Finding Purpose in Life: An Epicurean Perspective

[moose]

I'll never die, so I will find out someday

EDIT: So who else actually thinks they will never die?

 

[Alkatran]

My goal in life is to not die for as long as possible.

As evidenced by this post, I'm not doing a very good job.

 

[Astronuc]

Death is the last thing I plan to do in this world.

 

[Pyrrhus]

My purpose in Life is to help.

 

[scorpa]

My purpose in life is to get an insanely high GPA to get into the program I want. It's a sad little existence I have :(

 

[Moonbear]

Death is the last thing I plan to do in this world.

Me too. Everyone has to try it once.

 

[Astronuc]

I knew I liked you for some unknown reason! Since I'm not rich, famous, or handsome, (I KNOW! I can't believe it either!) I believe I'm to be here to be good and help someone. My secondary quest is the search for spiritual creaminess.

Thanks E6S. It's always great to make new friends.

I don't care for wealth, except that it would allow me to do research, and support programs in sustainable development and environmental restoration and preservation. I live comfortably and provide for my family, occassionally a friend, and several charities.

I don't care for fame. I prefer to work quietly while drawing little attention.

I don't worry about being handsome - the avatar is not sexy or handsome - I'm like an old dog - just there for the people who need me or someone.

spiritual creaminess.

Eh?

 

[Reshma]

My purpose in life is...to have everlasting happiness!

 

[loseyourname]

I'll never die, so I will find out someday

EDIT: So who else actually thinks they will never die?

Oh, I'm going to try my best. Now that there exist brain interfaces that allow a quadrapelegic to control rudimentary robotic arms and computer cursors with his thoughts, I'm hoping within the next 50 years or so, we'll have full mechanical bodies and not have to worry about anything but preserving the brain. I suppose my goal between now and then is to retire with enough money to afford a robotic shell for my brain when my body starts to go.

 

[marlon]

Bull. You don't have to be famous to improve humanity.

I am not talking about famous people here, i am talking about exceptionally gifted people. They make the difference, they make the big contributions. What we do (ie the commoners like you and me) is not bad but it is neglgible with respect to the advancement of humankind.

I mean, without him we wouldn't have the nuclear bomb.

Wrong, Einstein never supported that particular implementation of his theories. Besides, this is an argument you can state about almost every onject that is known to mankind.

There is no such things as an average individual.

Yes there is, i am talking about average (physical, intellectual,...)capabilities.

You say that like "regular people" (which don't actually exist) are like the scum of the earth

How on Earth do you come to this conclusion ?

and that the famous are gods among men.

Again, you are mixing fame with capabilities.

Maybe you see yourself as insignificant, but that's not what I see in myself.

The chance of us doing actually something great is very small. With "something great" i mean, a new idea that really advances mankind. This can be for example a scientific development, writing a great piece of music, inveting new software that makes life much more easy, etc etc

marlon

 

[marlon]

"Joe Schmoe" had the desire and the motivation to live for the advancement and preservation of humanity, rather than hoping one day they can afford to buy a nice new shiny SUV with a sunroof and live in a big house with a pool and tennis court.

Don't you know that 99.9% of the Joe Scmoes that are trying to achieve the goal you mentionned, actually never acquire it ? Hell, most people only dream about it but they do not have the guts/intelligence/perseverance to actually make the necessary moves to get to that goal.

So, what you state here, really, is pure nonsense since you obviously are using an example that contains a fundamental "contradictio in terminis".

Sorry

regards
marlon

 

[Astronuc]

I mean, without him [Einstein] we wouldn't have the nuclear bomb.

No, it was inevitable once the nuclear structure of matter was discovered. Rutherford's experiments with alpha particle showed the dense nuclear core of an atom, Chadwick determined the existence of the neutron (1932), Otto Hahn and F. Strassmann (1936 to 1938)(http://nobelprize.org/chemistry/laureates/1944/press.html) discovered the fission process with a lot of work from Lise Meitner, and Fermi and Leo Szilard started thinking about the priniciples of a chain reaction.

Marlon - you and the others here at PF are far from common. Don't give up yet, but when an opportunity arises - seize it.

 

[Curious3141]

To ensure it is one of loud desperation.

 

[Entropy]

No, it was inevitable once the nuclear structure of matter was discovered.

So? Relativity probably would have been discovered (in one form or another) eventually too, even without Einstein. Understand where I'm going with this?

 

[Entropy]

What we do (ie the commoners like you and me) is not bad but it is neglgible with respect to the advancement of humankind.

Thats not what you where implying in your previous pst. You where implying that the "little" people can't make a difference at all, and they that only serve selfish needs that help them survive.

Besides, this is an argument you can state about almost every onject that is known to mankind.

Yeah, that was my point.

Yes there is, i am talking about average (physical, intellectual,...)capabilities.

I know. You fail to understand what the definition of average is. Most people don't have an IQ of 100 even though it is the average IQ. And just because people have similar intellegence and/or capabilities doesn't mean that have anything else in common. What type of capabilities? Math skills? Writing skills? Drawing? Running? Jumping? Swimming? Social skills? Management? Finances? Carpendry? Masonry? Etc.? How many people in the world do you think are just "average" at EVERYTHING. Chances are your good at something (maybe not the best) that most people aren't good at. Taking this into account, there is no such thing as an average person.

The reason I'm making a big deal out of this is because I don't like being labled an average joe, because I don't have anything in common with 99% of the people you call average joes, other than the fact that we're not famous.

 

[Azael]

I guess to simply se what is going to happen tomorrow and offcourse to constantly learn new things.

 

[BobG]

I don't worry about being handsome - the avatar is not sexy or handsome ...

Well, duh! Why don't you try shaving off that damn beard? And get a haircut while you're at it!

My purpose in life - improve the grooming standards of the human race. (And to ban excessive body piercings and tattoos.)

Edit: Why do you need a purpose for your life? Isn't it worthwhile in its own right?

 

[Astronuc]

Well, duh! Why don't you try shaving off that damn beard? And get a haircut while you're at it!

at the post, not the poster. Sorry about that Bob, but the beard stays and the hair's getting longer. There's group of older women at my church who dearly want me to shave so that they can see my face. Even my children have not seen my chin or cheeks.

The beard goes to the grave, or actually pyre in my case, with me.

Besides various Orthodox monks have offered me shelter in their monasteries. It's tempting. The Balkan and Rhodopian mountains are beautiful, as are the monasteries. The other possibility is Tibet.

And there are plenty of wretched places I could serve humanity.

Anyway, as long as someone special wants me around - I'll be around.

My purpose in life - improve the grooming standards of the human race. (And to ban excessive body piercings and tattoos.)

I did have a pierced left ear for a while during the 70's, before it became the thing to do.

 

[Orefa]

To Serve Man.







...oh wait...



...it's a cookbook!



aka



It's PEOPLE! Soylent Green is people! AAaarghhh!



[Gasp! I think I lost it there for a minute...]

 

[Astronuc]

One more thought . . .

I need to find my replacement, and he or she needs to be highly intelligent with a strong constitution and attitude.

 

[Blahness]

To catch up on the 10 years of life I lost from video games!

5 to 15, wasted. I could have skipped grades in school, too. ;_;

Oh well, time to catch up on studies and such.

 

[Loren Booda]

Astronuc

The beard goes to the grave, or actually pyre in my case, with me.

Make sure to include that in your living will. My father's 40-year mustache was routinely shaved off in his nursing home.

 

[marlon]

Marlon - you and the others here at PF are far from common. Don't give up yet, but when an opportunity arises - seize it.

Thanks Astronuc, as always you are able to state your thoughts in a far more diplomatic manner as i am. But anyhow, i do think that there is a "difference" between people. With difference, i mean the difference in level of capabilities. Only very few people are able to achieve something great in life that serves mankind. I know that most people don't like it when one says this but it is the truth. These words do not imply that most people are stupid, it just means that most people are not "great minds". I will certainly try to make something out of life but i do think that people should be realistic when it comes to "following their dreams". Personal overestimation has been the source of a lot of misery, depression, problems in this world. I my opinion, it is a bit the disease of our day and age.

Just my 2$

regards
marlon

 

[marlon]

Thats not what you where implying in your previous pst. You where implying that the "little" people can't make a difference at all, and they that only serve selfish needs that help them survive.

No,what i said was this : "common" people have a very small chance of actually doing something great. So small a chance that it is negligible. There is no point in pursueing non realistic goals. Please, save yourself the trouble. Also, it is a reality that most people have a lot of difficulties with just "passing through life in a decent fashion". That is what i meant.

Yeah, that was my point.

So then why use it falsly to make a point ?

I know. You fail to understand what the definition of average is. Most people don't have an IQ of 100 even though it is the average IQ.

I never used the term IQ here. That is completely irrelevant to this discussion. There are quite some examples of people "with lower IQ" that achieved great things or invented really cool usefull new concepts/products. Really, IQ is the last thing we should be talking about.

When i mean "average people" i refer to the quality of their work. For example, you can be the best cardiologist out there and doing a great job in the clinic or have a very successful practice. However, this guy just does his job properly but he/she is not inventing new innovative concepts that trigger some revolution in our knowledge or development. Nevertheless, to be come a cardiologist you must study a lot and you cannot be a just a guy with minor capabilities. These people are far from stupid. So, if for this class of high profiled professionals, achieving innovative things is that difficult, how difficult will it be for "the guy around the corner ?"

Math skills? Writing skills? Drawing? Running? Jumping? Swimming? Social skills? Management? Finances? Carpendry? Masonry? Etc.? How many people in the world do you think are just "average" at EVERYTHING.

Very few, i know, but if there ever was somebody who could do them all in an average manner, he would certainly not achieve great things. So this guy would be completely useless. One needs to be exceptionally good in one thing and you must be able to distinguish yourself from others based upon your capabilities. This is very rare.

Chances are your good at something (maybe not the best) that most people aren't good at. Taking this into account, there is no such thing as an average person.

If you state it like that, you are correct but this is not relevant to our discussion. Again, "average" means "just doing your job properly so that everybody (like your boss, clients) is happy with the result". That is average even if you have a high profile like a PhD or if you are a surgeon. Exceptionally means that you created new concepts that "change the world", as a have outlined many times here. THAT is something very few people can achieve and it is most likely that both YOU and ME will never acquire such a superior status.

The reason I'm making a big deal out of this is because I don't like being labled an average joe, because I don't have anything in common with 99% of the people you call average joes, other than the fact that we're not famous.

Again, you totally misinterpreted my words. I just exlpained that you are and will always be a Joe Schmoe because you will not do exceptionally work. Now, be sure that you understand correctly the nature of the term "exceptional work". I have explained it several times in my post here.

regards
marlon

 

[Curious3141]

No,what i said was this : "common" people have a very small chance of actually doing something great. So small a chance that it is negligible. There is no point in pursueing non realistic goals. Please, save yourself the trouble. Also, it is a reality that most people have a lot of difficulties with just "passing through life in a decent fashion". That is what i meant.


So then why use it falsly to make a point ?


I never used the term IQ here. That is completely irrelevant to this discussion. There are quite some examples of people "with lower IQ" that achieved great things or invented really cool usefull new concepts/products. Really, IQ is the last thing we should be talking about.

When i mean "average people" i refer to the quality of their work. For example, you can be the best cardiologist out there and doing a great job in the clinic or have a very successful practice. However, this guy just does his job properly but he/she is not inventing new innovative concepts that trigger some revolution in our knowledge or development. Nevertheless, to be come a cardiologist you must study a lot and you cannot be a just a guy with minor capabilities. These people are far from stupid. So, if for this class of high profiled professionals, achieving innovative things is that difficult, how difficult will it be for "the guy around the corner ?"


Very few, i know, but if there ever was somebody who could do them all in an average manner, he would certainly not achieve great things. So this guy would be completely useless. One needs to be exceptionally good in one thing and you must be able to distinguish yourself from others based upon your capabilities. This is very rare.


If you state it like that, you are correct but this is not relevant to our discussion. Again, "average" means "just doing your job properly so that everybody (like your boss, clients) is happy with the result". That is average even if you have a high profile like a PhD or if you are a surgeon. Exceptionally means that you created new concepts that "change the world", as a have outlined many times here. THAT is something very few people can achieve and it is most likely that both YOU and ME will never acquire such a superior status.


Again, you totally misinterpreted my words. I just exlpained that you are and will always be a Joe Schmoe because you will not do exceptionally work. Now, be sure that you understand correctly the nature of the term "exceptional work". I have explained it several times in my post here.

regards
marlon

I am actually in strong agreement with marlon's sentiments throughout this thread. I am happy he's willing to say it like it is, without sugarcoating it.

OK, here's a simple fact : the average cognitive/intellectual/academic ability (let's put "IQ" aside for the moment) of PF posters is almost definitely significantly greater than that of the random "bloke on the street". We comprise a distribution that has a mean to the right of the general population. As such, I don't think PF posters can be said to be "average" relative to the global population. We are almost certainly brighter than average on this board.

Having said that, I don't think any of us can truly be said to be "exceptional" in ability. As such, our chances of making exceptional advances to humanity are indeed negligible.

I think I get what Marlon is talking about here. Here's a brief list of done accomplishments I would consider exceptional. Marlon, please correct me if I'm way off here

1) Proving Fermat's Last Theorem -- Wiles
2) Formulating Special and General Relativity Theory - Einstein, Lorentz, others
3) Unveiling the double helix of DNA - Watson, Crick, others
4) Formulating the Incompleteness and Undecidability Theorems : Godel

Here are some open questions that I believe it would take an exceptional intellect an exceptional amount of perseverance to crack :

1) Proving the Riemann Hypothesis. Finding a counterexample would also be a feat, but not of the same theoretical magnitude perhaps.
2) Formulating a Theory of Everything that stands theoretical and experimental scrutiny (and makes new predictions, most of which can be verified experimentally)
3) Deciding the NP-P problem

If anyone on this board thinks they have a decent chance of cracking any of those within their lifetimes, then hats off to you. I know I don't have a ghost of a chance with them. I can, perhaps, follow the proofs and theories when they come, and I already consider myself privileged to have the wherewithal to appreciate those genius-level accomplishments of others.

Marlon is not putting anyone down or discouraging anyone, but he's absolutely right about setting realistic goals for ourselves. I'm glad I'm in Microbiology, where there is a good chance I can make a name for myself characterising an unusual phenotype for a known bacterium, or maybe, if the stars align properly, even discover a new bacterium. The intellectual wherewithal to work through even the discovery and characterisation of a new microbe is not immense, just a little tedious and rigorous (verifying the work is important so you don't make a fool of yourself in the eyes of academia). All the methods to do this phenotypically and genotypically are already in place. Or I can dream of inventing a new rapid lab test (based on existing principles, this is just an optimisation/implementation problem) that has the potential to save lives. I consider these realisable dreams, because I believe I have the ability to work through them if the chance presents itself.

Entropy - don't be discouraged. Find out what you're good at, and try to improve the lot of mankind by working to your strengths. Neither of us may be able to make momentous discoveries in the league of Einstein or Newton, but we certainly can make a difference. The important thing is not to waste a life by chasing an unattainable dream. I think that was Marlon's point, and I agree with it.

 

[marlon]

Here's a brief list of done accomplishments I would consider exceptional. Marlon, please correct me if I'm way off here

1) Proving Fermat's Last Theorem -- Wiles
2) Formulating Special and General Relativity Theory - Einstein, Lorentz, others
3) Unveiling the double helix of DNA - Watson, Crick, others
4) Formulating the Incompleteness and Undecidability Theorems : Godel

These are most certainly exceptional accomplishemnts. Great examples with which i totally agree. If one's name is in such a list, you have helped mankind in an above average manner.

Neither of us may be able to make momentous discoveries in the league of Einstein or Newton, but we certainly can make a difference. The important thing is not to waste a life by chasing an unattainable dream. I think that was Marlon's point, and I agree with it.

Indeed, that is exactly my point.

regards
marlon

 

[Astronuc]

Exceptionally means that you created new concepts that "change the world", as a have outlined many times here. THAT is something very few people can achieve and it is most likely that both YOU and ME will never acquire such a superior status.

Don't make such absolute statements!

I just exlpained that you are and will always be a Joe Schmoe because you will not do exceptionally work.

Not so. Put that idea aside.

It is important to have aspirations and plans for the future, but one needs the discipline and training, and the right perspective.

Looking back 25+ years ago, I have accomplished things that I could only imagine or dream about doing, and I still have more opportunities ahead.

 

[Entropy]

No,what i said was this : "common" people have a very small chance of actually doing something great. So small a chance that it is negligible. There is no point in pursueing non realistic goals. Please, save yourself the trouble. Also, it is a reality that most people have a lot of difficulties with just "passing through life in a decent fashion". That is what i meant.

This was the specific statement I was referring too:

OR is the real purpose of life to find a way to find the easiest way to live a life of luxury and excess with minimal regard for anyone else...

hmm...
YES, it's called surviving. The average Jo Schmoe (which most of us are) can, at best, achieve this goal.

Here you imply that "average" people are greedy and selfish. This is what I was arguing about. I'm not arguing against the fact that most people don't have a significant impact on the world.

If you state it like that, you are correct but this is not relevant to our discussion.

You asked how I came to the conclusion that there is no such thing as a average person. I answered.

So then why use it falsly to make a point ?

I didn't.

 

[Entropy]

I never used the term IQ here. That is completely irrelevant to this discussion.

I wasn't linking IQ to success. I using it as a random example to explain the difference between the terms "average" and "most." Maybe I didn't make it clear, but it's the term "average" I don't like people using here. Because although statisticly an average may exist, it doesn't mean most, or any for that matter, are average. Take for example the set 1,3. The average is 2, but none of the numbers in the set is actually 2.

The reason I'm making a big deal out of this is because I don't like being labled an average joe, because I don't have anything in common with 99% of the people you call average joes, other than the fact that we're not famous.

Again, you totally misinterpreted my words. I just exlpained that you are and will always be a Joe Schmoe because you will not do exceptionally work. Now, be sure that you understand correctly the nature of the term "exceptional work". I have explained it several times in my post here.

... *points downwards*

OR is the real purpose of life to find a way to find the easiest way to live a life of luxury and excess with minimal regard for anyone else...

hmm...
YES, it's called surviving. The average Jo Schmoe (which most of us are) can, at best, achieve this goal.

I'm not saying I'm going to accomplish something that will make me one of those exceptional people that change the world. I'm saying people who aren't one of those exceptional few, aren't greedy and selfish.

 

[Kazza_765]

I will certainly try to make something out of life but i do think that people should be realistic when it comes to "following their dreams". Personal overestimation has been the source of a lot of misery, depression, problems in this world. I my opinion, it is a bit the disease of our day and age.

I wish I knew the same people you do, I would have said the opposite. I have met far too many people that never took the opportunity to follow their dreams. I wish more people would take a chance.

When i mean "average people" i refer to the quality of their work. For example, you can be the best cardiologist out there and doing a great job in the clinic or have a very successful practice. However, this guy just does his job properly but he/she is not inventing new innovative concepts that trigger some revolution in our knowledge or development. Nevertheless, to be come a cardiologist you must study a lot and you cannot be a just a guy with minor capabilities. These people are far from stupid. So, if for this class of high profiled professionals, achieving innovative things is that difficult, how difficult will it be for "the guy around the corner ?"

Its funny that you should use that example. My grandmother was a cardioligist, came to this country as a refugee on a boat after Russia invaded Czechoslovakia. All her family killed except my dad (6 yrs old), no money, no recognition of her training. Spent years working in a factory, finally got a job cleaning the floors at a medical facility. After some time, she convinved the owner to let her do her research after hours, unpaid of course. Eventually her qualifications were recognised, and her work eventually led to a treatment for "Blue Babies". The President of the US even visited her lab on a trip to Australia (can't remember which one).

Now yes, she probably did have a higher IQ than average, but after spending 2 years in an Italian refugee camp I'm sure it must have felt like that didn't matter. The point is, she never gave up on her dreams, no matter how far away they were, and how infinitismal the chance of reaching them. Small people can make a difference.

 

[marlon]

I'm not saying I'm going to accomplish something that will make me one of those exceptional people that change the world.

Ok, that was the essence of my point.

I'm saying people who aren't one of those exceptional few, aren't greedy and selfish.

That's true, i agree with that. It seems to me that we understand each other perfectly and each of our opinions are clear.

regards
marlon

 

[marlon]

Small people can make a difference.

When did i ever say that small people cannot make a difference ? There are many examples of people that started off with nothing and achieved great things. It would be very stupid of me not to acknowledge that.

regards
marlon

 

[marlon]

Don't make such absolute statements!

What do you mean by "absolute" and why can't i make such statements ?

Not so. Put that idea aside.

I am sorry but why ?

It is important to have aspirations and plans for the future, but one needs the discipline and training, and the right perspective.

Correct, i can only agree with that but this does not imply that ones work is of above average quality to say the least.


regards
marlon

 

[Gale]

well, even though this thread seems pretty off topic...

My purpose is to learn life's lessons, and then hopefully help other's learn theirs. Eventually, better understand this world we live in.

 

[Astronuc]

Don't make such absolute statements!

What do you mean by "absolute" and why can't i make such statements ?

Not so. Put that idea aside.

I am sorry but why ?

I don't think one should say 'I will never do such and such', because one never knows. One could say, I may never or probably will never, but I never say never.

Seriously, I don't think one should discount what one does or will do. That is my only point.