REAL girl trouble i feel horrible

[Moonbear]

so do i call her tonight? she had a soccer tournament today, 3 games... I could ask her how it went.

Sounds like a good excuse.

(she won't let me go to her games because apparently she can't play knowing that people are there to watch her...this has been like this from day 1 its nothing new to me)

Ever consider sneaking in without her knowing you're there? For instance, just show up for the second half or something, where you know she's already too occupied on the field to notice you're there so you don't mess up her game, then just meet her after the game and tell her how much you enjoyed seeing her play.

 

[rocketboy]

Ever consider sneaking in without her knowing you're there? For instance, just show up for the second half or something, where you know she's already too occupied on the field to notice you're there so you don't mess up her game, then just meet her after the game and tell her how much you enjoyed seeing her play.

I think about it every time she has a game... maybe she would secretly be really happy I went. I will do it soon, my friend's gf is on the same team and he ALWAYS goes to their games. That hurts too, he always comes home telling me about the game... and I wish I could have been there.

 

[rocketboy]

I am so lost right now, I have no idea what I am going to do or when I am going to do it.

 

[FrogPad]

Playing games is basically trickery, a.k.a. head games. It's when you start messing with someone's head and acting differently than the way you feel to try to blackmail them back into a relationship. It's the way abusive relationships start.

I really dissagree with this statement. When one first enters a relationship especially when younger, it is easy to really fall hard and fast for someone, and this in turn can be very one sided.

For example, let's say it has been awhile since I've been with a girl. I'm out at the bar and I meet someone, we hit it off. Our conversation is amazing, so the next day I call her, and we get together. Again we have an amazing time; such an amazing time that it gets intimate. The next day I call her, and she doesn't answer. Should I then call her again the next hour? I really want too. I really liked this girl. I haven't met someone like that in awhile, maybe not even ever. I seriously want to spend as much time with her as possible.

ummm no. You have to play the game. You can't always act the way you feel. There are laws against that. Just the same way that their are basic relationship laws, and they have to be obeyed, or rather, played.

Abusive relationships start by abusive people. When babies smile for attention when they are young to gain their mothers affection are they "tricking" the mother into their wants? No, they are learning boundaries and human behavior. The same logic applies in relationships. Somtimes not calling all the time is the same as that babies smile. It's not trickery, it's learning how to have, or maybe it's better to say, start a relationship.

 

[Omega_6]

I have to agree with Frogpad here. Relationships between teens are not the same as relationships between mature adults. You have to keep cool and stay independent until you both are seriously committed to each other. It just takes time.

On a side note. Many guys are much more mature about relationships at the teen level than girls are. This isn't true of all of them...but there are definitely more guys than girls. Thats why after the first time a guy gets in a serious relationship and gets hurt from just trying to show the girl how he feels, he will later resort to playing "games".

 

[Moonbear]

ummm no. You have to play the game. You can't always act the way you feel.

That's not game playing, that's just being a normal, non-obsessive human. When people talk about playing games in relationships, they mean playing head games, the psychological subterfuge some people use to hang onto someone who really isn't right for them anyway. I think you just misunderstand how the term is used. It's not referring to just being a decent, polite person, which is really all that you described. For example, not calling so often that you become a pest is just showing respect, not game-playing. Game-playing is stuff like going out of your way to make sure your significant other sees you flirting with someone else to make them jealous and pay more attention to you, and plenty of immature people do that...it doesn't lead to any sort of healthy relationship, it leads to something superficial built on jealousy and insecurity. When someone says, "I'm tired of games, I just want someone who doesn't play games," they don't mean they're looking for someone who calls every hour on the hour to leave a voicemail message because they are showing their impatience in waiting for a reply, they mean they don't want someone who's going to pretend they don't care to try to get an upper-hand from someone who craves attention.

 

[FrogPad]

I think you just misunderstand how the term is used

I think we are just arguing semantics here. I have a different definition then yours, which doesn't make it any less or more correct.

The constant calling (to the point of being a pest) was an example, a little bit on the extreme side. I can't tell you how many times I've been in conversations with people who are like, "should I call her?... should I call her?... it's been a day"

And I tell them they have to play the game in the beginning. Many times people don't think they are being out of line calling once a day each day. They truly like the other individual and want to talk to them. I mean once a day doesn't sound pesky, but really, when you hardly know someone it is.

If you think of (at least the beginning stages) a relationship as a game, then I believe you better your odds. In a game the goal is to win. When you start dating, the goal is to win. In a game you make moves that better your odds to the prize. Some people have a twisted reality on what that prize should be, and other have an even more disturbing concept of acceptable moves. I think if you play the game and you are a decent person, which the OP seems to be, then there is nothing wrong with thinking of it in these terms. Afterall, shouldn't we be trying to better our probability of success with actions?

...plenty of immature people do that...it doesn't lead to any sort of healthy relationship

I definitely agree with you. I haven't really disagreed with anything you've said.

"Hey jailbird, ready for your conjugal visit?" If she laughs, you've made progress, if she glares at you like this -> then drop it. And if she blushes, leans over, kisses you and whispers a seductive answer in your ear, then take Zooby's advice!

By the way. I loved this advice. I mean, I would definitely not say "Hey jailbird, ready for your conjugal visit?". This really depends on the girl though. You should know what to say depending on them. Some people like to hear things straightforward. Such as, while making out and in the moment, just drop the question. "So do you want to go all the way?" (I wouldn't personally say that... cause that's not what I do. I'm straightforward with my terminology also, and some people can't pull that off. This will especially depend on the girl. Saying "So, do you want to have sex?" might make a girl upset, when she would rather hear it called love).

I think the important part of what you said is not the actual "one liner", but the "if she laughs, you've made progress". A laugh is a good thing! Almost always. A glare IS NOT. A blush is a sign of "give me affection". I usually take the cold shoulder as I'm giving her too much of what she wants, time to back off.


But back to the OP. rocketboy so what's up with you? You confused as hell? Got a gameplan ( couldn't resist)?

 

[rocketboy]

But back to the OP. rocketboy so what's up with you? You confused as hell? Got a gameplan ( couldn't resist)?

I just woke up...I went to bed at 7am this morning and had about an hour of sleep so after my last post I went to "lie down and think things over" and I woke up now.

Yea, I'm confused as hell. No, don't ahve a gameplan. I htink I'll start by going upstairs and eating some steak. Fathers day dinner, got to put on a good face for the family.

 

[FrogPad]

good call. damn a steak sounds really good right now

I might have to just stop by the grochery store on my way home from the library :)

 

[rocketboy]

ok, it's 9:30ish, if I'm going to call her it has to be in the next 15 minutes I think. I make a rule of not calling past 10:00pm.

So, do I call or not? I guess I should go with my gut feeling here...

 

[rocketboy]

i called, the line was busy. I'm glad. She has exams this week, I was talking to a friend of mine who goes to ehr school in her grade and knows her and he suggested i let her be, because she is huge on good grades and stressed for this week. Maybe I will be able to see her this weekend after she has finished school and I can do somethign really special for her to celebrate her being done. I don't know.

 

[Cyrus]

just an aside, you seem to really bust your a** and do a lot for this girl. Does she put in this much effort for you as well?

 

[nsimmons]

Listen to frogpad and omega,

back to rule 1
Dont take advice about women from women.

Quit calling her! Be a man, go out with your friends, leave her alone. Quit chasing and let her come to you. If you bug her all the time she's going to think you're a looser with nothing better to do. If youre 'busy' she's going to think youre someone important whos busy and has things on the go.

You need to realize that she can have a boyfriend anytime she wants, she has inifinite options, you need to make her think you're her best choice. Youre going to drive her away.

You ever think to yourself, "If she really wanted to see me she would be calling?"

If she's not initiating contact, your not a priority right now. I know it sucks and it hurts, and I've been there, but if your'e patient and let her come to you it will be so much sweeter.

There is nothing mean sneaky or underhanded about my advice. People want what they can't have. If your so easy to get she won't want you. Why is it hurting you so much right now? Because you CANT have what you want? It works both ways. Make her miss you!

Dont make plans, don't buy her crap don't be romantic. When she comes to you, be funny and charming and have fun. Then leave her alone again until she wants more. People fall in love when they're alone and miss their partner.

I had a girlfriend when I was 23 who would call me every day sometimes a couple times a day for a year , then she'd call less and less and it'd be week before I heard from her. Her excuse was she was tired or busy or whatever. But her life hadnt changed. I just wasnt a priority anymore. She became bored. Then i tried to do everything I had done at the start to appease her. Which to her was more of the same and the entire thing backfired. I tried to patch it together for almost another year but it ended ugly.

I treated her better than anyone ever had, she was 6 years older btw. She told me constantly how good i was to her and how good i was for her, but she just didnt 'feel' that way anymore and she didnt know why. I now know and do my best to prevent stagnation.

There is no reason or logic here, it is instinctual. Learn from my mistakes and save yourself the pain.

And contrary to the insinuation that I am a player, a single guy who can't get a date, Quagmeyer. I keep one relationship going at a time, I've always been faithful respectful, and never abusive.

If youre going to date more than one person you need to be upfront youre seeing other people and when something gets serious focus attention on one.

 

[Moonbear]

back to rule 1
Dont take advice about women from women.

You realize if he listened to that, he wouldn't have gotten to the first date with her in one piece, right?

Quit calling her! Be a man, go out with your friends, leave her alone. Quit chasing and let her come to you. If you bug her all the time she's going to think you're a looser with nothing better to do. If youre 'busy' she's going to think youre someone important whos busy and has things on the go.

It hardly sounds like he's bugging her all the time. They hardly see each other. But, that's some great advice there...if you want to break up with her. For FrogPad, the above is an example of what I call game playing, of the variety that people get sick and tired of pretty darn quickly. That's the sort of dating advice you can get out of magazine articles, of course, if their advice worked, you wouldn't need to buy the magazine next month for new dating advice.

 

[nsimmons]

See Rule #1

If he can't get a date on his own he has much larger problems

 

[Omega_6]

If anyone here honestly believes that one piece of advice will work for ALL women, then you are misguided. There are always exceptions to the rules. Moonbear, you would be surprised that there are girls who fit nsimmon's descriptions quite nicely. Most of these are teenage girls of this generation. I know for a fact that I dated a girl similar to this last year, I was just as surprised as you are that anyone can act like this. There are plenty of girls who aren't like this...but rocketboy should take the pieces of advice that he feels would apply to his situation and use them accordingly. We really have no way of knowing what the problem really is here...or if there even is a problem other than the girl being stressed and overworked. But it is a possibility that this case may be related to what nsimmons is saying.

Please note that I am not saying to play games...but showing too much emotion can be a bad thing. Sometimes it is best to just sit back and see how things turn out...the situation that rocketboy is in is very sensitive.

As for taking advice from other women, it is no different from accepting advice from anybody. Women do not know what ALL women want, just the same as men do not know what all women want.

 

[Evo]

I think we are just arguing semantics here. I have a different definition then yours, which doesn't make it any less or more correct. If you think of (at least the beginning stages) a relationship as a game, then I believe you better your odds.

Playing "games" at ANY stage in a relationship is stupid, immature, irresponsible and fake.

It will result in a bad relationship based on "games". You obviously have never experienced a real relationship. Once you have, you will stop playing amateur games.

 

[nsimmons]

but rocketboy should take the pieces of advice that he feels would apply to his situation and use them accordingly.

Good advice

The better looking a girl is the more my advice applies. Weve had this discussion before. They seem to think I am making it up as I go...

 

[Moonbear]

Most of these are teenage girls of this generation. I know for a fact that I dated a girl similar to this last year, I was just as surprised as you are that anyone can act like this.

And are you still with her? Would you say it was worth playing games to keep her? Yes, there are people who play games, and who fall for them, but what I'm trying to explain is that it doesn't make for a lasting relationship. If that's what you have to resort to, cut your losses and get the heck out. People listen too much to those "The Rules" type books and Oprah and Dr. Phil, and not enough to their own heart and gut.

As the full story has emerged, it really sounds like she's just plain stressed out about a lot of things going on right now. Just have to ride it out and see what happens. Now we learn on top of everything else that she has exams this week. Adding to her stress by playing games isn't going to help anything.

By the way, technically, they're adults. My parents met at their age, and my sister met her husband at that age too, so it's not too young to be in a serious relationship.

 

[Omega_6]

I am not saying to play games. But for me, just letting the girl figure out what she wanted without me calling her and apoligizing for something that I shouldn't be apologizing about showed me what I was getting myself into. So no, I am not with her anymore, but this relationship showed me how to act in later relationships. I just keep my cool for a lot longer until I know that we are both ready to be so serious. Again, I am not saying that this applies here, it could be no big deal in this situation. But you should know that there are girls who are like nsimmons says...it has nothing to do with any dating magazines.

While they are certainly old enough to have a serious relationship, they may not be ready (some people are "old" enough at this age and some aren't).

 

[Evo]

I think the whole point here is that if you need to act unnatural in order to win or keep someone, it's not going to work in the long run and it's going to be a source of continual unhappiness.

 

[nsimmons]

See rule 1

No ones talking about acting unnatural, we are talking about not placing so much priority on one person.

 

[Omega_6]

I think the whole point here is that if you need to act unnatural in order to win or keep someone, it's not going to work in the long run and it's going to be a source of continual unhappiness.

Correct, but sometimes it is hard to realize this when you feel like you are in love with a person, even if the relationship causes you to be unhappy. You are so happy and depressed at the same time.

 

[Evo]

Correct, but sometimes it is hard to realize this when you feel like you are in love with a person, even if the relationship causes you to be unhappy. You are so happy and depressed at the same time.

Absolutely agree. Love inundates your brain with a chemical soup making rational choices almost impossible. Why do you think I am all alone? But in hindsight, I'm brilliant.

 

[nsimmons]

The question to be asked is how many of the women here have dated young women? That should show flat out their experience level.

This is no different that asking a layperson to design an automobile based on what they think is a good car. Havent we all seen Homers bubble mobile?

He should get off this forum and talk to his dad.

 

[FrogPad]

I think we are just arguing semantics here. I have a different definition then yours, which doesn't make it any less or more correct. If you think of (at least the beginning stages) a relationship as a game, then I believe you better your odds.

Playing "games" at ANY stage in a relationship is stupid, immature, irresponsible and fake.

It will result in a bad relationship based on "games". You obviously have never experienced a real relationship. Once you have, you will stop playing amateur games.

What a harsh comment to make. Have I made anything remotely similar to this? For one thing, you don't know me, you don't know who I've been with, who I've loved, or how many relationships I've been in.

There is nothing amateur about ones methodology in relationships if it does not impose upon the safety, feelings, or general well being of others. My understanding of the game (which women HATE to hear) is based upon my past relationships. For you to sum them up as amateur is a low blow.

I've been in love, a girl who meant everything to me, which lasted almost 2 1/2 years (hint: I'm young, so this means more), who I thought I would be with forever. I've had many flings. I've had many "friends". I've been with people that I hate. I've been with people who are ok. But, for you to trivialize my relationships as amateur, let alone insinuate my love as not being real, is an insult.

 

[Omega_6]

Absolutely agree. Love inundates your brain with a chemical soup making rational choices almost impossible. Why do you think I am all alone? But in hindsight, I'm brilliant.

You know, I have test scores that prove that this is true. One while in love (not good love), and one while being free.

 

[Evo]

What a harsh comment to make. Have I made anything remotely similar to this? For one thing, you don't know me, you don't know who I've been with, who I've loved, or how many relationships I've been in.

There is nothing amateur about ones methodology in relationships if it does not impose upon the safety, feelings, or general well being of others. My understanding of the game (which women HATE to hear) is based upon my past relationships. For you to sum them up as amateur is a low blow.

I've been in love, a girl who meant everything to me, which lasted almost 2 1/2 years (hint: I'm young, so this means more), who I thought I would be with forever. I've had many flings. I've had many "friends". I've been with people that I hate. I've been with peole who are ok. But, for you to trivialize my relationships as amateur, let alone insinuate my love as not being real, is an insult.

Sorry you feel that that way, but to trivialize personal relationships and advise people to intentionally "play games" with another person's heart, to me, is a terrible thing.

I was only 16 when a boy that thought he was in love with me commited suicide because of me. Try dealing with that.

 

[FrogPad]

Wow. Are we going to get into a who got hurt more battle?

If you've read anything that I've posted, you would realize that it's not the typical Mens Health magazine style. You just hate the word "game".

...but to trivialize personal relationships...

Would you rather I state that personal relationships are magical?

People don't magically fall in love. People don't magically stay together.

 

[Evo]

Wow. Are we going to get into a who got hurt more battle?

No, people need to realize how serious this can get.

If you've read anything that I've posted, you would realize that it's not the typical Mens Health magazine style. You just hate the word "game".

No, I think that being anything less than honest isn't right. If you are a possesive person, tyring to mask that temporarily in order to keep somone is wrong, it will eventually errupt, and possibly in a a very nasty way.

Would you rather I state that personal relationships are magical?

People don't magically fall in love. People don't magically stay together.

True, and if it's based on lies, it's that much worse.

 

[zoobyshoe]

i have to bring our relationship back before I can propose anything like that I think. or maybe taht will bring us back? I wouldn't know.

how do you bring up a topic like that?

If you somehow patch it up with her, I'm saying, things will end the same way unless something is different. This could well be the thing she wanted to be different. Alot of young girls can't express this too directly and expect you to be sensitive to their less direct green lights. It seems to me that kissing you and saying you were the best was a kind of blanket green light. She was probably giving you permission to proceed, without discussion, unless or until she put up a red light. Her initial, verbal "I'm not ready," isn't something you can always expect to be overturned by a direct, verbal "I'm ready." The "I'm ready" comes in the form of favorable responses to escalations in physical intimacy on your part.

 

[Pyrrhus]

I read most of everyone's replies and think everyone is overanalyzing. Hey, Rocketboy, the true for every relationship is that they most evolve, sometimes they just get caught on tecnicalities and die off. That's something you must understand. By the way, when i mean evolve is move to the next step (more commitment, and the final step being marriage).

Here's some general advice by me:

1) Don't take advice about relationships in your youth from girls (no matter their age)

2) Don't bother yourself about escalating relationship-wise. Men escalate physically (make her feel comfortable, create a connection, etc...). Therefore, you agree to get in a relationship only if you feel like it.

3) Be prepared for relationships to end (relationships go forward, and if they can't go on, they will die). You don't know when it's going to happen, but it will happen!. Frankly, what i do to ease the pain, it's to always keep some possible girls around and definately have fun with your buddies.

4) Always look your best (workout, dress with your own style, etc...). Focus on the big triangle (Wealth, Health and Happiness)

For your relationship:

Well, i still stand by 50-50. It means you've to let her chase. Anyway here what i will do in your case. I will go to her and tell her:

"You know I've been thinking recently about us, about our relationship, about what's to come. I know what we have is like a beautiful spark that keeps on shining. I know we should fight for this, fight to keep this special love we have for each other. Trust me, no matter what's to come, our love will survive." or something like these, be careful with what you say, you don't want to make it look, like you'll wait around for her forever.

After you say something along those lines in a comfortable setting (a surprise outing, perhaps?), break contact with her (let her think things throught, and then make a decision). She knows your stance. Well, Good luck.

If you somehow patch it up with her, I'm saying, things will end the same way unless something is different. This could well be the thing she wanted to be different. Alot of young girls can't express this too directly and expect you to be sensitive to their less direct green lights. It seems to me that kissing you and saying you were the best was a kind of blanket green light. She was probably giving you permission to proceed, without discussion, unless or until she put up a red light. Her initial, verbal "I'm not ready," isn't something you can always expect to be overturned by a direct, verbal "I'm ready." The "I'm ready" comes in the form of favorable responses to escalations in physical intimacy on your part.

I like zoobyshoe's thinking. That's why men's focus is escalating physically. You don't choose to stop, she does, and it doesn't mean you can't escalate later on (be seconds, minutes, hours or days). Don't wait too long. Also, remember never force her, just be smooth.

Here's something that works for me. It's called the two forward and one backwards. When you're "escalating", and she blocks you (grabs your hands, push them away, etc...) you go back to what she was letting you do, give it a couple minutes, and proceed not to where you were at, but the next place on the list.

 

[zoobyshoe]

I like zoobyshoe's thinking. That's why men's focus is escalating physically. You don't choose to stop, she does, and it doesn't mean you can't escalate later on (be seconds, minutes, hours or days). Don't wait too long. Also, remember never force her, just be smooth.

That's right. Stop lights are temporary unless she dumps you for reving your engine at one (which usually means she wasn't attracted). If she is sticking with you, then they'll change later.

 

[J77]

Genius first post!

Someone probably said it already... Perhaps she got seasick

It may seem like REAL trouble at the mo' but that's life for you

 

[Astronuc]

He should get off this forum and talk to his dad.

Now that is something with which I agree. One should (or should be able to) talk to one's parents on such matters.

As for "games", it is one thing to play games (in the context of pretense or manipulation), and it is quite another matter to be playful or romantic.

When I think of "playing games", I generally think in the context of which Moonbear and Evo have mentioned. I would never 'play' with someone's feelings. I have always been careful although not necessarily successful with regard to protecting another's feelings. That was largely because I was not sure of my feelings, or I simply couldn't provide the relationship that the woman (women) wanted.