Is Kate Moss's View on Thinness Controversial? Share Your Opinion!

[DanP]

She eats plenty, but just has the sort of genetics that keep her thin.

Interesting enough , if one has a resting metabolic rate only with 50kcal higher than another person, and if you assume that in a kilogram of bodyfat there are about 7700 kcal , in the course of a year you have: 50x365 = 18250 supplementary more kcal / year used. It amounts to 2.37 Kg of bodyfat.

While it doesn't seem a big number, it is a lot.

It this also brings me to another issue. How finely tuned must be regulation of appetite in a human to maintain weight. Just several kcal / day make a big impact on the course of a year. Say an excess of just 3g of fats (9kcal / g ) / day is 27kcal , over the course of a year 9855 kcal.

I find it extremely hard to imagine anyone can regulate appetite to account for 3g of fat in a meal. Perhaps regulation of body mass include "delayed" mechanisms which work over larger time spans, and which compensate for such minute quantities being ingested. Perhaps by modulating RMR. But then again, what constitutes the reference to which the whole system is reported ?

Its fascinating. More than that, human body is elegant.

 

[Proton Soup]

Is not such a low blow ...Cmmon, do it for the fun of it

yeah, it's not much going to bug most guys, tho

 

[DaveC426913]

I find it extremely hard to imagine anyone can regulate appetite to account for 3g of fat in a meal.

We can't. Which is why, as a people, we're gaining weight.


It worked quite well when our food source was limited and our means to get it was labour-intensive. Simpy eat as much as you can. If you ate enough, you lived. If you didn't get enough, you might be weaker, expend less enrgy, sleep longer etc. or in extreme cases, died.

 

[leroyjenkens]

So, there can be a genetic component that comes from any of a large variety of hormones and signalling molecules. Alternatively, just as diabetes has an acquired form, so may obesity. So, just as you can permanently screw up your insulin receptors by being obese for a long time or since an early age, it is possible you can screw up your leptin receptors (leptin insensitivity) or any other of these receptors, if you start out overweight from an early age, and may get to the point where it does not matter how much you want to lose weight, you've already broken that regulatory system. This is of rising concern with the increase in childhood obesity. Children really don't know better, so if their parents allow them to be obese and don't help them regulate their diet when young, they really may be set up for life-long problems that will not be reversible once older.

I think that's what happens; parents make their kids overweight, therefore dooming them to be overweight for life.
If you see an entire family who is overweight, I doubt they all eat carrots all day and can't seem to lose weight.
Just because you have the feeling you need to eat more, why does it have to be cake? I eat a lot, but I'm careful what I eat, therefore I'm not fat.

Not all persons who are overweight present genetic defects in the regulation mechanisms. A lot of persons who get fat can thank this to a lifestyle where the need to do physical work (and hence oxidize nutrients ) is very low, and food is discretionary available.

However , it should be noted that staying long times overweight can induce acquired defects in metabolic regulation. Some of those can be reversible, some irreversible and you have to deal with them for the rest of your life.

My original point was directed at people who claim they CAN'T lose weight or they CAN'T gain weight. That just means they're not doing it right.

It isn't.

It also isn't a valid comparison to my quotes of your words and is thus irrelevant.

"I don't think there's such thing as naturally or unnaturally skinny or chubby."

This statement alone is a contradiction. How can something be neither natural nor unnatural?

You know what I meant. I think you're just nitpicking.

We're all the 'ectomorph' type

People talk about the body types like they're set in stone. You're ectomorph, but when you gain weight, you're another type of morph. Well, what's the point of giving it a technical name if it can change? Just say you're all skinny.

and have always wanted to gain weight. I tried the pizza, BLT burger, french fries diet; the chocolate ice cream diet; the protein-shakes diet.

I have a friend who says the same thing, but he eats so little of it, it's no wonder he can't gain weight. He has a small stomach, so it doesn't stretch very far. His idea of eating a lot is the same as me just getting started. He may eat his idea of a bunch of pizza, which is 3 slices, when I eat an entire large pizza by myself.

I never dared to join the gym, because you only work out when you want to loose weight.

Depends on the exercise. If you do cardio, you'll probably lose weight, but if you lift weights, you'll not only gain weight in muscle, you'll start eating more often.

Anyway, I've always found it very annoying that people think they can dictate how you should look.

You should look how you want to look. It's nobody elses business how you look. They should be worrying about themselves.

It is an image that is created in society: you go to aerobics to loose weight and the gym to become a buff muscle-beast and loose weight (fat). When I figured out that resistance training might be a good option I contacted a gym and asked what training program would be good, but hit a closed door.

I did join a gym for some time and combined the exercise with protein shakes. Now I joined a program that has a more personal approach and strengthens muscles in the extended position. It is called Essentrics and I'm very happy with it. I probably should join my boyfriend to the gym tomorrow, I wouldn't mind a body like Shakira

Do squats. Squats give women really nice butts and thighs. Most people see that as a man's exercise, but it's not.

You wouldn't say to a chubby person that hugging them feels like hugging fatty-blubber?

Of course not, who wants to hug a fat person in the first place?

Just kidding.

 

[DanP]

Simpy eat as much as you can. If you ate enough, you lived. If you didn't get enough, you might be weaker, expend less enrgy, sleep longer etc. or in extreme cases, died.

Indeed. It worked back then, but this kills "us" in western society today. Activity levels due to work dropped significantly in the last 150 years. I seen studies estimating that average man and women back then expended 3500 Kcal / day. Food was scarcer than today.

Where are we today in western society ? An overabundance of food and abysmal activity levels, for both adults and kids. Some don't even allow their children to play rougher games because they are afraid they'll get "hurt". Some will keep them "safe in house" during winter and bad weather because poor child will get "ill" if exposed to elements. And to top this, they'll say "eat everything from your plate, else you won't grow", forcing the kid to overfeed. We get fatter, the average V02 Max for populations drops continuously, strength levels in most adults are very low... Metabolic regulation spins out of control even from childhood.

Giving this bleak image, Id say KM is right, her motto should be adopted by a lot of persons.
And in this thread I believe Lisa put it in best words so far.

 

[turbo]

Giving this bleak image, Id say KM is right, her motto should be adopted by a lot of persons.

You know that Moss has a cocaine habit, right? Between cigarettes, coffee, booze, and coke, she's not the right person to be giving out life-style or health advice.

Have you heard the term "heroin chic" applied to severely underweight fashion models? There's a reason for that.

 

[DanP]

My original point was directed at people who claim they CAN'T lose weight or they CAN'T gain weight. That just means they're not doing it right.

.

Of course everybody can lose or gain weight. But this doesn't mean everybody is born with the same "body". Because it is not so. We are not created equal. Expression (or lack thereof) of certain genes or a slightly different regulation can drastically change the landscape.

A slightly higher RMR, higher concentration of certain hormones, higher concentration of several key enzymes and you can end with quite different body compositions.

That does not mean that one of those persons had a inborn defect in gene regulation.
They are both in normal range of function. Yet one needs less effort to maintain a certain body composition than the other one. Or for that matter, to achieve certain results in sport competition. Our physiology is the same. Yet there we are not the same.

 

[DanP]

You know that Moss has a cocaine habit, right? Between cigarettes, coffee, booze, and coke, she's not the right person to be giving out life-style or health advice.

Have you heard the term "heroin chic" applied to severely underweight fashion models? There's a reason for that.

I know, but I don't really care. It is not for me to judge her.

 

[xxChrisxx]

Turbo it wasn't meant to be health advice though was it. It wasn't an interview for a healthy eating magazine, it was an interview for a fashion column.

 

[DaveC426913]

I know, but I don't really care. It is not for me to judge her.

But it is crucial to answering the OP question.

 

[xxChrisxx]

But it is crucial to answering the OP question.

Why?

She wasn't being asked to give advice on health. she was asked if she had any mottos that she lived by. Her other habits are irrelevent.

The OP just asked for comments on this.

 

[DanP]

Have you heard the term "heroin chic" applied to severely underweight fashion models? There's a reason for that.

Besides, if you use the commonly accepted dimensions of Kate Moss and you do the calculations, you see that her BMI is ~16.8 - 16.9. This category is at the lowish end of underweight , not severely underweight, which, if i recall correctly, starts at 16.5.

Btw, judging from the data you posted on board, it seems that before college you only had 7kg on KM. Only with 0.3 above start of underweight category which starts at 18.5.

Now should we start inventing names for the opposite category above normal BMI, the overweight ? How about we start calling the category 25 - 30 BMI "lard chic" ?

It would be mighty cool, don't you think so ?

 

[DaveC426913]

Why?

She wasn't being asked to give advice on health. she was asked if she had any mottos that she lived by. Her other habits are irrelevent.

The OP just asked for comments on this.

Her drug habit is inextricably linked to her weight.
Her weight is inextricably linked to her career and celebrity.
Her career and celebrity are inextricably tied to her status as a role model.

And like it or not, she is a role model.

So, what she is saying is tantmount to "getting superthin is an excellent path to supermodeldom and fame".
And how does Kate get superthin? With a drug addiction (and maybe eating less).

 

[DaveC426913]

Now should we start inventing names for the opposite category above normal BMI, the overweight ? How about we start calling the category 25 - 30 BMI "lard chic" ?

We do.

Overweight.
Obese.
Morbidly obese.

 

[xxChrisxx]

So, what she is saying is tantmount to "getting superthin is an excellent path to supermodeldom and fame".
And how does Kate get superthin? With a drug addiction (and maybe eating less).

Only really truly stupid people and those who are doing it on puropse, who are unable to read into comment to find out what they acutally mean think she was saying.
"Anorexia... it's marvellous"It was a comment on self control over what you eat.
"Should I eat the meat pie... or the salad?"
Meat pies taste better, but make you fat.

Fact is we should have self control over what we eat. The fact that she doesn't practise what she preaches with regards to cocaine, alcohol etc, makes precisely no odds what so ever.

Also read the next thing she said. "you try to remember but it doesn't always work"
It was a stupid thing for her to say, as it was obvious the media were going to go ape**** about it.

 

[DanP]

We do.

Overweight.
Obese.
Morbidly obese.

We don't. 25 -29.9 is referred with the politically correct term "overweight". How about calling those models politically correct as well, "underweight" not "heroin chic" ? Do we also go to our female coworkers or acquaintances over 25 - 29.9 category and call them "lard chic" ?

 

[DaveC426913]

We don't. 25 -29.9 is referred with the politically correct term "overweight". How about calling those models politically correct as well, "underweight" not "heroin chic" ? Do we also go to our female coworkers or acquaintances over 25 - 29.9 category and call them "lard chic" ?

You do realize that there's a big distinction here between the correct clinical terms and the popular slurs...

Severely underweight
Underweight
Ideal
Overweight
Obese
Morbidly obese

as opposed to

Heroin chic
Normal
Fat
Lard-butt

So I'm not sure what your problem is.

 

[DanP]

Her drug habit is inextricably linked to her weight.

I have a friend who is also in the "underweight" category. I can ensure you she is not doing drugs. Also a male friend. Underweight also. He is not doing drugs.

You just can't generalize anything in this.

 

[DaveC426913]

Only really truly stupid people and those who are doing it on puropse, who are unable to read into comment to find out what they acutally mean think she was saying.
"Anorexia... it's marvellous"

It is fact that young, impressionable girls are taking after these underweight supermodels. And indeed some are anorexic.

Call them stupid if you want; that changes nothing.

 

[DaveC426913]

I have a friend who is also in the "underweight" category. I can ensure you she is not doing drugs. Also a male friend. Underweight also. He is not doing drugs.

You just can't generalize anything in this.

I didn't.

Note the pronoun: her.

How can you possibly misread that?

 

[xxChrisxx]

You said her weight is directly affected by her using drugs. You have precisely no way of backing that statement up, its your opinion not fact.

Her drug habit is inextricably linked to her weight.

Prove it.

It's infact far more likey that she's skinny because she doen't eat enough to put on weight. A sniff of the party powder doesn't make you not eat (in majority of cases, there are those who get hyper and chose not to/forget to eat). It also doesn't make you magically lose weight either.

For you to make that statemnt, you are assuming she is an addict. A user != addict, even a habitual user. You've got to remember the company she was keeping at the time of the cocaine Kate stuff. You are also assuming she is one of the people that cocaine stops appetite. Anyway nicotine is a better hunger supressant than cocaine is. You are also assuming she is still a user.

Note, she's still skinny.

 

[DanP]

You do realize that there's a big distinction here between the correct clinical terms and the popular slurs...

Severely underweight
Underweight
Ideal
Overweight
Obese
Morbidly obese

as opposed to

Heroin chic
Normal
Fat
Lard-butt

So I'm not sure what your problem is.

No problem at all, but when I said we should call 25 - 29.9 BMI "lard chic", you responded that we do ... and started to enumerate the correct clinical terms. Interesting choice, I was expecting a derogatory slang as well.

 

[Monique]

But comments about my daughter's looks were few and far between. The vast majority of comments she heard while growing up were about on how smart she is, and how kind-hearted she is...positive reinforcement .

That's good

My original point was directed at people who claim they CAN'T lose weight or they CAN'T gain weight. That just means they're not doing it right.

Of course, everything is possible. If you eat more or less that should make a difference, but the amount of effort is not proportional to what is achieved. The only time I noticed I gained some weight is when I was eating 3 warm meals a day: Indian curry in the morning, BLT burger/pizza/fries during lunch and a regular warm meal during diner. Of course the weight didn't stay on for very long. I guess I'll set up an appointment with a nutritionist some day, I've always wondered what an expert would have to say

People talk about the body types like they're set in stone. You're ectomorph, but when you gain weight, you're another type of morph. Well, what's the point of giving it a technical name if it can change? Just say you're all skinny.

I can't help but think that people are not created equally, a clear example is how fat is stored: the locations can be very different from person to person. Funny thing is that I have a younger sister that I grew up with and she does have "meat on the bones", there was a big difference between her and my build even at a young age. Did my parents feed her more? My knowledge on anatomy is not extensive, so I don't know how much variety there is in basic anatomy from person to person. What determines the main variety in the size of a wrist, is it the bone, the muscles or the fat underneath the skin?

Do squats. Squats give women really nice butts and thighs. Most people see that as a man's exercise, but it's not.

Actually I have a home-trainer to train those muscles. Of course my older sister and I over the years managed to gain a few pounds, J-lo is my role model in that regard

 

[DaveC426913]

You said her weight is directly affected by her using drugs. You have precisely no way of backing that statement up, its your opinion not fact.



Prove it.

It's infact far more likey that she's skinny because she doen't eat enough to put on weight. A sniff of the party powder doesn't make you not eat (in majority of cases, there are those who get hyper and chose not to eat). It also doesn't make you magically lose weight either.

I'll leave it to the experts to hash out how much of her weight is actually attributable to her past drug addictions.

But we are talking about her role model status. It doesn't really matter how true it is, she is still sending the message to impressionable wannabes.

 

[xxChrisxx]

Dave don't just dismiss it. You made a statement that her low weight is almost solely down to drug use (as that was the only factor you explicity outlined) and you just can't back that up. She is still skinny, but no longer uses... so you have a problem with you statement right there.

Yes she is a role model, and it was stupid for her to say it. Becuase it was obvious that people were going to read into it, that is was pro anorexic. However reading EXACTLY what she said, It's a comment about self control and not anorexia.

So say what you will. The SENTIMENT behind the statement was correct.I can't tell if you were on of the people who read it as pro anorexic, or are just taking a contrary view to play devils advocate.

 

[DanP]

Actually I have a home-trainer to train those muscles. Of course my older sister and I over the years managed to gain a few pounds, J-lo is my role model in that regard

Actually, he is right here, there are not many things in this world which help shape a women's *** like *deep back squats* do. No home training toy will ever come close. On the other hand is a pretty technical exercise and the cause of a lot of injuries in strength training, so any adult should be properly instructed before attempting to squat. Children still have the ability to squat deep naturally and beautifully, but most western adults seems they lost this capacity. Thanks to a sedentary life :P

 

[cristo]

Yes she is a role model, and it was stupid for her to say it. Becuase it was obvious that people were going to read into it, that is was pro anorexic.

However reading EXACTLY what she said, It's a comment about self control and not anorexia.

The important part is, unfortunately, not reading exactly what she said, but the idea that was put across by the snippet of her interview: after all, this is what the youngsters who idolise her are going to do. Of course, it's also the fault of the media for representing her comments in this slightly biased way, but ultimately, it is totally irresponsible for her to be using a pro-anorexia motto in any interview.

 

[DaveC426913]

You made a statement that her low weight is almost solely down to drug use (as that was the only factor you explicity outlined)

I did not say that at all. I said they are inextricably linked.

and you just can't back that up. She is still skinny, but no longer uses... so you have a problem with you statement right there.

It doesn't matter if it's fact. The idea of rolemodeldom is that one you idolize is giving you advice on things you don't know yourself. That's why you model yourself after them. Since it is impossible to go out and seek first-hand data on everything you want, you trust those you respect.

 

[DanP]

. Of course, it's also the fault of the media for representing her comments in this slightly biased way, but ultimately, it is totally irresponsible for her to be using a pro-anorexia motto in any interview.

I would say "using a motto which can be interpreted as pro-anorexia", for I agree with Chris's interpretation.

 

[DanP]

It doesn't matter if it's fact. It is the message she is sending.

What is the message ? That ppl should eat less ? Look around on the streets, armies of fat slobs, both man and women, should stop eating the mountains of food they ingest.

 

[xxChrisxx]

It doesn't matter if it's fact. It is the message she is sending.

She's NOT sending that message though. What she said, and what the headlines then say she said are two different things.

WWD: Do you have a motto?
KM: There are loads. There’s “Nothing tastes as good as skinny feels.” That’s one of them. You try and remember, but it never works.

is NOT the same as

http://omg.yahoo.com/news/kate-moss-blasted-for-saying-being-skinny-is-better-than-eating/31526

Kate Moss Blasted for Saying Being Skinny Is Better Than Eating

or

http://www.care2.com/causes/womens-rights/blog/kate-moss-says-skinny-is-better-than-healthy/

Kate Moss Says Skinny Is Better Than Healthy

or

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1229305/Kate-Moss-criticised-skinny-best-motto.html

Kate Moss was criticised yesterday for failing to issue a proper apology after boasting that it was better to be skinny than to eat.

Dave you love pointing out logical fallacies and crap like that. This is a really effective use of a quotemine.
The first part of the stamtent can be read as pro enorexic, the very next thing she says puts it into a context that doesn't mean what the papers are saying.

It's the same sentiment as my motto

"don't eat pies Chris, you'll become a fatty"

 

[Monique]

Has it ever been studied whether people become anorexic because of a role model that is thin? As far as I know (I recently watched a documentary that followed anorexic women), it is more about having control than losing weight. I strongly received the impression that it is very comparable to an obsessive compulsive disorder. Of course the process of going on a diet can trigger anorexia, but it is not a direct cause.

 

[xxChrisxx]

Has it ever been studied whether people become anorexic because of a role model that is thin? As far as I know (I recently watched a documentary that followed anorexic women), it is more about having control than losing weight. I strongly received the impression that it is very comparable to an obsessive compulsive disorder. Of course the process of going on a diet can trigger anorexia, but it is not a direct cause.

I remember seeing sometihng like this on channel 4. (In the UK). It was quite a while ago though.

 

[DanP]

Kate Moss was criticised yesterday for failing to issue a proper apology after boasting that it was better to be skinny than to eat.

This is a particularly funny one. I guess I should also go and apologize to all the fat ones who I managed to motivate to take a better approach to nutrition and fitness.

" 'Hey man , sorry I motivated you to lose the mountains of fat you had. Sorry I told you to refrain of eating the mountains of CHO and fats you do. You know what, you where better fat, depressed and risking diabetes"

 

[DaveC426913]

What is the message ? That ppl should eat less ? Look around on the streets, armies of fat slobs, both man and women, should stop eating the mountains of food they ingest.

Have you been out to lunch for the last dozen posts?

Whose ear do you think she has? Do you think all those regular people you're seeing on the street - including overweight girls and boys and adults - are listening to Kate Moss on how to be a supermodel? No. Normal young girls who do not need to lose weight are starving themselves sick to model themselves after her and other unhealthily skinny stereotypes.