Movie Classics that totally escape me

[PeroK]

Political and social commentary bore me to death.

That's your prerogative. But, it does explain simply why you don't get certain classic films. Anything that touches on reality is taboo. It's not the quality of the film but simply that it might ask you to confront some real aspect of human civilization; rather than present some fantasy aspect (like sci-fi or a spaghetti western).

There's nothing wrong in this, but it renders your analysis of any serious film meaningless, since by your own admission anything that tackles real social or political issues bores you to death.

 

[symbolipoint]

That's your prerogative. But, it does explain simply why you don't get certain classic films. Anything that touches on reality is taboo. It's not the quality of the film but simply that it might ask you to confront some real aspect of human civilization; rather than present some fantasy aspect (like sci-fi or a spaghetti western).

There's nothing wrong in this, but it renders your analysis of any serious film meaningless, since by your own admission anything that tackles real social or political issues bores you to death.

The expected content outcome IS for these classic films (and Literatures) to give political or social commentary.

 

[Bystander]

real social or political issues

"Real" equals one thing to you, and another to me; rather than embark on an exploration of that/those difference/s , let us agree to disagree about what is and is not "serious."

 

[PeroK]

"Real" equals one thing to you, and another to me; rather than embark on an exploration of that/those difference/s , let us agree to disagree about what is and is not "serious."

Yes, but it all started with your consternation over Citizen Kane.

It's also important, I believe, to recognize that Dirty Harry, for example, is not a real character but a fantasy of what some hope a policeman might be. Compared to The Wire, say, which is more what police work would be like if you joined the Baltimore force.

 

[cobalt124]

Well, I'll stand up for Citizen Kane...

Admittedly it was a long time ago and I was less mature, so I'll give it a second look.

It seems I like films with a strong musical score, another two spring to mind, The Third Man (Orson Welles again) and Psycho.

Also like James Cagney gangster movies such as Angels with Dirty Faces and White (Top o' the world Ma) Heat

 

[Michael Price]

Ooohh, yesss. The Third Man and White Heat - both greats.

 

[PeroK]

Ooohh, yesss. The Third Man and White Heat - both greats.

One of the interesting things about movies of that era is the morality. In White Heat, the undercover policeman saves Cody's life(!) in order to gain his confidence. Wouldn't it have been better just to let him get killed?

Ironically, of course, this condemns the would-be assassin.

 

[Michael Price]

One of the interesting things about movies of that era is the morality. In White Heat, the undercover policeman saves Cody's life(!) in order to gain his confidence. Wouldn't it have been better just to let him get killed?

Ironically, of course, this condemns the would-be assassin.

That would be short movie.

 

[Bystander]

"Mankind's only hope for survival: Brad Pitt, Ad Astra", in cinemas from Sep 18.

T.L.J. plus Donald Sutherland? Not "seven degrees of Kevin Bacon" flops from the future, "currently acknowledged classics that escape me," or you, or whoever is responding; films that have been recommended to me, you, or whoever, as being worth the time to watch, and been total disappointments.

The "whys" of the disappointments aren't necessary; one man's meat is another's poison. You like Citizen Kane, I don't; I'm not going to tell you you can't like Citizen Kane. Or why you shouldn't like Easy Rider or The Maltese Falcon. I'm just curious how many PFers don't trust movie critics.

 

[DennisN]

I'm just curious how many PFers don't trust movie critics.

Ah, I understand. Which makes me wonder how many of us secretly enjoy movies that are considered bad/bombed at the box office... that could be a bit embarassing... and fun.

I looked for a list of movies considered classics and found one on Rotten Tomatoes: http://www.rottentomatoes.com/top/bestofrt/top_100_classics_movies/. Most of the films on that list I have not seen, and those that I have seen, I liked. With the exception of "2001", since I don't remember what I thought about it.

And I balance this post into neutrality by adding a list of movies considered the worst.
And considering the number of achieved Golden Raspberrys (Razzies), which is sort of a parodic Oscar ceremony for bad movies, Battlefield Earth is at number two with 9 razzies and Jack and Jill at number one with 10 razzies .

Edit:

I'm just curious how many PFers don't trust movie critics.

I was more open to seeing movies that I knew nothing about before, but nowadays I am more picky, since I value my time more . I usually watch the trailer, and look at sites like metacritic, Rotten Tomatoes and sometimes imdb to get a feel for how well received the movie is. But if it's a movie that I really want to see, like e.g. a particular science fiction movie, I may skip checking ratings and reception.

 

[DaveC426913]

And I balance this post into neutrality by adding a list of movies considered the worst.

Great list. I'm pleased to say I haven't seen almost all of them. But the ones I have, I heartily agree with. Starting from bottom, Catwoman was the first I've seen.
Memorably bad films:
Gigli
Battlefield Earth
Showgirls
Highlander 2 ("Thehre shuld be onlye hwone!")
etc.

Plan 9 and Reefer Madness stand out as so exquisitely bad, they're good.

 

[DennisN]

Highlander 2

Dave, your post summoned up horrible memories for me...
When I was younger me and my friends were fans of Highlander (the first movie). When Highlander 2 was released we went to see it at the cinema. We were shocked by how bad it was and left the cinema before the movie had finished.

Edit: I've only seen two of the movies on the "bad" list I posted above, Highlander 2 and The Last Airbender. I thought both were awful, but Highlander 2 was worse.

 

[PeroK]

Ah, I understand. Which makes me wonder how many of us secretly enjoy movies that are considered bad/bombed at the box office... that could be a bit embarassing... and fun.

I looked for a list of movies considered classics and found one on Rotten Tomatoes: http://www.rottentomatoes.com/top/bestofrt/top_100_classics_movies/. Most of the films on that list I have not seen, and those that I have seen, I liked. With the exception of "2001", since I don't remember what I thought about it.

It's an interesting selection. I've seen almost all of them (95 out of the 100 to be exact). At number 97 is "Les Desmoiselles de Rochefort". I saw that a few years ago at the National Film Theatre in London. There were some scenes I literally could not watch. My girlfriend and I were doing everything not to collapse in fits of laughter, as it was clear that many around us were loving it - and, indeed, gave it a standing ovation at the end.

The other I can't understand is "A Hard Day's Night" at number 18. I can't believe only 17 movies in history are better than a Beatles movie.

The surprise is "Nosferatu" from 1922 at number 15. I've only seen that once and I remember it as a real "symphony of horrors". Creepy and scary and amazing for its time. Not sure it's the 15th best ever, though, but good to see it on the list.

 

[Torbert]

...And I balance this post into neutrality by adding a list of movies considered the worst.
And considering the number of achieved Golden Raspberrys (Razzies), which is sort of a parodic Oscar ceremony for bad movies, Battlefield Earth is at number two with 9 razzies and Jack and Jill at number one with 10 razzies ....

Ouch, "Battlefield Earth" is in my favorites box. The top 16 out of 200 movies in my collection.
This hurts, I had always thought it was considered one of the classics.

 

[Janus]

Battlefield Earth

Understandable as to why this was a bad movie, it was based on a bad book.
Back in the early 80's, when I read it, on the cover it already had the blurb "Soon to be a major motion picture". After finishing the book, my thought was "Why would anyone think this would make a good movie?"

 

[pinball1970]

I had pretty much the opposite reaction. Somehow never saw it for years (Though I always seemed to find it while flipping channels just in time to see that last famous scene.) . Finally saw it all the way through and felt let down. It just didn't seem to hold up to all the praise I heard about it.

Maybe that was the problem, my expectations had been built up so high, that the actual film was bound to fall short.
Another example was the Eddie Murphy movie "48 hrs". My wife's sister and her husband raved about it. So, my wife and I rented it. Both of our reactions were: "Meh"."Classic" movies I have enjoyed include
"The African Queen"
"Singing in the Rain"(even though generally musicals aren't my thing.)
"It's a Wonderful Life". ( Though admittedly, my enthusiasm has waned due to over-exposure)

It's an interesting selection. I've seen almost all of them (95 out of the 100 to be exact). At number 97 is "Les Desmoiselles de Rochefort". I saw that a few years ago at the National Film Theatre in London. There were some scenes I literally could not watch. My girlfriend and I were doing everything not to collapse in fits of laughter, as it was clear that many around us were loving it - and, indeed, gave it a standing ovation at the end.

The other I can't understand is "A Hard Day's Night" at number 18. I can't believe only 17 movies in history are better than a Beatles movie.

The surprise is "Nosferatu" from 1922 at number 15. I've only seen that once and I remember it as a real "symphony of horrors". Creepy and scary and amazing for its time. Not sure it's the 15th best ever, though, but good to see it on the list.

I think the Beatles film is in there because you get to hear and see Beatles music being played in good quality without the screaming.
The only way we get to see them again.
The rotton tomato worst ever list has some films I definitely want to see.
Ishtar Heavens Gate a couple of other so bad they are good.
There is an ET rip off I want to see and also Water world
One of the worst films I have have ever seen is Jonny mnemonic - rubbish
Also Mary Shelley's Frankenstein - Kenneth Branagh. Nothing fit with that film, even the music score. Complete garbage

 

[Bystander]

... that could be a bit embarassing... and fun.

Thank you for the lists (plural); and, the suggestion. I'll step into the "blender/barrel" first and say I liked Howard the Duck, not before it's cameo in GotG had piqued my curiosity, but... Off to the lists to present a full confession of "acknowledged" hits and misses.

Per @DennisN 's suggestion https://www.rottentomatoes.com/top/bestofrt/top_100_classics_movies/ and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_films_considered_the_worst will be the two working lists. Let the fun begin.

 

[Klystron]

Worst over-hyped foreign film of my teen years: "I Am Curious, Yellow", followed by that director's other "color"-titled flicks. Apparently the hype was over a few minutes of full male / female nudity.

Spoiler: Curious?

Other than some lackluster love making the entire film is a sleeper. My mother the librarian received free tickets for film festivals and special screenings that I often inheirited. Generally, I like so-called foreign films to glean little cultural tidbits. This film was incredibly BORING.

The female character was plain, overweight and frigid. The dude was plain, limp and had no idea how to make love with a woman. I thankfully cannot remember the plot, if any.

Avoid at all cost.

 

[WWGD]

Political and social commentary bore me to death. Too many training films in basic and AIT.

I don't know others, but to me there is enough going on in modern life that I just look for escapism in mostly light-hearted movies, unless an otherwise exceptional movie can present a deeper topic n light-hearted ways.

 

[WWGD]

Spoiler: Curious?

Other than some lackluster love making the entire film is a sleeper. My mother the librarian received free tickets for film festivals and special screenings that I often inheirited. Generally, I like so-called foreign films to glean little cultural tidbits. This film was incredibly BORING.

The female character was plain, overweight and frigid. The dude was plain, limp and had no idea how to make love with a woman. I thankfully cannot remember the plot, if any.

Avoid at all cost.

Librarian? I fail to see what your mom's astrological sign has to see with the quality of movies ??

 

[Bystander]

Okay, from the "lemon list," The Babe Ruth Story , (not willingly, school children are were subject to the whims of teachers); HtD as already confessed, and I'm willing to sit through it every other year; Superman IV, is in my inventory as part of a set purchased for the Gene Hackman/Lex Luthor - Richard Pryor team; Batman and Robin, again part of a set, but I'm willing to watch it once in a while to remind myself why I'll never sit through From Dusk 'til Dawn again (George Clooney); The Avengers, and I think it's actually as entertaining as the originals (ducks rotten fruit from the cheap seats); Catwoman, in my collection, and, Halle Berry got a best actress for Monster's Ball, and showed up in person at the razzies, which is also in my collection, and it, MB, is headed for the trash, while C is one I'll hang on to.

Forty-some of the top hundred watched; however, the eyelids are drooping, confession is good for the soul.

 

[DaveC426913]

Oh yeah: Wide Sargasso Sea. It's redeeming feature: better than ocean surf recordings if you want to cure insomnia.

 

[WWGD]

Librarian? I fail to see what your mom's astrological sign has to see with the quality of movies ??

Common Klystron, cheesy joke #37.

 

[Klystron]

[snip...]
while to remind myself why I'll never sit through From Dusk 'til Dawn again (George Clooney); [...] confession is good for the soul.

Concur. Never watch again. Just that Selma Hayek (beauty) and Cheech Marin (humor) almost make it worth a look. Juliette Lewis appears so lost; "Is that plump kid supposed to be my brother?".

Some fans must like the movie enough as it spawned a series?

 

[Klystron]

Common Klystron, cheesy joke #37.

Cool. But now you have to listen while I sing

"I'm a bookkeeper's Son."​

"I don't want to shoot no one?"​

"But I crossed my old man back in Oregon."​

"Don't take me alive!"​

With compliments to Steely Dan.

 

[Bystander]

Okay, from Rotten Tomatoes Best Hundred in order plus brief comments: 1) WoO, meh; 5) Casa., not bad; 11) TBoF, high "camp," but I'd never pay specifically for it---take it in a "grab bag" at a garage sale; 12) SWatSD, Disney wants too much money; 13) K-K, Fay Wray; 15) N, maybe it is, and maybe it isn't complete, but it's all I've found, seems very fragmentary---foreign, silent, thirties---keep thinking I'll spring for John Malkovich, SotV, but can't bring myself to drop that much for Willem Dafoe; 17) TAoRH, Errol Flynn?; 18) HD'sN,

good quality without the screaming.

; 19) Psycho, what can be said, got multiple copies, plus first sequel is worth watching; 21) NNW, set it up on "loop;" 23) RW, ditto; 26) AQotWF, intense; 30) Vertigo, Stewart is not up to RW form, nor, is Hitchcock, I'll take Mel Brooks' spoof (High Anxiety) any day; 32) LoA, and 33) TTotSM, "I want my money back;" 35) F, "meh;" 36) C-town, a little Jack Nicholson goes a loonnngggg way; 37) DSoHILtSWaLtB, bravissimo; 38) TBS, those who think I prefer Buster Keaton to Bogie are in for a surprise, agents used to be literal murder, look at James Garner; 39) KHaC, Alec Guinness did some stuff back in the "dark ages" that is priceless; 42) R'sBaby, "pray;" 44) TGoW, another "Once? Yes, but no re-runs, please," Steinbeck is too damnably depressing; 46) OtWF, parents took me when little, and I've never been able to gag down another Brando film; 47) RomanH, another family movie from my childhood, take it, or leave it; 49) GWTW, sneered at elsewhere in the thread; 50) CHL, opening scene with pipe cutter, beheading parking meters, is one I came in on the end---I've DVRed it, but don't know that I'll ever be able to take the second time; and, that's halfway through the list.

Wide Sargasso Sea

Which one? Imdb lists three.

 

[DaveC426913]

Which one? Imdb lists three.

It was decades ago. So presumably the 1993 one.

 

[Klystron]

To see Fay Wray in the best light try to find the original uncensored "King Kong" before the Catholic censors forced the studio to cover her up or cut her scenes. Ditto for Maureen O'Sullivan and swimmer Johnny Weissmuller in the pre-code "Tarzan the Ape-Man" released in 1932. I never understood what Edgar Rice Burroughs fans were so angry about until I saw the original movies not hacked by some Catholic monsignor.

Certainly the woman / Ape attraction makes more sense. Televised versions were so censored that Fay seems surrounded by a hazy translucent cloud while Tarzan mainly hangs out with Cheetah.

 

[PeroK]

Worst over-hyped foreign film of my teen years: "I Am Curious, Yellow", followed by that director's other "color"-titled flicks. Apparently the hype was over a few minutes of full male / female nudity.

Spoiler: Curious?

Other than some lackluster love making the entire film is a sleeper. My mother the librarian received free tickets for film festivals and special screenings that I often inheirited. Generally, I like so-called foreign films to glean little cultural tidbits. This film was incredibly BORING.

The female character was plain, overweight and frigid. The dude was plain, limp and had no idea how to make love with a woman. I thankfully cannot remember the plot, if any.

Avoid at all cost.

If you wanted more action, you should have tried "Conan the Librarian".

 

[DennisN]

Halle Berry got a best actress for Monster's Ball, and showed up in person at the razzies

...and Sandra Bullock also accepted her razzie in person for "All About Steve". Two very funny class acts, in my opinion, which can be seen here: Halle Berry razzie clip and Sandra Bullock razzie clip.

 

[DennisN]

I'll step into the "blender/barrel" first and say I liked Howard the Duck, not before it's cameo in GotG had piqued my curiosity, but... Off to the lists to present a full confession of "acknowledged" hits and misses.

I haven't seen Howard the Duck.

Somebody complained about Chevy Chase before in the thread, and I will admit I enjoy National Lampoon's Vacation movies. Particularly National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation because it makes fun of christmas celebrations which many people take seriously.

And I have another confession to make, which makes me sweat a bit from embarrassment...
I liked Pacific Rim, even though I think the background story is silly:

Spoiler

Quote from Wikipedia:
"In 2013, an interdimensional portal called "the breach" opens at the bottom of the Pacific Ocean, from which giant monsters, the Kaiju, emerge, destroying various cities across the Pacific Rim."

I just saw that it has a reasonably good reception (72/100, 77/100) at Rotten Tomatoes. Trailer is here.
I'll think about if I have some more confessions.

 

[DennisN]

Okay, from Rotten Tomatoes Best Hundred in order plus brief comments:

Here's my list of hits which I have seen from the Rotten Tomatoes Best Hundred list:

• Citizen Kane : I liked it.
• The Third Man : I liked it, but expected more.
• Casablanca: Great.
• Snow White: Good.
• Psycho: Good.
• Vertigo: Great.
• Dr. Strangelove: Great.
• Rosemary's Baby: Good.
• 2001: I don't remember.
• Some Like It Hot: Good.
• Goldfinger: Good.
• The Bridge on the River Kwai: Good.
• Paths of Glory: Good.
• A Fistful of Dollars: Good.
• LOTR - The Two Towers: Good, but I think The Fellowship of the Ring is the best in the film trilogy.
• One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest: Great.

I am going to watch The Wizard of Oz since it is at number one on the list, and All Quiet on the Western Front since it's on the list and has been mentioned in this thread. I'm also going to see North by Northwest and The 39 Steps since I like Hitchcock and I don't remember if I have seen them.

 

[DaveC426913]

Starship Troopers.
I had a tough time staying in my seat. At one point, I actually found myself unconsciously trying to crawl up the back of my own theatre seat to escape the painful acting (in particular, the "let's all get tattos" dialogue).

It was the same thing I felt during Showgirls. It's the same feeling I get when reading a novice writer's first few attempts at serious writing.

I don't know why Verhoeven directs like this, but it's as if he is trying to make his audience uncomfortable - with a sort of mockery of cliches . To me, it comes across as insincere - he doesn't have the courage of his convictions. He directs as if the thinks you're "uncool" if you don't ironically appreciate truly bad directing.

 

[Bystander]

he is trying to make his audience uncomfortable - with a sort of mockery of cliches .

"Empathetic" embarrassment; don't people know when everyone's laughing, or don't comedians know when everyone's not? Robin Williams makes me feel that way; Steve Martin has occasionally gone "over the top" that way as well (his "Rubberheads throw fish" routine).

 

[Klystron]

One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest: Great.

Dennis, As you thought "Cuckoo's Nest" was great, you might be a Ken Kesey fan, the author of the novel and main subject of Tom Wolfe's "Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test".

Kesey also wrote "Sometimes a Great Notion" about a twisted clan of lumberjacks up in Oregon. Paul Newman bought the rights and directed a movie also listed as "Never Give an Inch" staring Henry Fonda, Richard Jaekel, Lee Remick and Newman in the principle role. Without spoiling the movie I will say Newman's character faces possibly the worst work day in cinema history.

Spoiler: Do not read this. See the movie or read the novel.

Hank Jr. finds out the family will not be paid for their lumber contract.
The entire town hates him for being a non-union "scab" logger.
His elderly father is torn almost in half by tree. Brother takes Hank Sr. to town in only truck.
His foxy wife is unfaithful to him after he goes to work.
His wife is unfaithful with his brother who hates him.
His brother is actually his son who finds this out from the wife.
Back at work his favorite relative dies in his arms. A hose from the truck could have saved him.
Union townies attack and beat him as he tries to tell family of the death.
His wife leaves him for the young brother. All this before lunch.
He is responsible for nearly all the above.

Starship Troopers.
I had a tough time staying in my seat. [...]
I don't know why Verhoeven directs like this, but it's as if he is trying to make his audience uncomfortable - with a sort of mockery of cliches . To me, it comes across as insincere - he doesn't have the courage of his convictions. He directs as if the thinks you're "uncool" if you don't ironically appreciate truly bad directing.

Word on the street was that Paul Verhoeven saw WWII troops as a kid and as a result thought all military Fascist. Hence the dorky uniforms and stupid dialogue lifted from Robocop. Verhoeven disliked Robert Heinlein's books and refused to read the source material; Heinlein actually predicts this in end notes. Verhoeven chose the worst actors that looked good, then called the mess a "satire" to save face.

The novel makes clear that Juan is black -- Afro-Filipino -- and speaks Tagalog at home, a milestone in science-fiction when "Starship Troopers" was published. Heinlein foresaw diversity in a professional military. Much of the novel concerns armored spacesuits. Director cleanses all this. No suits even on airless planet. Turkish drill instructor, Zim, becomes lily white, his vital role cut to nothing to include a spurious high school football game.