, rather than to increased responsiveness to medication.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irving_Kirsch

http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pmed.0050045

 

[DoggerDan]

DoggerDan,

The best way I can describe rituals like cleaning is that you do it to the extreme, most times I do, like hardwood stairs, a three step process, no one does it like I do. There is a difference in an activity like that and say working in the milli-scary (pun intended) and being extremely focused in your job to prevent those in the field from getting killed. An OCD person in that situation would be ideal. Remember you have to have had this for a long time and the behavior patterns usually don't vary by much. Like I said awhile ago, I believe I have a mild case of it, that will intensify if I am under extreme stress. This has proven true for me time and again.

Another example would be when you are doing something you like you take it to the next level, what I like to call a "drill down mentality", here is a https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=422276&highlight=plasticity" I posted about awhile ago. I read the book I was interested in three or four times, each time paying more attention to concepts information I picked up on the previous read. For me at the time it seemed perfectly normal, but reflecting back on it I see how the subject of brain plasticity was becoming an obsession in itself and I backed off. Read a few of the posts and I am sure you will get a sense of what I mean. Don't get me wrong the subject is fascinating, but for most folks they are not partially consumed by it, as I was.

Does my explanation make sense to you ? Can you see how you don't have to totally fit the criteria of neurologists, psychologists in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM IV) to at least say that some of your thoughts and actions meet the criteria presented there for conditions such as OCD ?

Rhody...

Yes, Rhody, your explanation makes sense. It was quite good! Reading about OCD on Wikipedia tells me I don't have it. There's difference between doing something like checking tank pressures repeatedly because of the consequences of not doing so vs washing one's counter with bleach all the time, or simply washing it daily whether it needs it or not.

I think the key difference is "need." I know some people who do things whether the things need doing or not. To me, that's OCD. Similarly, they might also do things to excess, such as washing their hands like a surgeon before they eat dinner. That, too, is OCD.

As for the other things on the list, no, I don't have those, either. Pretty dull, huh?

 

[zoobyshoe]

I assumed she was paranoid scizophrenic. She thought lions were coming inside her house to eat her. She would only sleep on the living room couch so she would be prepared to escape the lion. I didn't know that she had OCD also. I always remember her fear of being in the house and fear of leaving the house, and hallucinations.

Here's the post you're referring to:

The most obvious way to tell whether you have an anxiety disorder is just to ask whether those situations cause you to experience anxiety.
I suspect that I might have OCPD and am almost certain that I have OCD. I'm not sure if you guys are talking about the same thing. For a possible example of each and the difference between them...

Just go with me on this - in many situations, there is a best way to do something: one set of correct answers to some problems, one set of most efficient ways to perform some procedure, and so on. It's also generally good to be orderly, prepared, resourceful, etc. and bad to be unorderly, unprepared, wasteful, etc. I believe all of this and try to act accordingly. It's certainly helpful in many situations, but it tends to leak into every area of my life, into stupid or insignificant situations, or otherwise get out of control.

For instance, I use pens regularly. I had to figure out several years ago which kind of pen was the best for me to use. I've been using that kind of pen ever since (the one pictured below). I don't like using other kinds of pens. I keep them well-stocked (I currently have 4 boxes of 12), and I always check to make sure that I have at least 2 or 3 with me when I go somewhere, in case one of them runs out of ink or doesn't work. This isn't so bad. But I also have to keep the cap of the pen lined up with the label on the pen, just as it is in the picture, because this is the 'best' position for the cap to be in; It's the most orderly.

I know that the position of the cap is really of absolutely no consequence, and I dont' experience significant anxiety if the cap is out of alignment or I have to use another pen or whatever. The thought just sticks in my head that I'm being unorderly, unprepared, etc., i.e., that I'm not being or doing the best that I can, which is unacceptable. And I'm this way about almost everything; There's a best slot for certain cards in my wallet, a best way to wash the dishes, I can't misspell words or make this list so short that it doesn't show how pervasive the thoughts are, I can't make it so long that people get bored with it, I have to confirm that 'pervasive' is the best word, that the reference of 'it' to 'the list' is clear, etc.

It's not very difficult to dismiss or resist the stupid ones, when I try. It's just usually easier to acquiesce. The ones that make sense are very difficult to resist, and I may not even want to resist them. If they are costly in time, effort, etc., I have to figure out the most efficient way to do them in order to avoid being wasteful.
It also bothers me when others don't live up to my standards, though I don't actually expect them to do so; I just can't help but notice. And I don't judge others negatively because of this; I'm only hard on myself. I think this may be OCPD.

What I am almost certain is OCD is very different. For example, I may be just sitting at the computer when the thought that there's a lion in the hallway about to break down the door and attack me just pops into my head; I may also get an image of the lion walking my way. I know that a lion actually being there is highly improbable and it's just my OCD, but arguing about this doesn't do any good. Depending on several factors, I may have to check to confirm that there is no lion or, if that is too scary, move a piece of furniture in front of the door or keep some kind of weapon or the phone next to me (to call 911). If the thought persists and I don't do these things, my body reacts as if the situation were real: I experience severe anxiety, perhaps escalating into a panic attack. I can't 'just control it' either. The presence of anxiety is huge factor in making a diagnosis of OCD. If you read cases of OCD sufferers, you'll see that it's nowhere near the normal experiences of anxiety or worry. It can become seriously disabling.

I have been effectively trapped in a small area for several hours due to an attack. The last time this happened, it was from the thought that there was an intruder in my mother's bedroom (the door was closed). I was stuck for two and half hours standing in a position where I could keep my eye on the doorknob (to see if they were coming out) and have a straight line to the front door, so that I could escape and run for help. The whole time, I was trying to argue myself out of the situation - I knew it was just my OCD. As hard as I tried, I couldn't even approach the door to check inside, make any noise at all, or let the doorknob out of sight for more than a few seconds. I couldn't leave the house for other reasons. I couldn't even sit down, because it would just take longer to get up and run for safety. I was prepared to run for my life the whole time. It only ended because my bother unexpectedly came home. I had already gone through all of my options and was resigned to the possibility of having to stand there for another 4 hours until my mother got home from work. And it would have gotten even worse when the sun went down. These attacks can make me unable to move, no matter how hard I try.
So it's no small thing, and I can't imagine how it could be helpful to experience anxiety or panic attacks in the absence of any real threat.

 

[Evo]

Here's the post you're referring to:

Yeah, that doesn't sound like OCD at all.

People with some severe forms of OCD fear that they might hurt someone or have hurt someone. They don't hallucinate or fear someone or something is hurting or killing them. She's paranoid disillusional, schizophrenic, whatever, but it's not OCD. Did she ever get the psychiatric help she needed?

 

[zoobyshoe]

Yeah, that doesn't sound like OCD at all.

People with some severe forms of OCD fear that they might hurt someone or have hurt someone. They don't hallucinate or fear someone or something is hurting or killing them. She's paranoid disillusional, schizophrenic, whatever, but it's not OCD. Did she ever get the psychiatric help she needed?

No, she wasn't hallucinating or delusional. The "lion in the hall" is just a fictional example. This thread, in which she participates, makes that more clear:

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=83232

The actual thing that paralyzed her was the thought there was an intruder in the house. She says a couple times she knows there isn't one, that this is only her OCD, but it's the nature of the OCD that she can't stop reacting to it as if it were real.

In HRW's case, recall what I said about her father having attacked her mother with a hatchet. He snuck into the house and attacked her in bed. They were divorced and fortunately the attack was foiled by her stepfather who was there. Anyway, the "intruder in the house" is well explained as an insistent anxiety.

So, it might be Post-Traumatic Stress as opposed to OCD, but, yes, she was diagnosed with OCD and tried therapy a couple times.

 

[MarcoD]

Ah well, my experience with Effexor is that I will never be able to work in my field again. So, for what it's worth, just take that to heart.

 

[Monster92]

Many times I have anxiety attacks. I have never been treated for them as such. Although I am going to seek help at my uni as it is an opportunity to get help for a low price D:. I'm actually worried now. I haven't made a single friend at university yet, I've been here three days. My flat mates seems to have friends...:(

 

[Evo]

Many times I have anxiety attacks. I have never been treated for them as such. Although I am going to seek help at my uni as it is an opportunity to get help for a low price D:. I'm actually worried now. I haven't made a single friend at university yet, I've been here three days. My flat mates seems to have friends...:(

Don't worry if it's only been 3 days, even 3 weeks, people are settling in, trying to figure everything out, so they tend to be less focused on things around them. You will make friends.

 

[micromass]

Many times I have anxiety attacks. I have never been treated for them as such. Although I am going to seek help at my uni as it is an opportunity to get help for a low price D:. I'm actually worried now. I haven't made a single friend at university yet, I've been here three days. My flat mates seems to have friends...:(

Don't worry monster. I only made friends after a few months. Some people just make friends faster than other people.

 

[Evo]

Don't worry monster. I only made friends after a few months. Some people just make friends faster than other people.

Besides Monster, we're your friends. And we don't accept just anyone as a friend. So there.

 

[Galron]

You forgot Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD) btw, should have a category of its own although technically it is a bi polar disorder and like Manic depression it seems to related to light sensitivity, with both disorders having more depressive phases in winter. I have a friend who suffers from it really badly, so... Worst case it can be completely debilitating.

I tend to suffer from a lot of physical ailments related to poor immune system, or should I say over active, I get asthma, eczema and sometimes hay fever (although thankfully rarely), which is linked to the only mental disorder I tend to get and that is depression, although I have pills for it, which are very effective and allow me to manage it well. Incidentally people on strong immunosuppressants are sometimes given anti depressants as your immune system seems intimately related to certain mental states, and a side effect, although not all that common, of strong suppressants is depression. It's hardly surprising then that depression causes a weakening of your immune system and I'm sure there is a correlation there, although I am speculating a tad.

 

[physics girl phd]

You forgot Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD)

yeah.. I definitely get a touch of that. Nothing disabling, but definitely I just want to go somewhere, and take a nap... or turn bright lights on. This is a problem because my spouse likes it dim.

Come to think of it, he also has poor hearing (like all spouses). That might be a bad thing regarding my misophonia... which also seems to be partly a result of very good hearing.

 

[bohm2]

yeah.. I definitely get a touch of that. Nothing disabling, but definitely I just want to go somewhere, and take a nap... or turn bright lights on. This is a problem because my spouse likes it dim.

Come to think of it, he also has poor hearing (like all spouses). That might be a bad thing regarding my misophonia... which also seems to be partly a result of very good hearing.

I have major misophonia. It's hell.