Male-Female Strength/Wrestling Question

[DanP]

If I'm understanding this correctly, then your point would be that Soccor, in its activity level and intermittant nature is really very similar to an intensity graph for something like wrestling.

It's similar and they fall in the same big category of sports with variable motor regimen, but not identical, competitional calendar is very different, energy systems are involved in different ratios, power requirements different, and hence they require different programing of training.

In that case, and given your last statement, do you mean that given the same technique, the one with more capacity to impart maximum power+accuracy = winner?

Not automatically, but given hypothetical equal technical ability you say , it is a great advantage.

And it's important not speak of maximum power alone, but maximum power in a specific bio-energetic regime. It has no use to be able to develop a lot of power but fall flat on your back out of gas after 2 mins for example, or suffer a tremendous drop in power output after the same time.

If you want to see how much physical preparedness counts, IMO a good example is to watch the fight between George StPierre vs BJ Penn , it was at UFC 94 IIRC.
Penn is a very accomplished BJJ fighter, with pretty awesome technique, but in this fight GSP simply passes his guard at will. Pay attention at how GSP does it, how fast can he develop force, and how explosive he remained for the whole duration of the fight. He was utterly dominant and he can thank this in big part to his physical preparedness.

 

[FizixFreak]

We don't believe that.

1.) I don't believe in "creation".
2.) Equality doesn't exist except as a goal we should hold among many.
3.) It doesn't take an EXCEPTIONALLy talented woman... most guys can't fight or wrestle to save their lives... literally. Most women can't either, but they tend to be more aware of that.
4.) If you doubt all of this, I suggest you come to the USA and challenge some female police officers to a friendly grapple. I'll pay for your hospital expenses, and bruised ego.

I'd just add, you sound like a tired comic with jaundice and a scotch, telling material from the '50s in some honkey tonk. If that's your sense of humor, I'd seriously recommend that you not put it forward as one of you best qualities. A joke needs to be funny to work, and edgy jokes require that you not clearly be ignorant of the basic facts.

Don't take this personally or as an insult, because it's not how I mean it... you strike me as somewhat awkward and young... no crime there. I'm simply pointing out that until you start cracking wise about periods, you should probably not sound like it's your way of whistling in the dark. If you really, truly believe what you're saying, I have a tiny female friend who is merely fit... she would destroy you unless you're hiding immense depths that I'm missing.

As far as taking on female police officers i will not be very comfortable taking on a women cause i never done it before but if do agree to that i think i will do just ok cause i have done some stand up grappling but who knows they might just put me on my a**.

By the way i am not that young and you probably find me awkward cause of the lame jokes well it is hard to crack jokes in a language you are not accustomed to and no i don't take such things personally which are coming out of the keyboard of a guy whom i don't even know.

And why did you assume that you little female friend who is not even fit(according to you) will "destroy" me now that was a premature assumption but seriously i would consider my self a douche bag if i take on tiny little girl just to show how tough i am but if she is single and cute you should probably introduce her to me she and i will have a great time:!).

Lets just end this meaningless argument right here i hope any of my comments didn't hurt your feelings but if they did HUGS ARE FREE(now that was funny admit it).

 

[nismaratwork]

It's similar and they fall in the same big category of sports with variable motor regimen, but not identical, competitional calendar is very different, energy systems are involved in different ratios, power requirements different, and hence they require different programing of training.



Not automatically, but given hypothetical equal technical ability you say , it is a great advantage.

And it's important not speak of maximum power alone, but maximum power in a specific bio-energetic regime. It has no use to be able to develop a lot of power but fall flat on your back out of gas after 2 mins for example, or suffer a tremendous drop in power output after the same time.

If you want to see how much physical preparedness counts, IMO a good example is to watch the fight between George StPierre vs BJ Penn , it was at UFC 94 IIRC.
Penn is a very accomplished BJJ fighter, with pretty awesome technique, but in this fight GSP simply passes his guard at will. Pay attention at how GSP does it, how fast can he develop force, and how explosive he remained for the whole duration of the fight. He was utterly dominant and he can thank this in big part to his physical preparedness.

I watched that, it was amazing. GSP is just what you're describing: that genetically gifted mesomorph who can actually PERFORM in practice what most only learn academically. Anderson Silva's front-kick would be another great example... sure we all know how to do it, but in a FIGHT?! Wow.

Do you have any material on this subject (kinesthetics? bio-kinetics? I don't know what it's called) that you'd recommend for some deep reading? I'm especially interested in how these atheletes develop such intense speed and cardiovascular stamina, and maintain technique as well.

 

[nismaratwork]

As far as taking on female police officers i will not be very comfortable taking on a women cause i never done it before but if do agree to that i think i will do just ok cause i have done some stand up grappling but who knows they might just put me on my a**.

I recommend reading about (if you can tell me your native tongue, I'll try to translate) "Pain-Complience" techniques. In general, there is a world of joint locks and ways to attack "weak points" that reduce the assemtry between sizes and genders. There is also the factor of agression; where you hesitate, she may not.

By the way i am not that young and you probably find me awkward cause of the lame jokes well it is hard to crack jokes in a language you are not accustomed to and no i don't take such things personally which are coming out of the keyboard of a guy whom i don't even know.

I'm glad to hear that, it very much how I view the internet. I'd be happy to try using a translator and some basic knowledge to bridge any language barriers, and remember that PF is quite the international community. Still, I think the content of your jokes are coming through, but they're not culturally relevent, which again, is no knock (fault) on you.

[And why did you assume that you little female friend who is not even fit(according to you) will "destroy" me now that was a premature assumption but seriously i would consider my self a douche bag if i take on tiny little girl just to show how tough i am but if she is single and cute you should probably introduce her to me she and i will have a great time:!).

Because I've sparred with her, and I'm 6'2", and at the time, very fit. She didn't beat me often, but she specialized in hyperextensions of fingers and toes... OW. Possbly in a turn you'll find amusing, she's a lesbian, so... no joy there. She is tiny, blonde and adorable however, right up until she has your thumb in a pretzle and your balls in your throat.

Remember, size is ALWAYS a trade with speed. There are fast big guys, but it comes at a price of stamina. This woman is FAST, and she has very good reflexes. When someone is trying to break your fingers or dislocate something precious (joints or testicles), or head-butting you in the sternum (happned to me)... size becomes very relative.

[Lets just end this meaningless argument right here i hope any of my comments didn't hurt your feelings but if they did HUGS ARE FREE(now that was funny admit it).

Now that WAS funny, and don't worry, AFAIK I don't have feelings which get hurt. Probably not a good sign...

 

[DanP]

I watched that, it was amazing. GSP is just what you're describing: that genetically gifted mesomorph who can actually PERFORM in practice what most only learn academically. Anderson Silva's front-kick would be another great example... sure we all know how to do it, but in a FIGHT?! Wow.

Do you have any material on this subject (kinesthetics? bio-kinetics? I don't know what it's called) that you'd recommend for some deep reading? I'm especially interested in how these atheletes develop such intense speed and cardiovascular stamina, and maintain technique as well.

1. Exercise physiology: Human bioenergetics and its applications Brooks, Fahey & Baldwin
2. Adaptation in sport training - Akto Viru
3. Neuromechanics of human movement - R. Enoka
3. Programming and Organization of training - Yuri Verkhoshansky
4. Fundamentals of strength training in sport - Yuri Verkhoshansky
5. Special strength training - Yuri Verkhoshansky
6. Science and practice of strength training - V. Zatiorsky
7. Transfer of training in sports A. Bondarchuck
8. Periodization of training - Theory and methodology T. Bompa


Those contain everything you need to know, but tbh, you need a couple years of practice in the field to see the theory falling in place and develop the skills needed to be efficient in physical preparation of athethes, and even before that you need to know very well the sport you want to prepare somone physically for, and be proficient in lifting yourself, so you can teach correctly the more complex lifts and drills. (for example cleans and snatches and their power versions) .

 

[nismaratwork]

1. Exercise physiology: Human bioenergetics and its applications Brooks, Fahey & Baldwin
2. Adaptation in sport training - Akto Viru
3. Neuromechanics of human movement - R. Enoka
3. Programming and Organization of training - Yuri Verkhoshansky
4. Fundamentals of strength training in sport - Yuri Verkhoshansky
5. Special strength training - Yuri Verkhoshansky
6. Science and practice of strength training - V. Zatiorsky
7. Transfer of training in sports A. Bondarchuck
8. Periodization of training - Theory and methodology T. Bompa


Those contain everything you need to know, but tbh, you need a couple years of practice in the field to see the theory falling in place and develop the skills needed to be efficient in physical preparation of athethes, and even before that you need to know very well the sport you want to prepare somone physically for, and be proficient in lifting yourself, so you can teach correctly the more complex lifts and drills. (for example cleans and snatches and their power versions) .

Excellent! Thanks very much Dan, I'll get on those.

edit: To be clear, this is for my own information and edification, I'm not about to power-lift or train others. I imagine that learning about the full range however, is valuable simply to know. besides, I'm curious.

 

[DanP]

Excellent! Thanks very much Dan, I'll get on those.

edit: To be clear, this is for my own information and edification, I'm not about to power-lift or train others. I imagine that learning about the full range however, is valuable simply to know. besides, I'm curious.

Then get Zatiorsky's book alone, the rest will gather dust :P

 

[nismaratwork]

Then get Zatiorsky's book alone, the rest will gather dust :P

Fair enough, I'll go one by one, but I do tend to read anything I get my hands on. I'll take your advice on this however.

 

[DanP]

Fair enough, I'll go one by one, but I do tend to read anything I get my hands on. I'll take your advice on this however.

Well, if the first will open your appetite for more ...

 

[nismaratwork]

Well, if the first will open your appetite for more ...

Inevitably this is the case, but still, there's no harm in taking it easy. I appreciate the info, references, and book advice.

 

[elfboy]

in terms of strength men > women if weight & height being equal

 

[FizixFreak]

she's a lesbian, so... no joy there.

What the fu**!
Really or are you just kidding? i mean that not only surprised me but i laughed like a horse on this

She is tiny, blonde and adorable however

Nice i think i can make her straight(is that the right word) i am a very handsome man or at least that is what my mother keeps telling me.

This woman is FAST, and she has very good reflexes.

hmmmmmm... now i am even more interested

Remember, size is ALWAYS a trade with speed

That is true in a lot of cases but if you have seen andrei arlovski or brock lesner fight in the UFC you will think otherwise these guys are amazing.
And one more thing can testicles be dislocated?

 

[FizixFreak]

If you want to see how much physical preparedness counts, IMO a good example is to watch the fight between George StPierre vs BJ Penn , it was at UFC 94 IIRC.
Penn is a very accomplished BJJ fighter, with pretty awesome technique, but in this fight GSP simply passes his guard at will. Pay attention at how GSP does it, how fast can he develop force, and how explosive he remained for the whole duration of the fight. He was utterly dominant and he can thank this in big part to his physical preparedness.

When i saw the fight i heard the announcers mentioning how much bigger GSP is compared to Penn and that size difference was quite visible even though they weighed roughly the same and you could clearly see how GSP showed much greater strength and and too me that was probably the biggest reason he won,GSP even looks bigger then the other guys in the division.

One thing i don't understand is that how can two men of the same weight differ so much in lean muscle mass? can you enlighten me on that?

 

[DanP]

When i saw the fight i heard the announcers mentioning how much bigger GSP is compared to Penn and that size difference was quite visible even though they weighed roughly the same and you could clearly see how GSP showed much greater strength and and too me that was probably the biggest reason he won,GSP even looks bigger then the other guys in the division.

One thing i don't understand is that how can two men of the same weight differ so much in lean muscle mass? can you enlighten me on that?

Different training protocols have different effects on body composition. A difference of several % only in body fat can dramatically change the individual's appearance. Furthermore a low body-fat percentage coupled with good ratios will make a naked human look "bigger". (but you still need to pack muscles, low bf% over very small muscles won't be very impressive)

If you step down from performance world, and you are just interested in how you look, it's worthy of note that perception of size and a good looking body is an interesting "illusion". Get good ratios all over your body, strive for a low bf% and you may look bigger and better naked then somebody who is a heavier than you.

 

[FizixFreak]

Different training protocols have different effects on body composition. A difference of several % only in body fat can dramatically change the individual's appearance. Furthermore a low body-fat percentage coupled with good ratios will make a naked human look "bigger". (but you still need to pack muscles, low bf% over very small muscles won't be very impressive)

If you step down from performance world, and you are just interested in how you look, it's worthy of note that perception of size and a good looking body is an interesting "illusion". Get good ratios all over your body, strive for a low bf% and you may look bigger and better naked then somebody who is a heavier than you.

Good point! i think bone structure of an athlete also plays an important role here and so does the genetics if you look at gsp he does not have a very thick chest or jacked up shoulders its just that his body frame has a bigger surface area his bones are wider and since strength is not only a function of muscle mass but also depends of the amount of leverage you can generate with your limbs,so a guy with a bigger frame can easily hold on to his opponent in the guard and beat him down like gsp normally does can't wait to see him fight Jake shields
(By the way isn't surprising that this thread has not attracted that many females)

 

[DanP]

Good point! i think bone structure of an athlete also plays an important role here and so does the genetics if you look at gsp he does not have a very thick chest or jacked up shoulders its just that his body frame has a bigger surface area his bones are wider and since strength is not only a function of muscle mass but also depends of the amount of leverage you can generate with your limbs,so a guy with a bigger frame can easily hold on to his opponent in the guard and beat him down like gsp normally does can't wait to see him fight Jake shields
(By the way isn't surprising that this thread has not attracted that many females)

Of course genetics play a big role in sports, but recall that the best genetics in the world won't help you if you don't train correctly, if you are not persistent and consistent in training. You can be gifted like a god, and still end as a middle shape guy if you don't maintain your gifts.
GSPs genetics surely help him, but no genetic gift in this world is a supplement for hard training and determination. Genetics may make the journey easier, but they aint a guarantee for anything.

 

[nismaratwork]

What the <snip> Really or are you just kidding? i mean that not only surprised me but i laughed like a horse on this

It's funny, AND it's true; she's the first to appreciate the humor in all of it. She's the prototypical "sporty" lesbian (her quote); softball, amateur body-building, fitness, martial arts. Still tiny and adorable!

Nice i think i can make her straight(is that the right word) i am a very handsome man or at least that is what my mother keeps telling me.

That would be a PERFECT line to use if you want to engage in genuine combat with her.

hmmmmmm... now i am even more interested


That is true in a lot of cases but if you have seen andrei arlovski or brock lesner fight in the UFC you will think otherwise these guys are amazing.
And one more thing can testicles be dislocated?

They are, but if you weren't restrained by rules, they have very similar weak points: eyes, throat, axillary nodes, groin... oh, and LOTS of kicking in the head when down... gouging, and illegal knife-hands... you'd stand a better chance. Still, they are rather unique specimens among men, but GSP or Arlovski?... GSP. Even between men, pound for pound Lesner is nothing compared to the more skilled and athletic fighters, IMO... Arlovski is genuinely impressive.

 

[nismaratwork]

Of course genetics play a big role in sports, but recall that the best genetics in the world won't help you if you don't train correctly, if you are not persistent and consistent in training. You can be gifted like a god, and still end as a middle shape guy if you don't maintain your gifts.
GSPs genetics surely help him, but no genetic gift in this world is a supplement for hard training and determination. Genetics may make the journey easier, but they aint a guarantee for anything.

It seems that his life = fighting and training right now... you rarely see that level of dedication AND success. Manny Pacquiao would be another example, especially early in his career. Muhammed Ali was both, but when one leg of that training/body/genetics fell down, he started to get hit a LOT.

Nothing is a substitute for training, and cardio is god.

 

[FizixFreak]

That would be a PERFECT line to use if you want to engage in genuine combat with her.

well that ends a possible relationship thanks for nothing bro

 

[nismaratwork]

well that ends a possible relationship thanks for nothing bro

Well, in a moment of sheer candor, I thought the same thing years ago, but I'll say this: she's a fantastic friend.

 

[FizixFreak]

It seems that his life = fighting and training right now... you rarely see that level of dedication AND success. Manny Pacquiao would be another example, especially early in his career. Muhammed Ali was both, but when one leg of that training/body/genetics fell down, he started to get hit a LOT.

Nothing is a substitute for training, and cardio is god.

Training and hard work can help human come over disadvantages of genetics and any type of adversity i believe humans are the most superior beings because they learn and adapt things through hard work better then any other species we are not superior due to apposable thumbs or our ability to walk upright so yeah hard work is the key in any walk of life(now if i could just come over my laziness and get of from the couch and go to pee)

 

[DanP]

Anderson Silva's front-kick would be another great example... sure we all know how to do it, but in a FIGHT?! Wow.

Silva's front kick was fast and very accurate, but the KO was not the result of superior physical preparedness IMO. I've got the impression Belfort totally missed where the kick was heading for, it looked like he expected it to come to the body. But in fact, have no freaking idea what Belfort was doing, he basically did nothing to counter that, he appeared to just stay there and watch how it comes with serenity, in quiet contemplation.

Ppl rave about this front kick because they see them extremely rarely in MMA which is very watched now, and they think it was unique and awesome, but it's more used in Muay Thai game and if anyone would want to see it used near perfection, they should look at Ramon Dekkers's fights.

 

[nismaratwork]

Silva's front kick was fast and very accurate, but the KO was not the result of superior physical preparedness IMO. I've got the impression Belfort totally missed where the kick was heading for, it looked like he expected it to come to the body. But in fact, have no freaking idea what Belfort was doing, he basically did nothing to counter that, he appeared to just stay there and watch how it comes with serenity, in quiet contemplation.

I think you're right, but it's SO rare in this context that I suspect he was taken unawares. I'm guessing that's a trick that works once, now that...

Ppl rave about this front kick because they see them extremely rarely in MMA which is very watched now, and they think it was unique and awesome, but it's more used in Muay Thai game and if anyone would want to see it used near perfection, they should look at Ramon Dekkers's fights.

...people are going to take a page from Muay Thai defense when fighting against a known kicker. I agree, and while you could NOT pay to me to fight in that ring, it's a true contest. Of course, that probably explains the pain, injuries, and occasional deaths...

Anyway, I have to say that Belfort's reaction was extremely poor, but if Silva had been anything less than powerful and PERFECTLY accurate, it would have just hurt. He NAILED him, and you could see that Belfort wasn't out, but the old synapses just weren't back up to speed.

I would say this: in Muay Thai you don't have to worry about the ground game, only the standing clinch. Ok, "only" is kind for grabbing someone in a virtual full nelson and kneeing them into pulp, but when a takedown -> submission or beating is there, throwing that becomes very unwise. I guess... unless you're Anderson Silva...

I know that for me, I'd never use a kick like that, even sparring... it's all or nothing unless you're an athletic god (Silva).

 

[DanP]

I would say this: in Muay Thai you don't have to worry about the ground game, only the standing clinch.

Actually, Muay Thai rules allow for some throws (some are banned, and some are outright hard to pull off because of the gloves) form clinch and allow for sweeps when you catch the leg. So you can bite the ground many times in a game under Muay Thai rules. Although is not allowed to engage the fallen adversary, throwing someone from clinch is sometimes painful and it is pretty demoralizing. So it;s not a walk in the park either. Throw a sub-par kick, and you will bite the ground in MT as well, should the defender decide its in advantage.

Ok, "only" is kind for grabbing someone in a virtual full nelson and kneeing them into pulp, but when a takedown -> submission or beating is there, throwing that becomes very unwise. I guess...
.

It depends. True, usually ppl prefer higher percentage kicks, aiming low or mid. But it;s not unheard of high kicks in MMA. Anderson Silva uses them. Cro-Cop was famous for his high kicks. Gonzaga KOed Crop Cop with a high roundhouse kick. GSP took Matt Hughes down with a high kick. Chuck Liddell did the same but I can't recall who the hell was he fighting. Its not really unwise. It's a lower percentage attack, but rear high kicks have knockout power, and they are usually only used by ppl who had trained intensively primarily in striking.

unless you're Anderson Silva...
.

Well, he gambled and he won. But just before his KO he sent a lead roundhouse high kick at Belfort, which was blocked perfectly and Belfort used the opportunity to take Silva down.
He managed to get back up on his feet, but Belfort;s reaction was awesome to that kick.

 

[nismaratwork]

Actually, Muay Thai rules allow for some throws (some are banned, and some are outright hard to pull off because of the gloves) form clinch and allow for sweeps when you catch the leg. So you can bite the ground many times in a game under Muay Thai rules. Although is not allowed to engage the fallen adversary, throwing someone from clinch is sometimes painful and it is pretty demoralizing. So it;s not a walk in the park either. Throw a sub-par kick, and you will bite the ground in MT as well, should the defender decide its in advantage.

I flat-out didn't know that. Cool!

It depends. True, usually ppl prefer higher percentage kicks, aiming low or mid. But it;s not unheard of high kicks in MMA. Anderson Silva uses them. Cro-Cop was famous for his high kicks. Gonzaga KOed Crop Cop with a high roundhouse kick.

I saw that live... and I have to say it HURT to watch. The way his leg folded under him, that was a serious blow. It's still, IMO, a huge risk when facing that class of opponant... the legs are perfect targets, and the liver, and you can reduce risk. Just my view though.

GSP took Matt Hughes down with a high kick. Chuck Liddell did the same but I can't recall who the hell was he fighting. Its not really unwise. It's a lower percentage attack, but rear high kicks have knockout power, and they are usually only used by ppl who had trained intensively primarily in striking.

Note that of the UFC stable, the most (in my view) genetically gifted are: Matt Hughes, and GSP. I think in practice it takes immense training to be able to plan that kind of devestating and committed strike. I think it also takes serious reactions that you can train, but there has to be a natural gift too. Look at Hughes... he can strike, and lift a buffallo while singing. (maybe an exaggeration). I am quoting the "venerable" Joe Rogan, "He has retard strength"... insulting, but it's telling as well. These are also, including Liddel, are proven fighters with a jaw. In the history of UFC, it's probably one of the least common effective strikes, if not the least common. It's also fairly unique in that outside of a sport, it's a fairly mad thing to do. If you can afford to kick someone on the button, you could be doing the same to their genitals or right flank.

Well, he gambled and he won. But just before his KO he sent a lead roundhouse high kick at Belfort, which was blocked perfectly and Belfort used the opportunity to take Silva down. He managed to get back up on his feet, but Belfort;s reaction was awesome to that kick.

True, very true, and I think that's where Silva as a (good) freak of nature and training rears its beautiful head. If you're down under Belfort, it's not going to be an easy thing to get up. Silva is like some kind of mutant anaconda wearing a "person-suit".

 

[DanP]

I flat-out didn't know that. Cool!

For example:




That's MT. K1 rules are different.

 

[nismaratwork]

For example:




That's MT. K1 rules are different.

Yeah, I admit I watch all of it. Boxing is just so generally corrupt and unimpressive>

That's one helll of a clip too, thanks.

Oh, have you seen Caol Uno perform his flying scissor takedown?... That guy is impressive as hell within K1/Shooto.

 

[DanP]

Oh, have you seen Caol Uno perform his flying scissor takedown?... That guy is impressive as hell within K1/Shooto.

That's a Judo sacrifice throw called Hasami gaeshi (Kani bassami in Kodokan classification). It's very effective and prohibited in IJF Judo competition ( since 1980 I think, after Sumio Endo broke Yasuhiro Yamagarbagea's leg with it ) since it can cause serious injuries.

Some variations are pretty flashy (ok, she did it with uke's cooperation :P )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERzm2t_VrIc&f

Some variations of it are also effective for street fights (this particular version prevent you from having one leg trapped under opponent) if you decide to go down

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=US&hl=uk&v=xUI6KxOHIYM

 

[nismaratwork]

That's a Judo sacrifice throw called Hasami gaeshi (Kani bassami in Kodokan classification). It's very effective and prohibited in IJF Judo competition ( since 1980 I think, after Sumio Endo broke Yasuhiro Yamagarbagea's leg with it ) since it can cause serious injuries.

Some variations are pretty flashy (ok, she did it with uke's cooperation :P )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERzm2t_VrIc&f

Some variations of it are also effective for street fights (this particular version prevent you from having one leg trapped under opponent) if you decide to go down

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=US&hl=uk&v=xUI6KxOHIYM

Ahhh Judo... such a rich and violent history, and now so diluted. I admit, the only Judo I know was in the context of Krav Maga, and the names weren't in it. Those are some excellent videos, and it seems like a fine way to roll into a truly devestating postion like a figure-4 leg lock, or any number of dislocations and hyperextensions.

Good clean fun.

 

[lisab]

Some variations of it are also effective for street fights (this particular version prevent you from having one leg trapped under opponent) if you decide to go down

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=US&hl=uk&v=xUI6KxOHIYM

:!) What a beautiful takedown!

 

[nismaratwork]

:!) What a beautiful takedown!

Throws and takedowns... that's what Judo, do.

(note, I realize there is more to Judo)

 

[FizixFreak]

Ahhh Judo... such a rich and violent history, and now so diluted. I admit, the only Judo I know was in the context of Krav Maga, and the names weren't in it. Those are some excellent videos, and it seems like a fine way to roll into a truly devestating postion like a figure-4 leg lock, or any number of dislocations and hyperextensions.

Good clean fun.

I am not saying that judo is ineffective but these particular techniques are impractical on the streets i mean they look flashy and impressive but in a real street fight using these techniques would not be good idea for a street fight you need to learn techniques which are simple and easy to master like the ones used by to police and the army but none the less judo can overall be used as an effective fighting style.

If we are talking about combat sport i think i must post this fight this is some crazy stuff this fight really shows the difference between k1 and mma striking.

 

[DanP]

I am not saying that judo is ineffective but these particular techniques are impractical on the streets i mean they look flashy and impressive but in a real street fight using these techniques would not be good idea for a street fight you need to learn techniques which are simple and easy to master like the ones used by to police and the army but none the less judo can overall be used as an effective fighting style.

Kani Basami is effective in street fights. It may not appear so to an untrained eye, but it is.

 

[FizixFreak]

Kani Basami is effective in street fights. It may not appear so to an untrained eye, but it is.

Well i have never trained my eyes( get it?) but i do have some experience in combat sports and it takes time to learn these techniques and to use it on streets where things get pretty rough some times you need to master it completely and a thug on the street is never going to wait for the day you master the technique and then attack you.

Another thing i notice that when practicing these techniques in the dojo or a club your sparring partner will not show much resistance but on the street things will be different.

 

[DanP]

Well i have never trained my eyes

You should :P

thug on the street is never going to wait for the day you master the technique and then attack you.

Nobody will wait for you to learn to master any technique. Humans believe in silver bullets, but they don't exist. The most "basic" of striking techniques, like a jab or a cross take many months to be developed to any meaningful extent. You'll probably learn to throw a lead hook efficiently after about ten thousand repetitions. And then you will still improve your motor control for many many years to come.

And that's the development of basic technique only. Countering attacks, the ability to change your striking combination on the fly depending the reaction of your opponent to the first punch in the series is a skill which won't come easy at all, and it requires countless hours of sparring .

In fact, you will see that it's easier for a person to learn ground techniques and become proficient in them than stand-up (and that include both strikes and throws).

One of the problems with many self-defense training places is that they teach many great techniques, which suposedly work well with little to no training, but then the wake up call
comes. Nothing really falls into place without countless hours of training, sparring, and physical preparation. Lacking those, all you managed to do is to lure practitioners into a false sense of security.

The effectiveness of any technical movement in sports or in combat is determined by the practitioners effectiveness, not by the technique itself. The jab might be the most important and the most simple and basic punch in every fighting system, but if you are not able to use it correctly, you still amount for nothing. And ironically, throwing a good jab takes skill :P

Another thing i notice that when practicing these techniques in the dojo or a club your sparring partner will not show much resistance but on the street things will be different. [/SIZE]

Really ? Smart of you to notice that street fights involve resistance. Resisting a kami basami is one the worst idea you can have. You should not give an opportunity to have it applied. This particular throw has the potential to do most of it's damage when it is resisted. So if you got exposed to it, pray to god that you manage to see it coming, and you do not resist it.

Also, sparring means different things to different ppl. My city is a competitive Judo center, one of the best in the country. Around here sparring means business. While ppl don't go all out on each other all the time, and they are very useful in training to each other, and try to improve their team members which do not have a great game yet, they fight, they don't play. You don't raise to a competitive standard without taking your sparring **very seriously**. Around here even teenage girls will show a lot of resistance in sparring.