- #36
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In my work environment, (down sizing, large corp, PC to the max) this is simply not considered.Pengwuino said:
Anyway, she already has a wife and 2 kids
How Can I Stand Up for Myself and Say No to Doing Someone's Homework?
- Thread starter Integral
- Start date
In summary, Daniel refused to help a coworker who asked for help with homework, feeling that it was beyond his abilities. He suggests the other options available to the individual.
Anyway, she already has a wife and 2 kids
- #37
Math Is Hard
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Integral is married. But there is a larger lesson she needs to learn - and that is self-reliance. If Integral does her homework for her he is reinforcing a psychological message that she can just go crying to someone who is truly knowledgeable every time she needs to be bailed out of a jam.Pengwuino said:
What if Integral is not the first person to help her out? If she's submitting her work online, she may have hordes of people doing her homework for her. If you're an IT manager, is this the kind of person you want controlling your networks? Hell, no! When it's 11 p.m. and the network goes down, do you want someone who knows her stuff and can start working on the problem immediately, or do you want someone who says to you, "Um, sorry, I can't have an answer for you until tomorrow morning when my friend Ellen wakes up and can advise me on how to fix the problem."
Sorry, but to foster an attitude and a work ethic like that is just crazy. We all have to work hard and do things we don't feel we need to do. This is part of maturity.
- #38
honestrosewater
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If you're uncomfortable saying no, there are some little things you can do to make it easier. State it as a general principle instead of a personal rejection or challenge: "I can't do people's work for them." instead of "I won't do your work for you". Also, assume innocence. Maybe your mutual friend gave her- or she got- the impression that you would do her work for her (and she wasn't being rude or presumptuous). That would be a good way to approach it; "Maybe you got the wrong impression. I'm glad to help people when I can, but I just don't do other people's work for them." Or some such. Just stick with "I can't" and don't back down. Whatever you do, I hope you're comfortable with it.
- #39
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I just must be a gutless wonder, she stopped by my desk a bit ago. I gave her the sheets, said "I am just not motivated to get these done, here you take them" Earlier I had gone through a couple of pages, so she tore of those, then we discussed another problem she was dealing with.. This is the kind of help I like to give. I explained some tricks about letting the units guide you. Good stuff.
Then, she handed me back the rest of the sheets, I repeated that I did not think I would have time to do them.
She, ... "Well, you have 2 weeks" Walks away
Then, she handed me back the rest of the sheets, I repeated that I did not think I would have time to do them.
She, ... "Well, you have 2 weeks" Walks away
- #40
Math Is Hard
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Oh no! Now you've done it! Integral, this is just like feeding a stray cat! You do it once and you'll never be rid of her. The only way out now is the "elegant weasel". You've got to find two physics tutors immediately and get their phone numbers (or email addresses).
Now, you've got to tell her, "oh, I can't believe the amount of work that was just unloaded on me! I wish I could help you but, I am so overwhelmed." Give her the numbers of the two tutors and say, "Here, maybe they can help you." Get yourself out of this mess!
Now, you've got to tell her, "oh, I can't believe the amount of work that was just unloaded on me! I wish I could help you but, I am so overwhelmed." Give her the numbers of the two tutors and say, "Here, maybe they can help you." Get yourself out of this mess!
- #41
hypnagogue
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ugh. Judging by that reaction, she thinks she has you in the palm of her hand. Don't live up to that!
I suggest giving the papers over to the guy who sent her over to you, so he can give them back to her. That puts you back in control of things, instead of having the papers rotting away in your desk while you wait for her to show up again. It might also be easier for you since it avoids direct confrontation, at least initially. If she shows up again, help her out, but be adamant about not keeping the papers for yourself. If you're up to it, you might want to drop a hint that if she tries pulling that again, then your services are withdrawn completely.
But one way or another, you just have to be assertive here. I disagree with MIH; don't weasel, just put your foot down! Do not let her play you like a fiddle! She has nothing on you except your own inability to be firm thus far.
I suggest giving the papers over to the guy who sent her over to you, so he can give them back to her. That puts you back in control of things, instead of having the papers rotting away in your desk while you wait for her to show up again. It might also be easier for you since it avoids direct confrontation, at least initially. If she shows up again, help her out, but be adamant about not keeping the papers for yourself. If you're up to it, you might want to drop a hint that if she tries pulling that again, then your services are withdrawn completely.
But one way or another, you just have to be assertive here. I disagree with MIH; don't weasel, just put your foot down! Do not let her play you like a fiddle! She has nothing on you except your own inability to be firm thus far.
- #42
Joel
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Don't walk around the hot pot. She's working in your company, call her up and say everything your thinking (don't let her interrupt you, just part of the story may sound bad). End your monologue by asking why she doesn't seem to want your help and offer it to her again sincerely. She can become mad at you, in which case it's her loss (you're the one with the moral high ground), she may give you a REALLY good reason (no, not THAT reason) for doing them, or she will ask you for proper help.
It will take you 5-10mins, which I will assume is a lot less than pondering around it.
It will take you 5-10mins, which I will assume is a lot less than pondering around it.
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- #43
honestrosewater
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Eh, this may sound a bit dramatic, but I saw a show today about how to act in an encounter with a grisley bear. If you and the bear just stumbled across each other while wandering around, you must stand your ground. Don't run away- it makes you seem like prey, and bears can climb trees and run faster than you. Only play dead as a last resort. Pepper spray works well. If the bear seeks you out at night and attacks you, it wants to eat you- fight or die. Oh, and never, NEVER feed them! Heh, I think it applies quite nicely actually.
Disclaimer: At least that's what the ranger people said- I haven't tested these for myself; I live in Florida near the beach, and there aren't many bears around. But you're supposed to run from alligators in zig-zag patterns, shuffle your feet to scare away stingrays, and punch sharks in the gills. Actually, this is better- do all this and she'll think you're crazy and won't bother you anymore.
Edit: Um, make that a grizzly bear. I'm very tired. It would have been funny if I spelled it gristly.
Disclaimer: At least that's what the ranger people said- I haven't tested these for myself; I live in Florida near the beach, and there aren't many bears around. But you're supposed to run from alligators in zig-zag patterns, shuffle your feet to scare away stingrays, and punch sharks in the gills. Actually, this is better- do all this and she'll think you're crazy and won't bother you anymore.
Edit: Um, make that a grizzly bear. I'm very tired. It would have been funny if I spelled it gristly.
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- #44
brewnog
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Don't become the doormat Integral...
- #45
hypatia
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I would put them in a envelope, along with a note explaining why your idea of help is, not to do the work for her. It may be a easier way to stand your ground.
- #46
xJuggleboy
I guess I am going to be the only one on the side of the chick...
School is not about learning. Its about passing. I have had several teachers/professors say that to me and I believe it. They don't care if you cheat. It they caught you on the other hand they would fail you. They assume if you are able to get the work done (by your own hand or not) you have learned something, and can do it again. There are many people who sail threw life learning hardly anything from the courses they take and get "A"s all the way. Its the way of life.
I don't particularly care for cheating or cheaters. But they also have there place in the world and if you feel you can teach her a moral lesson by not doing it then dont. But she will most likely find someone else who can.
Therefor, if you want to be the one "helping" her and reaping whatever reward comes from it, I feel you would be doing nothing wrong.
School is not about learning. Its about passing. I have had several teachers/professors say that to me and I believe it. They don't care if you cheat. It they caught you on the other hand they would fail you. They assume if you are able to get the work done (by your own hand or not) you have learned something, and can do it again. There are many people who sail threw life learning hardly anything from the courses they take and get "A"s all the way. Its the way of life.
I don't particularly care for cheating or cheaters. But they also have there place in the world and if you feel you can teach her a moral lesson by not doing it then dont. But she will most likely find someone else who can.
Therefor, if you want to be the one "helping" her and reaping whatever reward comes from it, I feel you would be doing nothing wrong.
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- #47
BobG
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Actually, I see nothing wrong with what she's doing, either. She may be majoring in something in IT, but she'll wind up in sales and probably do quite well. In that sense, she's learning far more pertinent skills by what she's doing than if he just did the work herself.
Selling 'nothing' isn't that easy to do. It really focuses in on the idea that there's a lot of intangibles in any interaction that are just as sellable as a widget.
However, you can't make a living on the idea that the only thing that matters is the sale. Those high pressure sales where you get money (or something else) from an unhappy customer may make the difference between 'just getting by' and 'doing quite well', but if you don't have a core group that's happy with their transactions you won't even get to the 'just barely getting by' point. And she will certainly be a fool if she goes out into the world relying just on pressure to close the really important make or break sales.
She should learn that, and, if you're unhappy about the transaction, the best help you could give her would be to quit doing her work for her, preferably now instead of waiting to let her know the night before it's due. That way, she can try again on another victim, I mean customer. Better for her to improve her skills now than later.
Selling 'nothing' isn't that easy to do. It really focuses in on the idea that there's a lot of intangibles in any interaction that are just as sellable as a widget.
However, you can't make a living on the idea that the only thing that matters is the sale. Those high pressure sales where you get money (or something else) from an unhappy customer may make the difference between 'just getting by' and 'doing quite well', but if you don't have a core group that's happy with their transactions you won't even get to the 'just barely getting by' point. And she will certainly be a fool if she goes out into the world relying just on pressure to close the really important make or break sales.
She should learn that, and, if you're unhappy about the transaction, the best help you could give her would be to quit doing her work for her, preferably now instead of waiting to let her know the night before it's due. That way, she can try again on another victim, I mean customer. Better for her to improve her skills now than later.
- #48
Smurf
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I knew there was a reason I liked you Bob
- #49
Artman
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You're too nice Integral.
My gosh, she is so lazy she won't sit in the room while someone else does the work?! She is treating you like hired help. So, charge her a two tiered consulting fee. One price for helping her to learn it and another price for doing it yourself. Say $20.00 and hour to help her, $80.00 an hour to do it yourself.
Hey, if your not going to learn how to do it yourself, you need to be willing to pay to have it done. That's a lesson she better learn.
My gosh, she is so lazy she won't sit in the room while someone else does the work?! She is treating you like hired help. So, charge her a two tiered consulting fee. One price for helping her to learn it and another price for doing it yourself. Say $20.00 and hour to help her, $80.00 an hour to do it yourself.
Hey, if your not going to learn how to do it yourself, you need to be willing to pay to have it done. That's a lesson she better learn.
- #50
Math Is Hard
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Oh, how I wish he would! I just don't think he will. People like this woman are so incredibly manipulative - I think she'll find some way to make him cave.hypnagogue said:
I think Hypatia came up with a pretty good compromise.
Back when I was taking calculus, there was a woman in my class, Deb, who was getting ready to apply to med school. She wanted to be an orthopedic surgeon. Deb was super nice to me and always sat right next to me. When exam time came, I figured out why. She did everything but reach over and grab my test to look at the answers. The professor looked the other way since she'd buttered him up pretty good. Deb was a genius at schmoozing and sucking up. She had a very successful career in sales.
A woman I work with knows her, and a couple of weeks ago she mentioned to me in passing that Deb had flunked her MCAT exam. Guess she couldn't figure out a way to cheat her way through that one. I felt relieved that her lack of knowledge finally caught up with her. I don't think I'd want someone who cheated their way through school operating on me.
- #51
hypatia
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Yes! right the note, and add that to the bottom!
- #52
kaos
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since she's unwilling to learn, u got to each her the hard way...
write down some bull or something...
however do the easy part right so she don't suspect nothing.
write down some bull or something...
however do the easy part right so she don't suspect nothing.
- #53
Moonbear
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I really can't understand what motivates people to pay for a class and then not want to do the work for it. I understand when high school students cheat, because they really just don't care and are forced to be there. I don't approve of this, but I understand the motivation to just get out. But I don't understand why someone bothers paying for and taking a class if they aren't interested in learning anything from it.
Integral, stop being a push over! Don't wait for her to come to you again, either walk over yourself and tell her you were trying to be polite in your refusal before, but since she didn't take the hint, and seems to have the notion in her head that you're going to do the work for her, you have to be more blunt about it, that you just aren't going to do her work for her.
If you feel like you can't do that without caving in again, then take hypatia's suggestion, and leave her papers for her in an envelope with a note saying you will not do her homework for her.
You don't need to offer any reasons or explanations, just tell her, "No."
Once you've clearly told her no, if she tries yet again, I really think you're fully justified to simply take those papers and toss them into the recycling bin. Actually, if she tries to hand them to you, I think that's what you should tell her as well, that if she leaves them with you again, you're going to toss them right into the recycling bin.
I have to admit, this is way over the top of anything I've ever known anyone to do. I've known people to copy answers from classmates or more often to swap answers (two students each do half the assignment and then swap), but this is the first I've known of someone actually just handing an assignment over for someone else to do for them. Makes you wonder about her integrity on the job, doesn't it?
Integral, stop being a push over! Don't wait for her to come to you again, either walk over yourself and tell her you were trying to be polite in your refusal before, but since she didn't take the hint, and seems to have the notion in her head that you're going to do the work for her, you have to be more blunt about it, that you just aren't going to do her work for her.
If you feel like you can't do that without caving in again, then take hypatia's suggestion, and leave her papers for her in an envelope with a note saying you will not do her homework for her.
You don't need to offer any reasons or explanations, just tell her, "No."
Once you've clearly told her no, if she tries yet again, I really think you're fully justified to simply take those papers and toss them into the recycling bin. Actually, if she tries to hand them to you, I think that's what you should tell her as well, that if she leaves them with you again, you're going to toss them right into the recycling bin.
I have to admit, this is way over the top of anything I've ever known anyone to do. I've known people to copy answers from classmates or more often to swap answers (two students each do half the assignment and then swap), but this is the first I've known of someone actually just handing an assignment over for someone else to do for them. Makes you wonder about her integrity on the job, doesn't it?
- #54
Huckleberry
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I agree with BobG. This woman will probably have exceptional business skills if she actually had something to sell. This is probably a required course for her and she doesn't believe it is vital to her goals. Unfortunately for you, and for her, she doesn't have much in the way of morals. She will keep pressuring unless it is made VERY clear to her that this behavior will not be tolerated. I'm sure she will then attempt to make you look like the bad guy, spread gossip, make rumors, perhaps sabotage. CYOA.
As she is acting in her own interests I think you should act in yours. What are your interests? It seems you have some strong moral/ethical objections to doing her homework for her and I don't blame you. I'd be outraged!
What I'm not certain of is why you are having difficulty in refusing her. What are you afraid of? Does her opinion of you matter so much, or is it your own opinion of yourself that would change? It's not really her that you are confronting. It is your own fear.
In a way this is an interesting opportunity for you. What choice would give you long term peace with yourself? I really do believe that in the long run you will feel better about yourself if you kindly, yet FIRMLY declare your position on the matter to her as soon as possible. (She will claim she didn't have time to finish her work if you wait much longer, or some such excuse. She will find someone else to do her homework but that is not your responsibility.)Are you trying to take responsibility for her?
Huck
As she is acting in her own interests I think you should act in yours. What are your interests? It seems you have some strong moral/ethical objections to doing her homework for her and I don't blame you. I'd be outraged!
What I'm not certain of is why you are having difficulty in refusing her. What are you afraid of? Does her opinion of you matter so much, or is it your own opinion of yourself that would change? It's not really her that you are confronting. It is your own fear.
In a way this is an interesting opportunity for you. What choice would give you long term peace with yourself? I really do believe that in the long run you will feel better about yourself if you kindly, yet FIRMLY declare your position on the matter to her as soon as possible. (She will claim she didn't have time to finish her work if you wait much longer, or some such excuse. She will find someone else to do her homework but that is not your responsibility.)Are you trying to take responsibility for her?
Huck