Is foul language the New Normal ?

[Andy]

I haven't worked AS a mechanic but i used to work in a garage on saturdays helping out with repairs and services on cars, this garage was right next door to a scrap yard and i did a lot of work with them as well and i found that out of the 3 mechanics that worked in the garage 2 of them would swear quite often (never in the presence of a custoner) and they would definately swear whenever they hurt themselves, and as for the 4-5 people that worked in the scrap yard they never stopped swearing, so for me this would be the majority of people. I have never worked with carpenters but my Craft design and technology teacher at school did swear when he hurt himelf but only in the presence of his better students who had stayed behind after school to work on their projects. I will soon be working as a Mercedes mechanic starting my 4 year aprenticeship programme next week, so in a few weeks/months time i will be able to tell you just what kinda language they use when working, although i expect it to be very good with them being mercedes and specialising in luxury cars.

 

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

MOI
It was another thread I had started in Philosophy, "Who/What controls your mind?"...if I can find it I'll link it.

Must a been PF 2.0 caaaaause, "I no keena find it, now'heres!"

Sorry!

In several places that I have worked, 'foul' language is simply not tolerated. Would you buy something from someone, a salesperson in a store, who told you it was the "F'n" best?

 

[zoobyshoe]

It seems to be very well toler-
ated in all male work places, of
the kind andy describes. I worked
in two machine shops where the
supervisors were the worst of all.

In two other machine shops the
supervisors frowned on it and
reated to it such that people
were discouraged from using it
in front of them, at least.

The more mixing of sexes there is
in a workplace the more of an
official offence it becomes. And
as you mentioned, I can't think
of any salesperson-customer
situation where it would be tol-
erated.

My main objection to it in this
forum is that in resorting to it
all communication breaks down.
I think everyone comes here to
learn and share information.
Therefore cultivate those states
of mind in which you become more
articulate and avoid those in
which you become less.

 

[Andy]

In several places that I have worked, 'foul' language is simply not tolerated. Would you buy something from someone, a salesperson in a store, who told you it was the "F'n" best?

it would'nt put me off buying something from him because i don't perticuarly frown apon bad language like that, but i can understand why people would be put of by that use of language, this is why as i said that the mechanics never swore in front of a customer, and i would have most probably been told to hit the road for doing that myself.

My main objection to it in this
forum is that in resorting to it
all communication breaks down.
I think everyone comes here to
learn and share information.
Therefore cultivate those states
of mind in which you become more
articulate and avoid those in
which you become less.

For example i suppose this is a case of that,

"You full on ****ing **** wit, if you had an ounce of common sense you be be ****ing dangerous!" i don't agree with that kinda of post(although i probably have done that myself in the past) but isn't that when you get smarter than the other person and make them look stupid by replying with smarter posts.

 

[zoobyshoe]

That's what ends up happening
but when it does it's an unsatis-
fing substitute for what could
have been a good exchange of ideas.

Sometimes people want to make the
other look stupid because they've
had their feelings hurt and want
revenge. Other times it's an at-
tempt to get their attention when
they seem to be going overboard.
Speaking for myself, of course.

 

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Originally posted by Andy
(SNIP) "You full on ****ing **** wit, if you had an ounce of common sense you be be ****ing dangerous!" i don't agree with that kinda of post(although i probably have done that myself in the past) but isn't that when you get smarter than the other person and make them look stupid by replying with smarter posts.

Problem is that, that kind of language, does NOT make you the 'smarter poster', but simply the rude one.

As zoobyshoe says, it is not helping to foster "good communications", hence learning.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Mr. Robin Parsons,

My understanding of what Andy
meant was different than yours.
I took him to be saying that
once person A resorts to profani-
ty, person B is provided with the opportunity of making person A
feel stupid by adopting a more cultivated, self controlled stance.

That is what I understood him to
be saying, but he will have to
confirm or deny it.

-Zoob

 

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Originally posted by zoobyshoe
Mr. Robin Parsons,
My understanding of what Andy
meant was different than yours.
I took him to be saying that
once person A resorts to profani-
ty, person B is provided with the opportunity of making person A
feel stupid by adopting a more cultivated, self controlled stance.
That is what I understood him to
be saying, but he will have to
confirm or deny it.
-Zoob

You could be absolutely correct, then again, it is Andy sooooo..

 

[Andy]

I feel a lot of hostility coming from you robin, and yes it was meant as zoob thought.

 

[zoobyshoe]

That's a relief. I thought I had
understood what you were pointing
out, but sometimes I read things
too quickly and misinterpret them.

Anyay, congratulations on your
Mercedes apprenticship. I take it
you're still pretty young in years?

-Zoob

 

[Zantra]

do you get a free mercedes with your apprenticeship?

Can I borrow it?

 

[zoobyshoe]

Hey! Don't try to highjack my
idea of sucking up to him so I
can borrow his Mercedes! Find
your own Mercedes mechanic!

 

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Originally posted by Andy
I feel a lot of hostility coming from you (Mr.) (R)obin, (Parsons) and yes it was meant as zoob thought.

And tell us all Andy, just what it is/was, that I have written, that generates this sensation of hostility, that you seem to find within yourself?

PS As you once commented upon my for not spelling someones name properly, do you think you could address me properly, without this false informality, cause, quite clearly, you don't know me.

PS To the others, you should wait until he finishes the courses, four years, before you "Book Him" cause, well, lots'a reasons! (Do whatever you want!)

 

[zoobyshoe]

Originally posted by Mr. Robin Parsons
And tell us all Andy, just what it is/was, that I have written, that generates this sensation of hostility, that you seem to find within yourself?

Mr. Robin Parsons:

My understanding of what Andy
meant was different than yours.
I understood him to be saying
he perceived hostility in you.
I did not understand him to be
reporting that he, himself, was
experiencing hostility.

That is what I understood him
to be saying.

With all due respect,

-Zoob

 

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Originally posted by zoobyshoe

Originally posted by Mr. Robin Parsons
And tell us all Andy, just what it is/was, that I have written, that generates this sensation of hostility, that you seem to find within yourself?

Mr. Robin Parsons:

My understanding of what Andy
meant was different than yours.
I understood him to be saying
he perceived hostility in you.
I did not understand him to be
reporting that he, himself, was
experiencing hostility.

That is what I understood him
to be saying.

With all due respect,

-Zoob

Yes, the question is posed to andy, BECAUSE

Originally posted by Andy
(SNIP) I feel a lot of hostility coming from you (Mr.) Robin, (Parsons) (SNoP)

Because the hostility Adny feels is being generated within him, it is NOT coming from me as he would like you all to believe, it is arising within him as a result of what he "wishes to believe"

Andy if you cannot address me by my proper name, please, stop addressing me completely!

Zoobyshoe, please let Andy respond for himself, thanks! (otherwise any sense of communication, or the lack thereof, will not be resolved between him and I)

 

[Andy]

Yes i am still young in the grand scheme of things 17 soon to be 18, and i won't get a mercedes for about another 17 years because of the insurance policy that mercedes have, as you can imagine it is very expensive to get insured on on a mercedes.

And to whom it may concern, i feel hostility from your posts because of the bad vibes that i receive from them, your posts give my good karma a bad feeling about it.

PS i can't remember moaning at you for not addressing someone by there proper name, show me thread to proove me wrong, but i really can't remember saying that.

 

[Dagenais]

So "foul mouthed" language, is it really as prevalent as some people would like us all to think? Or is it just a "social misnomer" inasmuch as some people do not realize that, outside of their circle of friends, things, like this kind of language, are NOT the norm.

Foul language is a way to express pain, suffering and anger through words. Nothing more.

I would rather one curse than result his anger through violence.

Words don't hurt as much as violence, no matter what Psychologists say. Those who are "internally damaged" by insults are just weak to begin with. Violence does a lot more than harm.

Many great books, wouldn't be as great without the cursing to show the anger of the characters. Michael Crichton has some cursing in his books.

The same with movies. Anyone seen Phone Booth? Quite a bit of cursing there which portrays the characters feelings to us.

I go to public school, soon probably private school so I encounter lots of cursing.

I encounter cursing on the Golf course and at home.

My father, who is a boss at a formal big-business office (where you would think no cursing occurs), occurs. No...they don't fire you, I doubt they would say anything at all.

Cursing happens in University as well.

The only place I would think that you would get consequences for it would be in...church?

vast majority would at least say "god dammit

No, the majority would say a 4 letter word. If one was shot in the leg or arm, they would say much more than "god damnit!". If they were still conscious of course.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Andy,
I'm surprised at how young you
are. I don't know why but I
pictured early twenties. Anyway
I do think it's a great thing
about the Mercedes apprenticeship.
I wasted many years, financially
speaking, in unskilled jobs.

I actually wouldn't want to
own a Mercedes unless I were so
rich the repairs and insurance
were a drop in the bucket. Some
people put their last penny into
their cars.

The interesting thing is that
one of the guys who lives here
in my building just bought a 20
year old Mercedes very, very
cheaply and it is in remarkably
good shape. It runs fairly well
and all it seems to need is a
new catalytic converter to make
it street legal. That is not an
expensive repair.

So, I may be able to borrow his
but, of course, Zantra is not
invited.

-Zoob

 

[zoobyshoe]

Kenny,

I don't think foul language is
a substitute for violence. I think
you're more likely to find foul
language and violence together
in an individual, and proper
language and non-violence togeth-
er.

There are always exceptions, but
usually people who are physically
violent also curse. It is also
possible to be verbally abusive
without using a single curse word.

Having said all that I have to
agree that being physically abused
is worse than being sworn at.

-Zoob

 

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Originally posted by kenikov
Foul language is a way to express pain, suffering and anger through words. Nothing more.

I would agree with you, but I would remove one word, "language is a way to express pain, suffering and anger through words. Nothing more."

Foul language is/has been, a part of the societies that I have experienced as well, but I do sort of look to see if people control themselves at all, how much they actually can control themselves, actually.

Self discipline of the mind is certainly an important aspect of intellectual ability, and thus, pertinent to the aquisition of knowledge through both pathmanners, linguistic, and experiancial.
(And the combination of the two)

Originally posted by zoobyshoe
Having said all that I have to agree that being physically abused is worse than being sworn at.

That, well stated, needs clarity inasmuch as it is nessecary to remember that intellectual tortures still have effects upon humans, cursing at a person has potential(s), (But as zoobyshoe said...) but there is still the realm of furthered possibilities that lead to 'clear forms' of mental/psychological abuse, and to the potential degree of it being torture. (too far for most of us?)

Thankfully, clearly, foul language alone doesn't usually measure "to that degree" in anyone, other then the "perfectly innocent", AKA children.

 

[Andy]

I'm surprised at how young you
are. I don't know why but I
pictured early twenties. Anyway
I do think it's a great thing
about the Mercedes apprenticeship.
I wasted many years, financially
speaking, in unskilled jobs.

Thanks a lot zooby, i am really chuffed to get this job, about 3 weeks ago i didnt have a clue where i was going to be workin or what direction my life was going in but now it would appear that if all goes well then i could be sorted for life.

Origionally posted by kenny
Words don't hurt as much as violence, no matter what Psychologists say. Those who are "internally damaged" by insults are just weak to begin with. Violence does a lot more than harm.

I disagree with this in general, a lot of the time you will hear about young people commiting suicide because of mental abuse from other youths, where as severe physical violence is very rare for it to happen reguarly to the same person normally it is just because someone has got into a fight in a bar soemwhere and ended up in hospital but very rarely do they suffer much more abuse than that, whereas mental abuse tends to happen over a longer period and causes much mroe pain.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Andy,

Actually, there is a terrible
problem with family members
physically abusing other family
members over the course of many
years. Husbands beat their wives
up, fathers beat their children.
Sometimes mothers beat their
children.
The kind of scuffle in a bar you
mention isn't where the serious
problem lies.Off the topic: "Chuffed"? We don't
have that expression over here.
I get an idea of what it means
from the context but tell me.

-zoob

 

[Andy]

ah chuffed= isn't slang, not to my knowledge anyway, but it is a word that youths use in Britain it isn't used that much, almost never used by older people.

I didnt think about the abuse suffered by people over a long term like that, i was just making the point that mental abuse is quite often the reason for many suicides by youths. Basically we a saying that abuse of any kind is very serious and should never be used.

 

[Dagenais]

I disagree with this in general, a lot of the time you will hear about young people commiting suicide because of mental abuse from other youths, where as severe physical violence is very rare for it to happen reguarly to the same person normally it is just because someone has got into a fight in a bar soemwhere and ended up in hospital but very rarely do they suffer much more abuse than that, whereas mental abuse tends to happen over a longer period and causes much mroe pain.

No. Being sworn at is not as bad as being beaten. It is logic.

Who here would want to get stabbed and shot over being called an idiot?

The people who go through suicide usually had mental problems before, or much more than just insults thrown at them. Any Psychiastrist would vouch for this.

This is also true in sports. Insults in professional sports like the NBA happen every second on the court, but when a fight breaks out you are immediatly suspended. Why? Because a fight is more serious and worse.






I'm sure everyone here would take the latter, if they told the truth.

I also would not want to own a Mercedes, they seem kind of for old(er) people.

I still haven't gotten my first car yet, but hopefully I can convice my dad into getting me a BMW.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Andy,

I agree with your concluding state
ment about abuse.

You're right. I found chuffed in
the dictionary. I'd never heard
the word before.

-zoob

 

[Andy]

No. Being sworn at is not as bad as being beaten. It is logic.

Who here would want to get stabbed and shot over being called an idiot?{/QUOTE]

I have been punched by friends before on many occasions and i have punched friends on many occasions but we have still remain friends, but if a friend where to start taking the piss outta me because of who i am then i would take serious offence to that and probably neevr talk to them again.

But thinking about it friends call me a bastard every time i beat them at pool (cmdr_sponge) and i take no offence, i suppose what i am talking about is mental abuse rather than physical abuse and mental abuse doesn't have to involve swearing, where as i feel that mental abuse can be a lot worse than physical abuse, but this all depends on the severity of the physical abuse. some school children commit suicide by receiving constant mental abuse whilst at school and i know that i would rather by punched every day than recaive mental abuse everyday.

 

[zoobyshoe]

What Andy just said gave me a
realization about why physical
abuse is so bad: because it is
a physical manifestation of mental
abuse. It is mental abuse with the
added physical insult.

It is easier to get over physical
pain if there is no mental abuse
component to it.

However, too much physical pain,
from any cause, can also make a
person want to die. Even though
there is no mental abuse compo-
nent. I'm thinking of people
in pain from serious illness for
example. I've gotten food poison-
ing a couple times and felt so
bad I was sure death was where it
was going and wished it would
hurry up.

Zooby

 

[Dagenais]

So, everyday at school you would rather be ganged-up on, be beaten until you bleed then you go into class, then again the next day, you are beaten until you bleed for the rest of the school year every single day (predicting you don't die).

Instead of being insulted everyday, you would rather suffer the humiliation of being punched, kicked and beaten-up?

 

[Andy]

I never said beaten up, I said punched. I have experienced both of these in the form of phyical abuse and mental abuse and the mental abuse was the one that made me want to stay at home with fear that i would receive the same thing again. Whereas when i have been beaten up, not really beaten up just a bloody nose, i found that i didnt fear going back into school the next day, maybe that's just me though.

How many times do you hear about someone being beaten up every day, happens very rarely in the UK, most of the constant bullying that people receive is mental rather than physical.

 

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Originally posted by kenikov
(SNIP) The people who go through suicide usually had mental problems before, or much more than just insults thrown at them. Any Psychiastrist would vouch for this. (SNoP)

This is just a little to broad a conclusion to be making, after all, it is known that people who quit marijuana, will get a bout of depression, timed depression, and an associated "suicidal feeling(s)" simply from there withdrawal from the use of the drug.

There is a difference between physical violence, and mental abuse.

For another thread, perhaps.....?

 

[Andy]

Back to the origional question i think that foul language is the new normal, although there is no need for it to be used it is just the way that our culture has developed over the years.

 

[Dagenais]

The difference between physical abuse is that it hurts, literally. Physical abuse hurts everyone.

Verbal abuse doesn't, in fact, less sensitive people don't find it at harm at all.

If I was beaten-up at school, I would fear going back for sure. Either that or I might get angry and plan a retaliation.

 

[Andy]

Verbal abuse gets too everyone some sooner others later, what you have to remember is that this thread was about foul language not verbal abuse, i agree that most people can receive insults in the form of bad language without caring.

Verbal abuse is an attack on the mind and like any attack if its well placed it is very affective, whereas foul language is just a release of frustration and anger towards something or somebody.

 

[Dagenais]

Not true. I can say verbal abuse cna never "get to" a few people.

The job of Comedians and other celebreties like Tom on The Best Damn Sports show. He never takes insults personally, Jerry Springer doesn't either. Jim Rome insults people and abuses them until he got punches in the face, he just laughs off their replies.

The deal is that verbal abuse is not as effective as physical abuse, that is why the punishment for physical abuse is much more.

 

[Andy]

Everyone has a week spot when it comes to mental abuse, just because they don't react ot verbal insults doesn't mean they are strong minded, if iw as paid not to react to insults then i never would, the fact is evryone has week spots mentally and if someone attacks that they would find it very uncomfortable.