Panama Papers - Huge tax leak exposes Putin aides, world leaders, stars

[bballwaterboy]

There are supposedly Hillary Clinton implications in these papers too.

Just Googling them now.

I think something about her suppressing the minimum wage of Haiti?

 

[Hornbein]

There are supposedly Hillary Clinton implications in these papers too.

Just Googling them now.

I think something about her suppressing the minimum wage of Haiti?

That was in the Wikileaks papers. Haiti tried to raise the minimum wage to 64 cents. She pressured them into keeping it at 34 cents. Give or take a few cents.

 

[EU2AA]

Не понимаю. хммм... Что газеты в Беларуси говорят? = (I don't understand. hmmm... What do the newspapers in Belarus say?)

What do you mean?
The most important question: Who paid for the investigation? US government, Soros funded Panama Papers to attack Putin – WikiLeaks https://www.rt.com/news/338683-wikileaks-usaid-putin-attack/
About USA-angels 'Panama Papers’ company set up 1000+ businesses in USA https://www.rt.com/usa/338684-panama-papers-usa-connections/

 

[Astronuc]

A top haven for tax cheats that may surprise you: the US
https://taxes.yahoo.com/post/142356210008/a-top-haven-for-tax-cheats-that-may-surprise-you

America’s openness to foreign tax evaders is coming under new scrutiny after the leak this week of 11.5 million confidential documents from a Panamanian law firm. The Panama Papers show how some of the world’s richest people hide assets in shell companies to avoid paying taxes.

America itself is emerging as a top tax haven alongside the likes of Switzerland, the Cayman Islands and Panama, those seeking reform of the international tax system say. And states such as Delaware, Nevada, South Dakota and Wyoming, in particular, are competing with each other to provide foreigners with the secrecy they crave.

 

[zoobyshoe]

The cellist's remarks here sound like a veiled confession to me:

Asked about the offshore companies linked to him last week, Rodulgin said: “Guys, to be honest I am not ready to give comments now … These are delicate issues. I was connected to this business a long time ago. Before ‘perestroika’. It happened … And then it started growing and such things happened. The House of Music [in St Petersburg] is subsidised from this money.”

http://www.theguardian.com/news/2016/apr/03/panama-papers-money-hidden-offshore

It sounds like he's admitting he got embroiled in these schemes quite a long time ago, under different circumstances, and it has evolved with the passage of time to its present configuration.

 

[OmCheeto]

What do you mean?
The most important question: Who paid for the investigation? US government, Soros funded Panama Papers to attack Putin – WikiLeaks https://www.rt.com/news/338683-wikileaks-usaid-putin-attack/
About USA-angels 'Panama Papers’ company set up 1000+ businesses in USA https://www.rt.com/usa/338684-panama-papers-usa-connections/

I actually don't believe anything yet. There is so much garbage out there to filter through, that I decided to follow only what Bastian Obermayer and Frederik Obermaier tweet about. Bastian is the journalist that "John Doe" initially contacted. He and Frederik were apparently writing a book about the experience, while it was happening.

Here are a couple of interesting articles

Bastian Obermayer ‏@b_obermayer [9:23 pm PDT 5 Apr 2016]

Here's @_nicolaclark from @nytimes about #panamapapers http://nyti.ms/239rsyr @icij @lukeharding1968 @RyleGerard @SZ_Investigativ
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/06/b...-to-the-panama-papers.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0​

The above article is probably a synopsis of the book, and answered some of my questions:
How can 400 people keep a secret like that for over a year?

How a Cryptic Message, ‘Interested in Data?,’ Led to the Panama Papers
...
With such a large number of people trolling through the same database, the partners needed to agree early on with a common strategy for collaboration and for parsing out the research, as well as a joint promise to hold off on publishing until everyone was ready. The partners held a series of secret meetings, some of which involved more than 100 people. The first took place at a rented room of the National Press Club in Washington in June, followed by others in Munich, London and Lillehammer, Norway.

“The danger was always that if something happened in the world and the reporters in that country would get terribly excited and want to publish right away,” Gerard Ryle, the director of ICIJ, said.

I was also fascinated by the logistics of the project. This is, after all, an international problem. How many languages were the documents written in?

While the original documents were written in 25 different languages, most of the communication on the forum took place in English, with reporters actively sharing interesting tidbits with the relevant specialized teams.

The following, points to an article, asking where all the American names are:

Bastian Obermayer ‏@b_obermayer [12:09 am PDT 6 Apr 2016]

The US and the #panamapapers, and why there might not be many US persons http://fusion.net/story/287671/americans-panama-papers-trove/ …​

Where are all the Americans in the Panama Papers?
...
So far, the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists (ICIJ) has only been able to identify 211 people with U.S. addresses who own companies in the data (not all of whom we’ve been able to investigate yet). We don’t know if those 211 people are necessarily U.S. citizens. And that figure covers only data from recent years available on a Mossack Fonseca internal database — not all 11.5 million files from the leak.

In other words, that 211 number comes from just a small sliver of the data. “It’s a complete underestimate,” says Mar Cabra, head of the data and research unit at the ICIJ. Finding a precise number of Americans in the data is difficult.

Woo Hoo!


Not sure about you, but I consider most American politicians, and their mega-rich business buddies, to be crooks.
Not all, but most.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Here's an old article (Feb 2015) that lends credence to the idea "the US" is behind the Panama Papers leak:

In the latest post-Crimea ripple, these particular Russian rich — who reaped their wealth by mining oil, gas, ore, or just Moscow establishment connections — have cash that in the eyes of many Americans and Europeans, could be tainted. That puts banks in a confusing purgatory: Regulators don’t know whether the money they’re touching has gone through the hands of organizations that the U.S. and Europe have placed sanctions on in the aftermath of the Ukraine conflict. And precisely because authorities are more vigilant than ever, banks can’t afford any error.

In short, no one wants to have much to do with Russia at all, says Jeffrey Mankoff, Russia/Eurasia expert at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, a Washington think tank. “It’s becoming increasingly isolated,” he says...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/11/russian-millionaire-europe_n_6664370.html

I say "lends credence to the idea." Which it does, but of course it's circumstantial evidence. Generally, it's true (according to the article) Russia has been placed on a Western 'to be shunned' list due to its over reaches in Crimea/Ukraine. Those elements in the US who are anti-Putin would certainly welcome the leaks, since they seem to taint him. Whether or not they somehow engineered them from scratch remains to be seen.

 

[zoobyshoe]

The following, points to an article, asking where all the American names are:

Bastian Obermayer ‏@b_obermayer [12:09 am PDT 6 Apr 2016]

The US and the #panamapapers, and why there might not be many US persons http://fusion.net/story/287671/americans-panama-papers-trove/ …​

Here's a different take on that question I ran into yesterday:

http://www.nbcnews.com/business/bus...anama-papers-lawyer-doesn-t-want-them-n553116

 

[OmCheeto]

Here's an old article (Feb 2015) that lends credence to the idea "the US" is behind the Panama Papers leak:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/11/russian-millionaire-europe_n_6664370.html

I say "lends credence to the idea." Which it does, but of course it's circumstantial evidence. Generally, it's true (according to the article) Russia has been placed on a Western 'to be shunned' list due to its over reaches in Crimea/Ukraine. Those elements in the US who are anti-Putin would certainly welcome the leaks, since they seem to taint him. Whether or not they somehow engineered them from scratch remains to be seen.

As I implied earlier, I won't believe anything until I see it in a history book, 20 years from now.

I've been scratching my head about Russia since the fall of the Berlin wall, 24 years ago.
I seem to recall that just a few years later, Moscow was purported to have the most billionaires in the world.
According to Forbes, Moscow is now #3 on the list with the most billionaires.

How the heck did that happen? Weren't they all "equal" before that? Probably questions for another thread. But then again, maybe not.

hmmmm...

I wonder if Abba predicted this, 40 years ago.



I find this all, a bit, funny.

 

[OmCheeto]

One of my Facebook buddies shared the following a couple of days ago:

OPINION
Panama Papers: Why should we care?
The Panama Papers leak shows that it is not just the global tax system that is broken, but global governance itself.
06 Apr 2016 09:14 GMT
...

Ha! I've known for quite some time that the US governance system was broken.
Perhaps people around the world didn't realize such a thing could be possible in their countries.

...
In this sense, the unprecedented leak of nearly 40 years' worth of documents
...

40 years? Where did I just see that number?
Ah! Hahahahaha!

per wiki;

"Money, Money, Money" ... was released as a single on 1 November 1976
"Mossack Fonseca" ... was founded by German lawyer Jürgen Mossack in 1977​

It's all Abba's fault...

 

[EU2AA]

08/04/2016, 18:28

Former London Mayor Ken Livingstone expressed the view that the publication of the Panamanian file may cause a serious blow to the reputation of British Prime Minister David Cameron.

"Cameron's father for thirty years engaged in money laundering through Panama and did not pay taxes in the UK. Then his son, all denied, do not want to talk about it openly. It can be reproached and hypocrisy. Four years ago, during the election campaign for mayor, he accused me of tax evasion, even though I paid more taxes than required. And he knew it perfectly. In general, if you want to avoid paying taxes, you laundered money abroad, as did his father. I think Cameron - the most hypocritical prime minister of those I've seen in my life ", - he said.

Livingston suggested that Cameron had to resign at that time, when he came to power: "His government has caused the country a very great deal of damage. Suffered the poor, the community, who are desperately in need of investment. During the six years of the Cameron government has enabled a small elite to get richer and the poor attention paid no. He does not just have to resign, he should be put in jail. "

 

[zoobyshoe]

How the heck did that happen? Weren't they all "equal" before that?

I don't know the details, but the groundwork for Russian billionaires was probably first laid in the early 1990s when Soviet Communism took a very serious hit:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-17858981

Communism was the ideology preventing anyone from enriching themselves. In the absence of Communism, something bearing a certain resemblance to Capitalism could take root.

 

[OmCheeto]

Another good reason why we should care about this:

Panama: Cheating “Epidemic” Crowds Out Honest Business, Implicates Banks
By Lynn Parramore
APR 6, 2016 | MONEY & BANKING
The Panama Papers are not simply a story of public corruption as depicted in news outlets like the Wall Street Journal, says former financial regulator William K. Black. They’re a reminder that such corruption destroys the possibility for honest businesses to succeed.
...
“Those who want to do business honestly simply can’t compete against people who don’t pay taxes,” says Black. A company may start out with strong values and principles, but if all of its competitors are cheating, that business will either just fail, or else will “grit their teeth and go for it.” Thus, still more cheaters, and fewer straight shooters.
...
Black and his fellow watchdogs are on the lookout for more than merely episodic cheating, but what he calls “really epidemic levels.” He asserts that what we have now is an epidemic.

“This is really dangerous for the world,” says Black.
...

I wonder if this type thing is partially responsible for what happened to Greece?

Extent of Greek tax evasion [wiki]
In the last quarter of 2005, 49% of the companies inspected by the tax authorities were found to have committed tax offenses while in January 2006 it fell to 41.6%. A study by researchers from the University of Chicago concluded that tax evasion in 2009 by self-employed professionals alone in Greece (accountants, dentists, lawyers, doctors, personal tutors and independent financial advisers) was €28 billion or 31% of the budget deficit that year.
The Tax Justice Network has said that there are over €20 billion in Swiss bank accounts held by Greeks. The former Finance Minister of Greece, Evangelos Venizelos, was quoted as saying "Around 15,000 individuals and companies owe the taxman 37 billion euros". Additionally, the TJN puts the number of Greek-owned off-shore companies to over 10,000.

 

[EU2AA]

I wonder if this type thing is partially responsible for what happened to Greece?

In Greece, another problem.
I visited there twice and told me that a few years Greece took loans at 60 billion euros in Germany, bought fighters there. Distills the Turkish air force, invading every day in its airspace. Seen military airfields in many places of Greece.
Debts of only 5 years - 300 billion euros, a heavy burden for Greece.

 

[OmCheeto]

In Greece, another problem.
I visited there twice and told me that a few years Greece took loans at 60 billion euros in Germany, bought fighters there. Distills the Turkish air force, invading every day in its airspace. Seen military airfields in many places of Greece.
Debts of only 5 years - 300 billion euros, a heavy burden for Greece.

There have been plenty of discussions of Greece here at the forum. One is still open.

Greece closes banks and imposes capital control 2015.06.28 - 2015.07.20 (still open)
All but bankrupt Greece and oil 2012.10.19 - 2012.10.23 (thread closed)
Greece, Italy and the Euro 2010.05.06 - 2012.06.26 (thread closed)
What is the reason of demonstration in Greece? 2008.12.13 - 2008-12.15 (thread closed)​

I'm not really interested in solving Greece's problem. They seem to have created it themselves. Much like the rest of the countries seem to have been doing.

ICIJ retweeted an interesting video a couple of hours ago:

ICIJ ‏@ICIJorg [2016.04.09 8:02am PDT]
#PanamaPapers The Shady World of Offshore Companies | Das Erste | NDR …​

Good for practicing your French, Spanish, German, English, and Russian. (Published on Apr 8, 2016)
Interesting video.
I found the following the most entertaining:

36:15-40:15 Trying to visit his office in Panama​

6000+ companies have one office.
No wonder there are no chairs, desks, file cabinets, etc, etc, in the office. If everyone shows up at once, it's standing room only.

Bastian is also keeping up with the countries involved:

Bastian Obermayer ‏@b_obermayer [2016.04.09 3:17 am PDT]

The fallout from Panama Papers revelations so far, country by country http://gu.com/p/4t66f/stw​

Russia, Azerbaijan, Iceland, UK, China, Zimbabwe, Iran, Australia, Panama, Pakistan, Argentina, Syria

I'm sure the list will get much longer.

I also heard that yesterday, El Salvador raided the local offices of Mossack Fonseca. I guess they were too impatient to wait for more leaks.

hmmmm... I wonder what Eddie has to say about this?

Edward Snowden ‏@Snowden [2016.04.09 6:05 am PDT]

The scandal is what's legal. #closetaxloopholes​

Now that, is the most correct, and succinct answer, I do believe, I will ever read.

 

[mheslep]

Communism was the ideology preventing anyone from enriching themselves...

Communism is the idealogy that keeps a majority of the population poor and elevates the party leadership living in luxury. The party leadership may not have had fat bank accounts or enormous salaries, but why bother when one can simply seize or order it done by the secret police. The Polish puppet president Bierut in the time of the eastern block is a good example of high living: multiple palaces, chauffeurs.https://thevieweast.wordpress.com/tag/boleslaw-bierut/

 

[zoobyshoe]

Communism is the idealogy that keeps a majority of the population poor and elevates the party leadership living in luxury.

Yes, I should have qualified my statement about Communism with "in principle." In practice, Soviet Communism lead to the interesting 'realization': "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." As Orwell put it.

 

[zoobyshoe]

The party leadership may not have had fat bank accounts or enormous salaries, but why bother when one can simply seize or order it done by the secret police.

Yes. And the principle 'power=money' carries over into the present situation. This article comes to the conclusion that:

Framing Putin in terms of wealth misses the point: He has more power than money can buy.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...200-billion-fortune-and-if-so-does-it-matter/

 

[zoobyshoe]

Here's a weird theory I just ran across:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-leaked-the-panama-papers/?tid=pm_world_pop_b

...perhaps it is the Russians who are behind the leak.

Okay, it sounds far-fetched, but this particular idea is especially noteworthy because of who has advanced it: Clifford Gaddy, an economist who works with the Brookings Institution. Gaddy is one of the foremost Western experts on Russia's economy and a former adviser to the Russian Finance Ministry in the 1990s. Along with Fiona Hill of Brookings, he is one of the co-authors of a well-regarded book on the personality of the Russian leader, "Mr. Putin: Operative in the Kremlin."...

 

[Astronuc]

Communism is the idealogy that keeps a majority of the population poor and elevates the party leadership living in luxury. The party leadership may not have had fat bank accounts or enormous salaries, but why bother when . . .

when the state (the public/people) pays for everything, including numerous luxury dachas or apartments. They probably had access to unlimited funds, and maybe a personal bank account or several.

 

[StevieTNZ]

The Government has bowed to pressure after the leak of the over the Panama Papers and has appointed tax expert John Shewan to review the country's foreign trust disclosure rules

Finance Minister Bill English and Revenue Minister Michael Woodhouse said Cabinet had on Monday agreed to appoint him to conduct "an independent review of disclosure rules covering foreign trusts registered in New Zealand,".

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pol...top-tax-expert-to-review-foreign-trust-regime

 

[EU2AA]

Putin

He's like Trump, he could murder someone (or thousands of Ukrainians) and still keep his job.
I've been meaning to start reading a new book I got called Treasure Islands. Might be a good time now.

Chinese President Xi's family implicated in Panama Papers scandal Interesting how this works. And Panama-based law firm Mossack Fonseca is just one of how many companies doing this?

Не понимаю. хммм... Что газеты в Беларуси говорят? = (I don't understand. hmmm... What do the newspapers in Belarus say?)

Include the brain! Why is this?
Old woman-Europe is somehow not noticed that all of the bounce shooting Putin had in Europe.

 

[StevieTNZ]

Our Prime Minister again being grilled about NZ possibly being a tax haven, today in Parliament:

 

[OmCheeto]

This just in:

Panama papers: Mossack Fonseca headquarters raided
Police in Panama have raided the headquarters of the law firm at the centre of a massive data leak.
Prosecutors said the operation had been carried out at the offices of Mossack Fonseca in Panama City "without incident or interference".
...

 

[Dotini]

The Panama Papers are likely a politically motivated CIA operation.
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/04/12/swiss-banker-whistleblower-cia-behind-panama-papers.html

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

The Panama Papers are likely a politically motivated CIA operation.
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/04/12/swiss-banker-whistleblower-cia-behind-panama-papers.html

One man's opinion who is behind bars.

 

[Borg]

One man's opinion who is behind bars.

I think that he's out now. The picture is dated 2009 and the article says that he only served two years.

 

[Astronuc]

The BBC link cited by OmCheeto leads to another - http://www.bbc.com/news/world-35954224

The BBC does not know the identity of the source but the firm says it has been the victim of a hack from servers based abroad.

I've seen one story that implicated the CIA or CIA affiliates in the documents, i.e., the CIA or national security agencies would use off-shore accounts to hide transfers of money for various activities, e.g., paying informants, financing arms deals, etc.

 

[zoobyshoe]

I've seen one story that implicated the CIA or CIA affiliates in the documents, i.e., the CIA or national security agencies would use off-shore accounts to hide transfers of money for various activities, e.g., paying informants, financing arms deals, etc.

This would make sense in terms of the 'oddball' theory I linked to earlier, but which may not be oddball in the final analysis:

He [William C. Gaddy] believes the Russians leaked the information as a message directed at the Americans and other western political leaders — the ones whose information was not contained in the leaks.

“The message is: ‘We have information on your financial misdeeds, too. You know we do. We can keep them secret if you work with us’,” Gaddy writes.

“In other words, the individuals mentioned in the documents are not the targets. The ones who are not mentioned are the targets.”

Gaddy points out that if the goal was really to damage Putin in an information war, the result was “pathetic”.

“Despite the headlines, there is no evidence of Putin’s direct involvement — not in any company involved in the leak, much less in criminal activity, theft, tax evasion, or money laundering,” he writes...

...While the Panama Papers stories “run off Putin like water off a duck’s back”, the leaked data will lead to scandals throughout the west, where “corruption does matter”.

http://www.news.com.au/finance/work/leaders/conspiracy-theory-suggests-putin-was-behind-panama-papers-leak/news-story/4d40bb78280f3d2e9cda4a4d77fdad79

It makes sense at least, the idea of Putin engaging in some global blackmail. The CIA or NSA could well be targets if they had hidden offshore assets with no accountability. The president of Iceland and Cameron would serve as the proof he is willing to damage people, proof it's not a bluff.

Gaddy, the originator of this theory, is "an economist specialising in Russia, a senior fellow in foreign policy at the respected Brookings Insitute thinktank, and the co-author of a number of books including Mr. Putin: Operative in the Kremlin." So, he's got some credentials.

At this point "John Doe" is such a complete unknown that I wouldn't rule anything out. He/she could be anyone with any possible agenda.

 

[OmCheeto]

Bastian has been tweeting/joking about the "conspiracy theories" since the 8th.
[Edited for brevity]

Bastian Obermayer ‏@b_obermayer Apr 8
Finally @VICE found out what's really behind #panamapapers. All 5 explanations are true. This is embarrassing.

A Conspiracy Theorist's Guide to the Panama Papers [Vice]
By Harry Cheadle, Senior Editor
April 7, 2016

1. All Those Attacks on Putin Are Pure Media Bias
2. The Panama Papers Are a US Hit Operation on Russia
3. The CIA Is Behind Everything
4. George Soros Is a Puppet Master
5. The Mossad Is Behind Everything, or Something

He actually had to explain that he was joking:

In reply to Joumana Gebara
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/634656409066565632/MME6EUXH_bigger.jpg Bastian Obermayer ‏@b_obermayer Apr 8
@JoumanaGebara @VICE I assume Vice is not really thinking this. #parody​

And it only got worse

Bastian Obermayer ‏@b_obermayer Apr 10
Now it's really getting complicated. Is #Putin himself behind the leak? The big puppet master? Worth reading!

The not-completely-crazy theory that Russia leaked the Panama Papers [The Washington Post]​

From an interview with Bastian and Frederik, it sounds like Mossack Fonseca thought it was someone working at the company:
Fast forward to 3:20 in the video interview

Bastian Obermayer Retweeted
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/674660723235102720/lEwJFHDt_bigger.jpg Mick Krever ‏@mickbk Apr 11
How nail polish helped keep the "Panama Papers" secret. @b_obermayer & @f_obermaier tell @fpleitgenCNN:

The journalists who broke 'Panama Papers' [CNN video interview]​

Unless of course, you want to know the story about the "nail polish", and then you should watch the whole thing. It's only 11 minutes long.

ps. I'd have shared this information earlier, but I was under the impression that mentioning conspiracy theories was forbidden here at the forum.

 

[zoobyshoe]

ps. I'd have shared this information earlier, but I was under the impression that mentioning conspiracy theories was forbidden here at the forum.

It's not a conspiracy theory until a good explanation is known and vetted.

 

[Dotini]

I cautiously submit the Panama Papers may well be a classic, textbook example of the "limited hangout". In this case, they are designed to inoculate prominent US persons soon to be exposed as users of offshore banking and hidden assets. Poor Mr Cameron has suffered unintended collateral damage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_hangout

 

[OmCheeto]

It's not a conspiracy theory until a good explanation is known and vetted.

You just made that up...

(I know this, as wiki doesn't use the term "vetted". )

A conspiracy theory is an explanatory or speculative hypothesis suggesting that two or more persons, or an organization, have conspired to cause or cover up, through secret planning and deliberate action, an event or situation typically regarded as illegal or harmful.
...

hmm... This sounds like a double conspiracy theory to me, for some reason...

1. The Panama Papers have uncovered a 40 year long conspiracy, inspired by ABBA.
2. People now are making up whackadoodle explanations as to why conspiracy #1 is just now being exposed.

 

[zoobyshoe]

You just made that up...

(I know this, as wiki doesn't use the term "vetted". )

What I mean is that it is not a crackpot conspiracy theory, the kind that PF doesn't allow, unless it goes against a well vetted explanation. That the San Bernadino terrorists might have had help from a larger terrorist network is, at this point, only a conspiracy theory. The FBI wants access to the phone to rule it out, so, it's not considered a "crackpot" conspiracy theory.

 

[StevieTNZ]

https://www.gazette.govt.nz/notice/id/2016-go2253

"Establishment of the Government Inquiry into Foreign Trust Disclosure Rules"

As a result of the recent release of documents known as the ‘Panama Papers’, concerns have been raised about rules covering foreign trusts registered in New Zealand.

Cabinet has decided to initiate a review of New Zealand’s disclosure rules relating to foreign trusts registered in New Zealand to ensure New Zealand’s reputation is maintained.