Osama Bin Laden killed by US in Pakistan

[lisab]

I have to say, I'm not very impressed in the quality of the operation.

Wow, tough crowd!

 

[Lacy33]

I just got a picture in my head of Michael Jackson 'doing the walk' with an AK47 on guard duty.

Michael was a man of PEACE! :!) ... Unless he wasn't in the mood. :shy:

 

[drankin]

I heard on the Dennis Miller show today that there is a new drink now called the Bin Laden Martini.

It's made with two shots and a splash.

*rimshot*

 

[Char. Limit]

But if they had missed the compound and wiped out the nearby military academy instead, they could always have claimed it was an attack by Al Quaeda.

My suspicion is that the US has been wasting its time chasing an irrelevance for the last few years. Why? Count the number of protest demonstrations sweeping across the Islamic world. There was a statement from Hamas ... and that's about it.

What does everybody apart from Hamas know, that the USA doesn't? Possibly, who is REALLY running Islamic terrorism right now?

Well, you could either believe this theory of a puppet-master behind terrorism that the entire Islamic world knows about but we, somehow, don't (you think with a BILLION people belonging to Islam, we might not figure it out?)... or you can believe that maybe, just maybe, most Muslims didn't support Osama bin Laden.

 

[drankin]

Well, you could either believe this theory of a puppet-master behind terrorism that the entire Islamic world knows about but we, somehow, don't (you think with a BILLION people belonging to Islam, we might not figure it out?)... or you can believe that maybe, just maybe, most Muslims didn't support Osama bin Laden.

I don't believe all Muslims support Bin Laden, particularly in the US, but it's not hard to believe that many if not most Muslims outside of our country like the fact that he was responsible for hurting the big bad USA. This is evident to me by the lack of outrage and the celebratory response after 9/11 in the ME.

 

[rootX]

I don't believe all Muslims support Bin Laden, particularly in the US, but it's not hard to believe that many if not most Muslims outside of our country like the fact that he was responsible for hurting the big bad USA. This is evident to me by the lack of outrage and the celebratory response after 9/11 in the ME.

I loved the Historian View in this article:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-13259869

Although Bin Laden prided himself on his strategic genius, and did undoubtedly succeed in inspiring many angry young Muslims to heed him, in reality the US deposition of the Afghan Taliban government was a disaster for him and his organisation, forcing them to rely on affiliated actors whose priorities were often more local than al-Qaeda's.

More important is the question whether in a few years Bin Laden sinks into relative obscurity among young Muslims around the world - apparently his visage disappeared from T-shirts in Pakistan and Palestine long ago.

I have always believed that youth and illiteracy are a poison to this world.

 

[Al68]

It was really stupid to dispose of the body the way they did. A lot of people are going to be skeptical it really happened. All we have left now to prove we got him, is the prospect of a photograph being released. And in my opinion they really ought to release the photography.

So far I have heard- That they wanted to dump the body in the Sea to give Osama a dignified muslim burial while preventing a shrine from forming. Are you serious?!

Why not? Anyone who thinks we faked killing him wouldn't be swayed by a claim that we still have his dead body, anyway. Were we supposed to embalm it and display it for inspection?

What possible reason would we have to violate muslim burial tradition by keeping the body?

 

[jreelawg]

Why not? Anyone who thinks we faked killing him wouldn't be swayed by a claim that we still have his dead body, anyway. Were we supposed to embalm it and display it for inspection?

What possible reason would we have to violate muslim burial tradition by keeping the body?

Since when do we give terrorists and mass murderers proper traditional burials. I just think that they should have held onto the body at least until after they announced he was dead.

I mean come on, were celebrating his death in the streets. It just sounds like BS that we would be concerned about giving a mass murderer a dignified and proper burial. What does he need one for anyways? What do we want to make sure he can go to muslim heaven?

I don't know it just seams ridiculous. On the other hand, maybe there is some kind of classiness in doing it like this? To me it's like throwing flowers on hitlers grave.

 

[drankin]

Since when do we give terrorists and mass murderers proper traditional burials. I just think that they should have held onto the body at least until after they announced he was dead.

I mean come on, were celebrating his death in the streets. It just sounds like BS that we would be concerned about giving a mass murderer a dignified and proper burial. What does he need one for anyways? What do we want to make sure he can go to muslim heaven?

I don't know it just seams ridiculous. On the other hand, maybe there is some kind of classiness in doing it like this? To me it's like throwing flowers on hitlers grave.

Obama doesn't want to piss off those of Islamic faith. It was a strictly political decision I'm sure.

 

[MATLABdude]

Since when do we give terrorists and mass murderers proper traditional burials. I just think that they should have held onto the body at least until after they announced he was dead.

I mean come on, were celebrating his death in the streets. It just sounds like BS that we would be concerned about giving a mass murderer a dignified and proper burial. What does he need one for anyways? What do we want to make sure he can go to muslim heaven?

I don't know it just seams ridiculous. On the other hand, maybe there is some kind of classiness in doing it like this? To me it's like throwing flowers on hitlers grave.

Some jackhole burnt a Koran and seven UN contractors (along with however many Afghan civilians) ended up dead in the ensuing riots. Why make a mountain out of a molehill, or a martyr out of a corpse?

I don't believe the US has ever desecrated the remains / graves of its enemies or criminals (even the ones it executes--e.g. Timothy McVeigh). Why start now? What matters is that he's dead--why give him power beyond the grave?

 

[Pengwuino]

President Barack Obama and Vice President Joe Biden, along with members of the national security team, receive an update on the mission against Osama bin Laden in the Situation Room of the White House, May 1, 2011. Seated, from left, are: Brigadier General Marshall B. “Brad” Webb, Assistant Commanding General, Joint Special Operations Command; Deputy National Security Advisor Denis McDonough; Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton; and Secretary of Defense Robert Gates. Standing, from left, are: Admiral Mike Mullen, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff; National Security Advisor Tom Donilon; Chief of Staff Bill Daley; Tony Binken, National Security Advisor to the Vice President; Audrey Tomason Director for Counterterrorism; John Brennan, Assistant to the President for Homeland Security and Counterterrorism; and Director of National Intelligence James Clapper. Please note: a classified document seen in this photograph has been obscured. (Official White House Photo by Pete Souza)

To have been in that room...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/whitehouse/5680724572/sizes/o/in/set-72157626507626189/

Who's the cutie in the back?

 

[MATLABdude]

Who's the cutie in the back?

Things you can think about after the fact? Apparently, you're not the only one asking:
http://powerwall.msnbc.msn.com/politics/audrey-tomason-situation-room-mystery-woman-1687402.story

 

[Pengwuino]

Things you can think about after the fact? Apparently, you're not the only one asking:
http://powerwall.msnbc.msn.com/politics/audrey-tomason-situation-room-mystery-woman-1687402.story

Yah I've been looking around and she's like a ghost!

If I were part of the White House, I would have all the pics photoshopped and have her removed and be like "Audrey who? What woman? We don't know what you're talking about. Stop asking questions or you're next".

 

[WhoWee]

Some jackhole burnt a Koran and seven UN contractors (along with however many Afghan civilians) ended up dead in the ensuing riots. Why make a mountain out of a molehill, or a martyr out of a corpse?

I don't believe the US has ever desecrated the remains / graves of its enemies or criminals (even the ones it executes--e.g. Timothy McVeigh). Why start now? What matters is that he's dead--why give him power beyond the grave?

IMO - there's no reason to release any additional details. The most wanted man in the world resisted and was shot. He died and was buried at sea - NEXT!

Every additional statement will fuel speculation - IMO.

 

[JaredJames]

Wait, did I miss this?

According to today's papers, the White House has confirmed he was unarmed.

His wife rushed a soldier and got shot in the leg.

He didn't use anyone as a shield.

 

[Borg]

Does anyone know what the operation code name was? A lot of places are reporting that it was Geronimo but, the evening news last night stated a different name for the operation and that Geronimo only referred to bin Laden. I can't remember what it was or find anything other than Geronimo.

 

[WhoWee]

According to today's papers, the White House has confirmed he was unarmed.

His wife rushed a soldier and got shot in the leg.

He didn't use anyone as a shield.

How do you know he didn't run into the bedroom to hide? How do you know he didn't train his "wife" to act in this manner? Again, any additional statements from the White House will result in speculation.

 

[Newai]

From the Chive:

[PLAIN]http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/2696/savethese1.jpg

 

[DaveC426913]

How do you know he didn't run into the bedroom to hide? How do you know he didn't train his "wife" to act in this manner? Again, any additional statements from the White House will result in speculation.

If you start with the assumption that everyone is lying, you get nowhere fast.

Why go halfway? Why not assume the soldiers chased down and shot his puppy too?

 

[WhoWee]

If you start with the assumption that everyone is lying, you get nowhere fast.

Why go halfway? Why not assume the soldiers chased down and shot his puppy too?

Let's clarify - please!

I first posted this: (my words in bold)
"WhoWee Re: Osama Bin Laden killed by US in Pakistan

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by MATLABdude
Some jackhole burnt a Koran and seven UN contractors (along with however many Afghan civilians) ended up dead in the ensuing riots. Why make a mountain out of a molehill, or a martyr out of a corpse?

I don't believe the US has ever desecrated the remains / graves of its enemies or criminals (even the ones it executes--e.g. Timothy McVeigh). Why start now? What matters is that he's dead--why give him power beyond the grave?

IMO - there's no reason to release any additional details. The most wanted man in the world resisted and was shot. He died and was buried at sea - NEXT!

Every additional statement will fuel speculation - IMO. "

Then I posted this: (my words in bold)
"WhoWee Re: Osama Bin Laden killed by US in Pakistan

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by JaredJames
According to today's papers, the White House has confirmed he was unarmed.

His wife rushed a soldier and got shot in the leg.

He didn't use anyone as a shield.

How do you know he didn't run into the bedroom to hide? How do you know he didn't train his "wife" to act in this manner? Again, any additional statements from the White House will result in speculation. "

We need to stop second-guessing the original story and move on. I'm not questioning the President or the military. The bad guy is dead - no explanation required (IMO) - NEXT!

 

[turbo]

An al-Qaida member on the Saudi most-wanted list has turned himself in.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ml_saudi_al_qaida;_ylt=AqiphA_m5wy31riNk0ap.FSs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTNjMWYwOGpwBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTEwNTA0L3VzX2Jpbl9sYWRlbgRjY29kZQNtb3N0cG9wdWxhcgRjcG9zAzEEcG9zAzcEcHQDaG9tZV9jb2tlBHNlYwN5bl90b3Bfc3RvcnkEc2xrA3NhdWRpcG9saWNlYQ--

 

[JaredJames]

How do you know he didn't run into the bedroom to hide? How do you know he didn't train his "wife" to act in this manner? Again, any additional statements from the White House will result in speculation.

I was only answering DaveC regarding his question as to where the new info came from. Dave asked where, I answered there. That's all. No need for debate, none required.

In fact, the only one coming close to "second-guessing the original story" is you in your response to my answer. If you don't want it, why bring it up in this manner? No one else was.

 

[WhoWee]

I was only answering DaveC regarding his question as to where the new info came from. Dave asked where, I answered there. That's all. No need for debate, none required.

In fact, the only one coming close to "second-guessing the original story" is you in your response to my answer. If you don't want it, why bring it up in this manner? No one else was.

Yet you found it necessary to comment that "He didn't use anyone as a shield"?

BTW - you forgot to support your comment with a link to the story you cited? I agree - no debate required.

 

[JaredJames]

Yet you found it necessary to comment that "He didn't use anyone as a shield"?

I'm writing what's in the newspaper in front of me. "Reports the alqaeda chief used a human shield were dismissed by the whitehouse".

That's all I commented on, the new info coming out and where it came from in response to the question.

BTW - you forgot to support your comment with a link to the story you cited?

Yes, here's the link: www.jareds-lap.com/dailymirror/"hewasunarmedduringshootout"

For those of you wondering, "he was unarmed during shootout" is the name of the story.

I'm sure you can find it on their website or any other news agency. If you really insist, I'll take a picture of it and post it here.

Ridiculous isn't it? Well, like I said, just answering the question of what and where, not putting it in for debate or to stand up to any scrutiny, nor was it meant to stand up here as some form of citation.

 

[drankin]

I'm writing what's in the newspaper in front of me. "Reports the alqaeda chief used a human shield were dismissed by the whitehouse".

That's all I commented on, the new info coming out and where it came from in response to the question.


Yes, here's the link: www.jareds-lap.com/dailymirror/"hewasunarmedduringshootout"

For those of you wondering, "he was unarmed during shootout" is the name of the story.

I'm sure you can find it on their website or any other news agency. If you really insist, I'll take a picture of it and post it here.

Ridiculous isn't it? Well, like I said, just answering the question of what and where, not putting it in for debate or to stand up to any scrutiny, nor was it meant to stand up here as some form of citation.

I heard about the "human shield" initially as well. I wonder where that really came from. I doubt anyone was grabbing nearby women and using them as shields. You only see that in crappy movies.

Personally, I don't care if he was armed or not. They may have just told him to get down and he refused. Reason enough to end it right there to me. You don't send a SEAL team into arrest people. They either extract or kill their targets.

 

[DaveC426913]

Whether or not he was physically armed in his apprehension, I am satisfied that he has proven himself to be extremely dangerous and the lives of the soliders who took him were likely in extreme danger the longer the apprehension lasted. Deadman switches are not beyond his tactics.

For me, this justifies his immobilization even at the cost of killing him (similar to - though not the same as - sharpshooters in a hostage situation).

 

[turbo]

Whether or not he was physically armed in his apprehension, I am satisfied that he has proven himself to be extremely dangerous and the lives of the soliders who took him were likely in extreme danger the longer the apprehension lasted. Deadman switches are not beyond his tactics.

He certainly could have had the place booby-trapped, to avoid being taken alive. Shooting him and getting back out of there was a good course of action in the face of that possibility. Those SEALS didn't know if they were going to encounter heavy armed resistance, explosives, etc when they went in. We may never know what contingencies they had planned for (why educate our enemies on their tactics?), so perhaps we should trust that they acted on orders and did what they were told.

 

[WhoWee]

Whether or not he was physically armed in his apprehension, I am satisfied that he has proven himself to be extremely dangerous and the lives of the soliders who took him were likely in extreme danger the longer the apprehension lasted. Deadman switches are not beyond his tactics.

For me, this justifies his immobilization even at the cost of killing him (similar to - though not the same as - sharpshooters in a hostage situation).

I could not agree more. The President chose the method least likely to injure innocent women or children - if the most wanted man in the world chose to surround himself with women and children (ultimately put them in harms way) that speaks to his character - not the President or the SEALs. He's dead, the body is buried - case closed!

 

[jreelawg]

IMO - there's no reason to release any additional details. The most wanted man in the world resisted and was shot. He died and was buried at sea - NEXT!

Every additional statement will fuel speculation - IMO.

According to the latest news, he didn't resist, he was unarmed. It was first reported there was a firefight, and also that females at the location were used as human shields, but yesterday the official details changed, and it is now known that Bin Laden was unarmed and that the women weren't used as human shields, although it is suggested that one of the females charged the seal team.

Bottom line, should have had him alive, but hey, dead is better than nothing right. If the seal team could only be expected to have killed the targets even at the apparent best scenario for capturing alive, then maybe the seal team was the wrong move. The most desirable outcome would have been to capture all the residents alive for interrogation. I don't think fear of resistance is a great excuse. If they had survivors, information may have been obtained which may have ended up saving lives. They did pull it off without blowing up the building (computers etc.) and that was smart, but the ultimate outcome was not achieved. I understand the seal team are heros and deserve praise, but it's never healthy to judge a situation with bias eyes. Next time they better have learned something and have a better plan for capture if we are going to maximize the efficiency of our National Security efforts.

Additional statements will only help clear things up and end the speculation IMO.

 

[drankin]

According to the latest news, he didn't resist, he was unarmed. It was first reported there was a firefight, and also that females at the location were used as human shields, but yesterday the official details changed, and it is now known that Bin Laden was unarmed and that the women weren't used as human shields, although it is suggested that one of the females charged the seal team.

Bottom line, should have had him alive, but hey, dead is better than nothing right. If the seal team could only be expected to have killed the targets even at the apparent best scenario for capturing alive, then maybe the seal team was the wrong move. The most desirable outcome would have been to capture all the residents alive for interrogation. I don't think fear of resistance is a great excuse.

Interrogation? "OK guys, you got me but I'm not saying anything. Where's my lawyer?"

Killing him spares us a media fiasco, riots, general craziness around the world. Do you really think we would get any useful info from Bin Laden himself? He is more useful as a dead leader of a terrorist organization. SEAL team was the best move.

 

[jreelawg]

Interrogation? "OK guys, you got me but I'm not saying anything. Where's my lawyer?"

Killing him spares us a media fiasco, riots, general craziness around the world. Do you really think we would get any useful info from Bin Laden himself? He is more useful as a dead leader of a terrorist organization. SEAL team was the best move.

Paul Wolfawits said on CNN yesterday that the most valuable information they get comes from inside the heads of their captives, and that it was interrogation techniques at Guantanamo which helped lead to the information of Bin Ladens location. It would be an oxymoron to also assume that no information could have been obtained from residents of this location. It would be unwise to pass up on the opportunity to possibly extract useful information especially from such a high level source.

 

[DaveC426913]

Killing him spares us a media fiasco, riots, general craziness around the world. Do you really think we would get any useful info from Bin Laden himself? He is more useful as a dead leader of a terrorist organization. SEAL team was the best move.

Well, I'm not so cynical or cold-blooded that I think they should kill him because he's more useful. I do think that, if he were alive, he'd be a lightning rod for terrorist rescue activity, and I can see the US giving that consideration, but personally I don't agree that 'it's better that he's dead'.

 

[drankin]

Paul Wolfawits said on CNN yesterday that the most valuable information they get comes from inside the heads of their captives, and that it was interrogation techniques at Guantanamo which helped lead to the information of Bin Ladens location. It would be an oxymoron to also assume that no information could have been obtained from residents of this location. It would be unwise to pass up on the opportunity to possibly extract useful information especially from such a high level source.

It's a trade off. Destroying the leader of the organization which also destroys the morale of the followers or keep him alive for the remote possibility he is going to give us some useful info. Alive he would be treated with kid gloves and would have no incentive to reveal anything. Ultimately, eliminating him as an icon of the organization is worth far more IMO.

I have to say, though I don't agree with Obama's politics, he isn't afraid to pull the trigger when it counts. He succeeded where Clinton failed on OBL in my book.

 

[turbo]

I have to say, though I don't agree with Obama's politics, he isn't afraid to pull the trigger when it counts. He succeeded where Clinton failed on OBL in my book.

Let's not turn this into a left-right argument please. It seems you have conveniently left out an intervening President who wanted Bin Laden "dead or alive" one year, and claimed that his capture was not a priority the next year.

By their fruits shall ye know them.

All our Presidents operate within frameworks of international diplomacy, domestic pressures, problems with evaluating intelligence products, and trying to come up with some risk/reward ratios for military actions, etc. Add into the mix the personal relationships of our leaders with other leaders, and things get messy fast. Do you remember that highly-placed Saudis including members of the Bin Laden family were flown away to their homes immediately after 9-11 while US citizens were all grounded? That was a huge potential loss to the intelligence community, IMO, because al-Qaida hadn't yet gone to ground as firmly as they are today.

 

[Museigen]

No photos will be released. Wrong move I believe.