Made in China? Danger Throw it away

[turbo]

Evo linked how the Chinese govt were introducing new safety laws. At least people have stopped with the China bashing, to be frank it sounded like a load of women running around panicking, least that's the impression I got: no offence .

Expecting a developing nation to have the same standards as a Western one, in what for it is new markets is entirely naive, give it time.

Oh and you can rebuke China for their output but they're just larger than yours were when you were developing because they have a higher population, no one told you to stop polluting in the industrial revolution of the 19th century did they? I think that's Kyoto mentality, it would be hypocritical to expect developing nations to leap frog the evolution towards development and be clean from the get go.In fact to expect a country to suddenly develop cleanly and safely over night is totally unrealistic. You might want to take a look at your own governmental policies on the environment over the last six years before you start throwing stones around as well.

This thread is not about how the bad Chinese people are polluting the environment. It is about the deliberate adulteration/poisoning of products for financial gain. If you substitute ethylene glycol for glycerin in toothpaste or cough syrup, people will be sickened and/or die (many died in Panama last year from poisoned cough syrup.) If you substitute lead carbonate for titanium dioxide in paint, or you substitute lead for more expensive alloys in children's jewelry or toys, you will increase the load of lead in the bodies of our children. These are not accidents, nor are they evidence of laxity on the part of the manufacturers. The manufactures making the paint, toothpaste, cough syrup, etc, deliberately adulterate the products with cheaper ingredients that they know are harmful, because they make more money that way. Lead carbonate and ethylene glycol are WAY cheaper than titanium dioxide and glycerin. Chinese manufacturers are not ignorant - they are deliberately putting harmful ingredients in their products because they can produce the products more cheaply, get bigger orders, and make more money. Right now, there is no practical way to stop them from continuing these practices, apart from we (as consumers) educating ourselves and refusing to buy products from China that may be problematic.

(Edited name of lead compound to most likely pigment.)

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

I've already noted you have legitimate concerns, but I question whether there is not some exaggeration going on, and I question your media. Like I question my own, although not to the same extent, I watch the BBC and Channel 4 and they don't generally let their personal biases cloud a good story. Although the BBC's coverage of Israel has raised some questions...

This is just a little hokey to me, suddenly China are poisoning our children, taking our business and well you know the rest. I'd personally like to see how this develops instead of making a knee jerk reaction. I'm a little leary of doing that, so should most people be. The media do not always devolve themselves from their own personal feelings. And neither do you I think, if it's what you want to believe.

You have a concern but it is as grave as sensationalism makes out? Or is it perhaps a little more biased than that?

Just asking questions, not everything you read in the papers is gospel.

I always look deeper than the surface these days, I've been fooled before.

 

[Evo]

I seriously am going to think twice about what products I will buy from China. I don't think I'll be buying anything I can ingest from there that's made exclusively for American consumption. I don't think they are poisoning the products meant from Chinese consumption, so buying goods from an oriental store here is probably safer than buying products labeled for and sold to American stores.

Unfortunately with the counterfiet brand name drugs, it's really frightening because you have no way of knowing, and in this case, what you don't know can kill you.

 

[Evo]

SD, did you hear about the Chinese melamine poisoning in the US recemtly? It was initially thought to be rat poison, but it turned out that the Chinese had intentionally added melamine to artificially raise the protein count. The problem is melamine is poisonous.

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=162174

 

[turbo]

I seriously am going to think twice about what products I will buy from China. I don't think I'll be buying anything I can ingest from there that's made exclusively for American consumption. I don't think they are poisoning the products meant from Chinese consumption, so buying goods from an oriental store here is probably safer than buying products labeled for and sold to American stores.

Unfortunately with the counterfiet brand name drugs, it's really frightening because you have no way of knowing, and in this case, what you don't know can kill you.

I posted earlier about some painted and glazed decorative porcelain serving trays, platters, etc that my wife bought for gifts for our nieces. Luckily the local business where she bought them took them back without complaint, and the clerk she spoke to said that there had been a lot of them returned as people started hearing about the lead issues in Chinese-made products and questioned the contents of the paint and glaze. We certainly didn't want our family members using those servers and possibly poison themselves and their friends and children.

 

[turbo]

Although Xinhua soft-peddles product quality issues (adulteration), they have reported that China has banned hair gel products containing excessive methanol. For those not in the know, methanol can easily enter the body through skin contact and can cause blindness, among other problems. For an idea how pervasive the "adulteration for profit" problem is in China, 8 different cosmetics companies were producing these adulterated products.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2007-08/03/content_6470431.htm

 

[Ivan Seeking]

This is just a little hokey to me, suddenly China are poisoning our children, taking our business and well you know the rest.

There is nothing sudden about it. It has been building for a long time, but finally, FINALLY, recents events are forcing everyone to confront the issue. This tends to happen when people [and our pets] start dying.

And if they have to cheat by poisoning products for human use, maybe they're not as competitive as most people believe them to be.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Oh and you can rebuke China for their output but they're just larger than yours were when you were developing because they have a higher population, no one told you to stop polluting in the industrial revolution of the 19th century did they? I think that's Kyoto mentality, it would be hypocritical to expect developing nations to leap frog the evolution towards development and be clean from the get go.In fact to expect a country to suddenly develop cleanly and safely over night is totally unrealistic.

You clearly have no understanding of what outsourcing has done the US manufacturing sector - it has been decimated. And the only reason this happened is unfair competition that results in polluted air and water, and poisoned products. The great lie about globalization is the difference between what's good for corporations, and what's in the public interest.

You might want to take a look at your own governmental policies on the environment over the last six years before you start throwing stones around as well.

Oh please, I doubt that any power plant or factory in China would even be allowed to operate here. There is no comparison.

 

[edward]

American companies who have production facilities in China are the frequent victims of intellectuall property theft. The Chinese government is of little help.

While counterfeit products are in markets throughout the world, business is particularly brisk in China, which is home to two-thirds of the world’s bogus and pirated goods. Last year alone, China confiscated 85 million counterfeit publications, from books and movies to computer discs. According to the Business Software Alliance, more than 90 percent of PCs in China are using pirated operating systems.

It’s little wonder why pirating goods, manufacturing knock-offs and violating intellectual property rights (IPR) is a winning strategy. It allows Chinese companies to skip the investment necessary to create and develop products and go directly to profits. No brand building. No advertising. No R&D headaches.

http://www.atkearney.com/main.taf?p=5,1,1,115,2


Their own very similar version of the IPhone hit the market the same week the American phone did.

http://timesonline.typepad.com/technology/2007/07/chinese-iphone-.html


They are making rip offs of everything from medications, to golf clubs, to automobiles.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/01/26/60minutes/main595875.shtml

 

[edward]

Here we go again. This time inspections had been ordered by the FDA.

At least 1 million pounds of suspect Chinese seafood landed on American store shelves and dinner plates despite a Food and Drug Administration order that the shipments first be screened for banned drugs or chemicals, an Associated Press investigation found.

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/08/07/ap3997232.html

 

[Evo]

It's really bad when so many importers from a single country are not meeting safety standards that the entire country is put on a watch list. Of course China is saying that it's illegal for the FDA to do this. The next problem is that the FDA doesn't have the manpower to do the testing.

I think the problems are serious enough that this should be a major campaign issue in the upcoming elections, we need someone that is going to take a strong stand on policing imports which is a real threat to public safety and focus less on moral and religious issues that really don't affect much aside from someone's personal beliefs.

 

[turbo]

Let's frame this in terms that the Chinese would certainly understand. They are making fortunes exporting unsafe products, and they are putting the cost of our protection on us. In other words, the US taxpayers are expected to pay for the privilege of trying to sample and test the imports to weed out the dangerous/poisonous ones. If the Chinese want free access to our markets, they should have to be subject to testing at the source, and they should be the ones who have to pay for the testing - to be done by certified labs using methods and equipment approved by the FDA, Underwriter's Laboratory, and others who certify US-made products as safe. There would be problems of graft/corruption/cheating, but the Chinese government knows that the loss of the US market would kill their economy, so they would gladly execute the cheaters that they catch. Let the Chinese bear the cost of getting their products tested and certified as safe - I'm sick of paying for a system that puts the cost of interdiction and testing on the US taxpayer.

We are playing a dangerous game by letting products into this country with no quality controls, and we are taxing our citizens to provide what is obviously an underfunded and understaffed screening process. In the process, we are damaging our domestic producers who have to bear the costs of certification and testing of their products, and adhere to reasonable standards of product safety. It's time to level the playing field.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

It was hard to see this one coming eh?

...Treasuries fell earlier on a report in the U.K.'s Daily Telegraph that China, the second-largest foreign holder of U.S. government debt with $407 billion, is prepared to sell its holdings in the event of U.S.-imposed trade sanctions. Japan owns $615 billion of Treasuries.

China suggested it will sell holdings of Treasuries should the U.S. impose trade sanctions to force a yuan revaluation, reported the Telegraph, citing He Fan, an official at the government-backed Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, and Xia Bin, director of the financial research department of the State Council, or cabinet. Calls by Bloomberg News to a press official at China's State Administration of Foreign Exchange weren't answered.

Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson said in an interview with CNBC that it would be ``absurd'' to think China would sell the bonds. [continued]

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=a7x6i6Rlu9pY&refer=news

So, our government sells us out for decades, and now the plan is to force us to accept potentially dangerous products, or whatever China says, because they hold the debt card. Of course the world can't afford to have the US economy collapse, so unless the Chinese are planning to dump the new Toyotas go back to rickshaws...

 

[turbo]

It was hard to see this one coming eh?

If you had your eyes closed and your fingers in your ears, yelling "nyaah, nyaah, nyaah" you might have missed the signs.

 

[FredGarvin]

Add another log to the fire:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070809/ap_on_re_us/tire_problems;_ylt=AjEwV6TfAi.PfsNEJfnmQs.s0NUE

NEWARK, N.J. - A tire importer said Thursday it would recall 255,000 Chinese-made tires it claims were defective because they lack a safety feature that prevents tread separation.

It seems like piling on, but this is another example of short cuts from Chinese manufacturers.

 

[mgb_phys]

Why are they recalling them? I thought standard procedure with faulty tires was;
1- deny any problem,
2- sue anyone who says there is a problem,
3 - argue about who is liable, if there was a problem which there isn't,
4- respond to class action suit with more advertising.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Quote approximate: "When I was growing up in Brooklyn, there was a myth that you could dig a hole that went all the way to China.
We're there." - Dennis Kucinich

 

[Ivan Seeking]

More Chinese toothpaste laced with antifreeze thickener recalled

INDIANAPOLIS — A chemical that thickens antifreeze has turned up again in a Chinese-made toothpaste, this time under a brand that serves luxury hotels around the world. [continued]

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070813/NEWS07/70813061/0/ENT04

Owner of Chinese Toy Factory Commits Suicide

SHANGHAI, Aug. 13 — The head of a Chinese company that was behind the recall this month of about a million Mattel toys committed suicide over the weekend, China’s state-controlled news media reported Monday. [continued]

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/14/business/worldbusiness/14toy.html?ref=business

 

[Ivan Seeking]

They just keep coming.

WASHINGTON - Toy-making giant Mattel Inc. issued recalls Tuesday for about 9 million Chinese-made toys that contain magnets that can be swallowed by children or could have lead paint. [continued]

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/08/14/ap4017912.html

 

[Moonbear]

If the Chinese want free access to our markets, they should have to be subject to testing at the source, and they should be the ones who have to pay for the testing - to be done by certified labs using methods and equipment approved by the FDA, Underwriter's Laboratory, and others who certify US-made products as safe.

Perhaps they need to start outsourcing their testing to the U.S. Let's see how competitive they really are when they aren't allowed to cheat and cut corners on safety. I agree that just like U.S. companies, they should have to bear the burden of cost of product QC testing and documentation, and be subject to inspection.

 

[Evo]

Perhaps they need to start outsourcing their testing to the U.S. Let's see how competitive they really are when they aren't allowed to cheat and cut corners on safety. I agree that just like U.S. companies, they should have to bear the burden of cost of product QC testing and documentation, and be subject to inspection.

The President of the toy company commited suicide the other day. It turns out the paint in question was supplied by a company owned by his best friend.

 

[JasonRox]

Evo linked how the Chinese govt were introducing new safety laws. At least people have stopped with the China bashing, to be frank it sounded like a load of women running around panicking, least that's the impression I got: no offence .

Expecting a developing nation to have the same standards as a Western one, in what for it is new markets is entirely naive, give it time.

Oh and you can rebuke China for their output but they're just larger than yours were when you were developing because they have a higher population, no one told you to stop polluting in the industrial revolution of the 19th century did they? I think that's Kyoto mentality, it would be hypocritical to expect developing nations to leap frog the evolution towards development and be clean from the get go.In fact to expect a country to suddenly develop cleanly and safely over night is totally unrealistic. You might want to take a look at your own governmental policies on the environment over the last six years before you start throwing stones around as well.

I totally agree! But then again, in America ignorance is bliss.

Also, be aware that some products from the US get recalled too. China just turned down lots of vegetables because it had excessive Selenium in it.

Obviously everyone hates China because they're taking away there hard earned jobs when we "deserve" everything.

As far as I see it, I see nothing that is stopping China from becoming the next economic super power.

 

[JasonRox]

The President of the toy company commited suicide the other day. It turns out the paint in question was supplied by a company owned by his best friend.

See corrupted things happen like that here too. But the difference is that you can't get away with it in China, which is why he shot himself.

The US has a corrupted government that's been getting away with it for years!

 

[JasonRox]

PS. My Chinese information comes from ACTUAL Chinese friends of which some are in China right now! Beware of what the media shows!

 

[turbo]

Perhaps they need to start outsourcing their testing to the U.S. Let's see how competitive they really are when they aren't allowed to cheat and cut corners on safety. I agree that just like U.S. companies, they should have to bear the burden of cost of product QC testing and documentation, and be subject to inspection.

I thought that this was probably the most reasonable and fair approach, but judging from the silence from DC, apparently our elected representatives are willing to put up with the status quo (US taxpayers pay inspectors to try to screen and interdict poison/unsafe products from cheaters).

When my cousin and his family moved to Australia years ago, they had to check their two golden retrievers into a quarantine facility and pay for months of boarding, testing and observation before the dogs were allowed into the country. He and his wife and daughter had to be separated from those sweet dogs for months and they bore the cost of the quarantine to keep Australia safe from disease. The Chinese exporters should be held to that standard - the products should be quarantined in China until they are properly safety-tested and certified safe by US standards, and the Chinese companies should pay the cost of the storage, testing and certification.

Like you, I wonder just how competitive the Chinese would be if they were forced to adhere to the same quality/safety standards as US manufacturers. I have a feeling that a lot of their advantage would disappear, and boil down to differences in labor costs, employee benefits (ha!), taxes, and shipping.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

As far as I see it, I see nothing that is stopping China from becoming the next economic super power.

They are becoming the next economic superpower, but they will have to learn about things like quality control, emissions standards, effluent clean-up, employee rights, and all of those nasty little laws that make it more difficult to manufacture in the U.S. And in fact China is afraid because this problem truly threatens their climb to power. That is why people are committing suicide and being executed. But, one must ask, why hasn't the Chinese government [excuse me, a Chinese company] EVER issued a voluntary recall throughout all of this; starting with the poison pet food? Why do we have to inspect each product in order to find any problem? The fact is that they have never had to play by any rules so they have a lot to learn. Not to mention that they are stealing more US technology and copyright protected material than we can even track. This too must stop. China has to learn how to stand on its own without constantly cheating.

If it wasn't for our own government selling us out for the sake of big business, China would have been in trouble long ago.

As Alvin Toffler pointed out, the first rule of predicting trends is that no trend remains a constant. China has been skyrocketing to success, so that is bound to change as they begin to pay the price for success.

Did you see that the Olympic committee is worried about holding events in Beijing? The pollution is so bad that it may make the extended competitions difficult and dangerous. This, as compared to the Los Angeles Olympics in 1984 [I was there], where the skies were crystal clear and blue. Although this was unusually good for LA, even the worst day in LA is better than the best day in Beijing.

Oh yes, and the long time favorite of government subsidized dumping designed to destroy the US competition has to stop as well. Again, given a level playing field, China will find the world very different from the one it knows.

 

[edward]

Hers is a link to Mattel corporate video, and their promise to do better by doing the inspections themselves. Uhh actually they will probably hire some Chinese guy.

http://www.mattel.com/safety/us/

 

[Evo]

Hers is a link to Mattel corporate video, and their promise to do better by doing the inspections themselves. Uhh actually they will probably hire some Chinese guy.

http://www.mattel.com/safety/us/

Watch for the price of toys to skyrocket.

With all of the added expense, will it still be cheaper to continue manufacturing in China? Is manufacturing in the US so outrageously overpriced?

Sadly, what it all boils down to is what has been driven into every American over the last 40 years, insist on lower prices. Business has responded to Americans buying cheaper products made abroad even if it means poorer quality. Maybe it's time to re-educate ourselves on why paying more for quality and safety makes sense.

 

[JasonRox]

They are becoming the next economic superpower, but they will have to learn about things like quality control, emissions standards, effluent clean-up, employee rights, and all of those nasty little laws that make it more difficult to manufacture in the U.S. And in fact China is afraid because this problem truly threatens their climb to power. That is why people are committing suicide and being executed. But, one must ask, why hasn't the Chinese government [excuse me, a Chinese company] EVER issued a voluntary recall throughout all of this; starting with the poison pet food? Why do we have to inspect each product in order to find any problem? The fact is that they have never had to play by any rules so they have a lot to learn. Not to mention that they are stealing more US technology and copyright protected material than we can even track. This too must stop. China has to learn how to stand on its own without constantly cheating.

If it wasn't for our own government selling us out for the sake of big business, China would have been in trouble long ago.

As Alvin Toffler pointed out, the first rule of predicting trends is that no trend remains a constant. China has been skyrocketing to success, so that is bound to change as they begin to pay the price for success.

Did you see that the Olympic committee is worried about holding events in Beijing? The pollution is so bad that it may make the extended competitions difficult and dangerous. This, as compared to the Los Angeles Olympics in 1984 [I was there], where the skies were crystal clear and blue. Although this was unusually good for LA, even the worst day in LA is better than the best day in Beijing.

Oh yes, and the long time favorite of government subsidized dumping designed to destroy the US competition has to stop as well. Again, given a level playing field, China will find the world very different from the one it knows.

The US sold out on Britain, so I don't know what you're talking about. Countries do this all the time.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

NEWARK, New Jersey (AP) -- Toys "R" Us Inc. on Friday said it was removing all vinyl baby bibs from its Toys "R" Us and Babies "R" Us stores as a precaution after two bibs made in China for one supplier showed lead levels that exceeded Toys "R" Us standards[continued]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/08/17/tainted.bibs.ap/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

 

[turbo]

I am awaiting the arrival of a lead-test kit. $35 including shipping for 24 tests. We have decorative containers and dishes bought over the years that may in fact be unsafe to use for food, and we want to know for sure.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I was thinking that it might be interesting to start randomly checking Chinese made products for lead.

I saw a report the other night that claims that 80% of Chinese citizens don't trust the safety of food in China.

Tsu works with a guy who has lived in Taiwan for years and is soon returning. He just discovered that he has lead poisoning.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Wal-Mart: Melamine Found in Dog Treats

LITTLE ROCK, Ark. - Tests of two Chinese brands of dog treats sold at Wal-Mart stores found traces of melamine, a chemical agent that led to another massive pet food recall in March, a spokeswoman said Tuesday. [continued]

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/08/21/ap4042092.html

HONG KONG, China (Reuters) -- A U.S.-based workers' rights group said it found "brutal conditions" and labor violations at eight Chinese plants that make toys for big multinationals, and called on the companies to take steps for better standards.

China Labor Watch said in a report issued on Tuesday after several months of investigation that the manufacturers -- which served a handful of global players, including Walt Disney, Bandai and Hasbro -- paid "little heed to the most basic standards of the country."

"Wages are low, benefits are nonexistent, work environments are dangerous and living conditions are humiliating," it said.[continued]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/08/21/china.toys.reut/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

 

[edward]

China Blue

This originally aired on PBS in May.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7722357401716915348

 

[Ivan Seeking]

More batches of Chinese-made toys are being recalled because of excessive lead content.

The recalled items include SpongeBob SquarePants journals and address books as well as Thomas and Friends and Curious George spinning tops and toy pails.[continued]

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2007/08/toy_recalls.html

BEIJING (Reuters) - A Beijing factory sold up to 100,000 pairs of disposable chopsticks a day without any form of disinfection, a newspaper said on Wednesday, the latest in a string of food and product safety scares.[continued]

http://www.reuters.com/article/topN...c=082207_1024_DOUBLEFEATURE_dean_targets_gulf