Made in China? Danger Throw it away

[Evo]

Yahoo News reported that steamed buns in Beijing include cardboard.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070712/ap_on_re_as/china_cardboard_buns

This is extremely unhealthy, right? And by what the article describes, is too common for comfort.

Why can't China nail this down?

I wouldn't call cardboard as a filler unhealthy, perhaps the conditions in which it is served is unhealthy, I just don't think cardboard is very nutritious.

 

[Werg22]

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On a more serious note, the level of manufacturing in China is abysmal. Their whole quantity over quality approach has spread from their military ideology textbooks to their factories. Right now, I'm wondering whether that package of Tilapia (the best tasting fish in the entire world) sitting in the freezer is safe to eat, and whether that reddish tint in the fish is industrial dye.

I'm sorry, but quality over quantity is a very important point of the Art of War.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

I wouldn't call cardboard as a filler unhealthy, perhaps the conditions in which it is served is unhealthy, I just don't think cardboard is very nutritious.

oh man I and love BBQ pork buns!

 

[cronxeh]

China To Execute Chief Food Inspector
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/05/29/health/main2860989.shtml

well at least the Chinese justice is ahead of the whole world

swift and decisive, and the next guy will probably think twice too

 

[Mallignamius]

Whoops.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070719/ap_on_re_as/china_cardboard_buns

BEIJING - A freelance reporter for a Beijing television station has been detained for faking a hidden camera report about street vendors who used chemical-soaked cardboard to fill meat buns, local media said.

His bad.

 

[mgb_phys]

Thats a shame - i was just thinking that adding cardboard to burger buns would be a good way of incrasing fibre and reducing calories.
Cardboard is probably better for you than the average fast-food burger bun!

The other scare stories also happen in other countries. Austria got caught adding glycol to it's wine, and this is one of the richest most developed countries in the world. Of course 10years later no one will still buy austrian wine - which isn't really an option with china.

Some of the official responses look a lot like political band wagon jumping - many American food products are banned in the EU, the beef contains growth hormones and he soy/wheat is genetically modified. Is this real concern for public health or a stealth trade war?

 

[Evo]

Fisher-Price Recalls Toys

Nearly Million Toys Recalled Because Of Concerns Over Lead Paint

Toy-maker Fisher-Price is recalling 83 types of toys - including the popular Big Bird, Elmo, Dora and Diego characters - because their paint contains excessive amounts of lead.
The worldwide recall being announced Thursday involves 967,000 plastic preschool toys made by a Chinese vendor and sold in the United States between May and August. It is the latest in a wave of recalls that has heightened global concern about the safety of Chinese-made products.

http://www.thekansascitychannel.com/news/13801539/detail.html?treets=kc1&tml=kc1_natlbreak&ts=T&tmi=kc1_natlbreak_1_06430108012007

 

[Evo]

Nearly Million Toys Recalled Because Of Concerns Over Lead Paint



http://www.thekansascitychannel.com/news/13801539/detail.html?treets=kc1&tml=kc1_natlbreak&ts=T&tmi=kc1_natlbreak_1_06430108012007

I don't know how many of you saw the expose the other night on Chinese counterfeit pharmaceuticals. These include blood pressure medicines that were found to have no active ingredients. Most drugs were made of drywall plaster. Some drugs coming in from South America were even more dangerous, they were drywall coated with lead based street paint.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

well at least the Chinese justice is ahead of the whole world

swift and decisive, and the next guy will probably think twice too

Yes swift and decisive and rids you of that expensive need to at least attempt to reform people, it's better than the US's system which is democratic and therefore even more expensive, appeal after appeal. It actually makes some weird sense over there, but I can't say I really approve of such harsh measures, especially under "communism", but perhaps I don't understand their legal system well enough to judge? It's an interesting question: is the death penalty working in China? Probably something for another day...

 

[matthyaouw]

I also recommend being very hesitant about drinking tea from China. Here is a paragraph from an article by NPR.



Here is the article.

I have two huge jars of the nicest chinese tea I've ever tasted and now I'm afraid to drink it It is straight from China, brought by a relative so there's no chance of it being screened on the way into the country.

Does anyone know if there's a cheap way to test for lead content?

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

America is quite wary of the gradual Chinese rise to economic prosperity, it's understandable, but you do also have to ask if there isn't some underlying prejudice there, understandable prejudice, obviously the US has had a long history of dealing with Communist states, but prejudice none the less.

I mean you have to ask if a lot of the questions and perhaps slander/liable is based in the verifiable, or it's kneejerk suspicion? Hell though I'm suspicious of China, but perhaps at the same time pleased to see them integrating with the world in a way that gels with our more democratic approach. They will become an economic superpower that is something I think we need to get used to, and hopefully the benefit of a strong trading partner will be mutual. Hehe I can question the quality of their goods, perhaps they aren't great, but then they are a developing nation, would we expect their luxuries to be of the highest standard enjoyed by the West? Will their goods meet a higher standard when they have the infrastructure in place that we do?

Another question I would proffer is: is China moving towards democracy, is there a will to do so? Or is this only economic change and not a social change, have they seen the benefits the West enjoys and like Russia become enamoured with democracy under a very lack lustre system, or is this just cynical capitalist exploitation and are they still committed to the ideals of communism, under a facade of economic interest? As ironic as non-self sufficiency sounds considering to be self sufficient is a facet of communism.

 

[hypatia]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/08/01/toy.recall.ap/index.html

Fisher-Price recall.

The worldwide recall being announced Thursday involves 967,000 plastic preschool toys made by a Chinese vendor and sold in the United States between May and August. It is the latest in a wave of recalls that has heightened global concern about the safety of Chinese-made products.

 

[Evo]

America is quite wary of the gradual Chinese rise to economic prosperity, it's understandable, but you do also have to ask if there isn't some underlying prejudice there, understandable prejudice, obviously the US has had a long history of dealing with Communist states, but prejudice none the less.

Did you miss my posts about the new Fisher Price lead painted toy recall and the counterfiet drugs?

This isn't prejudice, this is real and it's dangerous.

I don't know how many of you saw the expose the other night on Chinese counterfeit pharmaceuticals. These include blood pressure medicines that were found to have no active ingredients. Most drugs were made of drywall plaster.

These counterfeit drugs are showing up at some of the top nationwide neighborhood pharamcies.

According to federal prosecutors, Julio Cruz, a convicted cocaine smuggler, was one of the ring-leaders in the group that made that fake Lipitor and sold it to drug stores and mail-order pharmacies throughout the United States.

And where are the bogus medicine being made? Graham showed us some examples: One was in a cave in China, where those pills in the teddy bears were made. We also saw pictures of a counterfeiting operation in Columbia, making both prescription and non-prescription bogus medicines— complete with yellow road paint as one the ingredients.

Graham: They use cement. [They use] the lead-based highway paint they used to provide the coloring.

Hansen: So in this case it’s not only counterfeit, but it’s dangerous.

Graham: Incredibly dangerous. Boric acid will cause renal failure in humans.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/13099555/

 

[edward]

This whole "made in China" situation is getting out of hand.

June 10, 2007: The chinese pharmaceutical industry has cornered a major share of the world market in the production of antibiotics, analgesics, enzymes, and primary amino acids besides the bulk of vitamins A, B12, C and E flooring most of the competitors in these segments in recent years, according to reports.

Currently, China makes 70 percent of the world's penicillin, 50 percent of its aspirin and 35 percent of its acetaminophen (paracetamol.)

http://www.dancewithshadows.com/pharma2/china-antibiotics.asp

 

[Ivan Seeking]

This is whole "made in China" situation is getting out of hand.

Getting...?

First we were sold out for slave labor, now our kids and pets are being poisoned. The problem isn't the Chinese, it's corporate America [strike that. The problem is our government which refuses to level the playing field]. The Chinese are just doing things the way they have always done things, which is one reason why they are so competitive. It's easy to be competitive when you don't have any regulations.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

Yada yada yada, China is evil, yada yada yada, they eat dogs, yada yada yada, you guys are nothing if not predictable. It's just fear, fear breeds contempt. Let's all get some perspective. They are going to be the largest economy in the world some day, you can either get with the program, like your entrepreneurs, or you can dig a hole and hide.

I'm not saying you don't have legitimate concerns, just asking you to be careful not to take them too far. Do you not get weary of your media over hyping things, panic! We're all going to die! Know what I mean.

Americans complaining about unregulated capitalism, seems a bit odd, whatever next free trade??

 

[ranger]

Lou Dobbs [Tonight; cnn] is pretty straight forward about his views on the importing thing. I love it when he calls whoever is responsible for this (setting standards, inspection, etc) a bunch of idiots - he asked "who is the idiot, group (?) of idiots, or agency of idiots..." I love it when he calls the Bush administration incompetent.

 

[rockytriton]

looks like I will be throwing away a lot of my two kids toys because they contain lead paint. I thought we got rid of this kind of crap years ago!

I'm not one for bashing china or anything, hell I speak mandarin chinese pretty well, but come on, we need to have some way of solving this... No wonder its so much cheaper for companies to get their products made in other countries, they can get around our quality and safety standards doing so.

 

[Evo]

Yada yada yada, China is evil, yada yada yada, they eat dogs, yada yada yada, you guys are nothing if not predictable. It's just fear, fear breeds contempt. Let's all get some perspective. They are going to be the largest economy in the world some day, you can either get with the program, like your entrepreneurs, or you can dig a hole and hide.

I'm not saying you don't have legitimate concerns, just asking you to be careful not to take them too far. Do you not get weary of your media over hyping things, panic! We're all going to die! Know what I mean.

Americans complaining about unregulated capitalism, seems a bit odd, whatever next free trade??

It's not about competition, it's about dangerous, illegal, and counterfeit products.

Lou Dobbs [Tonight; cnn] is pretty straight forward about his views on the importing thing. I love it when he calls whoever is responsible for this (setting standards, inspection, etc) a bunch of idiots - he asked "who is the idiot, group (?) of idiots, or agency of idiots..." I love it when he calls the Bush administration incompetent.

People have no idea how impossible it would be to run a chemical analysis on every shipment that comes into this country. We have laws and requirements, there is no way that every shipment can be tested and unscrupulous people know this. Right now there just seems to be a lot of illegal shipments coming from China.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

After reading three pages of this thread I'm not sure that is all it is. I detect an undercurrent of competition nerves. I think the US is genuinely worried it's going to lose it's top dog status to a bigger country, I think the high coverage of shoddy Chinese products is just a symptom of the increasing concern, I mean let's face it Chinese products have always been crap, but they haven't always been big news. When I was a lad it was made in Hong Kong meant that it would fall apart at the first use.

Don't worry you are going to become number two economically, ahh we had the number 1 spot once, enjoy it while it lasts, it's a changing planet actually I'm kinda glad we lost it, we were right arrogant nutters with it.

 

[Evo]

We're talking about poison, not commerce or function.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

I'm just saying read the thread and tell me there isn't an underlying hostility building, do you think that is solely based on concern about Chinese products quality? I find that hard to believe considering they have had a rep for producing tat for decades. Perhaps I'm way off the mark, perhaps I'm just making speculative claims? I just wanted to highlight that the threads general tone gave me some concern.

 

[turbo]

You can read "competition nerves" into this if you want to really stretch it, but our own marketing "geniuses" in the US have outsourced production of many vital and not-too-vital products to China, where product-quality and health issues are ignored, and where pirating and the production of fakes is rampant. Look at the lead issue. Lead oxide is used in paint to provide brightness and opacity, so thinner coats of paint can be used. In the US-made paints, these characteristics are obtained by the introduction of titanium dioxide, which is many times more expensive than lead oxide. Chinese manufacturers cut material costs any way they can, and they don't have reasonable regulations to prevent them from cutting costs by introducing toxins into their products. Fisher-Price is now recalling 1.5M toys because word got out about the lead in the paint. It would be really instructive to know how long the folks at F-P knew about the lead. Surely, they have quality-control folks who can randomly test a few products now and again and catch this stuff.

 

[ranger]

People have no idea how impossible it would be to run a chemical analysis on every shipment that comes into this country. We have laws and requirements, there is no way that every shipment can be tested and unscrupulous people know this. Right now there just seems to be a lot of illegal shipments coming from China.

Of course it will be impossible to track every shipment that comes in. But who are the ones that allowed this to become so overwhelming? As far as I can tell, we'd always use the above as an excuse and never do anything about it. Its good to live in a state of denial. If we have such laws and regulations, why aren't they in effect? Oh, I forgot its impossible. So then why have them?

 

[Evo]

Of course it will be impossible to track every shipment that comes in. But who are the ones that allowed this to become so overwhelming? As far as I can tell, we'd always use the above as an excuse and never do anything about it. Its good to live in a state of denial. If we have such laws and regulations, why aren't they in effect? Oh, I forgot its impossible. So then why have them?

The laws are in effect and a lot of shipments are seized, you just don't hear about it. I previously posted the customs regulations which explains how companies become certified to import into the US.

 

[Moonbear]

I'm just saying read the thread and tell me there isn't an underlying hostility building, do you think that is solely based on concern about Chinese products quality? I find that hard to believe considering they have had a rep for producing tat for decades. Perhaps I'm way off the mark, perhaps I'm just making speculative claims? I just wanted to highlight that the threads general tone gave me some concern.

I think people have known for a long time that they produce cheap quality items, and haven't really been overly concerned when it was some gadget that broke after 6 months of use instead of 6 years as long as it was cheap. What is happening recently isn't about that, it's about unsafe, unhealthy, and flat out dangerous products being discovered in large quantities entering our market and our homes and putting us, our children and our pets in danger. This is the rising concern, that they are getting away with selling products here that do not meet our safety standards, and it's not just a few manufacturers or products, but a whole slew of them. People are just starting to become aware of how serious the problem is.

 

[turbo]

One thing that troubles me, Moonie, is that lead-testing kits are CHEAP! Can you believe that Fisher-Price ordered painted toys from China and didn't spot-check them to make sure they were free of lead? I find it hard to believe that someone from F-P wasn't aware of the lead issue with these toys before the recall, though if that could be proven, criminal charges should be filed.

 

[Evo]

One thing that troubles me, Moonie, is that lead-testing kits are CHEAP! Can you believe that Fisher-Price ordered painted toys from China and didn't spot-check them to make sure they were free of lead? I find it hard to believe that someone from F-P wasn't aware of the lead issue with these toys before the recall, though if that could be proven, criminal charges should be filed.

The lead based paint was identified by Fisher Price internal quality control and they contacted the authorities and FP initiated the recall.

In an interview with The Associated Press on Wednesday, David Allmark, general manager of Fisher-Price, said the problem was detected by an internal probe and reported to the Consumer Product Safety Commission. The recall is particularly alarming since Mattel, known for its strict quality controls, is considered a role model in the toy industry for how it operates in China.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/08/01/toy.recall.ap/index.html

 

[turbo]

The lead based paint was identified by Fisher Price internal quality control and they contacted the authorities and FP initiated the recall.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/08/01/toy.recall.ap/index.html

Thanks, Evo. I was disturbed by the way the story came out. FP and the government should not have embargoed the story, but should have alerted customers with full details of affected products and lot numbers, etc, because apparently some of these toys had already hit the shelves. Apparently honest prompt disclosure is not in Mattel's business plan and the government accepted that condition in "negotiating" what should have been treated as a mandatory involuntary recall anyway.

 

[Evo]

Thanks, Evo. I was disturbed by the way the story came out. FP and the government should not have embargoed the story, but should have alerted customers with full details of affected products and lot numbers, etc, because apparently some of these toys had already hit the shelves. Apparently honest prompt disclosure is not in Mattel's business plan and the government accepted that condition in "negotiating" what should have been treated as a mandatory involuntary recall anyway.

It looks like they wanted a day to set up a recall hotline and get the toys off the store shelves. It's not as if the toys pose an immediate danger and a 24 hour time frame to announce the recall doesn't seem unreasonable to me. It's not like e-coli infected food where time is of the essence.

 

[edward]

There is no excuse for FP not to have been checking the lead content all along. It is certainly easy enough to do. I think FP is now a division of Mattel. Lead in products from China has been a regular occurance for years.

Here is a link to a crayon recall from 1994. At that time they were probably manufactured in Taiwan.

http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml94/94055.html

Not all Chinese products are junk, a U.S. company usually gets the quality they order. Most of our small appliances and hand tools are now made in China. I recently bought a bathroom vanity with a granite top from Lowes. It was made in China.

 

[edward]

Here is a link to the Fisher Price recall with pictures and a description of each item. The suspect toys have been sold since May 1st.

http://service.mattel.com/us/recall/39054_IVR.asp?prod=

 

[turbo]

Thanks, Edward. When a Fisher-Price press release says that they recalled the toys before 2/3 of the toys got to store shelves, we should understand that of the entire production run, the entire first shipment to retailers DID hit the shelves and that the recall stopped the last 2/3 of the production run from being delivered as follow-on orders as the first ones sold out. F-P should have known (with just minimal testing) that the toys contained unacceptable levels of lead 3 months ago.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Yada yada yada, China is evil, yada yada yada, they eat dogs, yada yada yada, you guys are nothing if not predictable. It's just fear, fear breeds contempt. Let's all get some perspective. They are going to be the largest economy in the world some day, you can either get with the program, like your entrepreneurs, or you can dig a hole and hide.

I'm not saying you don't have legitimate concerns, just asking you to be careful not to take them too far. Do you not get weary of your media over hyping things, panic! We're all going to die! Know what I mean.

Americans complaining about unregulated capitalism, seems a bit odd, whatever next free trade??

The problem is that the Chinese don't have to honor US laws wrt safety, fair wage, pollution and emissions controls, materials safety, etc., nor do the smoke belching, coal fired power plants that power the Chinese factories; nor do the Chinese companies that are surely strip mining vast regions of China in order to supply their explosion of coal fired plants; nor do the coal and other raw materials processing plants; nor the companies making the mining equipment, etc, etc, etc.

We don’t have unregulated capitalism in this country, and for good reason. Instead we try to find a balance between the pubic interest, and the bottom line for industry. But in the interest of the share holder, or in the interest of importing cheap and dangerous products rather than buying US made, the corporations are in effect bypassing our laws and regulation of industry by going to China and other countries.

Would you support eliminating all controls on industry wrt safety, wage, environmental controls, public liability and the rest, worldwide, in order to allow US based and other manufacturers to compete with those based in China and other developing nations? This would be a free market – no controls, or comparatively few, just like the competition.

If we are to live in a global economy then we all have to play by the same rules. And as did we, the Chinese will have to come to terms with safety issues, quality controls, pollution laws and the rest, but this will only happen with time. As this happens and the playing field is leveled a bit, U.S. based industry will have a better chance to compete. However, in the mean time, I don’t care to be considered an expendable beta test for the success of the Chinese social and economic revolution. If they won’t test their products and regulate industry according to our standards, then we should impose the appropriate price increase for regular testing here in order to insure that the products meet US safety standards. And until the Chinese agree to meet US air and water quality standards, we should impose the applicable pollution taxes on imported products as well.

On a related note, when I call tech support for my Direct TV, Windows, or even some industrial products, I would like to speak with someone who actually knows and can speak English. The outsourcing of tech support to people who can't even communicate with the customer about the crap products that either don't work as claimed, or that one can't tell because the manual is in some hybrid language that only vaguely resembles English, has pesonally cost me a great deal of money in lost time.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

Evo linked how the Chinese govt were introducing new safety laws. At least people have stopped with the China bashing, to be frank it sounded like a load of women running around panicking, least that's the impression I got: no offence .

Expecting a developing nation to have the same standards as a Western one, in what for it is new markets is entirely naive, give it time.

Oh and you can rebuke China for their output but they're just larger than yours were when you were developing because they have a higher population, no one told you to stop polluting in the industrial revolution of the 19th century did they? I think that's Kyoto mentality, it would be hypocritical to expect developing nations to leap frog the evolution towards development and be clean from the get go.In fact to expect a country to suddenly develop cleanly and safely over night is totally unrealistic. You might want to take a look at your own governmental policies on the environment over the last six years before you start throwing stones around as well.