Is It Overprotective to Limit a Partner's Friendships?

[Moonbear]

No, most of my friends are male and the relationships are platonic. The difference is that they are part of a larger group, if a male were to walk up to me and say "I want to be friends with you" I'm not naive enough to believe that it would stay platonic. If the situation were to come up, I'd hang out with a larger group of people and leave it at that. I'm not being paranoid, just realistic.

Really? A woman can't hang out with a male except in a group without it becoming non-platonic? I'd have to disagree with that. I have many male friends, and have done things with them just one at a time as well as in groups. This has never changed the relationship to non-platonic.

Though, I think it is somewhat related to age and relationship status. When I was younger and totally unattached, sure, if an unattached male spent time with me solo and not part of a group, it generally led to non-plantonic-ness. But that's because we were both at an age and stage of life where we were looking for people to form romantic relationships with.

Now, I'm comfortably in a long-term relationship and it doesn't even cross my mind to think about attraction when doing things solo with other men other than my boyfriend. Of course, if they're feeling something they aren't sharing, I have no control over that, but most of the ones I'd just go out with alone are such long-time friends that they're almost like brothers to me.

 

[GeorginaS]

Mentallic, I've been thinking about this while barbecuing more meat than my cat and I can possibly eat for dinner. I should have invited people over.

Anyway, I've been thinking about this, and it made me feel a little sad that you get the impression or feeling that people here are against you or are not on "your side". As a number of people have pointed out, here, it's not about "sides". I can only speak for me, (which stands to reason and is self-evident) but I'd like you to know that even though it sounds as if I'm not on your side, I am. I am because I care enough to talk to you about behaviour that you're telling us about that you may not have thought through entirely. I care enough to try and talk to you about realities of relationships between men and women. I care enough -- meaning I'm taking your side enough -- to try and help you look at what's going on and see a little more clearly.

The only person you are responsible for and whose actions you can control in this situation are yours. That's it. That's so important to learn.

I entirely understand how it doesn't feel that way in some relationships or when experiencing first love relationships in life. You can experience feelings so deep and so intense about another person that when they do things that hurt you, you feel threatened, and it can even make your stomach feel sick. (I hope you understand Metallic, when I'm using the word "you" in these sentences, I mean "you" in the generic sense, and I'm not trying to say that I know how you, personally, are feeling or thinking.) Their actions may haunt your dreams and disturb your sleep. You care about that person so much, and it's so difficult to understand how they can possibly hurt your feelings. You want to make them stop causing you hurt or confusion. It's intense. It's gut-wrenching. So you make demands, because they mean so much to you. I understand all of that and all of those feelings. I've walked in those shoes.

Because I've walked in those shoes (or very similar ones), and because I know how much it hurts and how confusing it is, I'm on your side trying to tell you something. You can only control your behaviour. You only "own" you. You can do your level-best in a relationship and the person you're with can wander off with someone else. All you can do is your best. If she goes away with someone else, then you have to accept that she's a free agent, she's her own person, and it's going to hurt, but you can't stop it. You ask what you should do, just "sell her off to the highest bidder"? Again, she makes those choices for herself, not you. You make choices for yourself.

That's not me being against you or not on your side. That's me being totally on your side trying to help you find a place where you feel more comfortable. That's it.

 

[Monique]

Really? A woman can't hang out with a male except in a group without it becoming non-platonic? I'd have to disagree with that. I have many male friends, and have done things with them just one at a time as well as in groups. This has never changed the relationship to non-platonic.

Though, I think it is somewhat related to age and relationship status. When I was younger and totally unattached, sure, if an unattached male spent time with me solo and not part of a group, it generally led to non-plantonic-ness. But that's because we were both at an age and stage of life where we were looking for people to form romantic relationships with.

Now, I'm comfortably in a long-term relationship and it doesn't even cross my mind to think about attraction when doing things solo with other men other than my boyfriend. Of course, if they're feeling something they aren't sharing, I have no control over that, but most of the ones I'd just go out with alone are such long-time friends that they're almost like brothers to me.

I have experiences that prove it otherwise, so I might be biased. I thought I had platonic male friends, who I would talk to on a daily basis and hang out with. The moment I began seriously dating my boyfriend they completely disappeared out of my life and would not even return the simplest communication. I've also been in a relationship and have other guys wanting to be "friends". It's what let me believe that it is just not possible. Of course it is OK to hang out once in a while, but you wouldn't do that every day and hang on the telephone all night right?

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

I have experiences that prove it otherwise, so I might be biased. I thought I had platonic male friends, who I would talk to on a daily basis and hang out with. The moment I began seriously dating my boyfriend they completely disappeared out of my life and would not even return the simplest communication. I've also been in a relationship and have other guys wanting to be "friends". It's what let me believe that it is just not possible. Of course it is OK to hang out once in a while, but you wouldn't do that every day and hang on the telephone all night right?

It depends on the men. Many men feel that they can not have a "platonic relationship" with a woman. They seem to think that any activity with a woman that is not potentially leading to sex is a waste of time. I think that many women derive their views on "platonic relationships" from the belief and/or experience that men seem to just want to be friends when they think they have a shot at sex. So it would seem that it just requires a man that does not think any interaction with a woman ought to potentially lead to sex and a woman who is not uncomfortable with the fact that either of them may be attracted to the other.

As far as a male and female being friends and neither of them being at all attracted to the other, I think that it is highly unlikely (not counting a gay man and lesbian, though I am fairly certain that most straight women with gay friends are attracted to them).

 

[DanP]

I'm not sure I understand this comment specifically addressing the function of respect in a relationship. Can you explain this better to me, please?

It was a direct response to this:

couple should not stay together because of ethics, they should stay together because they respect each other.

No couple on this world should stay together because they respect each other. Respect is not enough to make any relation work. No person should waste its life staying in a relationship where there is only respect. Move on, find someone else and make him/her happy.

I get the impression from this that you may have taken offense to something I wrote. If so, want to address it with me?

Its cool. You'll know if what you say bothers me . Nothing did so far.

 

[ViewsofMars]

I read through this topic. It made me think of an ancient card I've been saving. (I guess as a *straight* WOMAN I tend to save stuff?) I love this card! It's an antique. Very beautiful.

The card has a beautiful woman walking through a field of tulips and daffodils. Printed on this antique card is the following:

THE TWELVE AVENUES OF BLISS

AVENUE FIVE

The FIFTH AVENUE OF BLISS traverses
the cliffs of comfort. It's the pleasure
of the womanly nature to provide
comfort and solice to the dampened
manly spirit.


Honestly, I have a lot of friends that are male and female. They are *my* friends and I am their friend. Over the years we consider each other to be like a sister or brother. It's nice to have a big family that sticks together when times are good or not so great. Plain and simple, love has no closed door for those whom you care for.

 

[DanP]

I read through this topic. It made me think of an ancient card I've been saving. (I guess as a *straight* WOMAN I tend to save stuff?) I love this card! It's an antique. Very beautiful.

The card has a beautiful woman walking through a field of tulips and daffodils. Printed on this antique card is the following:

THE TWELVE AVENUES OF BLISS

AVENUE FIVE

The FIFTH AVENUE OF BLISS traverses
the cliffs of comfort. It's the pleasure
of the womanly nature to provide
comfort and solice to the dampened
manly spirit.


Honestly, I have a lot of friends that are male and female. They are *my* friends and I am their friend. Over the years we consider each other to be like a sister or brother. It's nice to have a big family that sticks together when times are good or not so great. Plain and simple, love has no closed door for those whom you care for.

Family is awesome, yes. Especially very close families. At the end of the day, no matter the disagreements you have with your family, your kin will always be there for you and support you.

[PLAIN]http://images.goantiques.com/dbimages/QGV9567/QGV956709.jpg

 

[zoobyshoe]

I have experiences that prove it otherwise, so I might be biased. I thought I had platonic male friends, who I would talk to on a daily basis and hang out with. The moment I began seriously dating my boyfriend they completely disappeared out of my life and would not even return the simplest communication. I've also been in a relationship and have other guys wanting to be "friends". It's what let me believe that it is just not possible. Of course it is OK to hang out once in a while, but you wouldn't do that every day and hang on the telephone all night right?

I think you've realized something a fair percentage of women never seem to fathom. Whenever a guy is actively friendly toward a girl there is always an element of sexual attraction to it.

It always surprises me when I find a girl doesn't realize a given guy, who she thinks is merely being friendly, is actually attracted to her. As a guy, I can spot the signs a mile away. In general I find that most women are twice as sensitive to body language and paralanguage than most men, yet this seems to be a fairly common blind spot in that sensitivity. I often wonder why. I suspect, sometimes, they're not really blind to it, but are so overwhelmed by how prevalent it is they have formed a kind of mental callous around it where they've lost feeling.

 

[DanP]

It always surprises me when I find a girl doesn't realize a given guy, who she thinks is merely being friendly, is actually attracted to her. As a guy, I can spot the signs a mile away. In general I find that most women are twice as sensitive to body language and paralanguage than most men, yet this seems to be a fairly common blind spot in that sensitivity. I often wonder why. I suspect, sometimes, they're not really blind to it, but are so overwhelmed by how prevalent it is they have formed a kind of mental callous around it where they've lost feeling.

Its not blindness. IMO, its called not caring. And it happen a lot of man as well. There where women interested in me and I never realized until I was told by a 3rd party, or directly by them after a long time. Why ? Because I never looked at them as a potential sexual partner, I didn't cared to see anything of this nature. It's simply so unimportant that you don't bother and take for granted other things.

I think none should be surprised by this behavior in **both** man and women. When attraction is not reciprocal, we simply don't care enough to see. We are actively engaged in much more important pursuits to spend any attention span on something which doesn't mean anything to us.

In hindsight, it's always easy to see the signs. But then when it happens, you simply don't see them because you don't care.

Whenever a guy is actively friendly toward a girl there is always an element of sexual attraction to it.

this is not really true. I am pretty friendly, even actively, towards many women. The wives of some of my friends, the girls in the local mountain rescue team, some co-workers from my previous jobs and so on, friends of my gf. It's because I'm a social animal and I enjoy society, not because I necessarily want to screw them.

Friends, true friends,with bonds forged over decades of common history, i have very few. They are all males. But there is a lot of blur between friends and acquaintances, and this area is populated with persons of both sexes for me and in continuous flux.

 

[Huckleberry]

I'm starting to wonder what some of these people think about relationships. Inferring from the comments that "she's her own person, you can't own her, let her do what she wants", is it then true that I can sleep with as many women as I want who are not my girlfriend, and if she gets angry, I can then say "you don't own me, I'm my own person"? Excellent... oh, and if this is not actually true, then you are applying a double standard, saying women should be praised for straying (Mentallic's girlfriend), while men should be vilified for the same thing (examples? pick 'em). I don't support a double standard.

Don't confuse disapproval with Mentallic's reactions to approval of his girlfriend's behaviour. He has good reason to be concerned. His possessive mentality is hindering communication in his relationship. He doesn't want to respect her wishes. He wants to dictate them. He doesn't want to set his own boundaries and be prepared to feel the pain of standing by his decisions. He wants to set her boundaries to avoid feeling the pain of having to stand by his own.

She is her own person. He doesn't own her. She can always do what she wants. She could sleep with as many men as she wants who are not her boyfriend. If that doesn't cross her boyfriend's boundaries then there isn't a problem. If it does, then he has to make the choice to tolerate the disrespect, or to abandon the relationship. It's a simple choice, but the consequences are sometimes tough.

It depends on the men. Many men feel that they can not have a "platonic relationship" with a woman. They seem to think that any activity with a woman that is not potentially leading to sex is a waste of time. I think that many women derive their views on "platonic relationships" from the belief and/or experience that men seem to just want to be friends when they think they have a shot at sex. So it would seem that it just requires a man that does not think any interaction with a woman ought to potentially lead to sex and a woman who is not uncomfortable with the fact that either of them may be attracted to the other.

As far as a male and female being friends and neither of them being at all attracted to the other, I think that it is highly unlikely (not counting a gay man and lesbian, though I am fairly certain that most straight women with gay friends are attracted to them).

Attraction isn't the same thing as sexual intent. I'm not sure if you were implying that comparison from one paragraph to the next. I have one female friend who is not attracted to me, nor me to her, and we get along quite well without physical attraction. Of course, I can't speak for her interests with complete certainty.

Usually though, I would say you are right. Where there is a male/female friendship, at least one is attracted to the other. However, the path that relationship takes to being non-platonic isn't guaranteed by the attraction even if they are both attracted to each other.

I knew a woman several years ago when I was in school. We were both attracted to each other. She started wearing her wedding ring to class, but continued to flirt with me. She even once mentioned that she would cheat on her husband, but would never leave him. When she said that I lost a great deal of respect for her. If she would hurt the person that she loves most, it would be foolish for me to trust her as a friend. Similarly, if I were in a relationship, I wouldn't want to hurt the person I loved because I felt some physical urge for another. It's not worth pursuing even if my partner never discovered the infidelity. It would reduce the happiness I would receive from my existing relationship. A single, straight person not in any relationship might see things differently. For some, a good relationship is more valuable than casual sex, and worth protecting.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Its not blindness. IMO, its called not caring...

...In hindsight, it's always easy to see the signs. But then when it happens, you simply don't see them because you don't care.

It doesn't surprise me a guy would miss it for whatever reason. It surprises me in girls because I'm otherwise always impressed by how sensitive and reactive they are to body language and paralanguage.

this is not really true. I am pretty friendly, even actively, towards many women. The wives of some of my friends, the girls in the local mountain rescue team, some co-workers from my previous jobs and so on, friends of my gf. It's because I'm a social animal and I enjoy society, not because I necessarily want to screw them.

What I'm saying is that when a woman finds a man actively trying to "make friends" with her
she can be confident there's an element of sexual attraction. (Of course there will be cases where there are obvious other ulterior motives, like if she's his boss and he's sucking up to get a raise, or he wants to borrow money, or if there's some social advantage to be gained by being her friend.)

 

[rewebster]

Age brings a lot of experience into focus...

 

[Pattonias]

I think in this thread we have been switching back and forth between the crudeness of wanting a hook-up when befriending a girl and the wanting of a relationship. The attraction to a person doesn't just exist on the sexual level. You may want the psychological intimacy that you receive from a real relationship. If you out for that with a women and it is not returned, it is painful and you don't want to put yourself in a position to repeatedly be hurt. That is why it can be difficult to remain friends after that line is crossed.
This is deeper than the attempt at a sexual advance that is rejected. In that case you are simply moving on to the next possibility.

 

[Evo]

It doesn't surprise me a guy would miss it for whatever reason. It surprises me in girls because I'm otherwise always impressed by how sensitive and reactive they are to body language and paralanguage.


What I'm saying is that when a woman finds a man actively trying to "make friends" with her
she can be confident there's an element of sexual attraction. (Of course there will be cases where there are obvious other ulterior motives, like if she's his boss and he's sucking up to get a raise, or he wants to borrow money, or if there's some social advantage to be gained by being her friend.)

For me, it's because I wish to believe that men might find me interesting as a person and seek out my friendship, but you're right, most of the time the man ended up making that final awkward move and tell me they wanted a romantic relationship, or they just disapeared.

I think in a lot of male/female "friendships", one of them feels an attraction and the other doesn't. So this brings up 2 possible scenarios. Either the one that doesn't feel an attraction assumes the other person doesn't either, or they assume the other party is attracted and (unfeeling party) enjoys it, knowing it will always be one sided.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Attraction isn't the same thing as sexual intent. I'm not sure if you were implying that comparison from one paragraph to the next. I have one female friend who is not attracted to me, nor me to her, and we get along quite well without physical attraction. Of course, I can't speak for her interests with complete certainty.

Usually though, I would say you are right. Where there is a male/female friendship, at least one is attracted to the other. However, the path that relationship takes to being non-platonic isn't guaranteed by the attraction even if they are both attracted to each other.

I do not mean "sexual intent" if you mean an intention to have sex with the person, just perceiving the person in a sexual context. Obviously if you are friends with anyone you are "attracted" to them. The only difference is when that person is of the gender you prefer you may perceive them sexually which will colour your attraction.

The first time someone told me about this idea I first thought it was silly but as I thought about it I realized that I was definitely attracted to the majority of my female friends and that I was not really sure if those I was not attracted to might be attracted to me. I even found out recently that a gay friend of mine from high school had a crush on me. I see it everywhere. I have had several people tell me that they have utterly "platonic" relationships but in every case where I actually knew the person to whom they referred I knew it was not true. The only exceptions I have found have been relationships that were 'cemented' over long periods of time or influenced by cultural norms (such as family* and cases of large age differences).

* a cousin of mine and I had huge crushes on each other when we were younger but got over it because we were cousins. We eventually confessed to one another and then found out a few years later that we are not even blood related. :-/

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

For me, it's because I wish to believe that men might find me interesting as a person

What better reason to be attracted to someone?

 

[Pattonias]

Evo it isn't that men would not be attracted to you because you are not an interesting person, it's that we are attracted to the women we find interesting.

 

[DanP]

One of the best type of man women friendship: The booty call. No unspent sexual tension on either side, no strings attached and a lot of enjoyable time spent together in many situations, in various social environments and it does work for both. No awkward moments. And many times the relation endures even after the "benefits" part ends. Now the awkwardness may transfer to your your actual SO if they ever learn the history, and they usually do, but that is another story.

 

[DanP]

Evo it isn't that men would not be attracted to you because you are not an interesting person, it's that we are attracted to the women we find interesting.

Yeah, would be really weird to pursue a romantic relationship with someone who you don't find interesting.

 

[Pattonias]

Yeah, would be really weird to pursue a romantic relationship with someone who you don't find interesting.

Wow, that suddenly reads differently than I had intended I must admit. I guess I meant to say that when men find women interesting and mentally stimulating they are generally attracted to them. Attraction is not just physical.

 

[DanP]

Attraction is not just physical.

Sure, but whiteout physical attraction you have nothing. O, wait, you have friendship.

So best man -women friendship works when sexual tension does not exist. Either because neither have it (like with the overwhelming majority of ppl who enter in your social group), either because is spent in a friends with benefits type relation.

And this is why IMO we are so blind to the intentions of ppl approaching us as "friends". If you feel no physical attraction, you simply stereotype and naturally assume the friend position. Since you don't care for more, you'll just use whatever schema is in your head for the archetype you *believe* that person is.

 

[Pattonias]

Sure, but whiteout physical attraction you have nothing. O, wait, you have friendship.

So best man -women friendship works when sexual tension does not exist. Either because neither have it, either because is spent in a friends with benefits type relation.

And this is why IMO we are so blind to the intentions of ppl approaching us as "friends". If you feel no physical attraction, you simply stereotype and naturally assume the friend position. Since you don't care for more, you'll just use whatever schema is in your head for the archetype you *believe* that person is.

I could actually go along with that as a source of so many one-sided friendships. It seems like a decent assumption of what a person is thinking in that situation.

 

[ViewsofMars]

Honestly, I have a lot of friends that are male and female. They are *my* friends and I am their friend. Over the years we consider each other to be like a sister or brother. It's nice to have a big family that sticks together when times are good or not so great. Plain and simple, love has no closed door for those whom you care for

Family is awesome, yes. Especially very close families. At the end of the day, no matter the disagreements you have with your family, your kin will always be there for you and support you.

DanP, I wasn’t talking about kin. Also, you might like to consider some people don’t have relatives that are alive or live close to each other. Foremost, above all else, I'm not going to let anyone dictate to me what he or she may think what friendship is about. I'm a woman over 50 years old that has friends that are men and women that I have known for over 30 years. We are all good looking, in peak physical health, intelligent, sensible, and sensitive folk. And they most definitely are part of my family and they consider me to be part of theirs. We respect and admire each other in a healthy way since we are grown-ups. We set an example for children and young adults.

 

[DanP]

I could actually go along with that as a source of so many one-sided friendships. It seems like a decent assumption of what a person is thinking in that situation.

So girls, don't be subtle with us :P Use a jackhammer if need be. Saves the awkward moment later.

 

[DanP]

DanP, I wasn’t talking about kin. Also, you might like to consider some people don’t have relatives that are alive or live close to each other. Foremost, above all else, I'm not going to let anyone dictate to me what he or she may think what friendship is about. I'm a woman over 50 years old that has friends that are men and women that I have known for over 30 years. We are all good looking, in peak physical health, intelligent, sensible, and sensitive folk. And they most definitely are part of my family and they consider me to be part of theirs. We respect and admire each in a healthy way since we are grown-ups

Ah, I misunderstood you. I've reread your original message and yes, you where clear in it. Sorry. I've read probably what I wanted to hear :P

 

[Pattonias]

So girls, don't be subtle with us :P Use a jackhammer if need be. Saves the awkward moment later.

Absolutely, I tell my girlfriend that all the time. Don't assume I understood anything that she may have hinted at. More likely than not, I did not understand. I can not be held accountable for something you did not flat out say to me. I'm not that intuitive into the girl psychi.

 

[DanP]

Absolutely, I tell my girlfriend that all the time. Don't assume I understood anything that she may have hinted at. More likely than not, I did not understand. I can not be held accountable for something you did not flat out say to me. I'm not that intuitive into the girl psychi.

Modern Women's vision on Prince Charming:

Rich, strong, sexy, educated and mind reader :P

 

[ViewsofMars]

DanP, I wasn’t talking about kin. Also, you might like to consider some people don’t have relatives that are alive or live close to each other. Foremost, above all else, I'm not going to let anyone dictate to me what he or she may think what friendship is about. I'm a woman over 50 years old that has friends that are men and women that I have known for over 30 years. We are all good looking, in peak physical health, intelligent, sensible, and sensitive folk. And they most definitely are part of my family and they consider me to be part of theirs. We respect and admire each other in a healthy way since we are grown-ups. We set an example for children and young adults.

Ah, I misunderstood you. I've reread your original message and yes, you where clear in it. Sorry. I've read probably what I wanted to hear :P

Apology accepted though I doubt you can hear me. I've also recopied my original remark since you left out from your previous message to me what I consider to be highly important information which I have now highlighed in red.

 

[DanP]

Apology accepted though I doubt you can hear me. I've also recopied my original remark since you left out from your previous message to me what I consider to be highly important information which I have now highlighed in red.

I hear you, only I can't relate, at least not totally . For me blood stands above everything else(save SO, which is not blood, but its up there with blood. I guess this is called conjugal family in English) . My closest friends (which are very few and as you said the bond was made during decades) are maybe part of an "extended family", In not sure I use the proper term in English her. In a word I have a internal hierarchy for all my close social relations. In the day to day life this hierarchy doesn't mean much, it's pretty much transparent. The consequence however is that my expectations from them are slightly lower, and if need to choose ever arise, Ill choose blood without as much as a blink.

We set an example for children and young adults.

Its very nice you guys do this. I guess it has its value.

 

[rewebster]

I think we need to hear from Mentallic-----

we need an update---

 

[Mentallic]

I think we need to hear from Mentallic-----

we need an update---

You're right. I couldn't check up for 2 days now and there's another 2 pages to read through. I'll get to it when I have the time.

Right now, there's another issue which she is burdened with. Her long time best friend which I mentioned a couple of times that said he liked her recently, well he's stopped talking to her now. He's shut himself out of her life completely and she is saddened by this.

I understand why he's doing it though. It can be too overbearing at times to like a girl that you can't have and so the easiest way is to not see her at all.
This is what I wanted that guy that tried to ask my girlfriend out to do, I wanted her to become detached from him so he can get over her. Except for her really good friend... I like the guy, and know him fairly well so I trust him with her much more than I trust the other.

 

[zoobyshoe]

For me, it's because I wish to believe that men might find me interesting as a person and seek out my friendship, but you're right, most of the time the man ended up making that final awkward move and tell me they wanted a romantic relationship, or they just disapeared.

"That Final Awkward Move". Should be a movie title.

I think in a lot of male/female "friendships", one of them feels an attraction and the other doesn't. So this brings up 2 possible scenarios. Either the one that doesn't feel an attraction assumes the other person doesn't either, or they assume the other party is attracted and (unfeeling party) enjoys it, knowing it will always be one sided.

male/female friendship: n 1.) either of two types of unilateral romance

 

[DanP]

"That Final Awkward Move".

With Amy Winehouse playing the awkward move :P

 

[rewebster]

You're right. I couldn't check up for 2 days now and there's another 2 pages to read through. I'll get to it when I have the time.

Right now, there's another issue which she is burdened with. Her long time best friend which I mentioned a couple of times that said he liked her recently, well he's stopped talking to her now. He's shut himself out of her life completely and she is saddened by this.

I understand why he's doing it though. It can be too overbearing at times to like a girl that you can't have and so the easiest way is to not see her at all.
This is what I wanted that guy that tried to ask my girlfriend out to do, I wanted her to become detached from him so he can get over her. Except for her really good friend... I like the guy, and know him fairly well so I trust him with her much more than I trust the other.

you're playing a dangerous game ----if she sees through what you're doing/thinking, how can she trust you?

 

[Pattonias]

you're playing a dangerous game ----if she sees through what you're doing/thinking, how can she trust you?

Wanting the other guy to back off doesn't seem unreasonable.