Is Vaccination Necessary in the Age of Digital Singularity?

[Norman]

I got my regular season flu vaccination today. And 20 minutes ago, I was notified that a child at the daycare both my kids attend tested positive for H1N1... my daughter is only 5 months old and my son is 2, so it is a little scary to consider them getting it...

So, in all likelihood, the arrival of the H1N1 vaccine will not be in time to matter for my family... (we don't have access to it yet here).

 

[Sorry!]

I got my regular season flu vaccination today. And 20 minutes ago, I was notified that a child at the daycare both my kids attend tested positive for H1N1... my daughter is only 5 months old and my son is 2, so it is a little scary to consider them getting it...

So, in all likelihood, the arrival of the H1N1 vaccine will not be in time to matter for my family... (we don't have access to it yet here).

Why's it taking so long to get the vacinations to some areas?

Kind of worrisome. It's a good thing they can deploy upwards of 200 000 soldiers to any part of the world pretty much over night with all the necessary equipment etc. though.

 

[Count Iblis]

You can also make your bunker ready, just in case...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7379741.stm

Alex Steffen, a journalist and editor based in Seattle, is one of those "daring to prepare" for a coming "tiny apocalypse".

"The systems we rely on are brittle and facing strain," he says. "Here in Seattle we are vulnerable to earthquakes and I also live near a big volcano. Climate change is causing more extreme weather events. There could be a global bird flu outbreak or some other pandemic."

For these reasons, Steffen and his girlfriend have stocked six weeks' worth of food in their basement and have invested in a water-purifying kit. "We are taking precautions," he says, referring to himself as an "urban liberal survivalist".

 

[NeoDevin]

I got my swine flu vaccine today!

 

[Alfi]

If anyone here has paid for the shot, how much was it?

Why is it so hard to get a single answer to my question?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

How much ?

 

[Count Iblis]

Why is it so hard to get a single answer to my question?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

How much ?

I have to pay €25 for the ordinary flu vaccine.

 

[skeptic2]

There are so many unknowns it's difficult to answer a question like this. What if the virus mutates and becomes much more deadly. Will the existing vaccine still offer protection.

I understand vaccines typically take about 6 weeks to reach full potency. What will the H1N1 situation be in 6 weeks?

My 12 yo daughter contracted the flu about 2 weeks ago. The doctor said since it was too early for the regular flu season she assumed all flu right now was the swine flu. My daughter was better in one day.

It would seem that in order to stop the flu from spreading, each infected person would on the average be able to infect less than one other person. If the probability of infecting someone you come in contact with is 0.4 and you come in contact with 5 other people, you potentially could infect 2 other people. However, if over 50% of the population were immune either by vaccination or by previous exposure, it's likely the flu wouldn't be able to spread.

 

[GeorginaS]

H1N1 shot is the one I had last night. It's entirely free, here, with loads of clinics available. The wait-times are still up to 5 hours at some clinics. I lucked out with no wait-time last night.

Lots of muscle aches today and a very sore arm. I think I'll live.

 

[NeoDevin]

I work (study) in a cancer facility, so mine are free, and I hardly have to wait in line at all.

 

[Sorry!]

Flu shots are free here too... Just a pretty long wait time like 7 hours for some people and at the moment they are only giving the vaccination to those who are at greatest risk. Next week they will move ahead allowing more people. I don't think there is anywhere in Ontario that doesn't have access to the vaccination and there is enough vaccination for every person in the province to be vaccinated. They are also opening up extra clinics and keeping them open later and the hospitals/clinics are also doing their part in dealing with flu patients.

I find it incredible that areas in the USA apparently have no access to the vaccination...

 

[lisab]

Why is it so hard to get a single answer to my question?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

How much ?

I've never had to pay for a flu vaccine, my work gives them free.

 

[NeoDevin]

I find it incredible that areas in the USA apparently have no access to the vaccination...

It's that "world leading" health care system they have.

 

[Evo]

It's a shame that so many people have to go out of their way to get the vaccine and pay for it. I only started getting the vaccine because it's free and they come to our office an give them to us and I also got a bag full of great gifts.

 

[DaveC426913]

I also got a bag full of great gifts.

Hm. I think I could be bribed into getting a shot if they plied me with chocolate and toys...

 

[rootX]

@Ontario:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5j__YCUUWjWBvmmVjg0VP5K0o4kgA

I don't know how much these vaccines cost but meeting with the demand looks like a tough job.

 

[drankin]

I've never gotten a flu shot. Actually, I don't remember the last time I was sick. At least not in a way that wasn't self inflicted. Someone else can have my shot.

 

[Sorry!]

@Ontario:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5j__YCUUWjWBvmmVjg0VP5K0o4kgA

I don't know how much these vaccines cost but meeting with the demand looks like a tough job.

Hmm the Minister of health for Ontario said we already have enough vaccine to allow everyone in the province to get vaccinated as well Ontario is one full week ahead of schedule... Obviously there will be huge line ups to get vaccinated though.

 

[NeoDevin]

Hmm the Minister of health for Ontario said we already have enough vaccine to allow everyone in the province to get vaccinated as well Ontario is one full week ahead of schedule... Obviously there will be huge line ups to get vaccinated though.

The problem isn't supply of the vaccine, it's enough workers to meet the demand.

 

[Sorry!]

The problem isn't supply of the vaccine, it's enough workers to meet the demand.

Well yeah who wouldn't expect there to be long line ups and a waiting time to get the vaccine? Would people rather it get mailed to their house... would love to see the outcome of that.

In that article it compares what's going on here to a third world nation. That's probably one of the most rediculous statements I've ever seen... this person should go live in a developing nation for a week... of their choice. They can even live in the city if they like; the ignorance of some people.

 

[NeoDevin]

I'm sending my wife and son off to wait in those line-ups (they are similar in Alberta) tomorrow morning. I only had to wait in line for about 5 minutes for mine, there are perks for going to school at the Cross Cancer Institute.

 

[rootX]

The problem isn't supply of the vaccine, it's enough workers to meet the demand.

I was thinking of something like vending machines .. but I guess it is hard to make anything work efficiently in this case.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictures/8332597.stm

 

[rootX]

Hmm the Minister of health for Ontario said we already have enough vaccine to allow everyone in the province to get vaccinated as well Ontario is one full week ahead of schedule... Obviously there will be huge line ups to get vaccinated though.

http://www.reuters.com/article/companyNewsAndPR/idUSN2938021620091030

 

[NeoDevin]

How hard could it be to self-administer a vaccination? The only problem then would be how to deal with those rare few who have a serious reaction.

 

[Sorry!]

http://www.reuters.com/article/companyNewsAndPR/idUSN2938021620091030

Makes you wonder what's really going on around town. lol. Thanks for the articles.

And self-administered vaccinations would be interesting. My mom has self-administered needles but they are specially designed that even a monkey could do it. Even then she needed to go through some course as well a nurse had to come into our house the first time to show her properly how to do it.

I remembered in biology we learned about technologies that would enable this to be possible...

++ http://www.bio-medicine.org/biology-technology-1/NIH-Funds-Vaccine-Research-for-Needle-free-and-Self-Administered-Protection-Against-Pandemic-Influenza-3270-1/I also recall my sister needing a vaccination of some sort. My dad had to buy it from the pharmacy and bring it to our family doctor for him to inject her with it. Would it have been dangerous for us to do it at home?

... I personally wouldn't want to give everyone in our country a virus. Since the vaccinations right now require an injection it takes quite a bit so if some people grouped together their vaccinations bam large quantities of the virus no?

 

[Alfi]

Why is it so hard to get a single answer to my question?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

How much ?

My apologies. When I re-read that, it sounds very harsh. It was not meant to be.

 

[GeorginaS]

My apologies. When I re-read that, it sounds very harsh. It was not meant to be.

Sorry Alfi, but I have no clue. That's why I mentioned it's free here, in Canada, not because I'm bragging but because that's the reason I don't have any information. Where are you at that it's going to cost you?

 

[OmCheeto]

It may be the case that the Swine flu is overall as deadly as ordinary flu and quite a but milder that ordinary flu in most cases. But then the statistics also show that 30% of the people that died from it were young and healthy. That's definitely not what happens in case of ordinary flu.

It appears not to be true for this strain:

Total deaths: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_flu_pandemic_by_country"
Ped deaths: http://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/index.htm#MS"

roughly 14%

And a report last month showed that a majority of the children who died were not healthy.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5834a1.htm" had one or more of the high-risk medical conditions.

Though they did say the following:

All children aged ≥6 months and caregivers of children aged <6 months should receive influenza A (H1N1) 2009 monovalent vaccine when available.

The CDC says that around http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/vaccination/vaccinesupply.htm" have been shipped so far, or about enough for 1 in 20.

 

[JasonRox]

I got the vaccine shot three times yesterday. I went to 3 clinics. I figured I play it safe and get it 3 times.

 

[Pagan Harpoon]

I reckon the chances of my getting swine flu are close to 0%. I reckon if I get swine flu, the chances of me dying from it are still close to 0%. The chance of me dying from swine flu (almost 0%)², that is very very unlikely.

 

[Sorry!]

I reckon the chances of my getting swine flu are close to 0%. I reckon if I get swine flu, the chances of me dying from it are still close to 0%. The chance of me dying from swine flu (almost 0%)², that is very very unlikely.

Great conclusion mate.

 

[DaveC426913]

I reckon the chances of my getting swine flu are close to 0%. I reckon if I get swine flu, the chances of me dying from it are still close to 0%. The chance of me dying from swine flu (almost 0%)², that is very very unlikely.

I'll bet that perfectly healthy 13 year old boy had the exact same logic.

 

[Pagan Harpoon]

I am not familiar with the 13 year old boy story, but I think I can guess the significant part. If he had thought about it, then yes, he probably would have had the same logic - and it remains perfectly sound logic, regardless of the fact that he died (I presume). There are any number of extremely low probability possibilities that result in my death that could easily be eliminated. For example, I might get shot such that I would have survived if I had had a small metal shield in my shirt pocket. I don't doubt that lots of people have died in such a manner.

 

[Pagan Harpoon]

I think that's unfair. If nobody disagrees that the odds of my dying from swine flu are extremely low indeed... ridiculously low, then why should I give any special status to that potential death over all of the other very unlikely ones?

 

[Sorry!]

I think that's unfair. If nobody disagrees that the odds of my dying from swine flu are extremely low indeed... ridiculously low, then why should I give any special status to that potential death over all of the other very unlikely ones?

Because this one effects other people around you not just yourself.

 

[Pagan Harpoon]

I think the almost 0% chance of my getting it is sufficiently close to 0% for me to disregard it completely, even putting aside the fact that my life would still be in almost no danger if I were infected. By this I mean that for my not being vaccinated to affect people around me, I would first need to be infected and that is itself very unlikely... very very unlikely. If you judge it to be sufficiently likely to warrant getting vaccinated for the greater good, then go ahead, but calling me an idiot is unfair.

In addition to this... surely, it is the responsibility of the people who might be at risk of dying from it to have themselves vaccinated and not rely on other people vaccinating themselves to avoid transmitting it to them?