EPA says Volkswagen installed software to cheat on emissions

In summary: This could be a much bigger problem.In summary, Volkswagen admitted to cheating U.S. air pollution tests by turning off pollution controls during normal driving. The company could face billions in fines and possible criminal prosecution.
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  • #108
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/19/b...nding-cuts-and-regulatory-deadlines.html?_r=0
FRANKFURT — Volkswagen is expected to announce substantial spending cuts on Friday as the carmaker braces for the financial impact of its emissions-cheating crisis — potentially setting up a confrontation with its powerful labor representatives.

Volkswagen also faces a Friday deadline to inform regulators in the United States of how it plans to bring its diesel cars there into compliance with air-quality standards. The company admitted in September that it had installed software in the cars that was meant to enable the vehicles to cheat on emissions tests.
 
  • #109
Anyone have their VW card yet?

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/vw-scandal...car-buyers-what-about-other-countries-1527954
News that Volkswagen has offered $1,000 in credit to 482,000 owners of its scandal-hit diesel cars in the US and Canada has not gone down well in the UK. While owners of cars whose 2-litere four-cyclinder diesel engines implicated in the emissions scandal will get a $500 Visa gift card and a $500 dealership card as well as free 24-hour roadside assistance for three years, customers in the UK will get nothing.
 
  • #110
The VW emissions scandal is mainly the result of physics meeting fiction. In the simplest terms, we have reached the point of de miminis returns in extracting performance from a gallon of diesel while reducing pollutants, at least at reasonable cost. Unsurprisingly, and despite having the greatest research and development program in diesel engines, VW had to cheat to meet current European and U.S. standards. Meeting future tighter diesel standards will prove even more fruitless.

For a significant fraction of the non-compliant diesel cars already in the hands of drivers, there is no real solution. Drivers won’t come in for a fix that compromises performance. Further, solutions which result in net greater CO2 emissions, a regulated pollutant, are inappropriate for CARB to endorse. Retrofitting urea tank systems to small cars is costly and impractical. Some cars may be fixed, but many won’t and will be crushed before they are fixed.
http://www.takepart.com/open-letter-to-california-air-resources-board-chairman-mary-nichols
 
  • #111
Im curious what they mean for their trade in offer:
VW is already offering $2,000 to current VW owners to trade in their cars for new vehicles.

What new car? What kind? I assume it must be a gasoline engine vehicle, as a VW diesel that actually complies with US EPA (all the time :eek: ) must be very under powered.
 
  • #115
German automaker Volkswagen Group said Wednesday that when it initially discovered its own emissions scandal it didn't think the issue would cost very much.

The admission — part of a statement designed to show that it did not defraud investors — came as the automaker may be facing tens of billions in U.S. fines and lawsuits, according to analysts.

The company also took the unusual step of disclosing certain details regarding former CEO Martin Winterkorn's knowledge of the emissions violations before they were disclosed to U.S. regulators.

VW cited one unidentified automaker as having paid a $100 million fine in 2014 after certain violations of U.S. emissions laws.

"Volkswagen was advised that in the past" that U.S. emissions penalties "were not especially high for a company the size of Volkswagen," the company said Wednesday in the statement.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2016/03/02/volkswagen-emissions-scandal/81214726/

Wow.

Lemme translate that into English for you:
"We continue to arrogantly maintain that we are above the law and are genuinely confused as to why we are being punished for breaking laws we don't want to obey. Oh, and we're going to continue to pretend we didn't know about our own scandal while we were doing it."

Did I say, "wow"? Clicking back to page 1 and reading the first few posts of the thread, it looks to me like it was immediately evident to PFers how serious this was (like, maybe the biggest recall/financial loss in the history of cars).
 
  • #116
russ_watters said:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2016/03/02/volkswagen-emissions-scandal/81214726/

Wow.

Lemme translate that into English for you:
"We continue to arrogantly maintain that we are above the law and are genuinely confused as to why we are being punished for breaking laws we don't want to obey. Oh, and we're going to continue to pretend we didn't know about our own scandal while we were doing it."

Did I say, "wow"? Clicking back to page 1 and reading the first few posts of the thread, it looks to me like it was immediately evident to PFers how serious this was (like, maybe the biggest recall/financial loss in the history of cars).
Somebody awhile back posted a video of a well informed German engineer, you may recall, on the subject of VW that explains in part. He suggested that the European legal system has encouraged a got to cheat mentality. The penalties from litigation were so light that if business entered a market competition on the level they were certain to lose to a cheat. The vicious circle of corruption.
 
  • #117
russ_watters said:
They paid for something they did not receive: a clean burning diesel engine (it is called the "clean diesel"). That's one of VW's major marketing points. A feature that sets them apart from other cars.

Heck, I could even see putative damages for pain and suffering: because of VW, I've been breaking the law and that traumatized me!
So, not the owners, but the FTC is suing on their behalf:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money...ssion-volkswagen-group-clean-diesel/82376012/
 
  • #118
http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-qa-volkswagen-scandal-fix-20160421-story.html

It's been seven months since the Volkswagen emissions-cheating scandal broke and the affected cars still aren't fixed.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...code-words-said-to-complicate-emissions-probe
The probe, which was expected to wrap up by the end of April, has been slowed by the use of dozens of code words, including “acoustic software,” for the illicit technology Volkswagen used to turn off pollution controls when cars were on the road, said the people, who asked not to be identified because the investigation is confidential. The obfuscation along with partly insufficient and outdated computer systems made it difficult to find evidence concrete enough to hold individual employees accountable, they said.
 
  • #119
Looks like they are going for the buyback option in the US. Now we know why the deal took so long, that's a huge amount of cash.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-volkswagen-emissions-usa-idUSKCN0XH2CX

Volkswagen AG and U.S. officials have reached a framework deal under which the automaker would offer to buy back almost 500,000 diesel cars that used sophisticated software to evade U.S. emission rules, two people briefed on the matter said on Wednesday.

The German automaker is expected to tell a federal judge in San Francisco Thursday that it has agreed to offer to buy back up to 500,000 2.0-liter diesel vehicles sold in the United States, the people said.
 
  • #120
There seems to be some differing accounts:
Volkswagen is said to be close to announcing a deal to compensate U.S. owners of its scandal-afflicted diesel vehicles, as the company approaches a critical federal court hearing Thursday morning without a publicly identified plan to fix those vehicles.

The company is expected to offer individual owners $5,000 apiece as compensation for having been sold cars that pollute more than is legally allowed, according to ahttps://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&prev=search&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=de&u=http://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article154583238/Betrogene-Kunden-sollen-5000-Dollar-von-VW-erhalten.html&usg=ALkJrhj75tEz5lpayj33bB0q0-N01alhbg.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money...gen-group-emissions-scandal-hearing/83284748/

And:
Separately, http://www.autonews.com/article/20160420/OEM11/160429980/vw-said-to-pay-u-s-customers-5000-as-part-of-diesel-settlement that Volkswagen has also "reached the framework of a deal" to fix cars after EPA regulators rejected a repair plan submitted in January.
Unless Reuters changed their story, that's a mis-paraphrase. The article (though it isn't from Reuters.com) currently (2:07 pm edit time) says the deal is to buy them back.

The USA Today article I saw this morning. Negotiating ploy?
 
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  • #121
It seems to me there are at least two separate deals in the works if you parse all the news stories.
1. Buy-back program with incentive compensation for 2.0L cars without urea injection to get those off the road in the US unless there is a (unlikely) fix at some future date.
2. Some sort of cash compensation levels and limits to owners with 3.0L urea injection cars to get them fixed later when that deal details are worked out.
 
  • #122
I don't see a plausible path for an uncompensated "fix" solution. How many will volunteer to have their vehicle modified for either worse mpg or lower power, which are the consequences of retuning the engine parameters to lower emissions, as I understand it.
 
  • #123
mheslep said:
I don't see a plausible path for an uncompensated "fix" solution. How many will volunteer to have their vehicle modified for either worse mpg or lower power, which are the consequences of retuning the engine parameters to lower emissions, as I understand it.
Yeah, that's exactly what I've been thinking. I think VW is engaging in wishful thinking and they are in deep trouble financially and are still not ready to fully face it even though they seem on the surface to be owning up to it all. Sort of.
 
  • #124
mheslep said:
I don't see a plausible path for an uncompensated "fix" solution. How many will volunteer to have their vehicle modified for either worse mpg or lower power, which are the consequences of retuning the engine parameters to lower emissions, as I understand it.
Only the ones who want to pass a state inspection...

Currently, the state's are operating on a principle of see no evil, hear no evil, detect no evil with a combustion gas analyzer. I would think that once the fix comes out that will stop and the owners will have to prove the fix was installed.
 
  • #125
http://arstechnica.com/cars/2016/04...official-its-buying-back-500000-2-0l-diesels/
http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-technology/news/a28916/vw-tdi-emissions-settlement/

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-volkswagen-emissions-idUSKCN0XI24G
U.S. Judge Charles Breyer said the settlement is expected to include a buyback offer for 482,000 2.0-liter vehicles and a possible fix if regulators agree on it, or the cancellation of an outstanding lease.

Two people briefed on the matter and several analysts say VW may have to spend more than $10 billion to comply with the U.S. agreement.

It's amazing we still don't know exactly who did what in this scam but a $10 billion payoff must be cheaper to VW than going to court in the US.
 
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  • #126
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/27/b...-showed-how-to-foil-emissions-tests.html?_r=0
FRANKFURT — A PowerPoint presentation was prepared by a top technology executive at Volkswagen in 2006, laying out in detail how the automaker could cheat on emissions tests in the United States.

The presentation has been discovered as part of the continuing investigations into Volkswagen, according to two people who have seen the document and who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the legal action against the company. It provides the most direct link yet to the genesis of the deception at Volkswagen, which admitted late last year that 11 million vehicles worldwide were equipped with software to cheat on tests that measured pollution in emissions.

kids.jpg
 
  • #127
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-volkswagen-emissions-settlement-idUSKCN0Z9235

Volkswagen AG (http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/overview?symbol=VOWG_p.DE) will pay more than $10 billion to settle claims by nearly 500,000 owners stemming from its U.S. diesel emissions cheating scandal and fund efforts to offset pollution, three sources briefed on the agreement said on Thursday.

Speaking on condition of anonymity, due to court-imposed gag rules, a source said that owners will receive an average of $5,000 in compensation along with the estimated value of the vehicles as of September 2015, before the scandal erupted. Owners would also receive the compensation if they choose to have the vehicles repaired, assuming U.S. regulators approve a fix at a later date.
...
The settlement is complex, requiring owners to fill out detailed worksheets about their vehicle to calculate the buyback value.

Reuters reported in April that owners may have two years before having to decide whether to sell back vehicles.
...
VW is not expected to be allowed to resell or export repurchased vehicles, unless they convince regulators that they can be fixed, sources said.

Former owners of the polluting vehicles will also be eligible for compensation - although less than current owners, sources said.
 
  • #128
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...said-to-face-15-billion-tab-in-u-s-settlement
Volkswagen AG’s price tag to settle lawsuits in the U.S. over its rigging of diesel emissions tests has jumped to more than $15 billion -- $5 billion more than previously reported -- on the eve of a settlement to be filed Tuesday in a San Francisco court.

Under the deal, VW will set aside up to $10.03 billion to cover costs including buying back vehicles at pre-scandal values and compensating drivers as much as $10,000 per car for their troubles, two people familiar with the negotiations said. Those figures could rise if VW misses certain deadlines.

In addition, Volkswagen will pay $2.7 billion in fines that will go to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency and the California Air Resources Board and invest $2 billion in clean-emissions technology, one of the people said. The carmaker is also expected to announce a settlement with states, including New York, for about $400 million, another person said.

That's it ... I expect owners under CARB will have mandatory registration requirements for affected cars very soon.
http://media.vw.com/release/1214/
 
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  • #130
U.S. authorities have found three unapproved software programs in 3.0 liter diesel engines made by Volkswagen's (http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/overview?symbol=VOWG_p.DE) Audi (http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/overview?symbol=NSUG.DE) unit, German weekly Bild am Sonntag reported, without saying where it had obtained the information.

The software allowed the turbocharged direct injection (TDI) engines used in Audi's Q7, Porsche's Cayenne and VW's Touareg models to shut down emissions control systems after about 22 minutes, the paper said. Official methods to measure emissions usually last about 20 minutes, it added.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-volkswagen-emissions-audi-idUSKCN10I0PB
http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...ting-software-reportedly-found-in-vw-diesels/
 
  • #131
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-autoshow-paris-engines-exclusive-idUSKBN12E11K
Independent testing in the wake of VW's exposure last year as a U.S. diesel emissions cheat has shed more light on the scale of the problem facing automakers.

Carmakers' smallest European engines, when driven at higher loads than current tests allow, far exceed legal emissions levels. Heat from the souped-up turbos generates diesel NOx up to 15 times over the limit; gasoline equivalents lose fuel-efficiency and spew fine particles and carbon monoxide.

"They might be doing OK in the current European test cycle, but in the real world they are not performing," said Pavan Potluri, an analyst with influential forecaster IHS Automotive.

"So there's actually a bit of 'upsizing' going on, particularly in diesel."
 
  • #132
It's a bit unfair to criticize manufacturers for meeting standards for the conditions they were told to meet them for, but not for different conditions. Particularly when these standards are being set for political reasons. Brussels has decided that electric/PHEV cars are the way to go, so they publish absurdly optimist electric range estimates (roughly 2x what the US EPA estimates) and at the same time tighten diesel requirements.
 
  • #133
Vanadium 50 said:
It's a bit unfair to criticize manufacturers for meeting standards for the conditions they were told to meet them for, but not for different conditions. Particularly when these standards are being set for political reasons. Brussels has decided that electric/PHEV cars are the way to go, so they publish absurdly optimist electric range estimates (roughly 2x what the US EPA estimates) and at the same time tighten diesel requirements.
Isn't that analagous to saying 'it's a bit unfair to charge me with tax evasion when my taxes are set by political agenda and are too much for me to pay'?
 
  • #134
DaveC426913 said:
Isn't that analagous to saying 'it's a bit unfair to charge me with tax evasion when my taxes are set by political agenda and are too much for me to pay'?
No: if you remove the sentence about politics, the problem still exists: the standards don't match reality. That's a fact, not a self-interest driven opinion like "my taxes are too high". And that's a problem regardless of why it happened.
 
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  • #135
russ_watters said:
No: if you remove the sentence about politics, the problem still exists: the standards don't match reality. That's a fact, not a self-interest driven opinion like "my taxes are too high". And that's a problem regardless of why it happened.
It's one thing to optimize the performance of a car for testing conditions. That might be called gaming the system.

It's another to actually turn off an emissions compliance system that is supposed to be operating at all times when one leaves the testing conditions. That seems like cheating the system.
 
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  • #136
I can't remember the last time that I heard of a corporate executive actually being charged with a crime. Usually it's just the pay a fine and admit no wrongdoing game. :oldeyes:

F.B.I. Arrests Volkswagen Executive on Conspiracy Charges in Emissions Scandal

Oliver Schmidt, who led Volkswagen’s regulatory compliance office in the United States from 2014 to March 2015, was arrested on Saturday by investigators in Florida and is expected to be arraigned on Monday in Detroit, said the two people, a law enforcement official and someone familiar with the case.
 
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  • #137
... 2004, Grass pleaded guilty and reached a plea agreement to serve at least eight years in prison ...Nacchio was sentenced to six years in prison ...Forbes ... was sentenced to 12 years in prison ...Scrushy was finally sentenced to six years and 10 months in prison...Embers...currently serving a 25-year sentence in a Louisiana jail...Skilling...sentenced to 24 years and four months in prison...
http://247wallst.com/special-report/2012/05/17/top-ten-ceos-sent-to-prison/3/
 
  • #138
http://www.forbes.com/sites/bertels...perils-higher-ups-at-volkswagen/#3d87e6283c4e
“VW bosses live dangerously,” was the headline in Germany’s BILD tabloid (German – paywall) after the FBI arrested Volkswagen manager Oliver Schmidt over the weekend during a trip to Florida. The U.S. Department of Justice is assembling an array of witnesses against Volkswagen while the company is trying to close a deal to make a criminal case go away before Donald Trump comes in.
...
The FBI didn’t catch that meeting, but it found evidence of another one, a year later.

“On or about July 27, 2015, SCHMIDT and other VW employees presented to VW’s executive management in Wolfsburg, Germany, regarding the existence, purpose and characteristics of the defeat device,” the FBI claims, continuing that “in the presentation, VW employees assured VW executive management that U.S. regulators were not aware of the defeat device. Rather that advocate for disclosure of the defeat device to U.S. regulators, VW executive management authorized its continued concealment.” The same executive management claimed later not having heard anything of a defeat device until the scandal broke in September 2015

The plan to keep the defeat device concealed was duly followed, until a month later, “Volkswagen stunned U.S. regulators with a confession,” as Reuters wrote. According to Reuters, it was at the sidelines of a green car conference on August 21, 2015 when VW employees admitted to EPA and CARB that “the automaker hacked its own cars to deceive U.S. regulators,” as Reuters put it. The FBI says the admission came two days earlier, on August 19, 2015, in a meeting at CARB’s offices in El Monte, CA. “In direct contravention of instructions from his management,” a Volkswagen engineer fessed up at the meeting, the Feds claim.

That engineer is one of two “cooperating witnesses” the FBI found in VW’s engine development department. Both have, says the FBI, “agreed to cooperate with the government’s investigation in exchange for an agreement that the government will not prosecute [them] in the United States.” Also, the government has the cooperation of VW engineer James Liang, who cut a plea deal last September.
 
  • #139
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/11/...column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
WASHINGTON — Federal prosecutors announced criminal charges on Wednesday against six Volkswagen executives for their roles in the company’s emissions-cheating scandal, a substantial turn by a departing administration that is trying to remake its image of being soft on corporate crime.

The six executives include a former head of development of the Volkswagen brand and the head of engine development. One of those charged on Wednesday, Oliver Schmidt, was arrested in Florida last week; the other five are believed to be in Germany.

Volkswagen also formally pleaded guilty to charges of conspiracy to commit wire fraud and to violate the Clean Air Act, customs violations and obstruction of justice. Many of the 600,000 cars in the United States equipped with emissions-cheating software were imported from Germany or Mexico.

The automaker is set to pay $4.3 billion in criminal and civil penalties in connection with the federal investigation, bringing the total cost of the deception to Volkswagen in the United States, including settlements of suits by car owners, to $20 billion — one of the costliest corporate scandals in history.
 

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