Is Cheating a Lucrative Business for College Students?

[rhody]

I thought that was plagiarism. To pass off someone elses work as your own.

EDIT: Then again, I suppose if they referenced the PF member they can get around that. But that may have an effect on their mark if it can be seen not to be theirs, at all.

jared,

I think plagiarism would apply if the person had used the PF's members conclusions in the paper as their own. If they had listed the source as the PF member and given them credit for their conclusion's and adding their own to it, then I guess that would fly. Would be interesting to see what the professor would do in that situation though.

Rhody...

 

[BobG]

Interesting give and take here. Let's take it out of the testing arena and apply it to a midterm research assignment contributing to a large portion of the student's grade.

Hypothetically, let's say a student reads a summary of a substantial amount of research by a PF member, then cherry picks the best ideas summarized in the person's post and is rewarded for his/her efforts with an excellent grade, having done none of the fact checking, organizing, prioritizing on their own.

Is this cheating, to "prey" off the hard work of another, or is it creative "research mining" ?

Rhody...

Depends on whether you're being loose with terminology and really mean a midterm report vs a research assignment.

For a report, a student is almost always summarizing the research or work of others, ranging from summarizing a particular person's work all the way to comparing the research of several people in order to draw conclusions that may not have been obvious to the individual researchers.

For a research assignment, the student should be doing their own research, not reporting on the research of others.

If you mean the latter, I would expect quite a few to misinterpret what you mean, since it's a subtle difference many miss, especially since finding and reading the research of others is considered research for a report.

But I think the example you give would be a report comparing the research of others - except the student in this case didn't actually do the comparing. He merely reported the results of someone else's report. It might not be plagiarism, per se, but I wouldn't think it would yield a particularly high grade, since the student didn't meet the objectives of the assignment - i.e. learn how to analyze and compare research and then synthesize them into a completely new idea. That would be an important skill to have when managing and planning an engineering project, for example.

It really depends what level class the assignment is for and what you expect out of the students (in other words, in high school or lower level college classes, the objective might be just to expose students to how other people analyze and compare research).

 

[DanP]

The failures here are the students and modern society. IMO those students should be busted.

Sure, if you can catch the ones who cheated and bring proof, punish them :P If not, that's it, nobody gives you the right to force all your students to retake an exam and take an ethics class. Remember: Innocent until caught :P And blame for cheating can't be assigned collectively: you need to single out the ones who did it and bring proof.

I do not want to live in a caged society where people will cheat unless prevented from doing so by incredibly intrusive preventive measures. I want to live in a free society. That requires that people for the most part will not cheat. Instilling a strong moral compass helps in that regard. So does fear of punishment for those who lack a moral compass.

You live in today's society. Maybe there ain't perfect, but is very little you can do about it.
Some humans will always cheat.

"All people cheat." No, they don't. Some people are still quite honest by their nature and upbringing.

Sure, you can't say that 100% of all humans cheat. However, during my life I seen that huge percentages of humans I came in contact with will cheat in one way or another if given the opportunity during their lives. Many times in what they believe to be harmless ways.

 

[lisab]

Sure, if you can catch the ones who cheated and bring proof, punish them :P If not, that's it, nobody gives you the right to force all your students to retake an exam and take an ethics class. Remember: Innocent until caught :P And blame for cheating can't be assigned collectively: you need to single out the ones who did it and bring proof.

I think you're wrong here. From my experience, professors have tremendous leeway in how they run the class.

 

[D H]

I would assume that tests formed from a test bank are well-calibrated. This brand-spankin' new test is uncalibrated. Suppose only the cheaters retake the test. Lacking a calibration of the test, how can the instructor map test scores to grades? Forcing the non-cheaters to also retake the test provides the needed calibration -- and has the side benefit of creating a good deal of animosity on the side of the non-cheaters toward the cheaters.

 

[rhody]

Depends on whether you're being loose with terminology and really mean a midterm report vs a research assignment.

For a report, a student is almost always summarizing the research or work of others, ranging from summarizing a particular person's work all the way to comparing the research of several people in order to draw conclusions that may not have been obvious to the individual researchers.

For a research assignment, the student should be doing their own research, not reporting on the research of others.

If you mean the latter, I would expect quite a few to misinterpret what you mean, since it's a subtle difference many miss, especially since finding and reading the research of others is considered research for a report.

But I think the example you give would be a report comparing the research of others - except the student in this case didn't actually do the comparing. He merely reported the results of someone else's report. It might not be plagiarism, per se, but I wouldn't think it would yield a particularly high grade, since the student didn't meet the objectives of the assignment - i.e. learn how to analyze and compare research and then synthesize them into a completely new idea. That would be an important skill to have when managing and planning an engineering project, for example.

It really depends what level class the assignment is for and what you expect out of the students (in other words, in high school or lower level college classes, the objective might be just to expose students to how other people analyze and compare research).

Bob,

Lets say research assignment, back to my original question then:

Is this cheating, to "prey" off the hard work of another, or is it creative "research mining" ?

Is it plagiarism even if credit is given by the student to the source, what would the professor's options be given this circumstance ?

Rhody...

 

[DanP]

I think you're wrong here. From my experience, professors have tremendous leeway in how they run the class.

They have. Now this guys wants to abuse this power. Someone should stop him. Its his and his staff failure he can't identify the cheaters. I would be very pissed off on this man, should he force those antics on me moths before graduation. Prove that I cheated. If you are unable, leave me and my colleagues alone.

 

[Pengwuino]

Sure, if you can catch the ones who cheated and bring proof, punish them :P If not, that's it, nobody gives you the right to force all your students to retake an exam and take an ethics class. Remember: Innocent until caught :P And blame for cheating can't be assigned collectively: you need to single out the ones who did it and bring proof.

As lisa said, professors can do whatever they want if it's not forbidden by their syllabus. There are no "rights" against having to take an exam twice. It's like the idea that you can't be forced to take 3 or more finals or exams on the same day. That is "widely believed" at my university but the fact of the matter is that no such rule exists; students just make up "rights" for themselves when it feels right. I've even heard professors telling students that they won't reschedule the exam for them when they were in that situation (though one of the others did so it was fine in the end).

 

[Pengwuino]

Is it plagiarism even if credit is given by the student to the source, what would the professor's options be given this circumstance ?

If someone is given credit, I don't feel that it's plagiarism. However, if a student just copies, pastes, and cites large amounts of someone elses work, then it's just a poorly done assignment worthy of a bad grade.

 

[DanP]

As lisa said, professors can do whatever they want if it's not forbidden by their syllabus. .

Forcing someone to take an ethic class ? Is that in the syllabus of a phsysics major for example ? How do you justify imposing an ethic class on me months before graduation ?Hiding your incompetence with forcing hundreds of ppl to retake and exam ? Again, fail. Someone should stop this man. There is no reason to retake the exam. I took it once and I was graded. Sorry.

 

[Gokul43201]

They have. Now this guys wants to abuse this power. Someone should stop him. Its his and his staff failure he can't identify the cheaters. I would be very pissed off on this man, should he force those antics on me moths before graduation. Prove that I cheated. If you are unable, leave me and my colleagues alone.

The university/department rules will determine if the teacher is abusing his powers. Given that this hasn't come up, and that he isn't being reprimanded or fired for a breach of rules, it seems likely that he is entirely within the guidelines to make the class retake the test.

If you don't like the rules, take your colleagues with you and leave the school.

 

[mathwonk]

after a lifetime of trying to stop cheating, i began to just help people on tests by answering questions and giving hints. they had no reason to look on their friends paper, since i was even a better source of help, and if anyone looked puzzled i asked them if they needed a hint.

if a hint seemed useful to many people, i would write the hint on the board for everyone. grades didn't change much, and i treated it as learning and teaching experience.

 

[JaredJames]

My maths lecturer had a good view (at least I believe).

He pointed out (quite rightly) that in life you aren't expected to remember everything. You will have reference materials available to you.

So all of his exams had reference materials provided by him.

 

[Pengwuino]

Forcing someone to take an ethic class ? Is that in the syllabus of a phsysics major for example ? How do you justify imposing an ethic class on me months before graduation ?


Hiding your incompetence with forcing hundreds of ppl to retake and exam ? Again, fail. Someone should stop this man. There is no reason to retake the exam. I took it once and I was graded. Sorry.

You do realize he's actually giving these people a chance to not be EXPELLED? He could have just said "ok, you cheated, you've all been reported, have fun working at mcdonalds for the rest of your life".

Yes, someone should stop this man from not letting more liars and cheaters out into the business world. I suppose you enjoy when people lie and cheat you right?

 

[DanP]

The university/department rules will determine if the teacher is abusing his powers. Given that this hasn't come up, and that he isn't being reprimanded or fired for a breach of rules, it seems likely that he is entirely within the guidelines to make the class retake the test.Listen, IMO the professor is nothing by a cheat himself. Individuals who will punish everyone because their own incompetence allow cheaters to exist..He should quit

If events got you, don't whine. Learn for the next year. :P

If you don't like the rules, take your colleagues with you and leave the school.

I sincerely hope that every college student in future will have easy access to lawyers to prevent any abuse whatsoever from the organization they are paying for tuition.

It's nothing but a commercial contract ultimately. You better make sure the university
can live up it;s part of the bargain. And in this case, it seems that it didnt. Large scale cheating is a indication of a weak process and weak professors.

Maybe what those students should do is to make this case publicly all over the internet, hitting hard into the school's image.

 

[DanP]

You do realize he's actually giving these people a chance to not be EXPELLED? He could have just said "ok, you cheated, you've all been reported, have fun working at mcdonalds for the rest of your life".

Yes, someone should stop this man from not letting more liars and cheaters out into the business world. I suppose you enjoy when people lie and cheat you right?

Who cares what he does ? I don't. If I was proven a cheater, AND YOU CAUGHT ME, expel me. If not, take a chill pill. YOu have no right to harass me before graduation.

 

[Pengwuino]

Who cares what he does ? I don't. If I was proven a cheater, AND YOU CAUGHT ME, expel me. If not, take a chill pill. YOu have no right to harass me before graduation.

This thinking befuddles me. Are you telling me that if you were on the verge of graduating after 4+ years and in the final hours, you're caught cheating and are given a chance not to be expelled, you'd say "No! this is harassment. Expel me. I don't want to graduate if I have to take a 4 hour seminar".

Yah, right. I think you're just trolling.

 

[DanP]

This thinking befuddles me. Are you telling me that if you were on the verge of graduating after 4+ years and in the final hours, you're caught cheating and are given a chance not to be expelled, you'd say "No! this is harassment. Expel me. I don't want to graduate if I have to take a 4 hour seminar".

No sorry. Heuristics are not proof that a individual cheated. You either caught me either not.

Second,you don't force all your class, cheaters and not cheaters, to re-take an exam. Deal with the proven cheaters as you see fit. I don't care.

Don't harass the students which where not proven guilty with exams re-takes and ethics courses.

Yah, right. I think you're just trolling.

You are just defensive because you teach. You must learn to accept different opinions by yours,even if they are strong and non standard, without yelling trolling.

 

[xxChrisxx]

I'd admit i'd be mighty pissed off if I'm told I have to redo something if I've done nothing wrong (especially if I'd got a good score). Also I'd have to agree that unless there was conclusive proof, you can't really accuse someone of cheating, saying statistically you had an odd score isn't really good enough. As it's perfectly possible someone normal just fluked it, being possible brings in reasonable doubt.

If I were in the position of a caught cheater, you clearly would just do the seminar. It's a get out of jail free card. Fankly you'd be a moron not to do it.

Not that I would ever cheat on a test.

 

[Pengwuino]

You are just defensive because you teach. You must learn to accept different opinions by yours,even if they are strong and non standard, without yelling trolling.

I'm a student as well. Your ideas are simply ridiculous and I know even you don't believe in them unless you have a horribly misunderstood idea of what being a student is suppose to be about. If you feel being a student is about cheating the system for 4 years, then... well, you're not alone unfortunately.

The professor is not an idiot, I'm sure (and if you've watched his lecture and done some research on it, you'd think this as well) his information goes beyond "I saw people did better, thus student x, student y, and student z cheated". Everything was electronic. If you have been teaching for a while, you know not to tell people how you know exactly who cheated and who didn't upfront.

 

[Gokul43201]

YOu have no right to harass me before graduation.

How do you know what rights the teacher does or doesn't have? Have you read the regulations for the school in question?

 

[DanP]

I'm a student as well. Your ideas are simply ridiculous and I know even you don't believe in them unless you have a horribly misunderstood idea of what being a student is suppose to be about. If you feel being a student is about cheating the system for 4 years, then... well, you're not alone unfortunately.

No, your position is submissive and ridiculous. My position simply says that you cannot punish innocent beings. That you need to identify the guilty , and apply sanctions only to the guilty parties.

What part of this you find ridiculous ? Perhaps you find ridiculous the legal system as well, and the fact that we only punish the ones who we find guilty and we don't put ppl in jail based on statistics or hunches ?

The professor is not an idiot, I'm sure (and if you've watched his lecture and done some research on it, you'd think this as well) his information goes beyond "I saw people did better, thus student x, student y, and student z cheated". Everything was electronic. If you have been teaching for a while, you know not to tell people how you know exactly who cheated and who didn't upfront.

If he can't name the ones who cheated, he has nothing. If you don't want to say who did cheated and who didn't cheated upfront you have a problem. A big problem. You cover cheaters. YOu are a cheater yourself automatically. You hit in the best interests of fair students by covering the cheaters. By forcing punishment on all, innocent or not, to retake the test, you hit in innocents. You automatically favored cheaters. Unacceptable for a prof.

 

[Pengwuino]

If he can't name the ones who cheated, he has nothing. If you don't want to say who did cheated and who didn't cheated upfront you have a problem. A big problem. You cover cheaters. YOu are a cheater yourself automatically. You hit in the best interests of fair students by covering the cheaters. By forcing punishment on all, innocent or not, to retake

He probably knows exactly who cheated and is giving them probably the biggest break in their lives by allowing them to retake it. It's unfortunate for the students around them, who probably mainly knew people were cheating, that their fellow students have put them in such a bad situation. Welcome to the real world. Your average student probably has had a ton of courses where their grades were curved because the rest of the class did so poorly. For one time in their college career, something negative will happen because of the rest of the class. They have to sit through 1 more exam. Big deal. Call in the lawyers.

 

[D H]

Slight aside: The business education model must be drastically different than that used in math, science, and technology given that (a) 600 people were in the class, (b) the class was for seniors, and (c) the test was multiple guess. In our world those huge classes are for lower level undergrads and tests are (or were) essay questions of the derive this, compute that sort.

 

[DanP]

He probably knows exactly who cheated and is giving them probably the biggest break in their lives by allowing them to retake it. It's unfortunate for the students around them, who probably mainly knew people were cheating, that their fellow students have put them in such a bad situation. Welcome to the real world. Your average student probably has had a ton of courses where their grades were curved because the rest of the class did so poorly. For one time in their college career, something negative will happen because of the rest of the class. They have to sit through 1 more exam. Big deal. Call in the lawyers.

The professor is a cheater then. He covers cheaters and gives them unfair advantages and willingly hits into decent honest and rule following students.

What this professor teaches is that cheating pays.That he will step into cover those cheaters. And that if you where fair, you will be punished at his whim , having to retake exams.

It is the professor himself who should sit in a ethics class. . It's not a case for lawyers, what the decent students should do is make the professor and his antics tones of coverage on internet media.

 

[NeoDevin]

He's not only taking into account relative marks in determining who cheated and who succeeded honestly. From what I've read, they're also finding out who purchased/accessed the answers.

From the marks statistics, he can make a list, and be confident that every cheater is on the list. He can't be confident that every person on the list is a cheater.
From the information about who accessed the answers, he can make a separate list, and be confident that every person on the list is a cheater, but not that every cheater is on the list.

He can only submit the second list for punishment, as they are the only people that can be proven to have cheated. As some of the cheaters will certainly be overlooked, the fairest solution for the non-cheaters is to force everyone to retake the test. As far as marks in the course go, it is to the benefit of the non-cheaters that everyone in the class retake the exam.

 

[stevenb]

It is the professor himself who should sit in a ethics class.

I disagree.

You may not agree with the professor's choice and I read your points above and understand your point of view, but, there is nothing unethical in his actions. Real life situations don't always offer a clear ethical path. Each path has its own ethical issues, and a person has to weigh many factors and make a personal choice.

The professor is offering a type of forgiveness and a fair shake to the cheaters. He is offering them a chance to learn from their mistake and not suffer permanently for a poor choice they made. He is allowing them to get a grade that measures their actual knowledge. He is possibly saving the parents of the cheaters from a total loss of the investment they made in their kids education. (assuming cheating could be conclusively proved, which is decided by others and is out of his hands, by the way)

The teacher apparently feels he has no choice but to force all to retake the exam. He may have a good idea who cheated and who didn't, but he can't be sure. Ethically, he can't allow grades that are certainly corrupted by cheating to be counted. By forcing a reexam, he can be sure that all get a fair grade. Yes, the noncheaters are inconvenienced, but that's the fault of the cheaters. It's not unethical to inconvenience someone. It can be unfair, but may be unavoidable in some cases. Personally, if I did not cheat, I would rather retake the exam, than let the cheaters keep their good grades. The additional exam also allows further discrimination of the cheaters from the noncheaters. (statistically at least) Postmortem analysis is important and even ethical.

There is nothing unethical in the professors behavior. He is a human being in a no-win situation making a decision that he feels is the most fair and compassionate to all involved.

I could just as easily say that your choice of action is unethical, but I wouldn't do that because it would be unfair since you are just putting different weights to the ethical concerns and making your own opinion about what is the most ethical decision to make.

 

[DanP]

The professor is offering a type of forgiveness and a fair shake to the cheaters. He is offering them a chance to learn from their mistake and not suffer permanently for a poor choice they made. He

Dont do-it at the expense of fair students by forcing all to re-take the exam. This is clearly a unethical choice. It is simply wrong to punish the innocent and at the same time be lenient to
the real cheaters, giving them a chance.


He and the school ****ed it up badly IMO. Their process is very badly flawed if they get such high percentages of cheaters.

 

[disregardthat]

What would count as definitive proof of cheating? What basis of accusation is needed before the professor can expel someone? Surely a statistically suspicious result on a multiple choice test could not be sufficient.

I would rather have 100 cheaters free of accusation than one honest student expelled and I hope most would feel the same.

I think the professor is right in making all retake the exam. First of all, the cheaters cannot be graded on this test, and second of all the honest students would have an unfair result relative to the global outcome. Statistically you'd get the same result on the next test. DanP; making students retaking the test isn't punishment, being expelled is punishment. The professor has clear and objective reasons for making all retake the test.

 

[stevenb]

Dont do-it at the expense of fair students by forcing all to re-take the exam. This is clearly a unethical choice. It is simply wrong to punish the innocent and at the same time be lenient to
the real cheaters, giving them a chance. He and the school ****ed it up badly IMO. Their process is very badly flawed if they get such high percentages of cheaters.

How is letting the scores stand fair to the noncheating students? It's harmful to them to have lower scores relative to the average. He's not punishing the innocent. He is trying to somehow get back to a level playing field as best as possible. Your statement that forcing a retake is unethical is unfounded. It's unfair to the students who didn't cheat, but it's also unfair to let the scores stand. This is a no-win situation. Your solution is just as unfair, but again I wouldn't call you unethical if you decided that was best. However, if I were an noncheating student, I'd be pissed off at you for sure. You seem to be saying that taking a test is akin to torture or some other horror. I'd retake a test any time if I knew that 1/3 of the class had the answers prior to the test the first time. Even if I do slightly worse, I'm sure to do much better relative to the class.

I agree that this issue of showing lenience is potentially unfair, but forgiveness is not unethical. Perhaps he has no right to forgive them on behalf of the noncheating students, but the complication is that he can't prove conclusively who cheated, so maybe it's better to just identify them by letting them confess. Again, your accusation of unethical behavior is unfounded.

 

[Grep]

Ethically, he can't allow grades that are certainly corrupted by cheating to be counted. By forcing a reexam, he can be sure that all get a fair grade. Yes, the noncheaters are inconvenienced, but that's the fault of the cheaters. It's not unethical to inconvenience someone. It can be unfair, but may be unavoidable in some cases. Personally, if I did not cheat, I would rather retake the exam, than let the cheaters keep their good grades.

I do understand the point that the innocent shouldn't have to pay for other people's dishonesty, as I'm pretty sure you do too. I know I'd feel that way at first. I always really hate it when I'm treated by someone else as if I'm dishonest by default, since I know I'm pretty much honest to a fault (but not to stupidity... For example, I know that "Do I look fat in these jeans?" is a TRAP!) - and don't get me wrong, I'm far from perfect over here.

But I still agree with you on your points. I think if I was one of the innocent students, I'd be angry at first, but then I'd realize that it's probably the only fair way to handle it. And that it's the cheaters that put everyone in this situation in the first place.

I'd also realize that I get a chance to get an even better score since I got a practice run. I should have an idea in which areas I was weak, and get a chance to brush up. Either way I should be able to better my score, I figure. Though if the new test is purposefully harder than the first, that would be maybe a bit unfair. Hopefully it's roughly equal in difficulty.

On the other hand, if I was one of the cheating students, I'd hope that I would learn a lesson from this. That what's important is not if you cheat or not, but whether you got caught. KIDDING!

 

[Gokul43201]

It is simply wrong to punish the innocent ...

And letting the grades of the non-cheaters be unfairly pushed down by the high scoring cheaters is a better outcome for the innocent?

and at the same time be lenient to the real cheaters, giving them a chance.

Yet you propose doing nothing. Is that not more lenient than making them retake the test?

 

[lisab]

And letting the grades of the non-cheaters be unfairly pushed down by the high scoring cheaters is a better outcome for the innocent?

Exactly! Remember, a lot of classes - especially science and math - are graded on a curve.

The cheaters are screwing the honest students out of their hard-earned grades.

 

[mugaliens]

Florida college professor gives cheating business students an ultimatum - confess, retake the test and attend an ethics class, or don't graduate.

Hooray!

Exactly! Remember, a lot of classes - especially science and math - are graded on a curve.

The cheaters are screwing the honest students out of their hard-earned grades.

Aha! I knew there was a reason I...

 

[Proton Soup]

original link is dead, but from the discussion, it sounds like we've got ourselves a lazy teacher. disciplinary action is being wielded in the wrong direction.