Plame Was Working On The Iran Nuclear Situation

[edward]

I really didn't give this topic much credit when I first read it on some sources like Talk Left, and the" Raw Story" Then I came across a video of "Hard Ball" on MSNBC in another link.

Valery Plame was working on an Iran nuclear proliferation project at the CIA at the time she was outed. Scroll down the link just a bit to find the video. The video is about the Plame situation in general, but just a bit past the halfway point the information about Plame and her job is made quite clear.

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/05/01.html#a8126

I want someone to convince me that this is not true. If this ever made the mainstream media I certainly must have missed it.

 

[Gokul43201]

If this ever made the mainstream media I certainly must have missed it.

I'm pretty sure it's come up, because I remember seeeing/hearing/reading this as well - it may even be that I happened to watch it on Hardball. But MSNBC is pretty mainstream, isn't it?

 

[edward]

Iit may even be that I happened to watch it on Hardball. But MSNBC is pretty mainstream, isn't it?

Yep, but only if you were watching it at the time.
I don't remember it being in the papers. Regardless it makes the act of outing Plame even more treasonous, especiously considering all of the Iran and nukes talk that is so prevelant everywhere I look.

 

[Cyrus]

Interesting find ed, thanks.

 

[culion]

Yep, but only if you were watching it at the time.
I don't remember it being in the papers. Regardless it makes the act of outing Plame even more treasonous, especiously considering all of the Iran and nukes talk that is so prevelant everywhere I look.

Facts are getting confused here. Plame was outed by Ames in the mid-nineties, resulting in her return to the U.S. As a result, as well as a matter of law Fitzgerald did not/could not accuse anyone of outing her and should have closed the case five minutes after it was assigned to him. As for Iran, Plame was not outed by anyone in 2003 while working in the Iran group which has many working on the same things - nothing lost.

 

[edward]

Facts are getting confused here. Plame was outed by Ames in the mid-nineties, resulting in her return to the U.S. As a result, as well as a matter of law Fitzgerald did not/could not accuse anyone of outing her and should have closed the case five minutes after it was assigned to him. As for Iran, Plame was not outed by anyone in 2003 while working in the Iran group which has many working on the same things - nothing lost.

Got a link for that? I would really like to see it.

It was the CIA who turned the incident over to the Department of Justice for investigation.

 

[edward]

As for Aldrich Ames, he was giving information about CIA operations to the Russians. The end result was that Plame along with many other agents were recalled from foreign covert operations for fear that they had been compromised. She was not "outed" at that point anymore than any of the other CIA agents.

AMES:

I knew quite well, when I gave the names of our agents in the Soviet Union ... that they were almost all at least potentially liable to capital punishment.

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/cold.war/experience/spies/interviews/ames/

The Topic here is still about what Plame was working on (Iran) when she was outed by the Bush administration.

 

[edward]

To be specific, here is where Plame was working:

According to current and former intelligence officials, Plame Wilson, who worked on the clandestine side of the CIA in the Directorate of Operations as a non-official cover (NOC) officer, was part of an operation tracking distribution and acquisition of weapons of mass destruction technology to and from Iran.

Speaking under strict confidentiality, intelligence officials revealed heretofore unreported elements of Plame's work. Their accounts suggest that Plame's outing was more serious than has previously been reported and carries grave implications for U.S. national security and its ability to monitor Iran's burgeoning nuclear program.

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2005/Outed_CIA_officer_was_working_on_0213.html

I do believe that Iran and nuclear weapons is a hot topic right now.

 

[culion]

The Topic here is still about what Plame was working on (Iran) when she was outed by the Bush administration.

Can't be outed when there is nothing to out. If outing did occur can you tell us why Fitzgerald did not indict someone for doing so?

 

[culion]

As for Aldrich Ames, he was giving information about CIA operations to the Russians. The end result was that Plame along with many other agents were recalled from foreign covert operations for fear that they had been compromised. She was not "outed" at that point anymore than any of the other CIA agents.

What does that mean? If more than one was outed then they were all outed. Bottom line, here cover was blown and she was returned to the U.S., i.e., she was outed. Subsequently, she no longer fell into the category where she could be outed. As a result, nobody was indicted for outing her or are we dealing with the conspiracy du jour?

 

[culion]

According to current and former intelligence officials, Plame Wilson, who worked on the clandestine side of the CIA in the Directorate of Operations as a non-official cover (NOC) officer, was part of an operation tracking distribution and acquisition of weapons of mass destruction technology to and from Iran.

Speaking under strict confidentiality, intelligence officials revealed heretofore unreported elements of Plame's work. Their accounts suggest that Plame's outing was more serious than has previously been reported and carries grave implications for U.S. national security and its ability to monitor Iran's burgeoning nuclear program.



To be specific, here is where Plame was working:


http://www.rawstory.com/news/2005/Outed_CIA_officer_was_working_on_0213.html

I do believe that Iran and nuclear weapons is a hot topic right now.

So you rely on blogs like rawstory? LOL. Be that as it may, does rawstory tell you when she was a NOC? The fact is that her NOC days were sufficiently long ago that her prior NOC status was no longer covered by laws that prohibit disclosing a secret agent. Of course, if this is not the case then don't you agree that Fitzgerald would have indicted someone? Or is he incompetent or in bed with the Bush crowd? Outta here as only permitted a limited amount of time in wackoland.

 

[edward]

Can't be outed when there is nothing to out. If outing did occur can you tell us why Fitzgerald did not indict someone for doing so?

Good question. It now appears that Dick Armitage may have also leaked the same info at the same approximate time.

 

[edward]

What does that mean? If more than one was outed then they were all outed. Bottom line, here cover was blown and she was returned to the U.S., i.e., she was outed. Subsequently, she no longer fell into the category where she could be outed. As a result, nobody was indicted for outing her or are we dealing with the conspiracy du jour?

You are using the term "outed" selectively to apply to an act of treason that occurred over 10 years ago. Neither Plame nor any of the other dozens of covert agents were in any way outed to the public by Ames treason. Ames supplied the names of agents working in Russia, to the Russians. They were "outed", if you wish, only to the KGB.

Just because no one was indicted for the "outing'" of Plame has no bearing on the fact that her name was revealed to the American and global media.

 

[edward]

So you rely on blogs like rawstory? LOL.

As I mentioned in the OP, I usually would not rely on a source like Raw Story. It turned out that Raw Story was the first source That I found that had a link to the MSNBC. Video located at:
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/05/01.html#a8126

Be that as it may, does rawstory tell you when she was a NOC? The fact is that her NOC days were sufficiently long ago that her prior NOC status was no longer covered by laws that prohibit disclosing a secret agent.

Not operating with NOC status does not mean that she was not working in country on: an operation tracking distribution and acquisition of weapons of mass destruction technology to and from Iran.

Of course, if this is not the case then don't you agree that Fitzgerald would have indicted someone? Or is he incompetent or in bed with the Bush crowd? Outta here as only permitted a limited amount of time in wackoland.

Now you are just rudely rambling. If you consider this forum to be wackoland I would suggest that you not come back.

 

[Manchot]

culion, perhaps you don't understand how the U.S. justice system works. Prosecutors don't file charges just because they think a person is guilty: they have to be able to prove it. If they recklessly file charges without much proof, the judge may dismiss the case with prejudice, and they'll never be able to file charges again if future evidence comes to light. In the case of Valerie Plame, the Bush administration officials were playing the "I don't remember" card, which makes for a very weak case.

 

[culion]

culion, perhaps you don't understand how the U.S. justice system works. Prosecutors don't file charges just because they think a person is guilty: they have to be able to prove it. If they recklessly file charges without much proof, the judge may dismiss the case with prejudice, and they'll never be able to file charges again if future evidence comes to light. In the case of Valerie Plame, the Bush administration officials were playing the "I don't remember" card, which makes for a very weak case.

I understand perfectly that without a case that can stand up in court one is simply dealing with a belief system which in today's political climate tends to produce conspiracy theories. More importantly, in my view, is the fact that from early on Fitzgerald knew that as a matter of law the required covert conditions did not exist and should have shut the investigation down at that point. Now that the Armitage story is on the front pages and "proven" can we look forward to an indictment? Don't hold your breath. Fitzgerald will not even have to issue a report and attempt to explain his actions. The process is broken.

 

[edward]

Libby was never charged with anything related to the outing of a covert CIA agent only because Fitzgerald doubted that he could prove that Libbly was aware of Plames status at the CIA. Yet for some reason Libby felt the need to lie.

This will be the same situation with Armitage. Armitage and Libby revealed Plames name to different people but Armitage has not lied before a grand Jury.

Patrick Fitzgerald found that Plame had indeed done "covert work overseas" on counterproliferation matters in the past five years, and the CIA "was making specific efforts to conceal" her identity, according to newly released portions of a judge's opinion.

Fitzgerald did consider charging Libby with violating the so-called Espionage Act, which prohibits the disclosure of "national defense information," the papers show; he ended up indicting Libby for lying about when and from whom he learned about Plame.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11179719/site/newsweek/

The system still works. Plame was working on sensitive information regarding IRAN and nuclear weapons. This project was interrupted by Plames outing. Those involved should be held accountable.

 

[culion]

The system still works. Plame was working on sensitive information regarding IRAN and nuclear weapons. This project was interrupted by Plames outing. Those involved should be held accountable.

Plame was working on sensitive information along with a "zillion" other bureaucrats at the CIA. To believe that a major section of the CIA would be disrupted by the loss of one bureaucrat is naive at best and indicates a lack of understanding about staffing and management. The bottom line is that within several months of being appointed, Fitzgerald knew that the IIPA had not been violated in terms of either intent of fact because Plame was simply a bureaucrat at Langley and not a "covert" agent at that point. And now we know that even the leaker did not violate the IIPA. Geez, the whole conspiracy theory is coming apart! The special counsel approach is fatally flawed.

 

[edward]

Plame was working on sensitive information along with a "zillion" other bureaucrats.

She wasn't exactly sitting around counting paper clips. Nor were there a zillion people working on the IRAN nuclear situation.

Geez, the whole conspiracy theory is coming apart.

You are the one suggesting a conspiracy. The investigation was done at the request of the CIA!

The special counsel approach is fatally flawed.

That was what I tought when Ken Star was chasing around after the Clintons. All he ever came up with after spending $40 million was a spot on a blue dress.

Even if Plame had not been working on sensitive information. Her outing was not patriotic at the very least and was also a betrayal of the public trust. It was a very good example of the deviousness of the Bush administration. That is why Libby lied.

 

[culion]

She wasn't exactly sitting around counting paper clips. Nor were there a zillion people working on the IRAN nuclear situation.

Right you are. As I said she was working on sensitive material. And right again not a zillion. I miscounted. It was only a "bunch." Good show. Batting 500.

You are the one suggesting a conspiracy. The investigation was done at the request of the CIA!

You definitely have your facts right this time. Not surprisingly, however, you forgot to mention that the CIA's referral was completely dishonest. There is no doubt that they knew that Plame was not as a matter of law a covert agent. In addition, as required by the law for "spook" types, the CIA did not take actions to protect her identity. Quite an outfit. A strategy that lead to media-led wild-eyed conspiracy theories which will probably never die during my lifetime. Based on the moaning on the blogs, Armitage has created much pain.

That was what I tought when Ken Star was chasing around after the Clintons. All he ever came up with after spending $40 million was a spot on a blue dress.

Agree in large part in re Starr (did I actually say that?).

Even if Plame had not been working on sensitive information. Her outing was not patriotic at the very least and was also a betrayal of the public trust. It was a very good example of the deviousness of the Bush administration. That is why Libby lied.

Of course, she was working on sensitive material but not as a covert agent. Just a grunt at Langley the knowledge of which by non-CIA people does not constitute outing. Because one works on classified material and others know that is the case does not have the slightest to do with patriotism (that has the ring of Move-On). You have not been exposed to situations where people work on classified material. That fact is not a state secret, although the material is. In fact, I heard a rumor the other day that Bush was working on sensitive material. Damn, now I have to call the press and get a special counsel appointed.

Well, Ed, it has been great fun. We have both stated our positions, convinced nobody, as is typical of such web-based exchanges, but now it is time to get a life and Move-On.

 

[edward]

You have not been exposed to situations where people work on classified material.

Actually yes I have, all the way up to top secret. But that was many years ago.
Regards Ed.

 

[Astronuc]

I listened to an interview with Valeria Plame this morning. What a courageous woman!

She has a new book - Fair Game, that addresses her situation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valerie_Plame

What's at stake?

http://www.fairgameplame.com/

 

[Art]

Saw this in the link Astronuc provided -

The Special Counsel’s Confirmation That Valerie Plame Wilson was a Covert Officer

According to a publicly available court document filed by Special Counsel Patrick J. Fitzgerald in United States of America v. I. Lewis Libby, at the time of the initial unauthorized disclosure in the media of Ms. Wilson’s employment relationship with CIA on July 14, 2003, Ms. Wilson was a covert CIA employee for whom the CIA was taking affirmative measures to conceal her intelligence relationship to the United States. She traveled at least seven times to more than ten countries. When traveling overseas, Ms. Wilson always traveled under a cover identity – sometimes in true name and sometimes in alias – but always using cover – whether official or non-official cover (NOC) – with no ostensible relationship to the CIA.

Evidence introduced at the criminal trial of I. Lewis Libby indicated that prior to the “outing” of Ms. Wilson in July 2003, Vice President Richard Cheney knew that she was a CIA officer and had informed Mr. Libby of that fact. On July 2, 2007, President Bush commuted the 30 month prison sentence of I. Lewis Libby.

It also mentions her last overseas intelligence mission was in 2002 which dispels the nonsense spouted of her being a filing clerk outed years ago.

 

[turbo]

She was a NOC. One of the most highly-prized and least-protected assets of the CIA, and Bush/Cheney outed her in retribution for her husband's exposing their flimsy lies about Saddam's nuclear ambitions - a story that was widely discredited overseas while it was being touted and pimped in the US. Bush, Cheney, and everyone else involved in this sordid smear should be facing treason charges. In the last couple of decades it seems that Republicans can commit treason (remember the sale of ground-to-air missiles to the Iranians and the transfer of that money to the mercenaries in Nicagrua?) with impunity. Are we racing toward another facist government?

 

[edward]

She also had young twins at home at the time of the leak.

 

[chemisttree]

To be specific, here is where Plame was working:

According to current and former intelligence officials, Plame Wilson, who worked on the clandestine side of the CIA in the Directorate of Operations as a non-official cover (NOC) officer, was part of an operation tracking distribution and acquisition of weapons of mass destruction technology to and from Iran.

If you believe that, you will believe anything you want to. Do you really think a NOC would report to work at CIA headquarters every day? How ridiculous...

She also says in her latest book that she ... took a different way to work every day for six years!

Yeah, sure...

 

[chemisttree]

When traveling overseas, Ms. Wilson always traveled under a cover identity – sometimes in true name and sometimes in alias – but always using cover – whether official or non-official cover (NOC) – with no ostensible relationship to the CIA.

I'm diagnosing some derangement syndrome. Even when printed in black and white (in the same sentence) you cannot see the lie.

So what does traveling under a cover identity in true name mean? Do you loudly mention to all in earshot that you don't work for the CIA?

 

[edward]

For those of you who just don't get it. Any CIA agent who ever worked under cover should not be outed. It is not only a danger to the operative but to those the operative may have worked with in other countries. Plame wsn't some novice, she was a twenty year veteran of the CIA.

Now watch this video from CBS and see what I mean.

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/20/plames-cia-job-was-to-stop-iran-from-obtaining-nukes/

 

[edward]

If you believe that, you will believe anything you want to. Do you really think a NOC would report to work at CIA headquarters every day? How ridiculous...

She also says in her latest book that she ... took a different way to work every day for six years!

Yeah, sure...

NOC's report to work at the CIA every day. The knock status doesn't necessarily change just because they are working out of an office at Langely. And yes even for six years if there is a possibility that they may be going back and forth to a country where the original NOC had been used.

You can also believe anything you want to.

 

[chemisttree]

Who disclosed that she was an undercover operative?

 

[turbo]

Novak outed her. Judith Miller never produced an article about Plame, but spent some time in jail for refusing to reveal who outed Plame to her. Richard Armitage, Ari Fleischer, Carl Rove and Scooter Libby are known to have told reporters about Plame's work with the CIA, but only Scooter got tagged. He took a bullet for Cheney and the gang, and he'll be well-rewarded when this administration winds down. Libby tried to reverse the flow of information in his testimony, saying that Tim Russert told him that Plame was a CIA agent. That was a bit ridiculous, since the whole second-string of the Bush administration seemed to be piling on her. The number of people who committed treason in this case is astounding. The lack of prosecutions is saddening, and bodes ill for the country. Due to classification, we may never know how many of Plame's assets, associates, or potential recruits were imprisoned, tortured or executed once foreign intelligence agencies got the word that this "businesswoman" who traveled to their countries was actually a CIA NOC agent. We will never know just how much damage the Bushie's did to our intelligence-gathering and our ability to throttle back nuclear proliferation (her mission in the CIA).

 

[chemisttree]

Ooohh, sorry. Wrong answer. Novak only indicated that she worked at CIA. Joe Wilson disclosed that she was covert...

 

[edward]

Ooohh, sorry. Wrong answer. Novak only indicated that she worked at CIA. Joe Wilson disclosed that she was covert...

But Wilson did not do that until 2004. She was outed on July 14 03. It didn't matter what Wilson said by that time. Plame's outing and picture had been all over the news media for months.


And just to clarify your understatement.

Novak reported that the wife of former Ambassador Joseph C. Wilson is “an Agency operative on weapons of mass destruction"

"worked at" and "Agency operative on WMD" are two very different job descriptions. Janitors work there.

I don't get your point. Are you stating that Plames outing was OK because the information came from the Vice Presidents office? Or are you just nit picking details?

btw turbo-1's post did not even include the term covert.

 

[Art]

I'm diagnosing some derangement syndrome. Even when printed in black and white (in the same sentence) you cannot see the lie.

So what does traveling under a cover identity in true name mean? Do you loudly mention to all in earshot that you don't work for the CIA?

Under a cover identity in true name is self explanatory. Spies don't always wear disguises and use alliases

Travelling with her husband gave her the cover identity - that is plain Mrs Wilson, there only because her husband is - to undertake covert missions on behalf of her gov't who then shafted her.

 

[chemisttree]

Being married to a US ambassador is a TERRIBLE cover. They are the first to be suspected of espionage by the other side.

Travelling with her husband gave her the cover identity - that is plain Mrs Wilson, there only because her husband is - to undertake covert missions on behalf of her gov't who then shafted her.

Now that's just funny!