Should I Become a Mathematician?

[JasonRox]

I plan on working in the finance/accounting field while doing academia as a hobby. It might not be the most productive way to do research, but I'll actually be able to live comfortably, or that's the plan.

The city I plan on moving to is Vancouver which has two universities, UBC and SFU. Which is good. Once I land a job (I need to make money first), I will talk to the professors of interest and see if they'll take me on as a part-time graduate student. I think they would be interested because they wouldn't need any funding. I can pay for my own schooling. They can give the open TA jobs to other TA's which attract more graduate students (or better ones).

I'll see how that works out. I'm really excited to be done my undergraduate. I've been dying to meet people (my age) that are as excited about learning mathematics as I am.

 

[J77]

Careful with the part-time thing.

From what I've seen, the only way to produce an effective PhD is full-time.

For example, you could find it very hard to keep up with developments in the field doing it part-time, plus you don't have the same, crucially important, interaction with your peers.

I'd say, if you really want to do it, live like a pauper and go full-time!

 

[mathwonk]

UBC math dept is great. I know Jim Bryan, James Carrell, Zinovy Reichstein, William Casselman, among others. J77 you may be right, but i think he'll figure out the details as he goes along.

however, once most people start making a living they seldom want to return to poverty!

 

[J77]

however, once most people start making a living they seldom want to return to poverty!

Exactly.

And, making a living really doesn't leave you much time for much else

 

[mathwonk]

i am reminded of the untenured faculty member who lost his job when i was hired, went to industry, and returned to visit about three years later making triple my salary. he was not at all sad, nor desirous of getting his job back.

 

[JasonRox]

Careful with the part-time thing.

From what I've seen, the only way to produce an effective PhD is full-time.

For example, you could find it very hard to keep up with developments in the field doing it part-time, plus you don't have the same, crucially important, interaction with your peers.

I'd say, if you really want to do it, live like a pauper and go full-time!

Well, I'm going for my Master's first. I'll worry about the Ph.D details later.

I think I will have more time for other things if I make a good living. Once I get on my feet, and employers see how good I am, I can start asking for many vacations. If they don't want to offer me that, I'll just start looking for another job that will. My goal is to find a job by the time I'm 30 that will give me 6 weeks of vacation a year. I don't care if 4 of those weeks are not paid.

Also, I'll be able to go see the Olympics coming up rather than be broke and can't afford it. Take trips to California or weekend trips to Whistler or Banff. All kinds of things I can do. Another thing is that I would have the means to travel across the US to all kinds of mathematic conferences and meet all kinds of people. Otherwise, I'd be a graduate student sitting at home eating ramen noodles.

I also would like to retire early. I would like to save and invest and build wealth so I can do the things I enjoy even more. Maybe even hire my own graduate student to do work for me and find articles that would interest me. That would save me lots of time. And since graduate students may be desparate for money, it might not be too expensive either!

I thought about this long and hard, and I don't think I can handle living below poverty or at the poverty. I have health needs that I have to make sure they're met and I doubt being a graduate student will help me do that. What if my hearing aid breaks? Now what? Buying a new one isn't cheap, and so on.

 

[JasonRox]

Exactly.

And, making a living really doesn't leave you much time for much else

That's false. Many people do nothing with their lives... which means they have lots of time.

A 9-5pm job from Monday to Friday is hardly considered life consuming.

 

[mathwonk]

we just don't know how to relate to people making a decent salary. my older son went into industry with an undergraduate math degree, and about two years after i gave him the toyota i had myself been driving at the age of 60, he traded it for a bmw M3 well before he turned 30.

 

[JasonRox]

we just don't know how to relate to people making a decent salary. my older son went into industry with his undergraduate math degree, and about two years after i gave him the toyota i had myself been driving at the age of 60, he traded it for a bmw M3 well before he turned 30.

That's crazy.

 

[Ronnin]

It's good to see I'm not the only finance guy on here. It seems like anyone who majors in anything business related kinda gets different looks from the science/math majors (Everyone in my Uni Phys class just couldn't understand why I would want to take that vs. something easier). I too enjoy math very much and have found that yes there are programs for people like us who like counting and allocating beans AND enjoy higher level math, Financial Math. It seems a few colleges are offering this as a masters program. Hopefully, more will pick this program up.

 

[JasonRox]

It's good to see I'm not the only finance guy on here. It seems like anyone who majors in anything business related kinda gets different looks from the science/math majors (Everyone in my Uni Phys class just couldn't understand why I would want to take that vs. something easier). I too enjoy math very much and have found that yes there are programs for people like us who like counting and allocating beans AND enjoy higher level math, Financial Math. It seems a few colleges are offering this as a masters program. Hopefully, more will pick this program up.

I'm taking a Theory to Financial Mathematics this year. I'll see how that goes.

I plan on doing my Master's in something like Algebraic Topology or something with that area. It's so interesting. Or maybe even Number Theory, I just have to see how I like the course this year. I might do my Honours Thesis in Number Theory. Not sure.

 

[J77]

That's false. Many people do nothing with their lives... which means they have lots of time.

A 9-5pm job from Monday to Friday is hardly considered life consuming.

Have you done such a job? (By which I mean salary based and not what you've done in the holidays.)

Also, and this goes back to what I said before, a PhD should be 9-5. I know a lot of people in the UK who worked much harder than this to get it done within 3-4 years, and they didn't have the extra burden of a lot of courses and teaching which you have over in NA.

I'm not trying to put you off -- I just want to give you my opinion that part-time PhDs are very hard to manage.

we just don't know how to relate to people making a decent salary. my older son went into industry with his undergraduate math degree, and about two years after i gave him the toyota i had myself been driving at the age of 60, he traded it for a bmw M3 well before he turned 30.

He'd off have it before he turned 21 if he'd have gone into banking -- from his golden handshake alone

 

[JasonRox]

Have you done such a job? (By which I mean salary based and not what you've done in the holidays.)

Yes, I've even worked a consistent 35 hours a week for nearly 4 years while going to school full-time. I did it. I still had extra time to dick around.

So, to take one course at a time while working 9-5pm, (MASTER'S not Ph.D) seems entirely doable for sure. I will most likely not take the thesis route, so technically, all I have to do is one course at a time until I'm done. If I can't manage one course while working 9-5pm, that's literally ****ed up because I literally have like 5 hours of study time every night from Monday to Friday and like 12+hours on the weekend. And a friend of mine is taking 3 in the fall, if you can't handle one with all that time, no one can handle 3 no matter what you're doing. I'm honestly not nervous about it at all. He plans on partying too, so honestly no worries. I dicked around in undergrad so much, so if I assume that one grad course is like taking 4 undergraduate courses, I can do it since I already did it while working full-time!

If one is tough, just think how dumb it would sound if you quit a full-time job to manage one Master's course. Seriously, you'll look like a moron. That's just messed up. What do you do when you take 3 since life obviously does not have enough time for that since one requires your full attention, so what does 3 require?

Honestly, I'll ask my mentor/advisor about it. I hardly consider it something to be worried about. Obviously some people might think it's dumb because I'm not doing it like everyone else, but you know what, I want to make a living.

 

[marlon]

I plan on working in the finance/accounting field while doing academia as a hobby.

Great choice on the financial field but why care about doin' research in your spare time. Use it to grow in the financial areas. There is a lot to learn there is well. In your case, don't waste your time doing some obscure research that will get you noweher. Most "fulltime" PhD's out there are not even able to produce something useful so why bother ?

Really, stick to the financial maths and your life will be much nicer !

marlon

 

[J77]

So, to take one course at a time while working 9-5pm, (MASTER'S not Ph.D) seems entirely doable for sure. I will most likely not take the thesis route, so technically, all I have to do is one course at a time until I'm done.

Oh -- you want to take Masters courses not write a thesis :shrugs:

 

[MathematicalPhysicist]

i would think that writing a thesis with taking courses and working from 9 to 5 to be a little bit hard on oneself, don't you J77?

 

[mathwonk]

I am very happy to have all these diverse ideas about how to use math in life and career, to balance off my narrow discussions of life in the "ivory tower" and classroom.

Keep em coming! What other careers are appealing?

 

[mathwonk]

to learn what it feels like to be a mathematician, watch "the twilight samurai". [warning: it is rather violent. The point was that it concerns someone of superior ability and integrity but low social status.]

 

[Kummer]

I spend between 8 and 9 hours a day studying mathematics. I do not go outside. I do not watch TV. I do not have much time for anything.

Does that qualify me as a "mathematician"?

 

[JasonRox]

I spend between 8 and 9 hours a day studying mathematics. I do not go outside. I do not watch TV. I do not have much time for anything.

Does that qualify me as a "mathematician"?

All that for one course?

If not, don't compare my one course idea to a 2 course or 3 course schedule.

 

[JasonRox]

Great choice on the financial field but why care about doin' research in your spare time. Use it to grow in the financial areas. There is a lot to learn there is well. In your case, don't waste your time doing some obscure research that will get you noweher. Most "fulltime" PhD's out there are not even able to produce something useful so why bother ?

Really, stick to the financial maths and your life will be much nicer !

marlon

I really enjoyed the Topology and Algebra that I have learned. So, that's why I will do it on my spare time.

If it does consume too much time, I'll just audit courses and do my own thing. I never plan on stopping. I just want to live in poverty doing it. It's not worth it.

 

[Kummer]

All that for one course?

I have Summer break now, no University. I self-study for fun all those hours.

 

[JasonRox]

I have Summer break now, no University. I self-study for fun all those hours.

I guess no offsprings for you.

 

[MathematicalPhysicist]

fanatic, kummer aren't you?
I mean i also in my vacation would learn on my own some stuff, but still i would go sometimes outside my house, especially when in the semester I don't have time to do so.

 

[MathematicalPhysicist]

I guess no offsprings for you.

he can always go the near sperm bank... (-:
but he first needs to go outside the house.

 

[Kummer]

fanatic, kummer aren't you?

Yes, I am. But that is because there are certains areas of math I wish to know which are not taught in the University and there is also a lot of stuff which I want to know. If I do something else with my time then I will not know what I want.

 

[mathwonk]

remember to get some exercise, good food, and sunlight kummer, if only because you can do more math if you stay physically healthy.

 

[MathematicalPhysicist]

Im not sure sunlight in the summer is a good idea.
preferablly you should go in the morning or the evening.

 

[JasonRox]

Im not sure sunlight in the summer is a good idea.
preferablly you should go in the morning or the evening.

Well, he needs to get some Vitamin D that's for sure.

I personally think you need to live a little (like get out of the house). I noticed, on here and elsewhere, people think that hardcore mathematicians have no active social life and all they do is work all day. I would say that's not true at all although there are exceptions like Gauss and Riemann. But look at Galois, Hardy, Littlewood, Halmos, Erdos, Galileo and so on. So where these ideas come from, I don't know but I do know they're far from accurate.

 

[radou]

people think that hardcore mathematicians have no active social life and all they do is work all day. I would say that's not true at all although there are exceptions like Gauss and Riemann.

That's true, and it's what people thing about other scientists too, not just mathematicians.

In general, I don't interact with people who believe in stereotypes.

 

[mathwonk]

the problem is that mathematicians have to be careful when they go out, so as not to be mobbed by women and paparrazzi.

 

[pivoxa15]

Well, he needs to get some Vitamin D that's for sure.

I personally think you need to live a little (like get out of the house). I noticed, on here and elsewhere, people think that hardcore mathematicians have no active social life and all they do is work all day. I would say that's not true at all although there are exceptions like Gauss and Riemann. But look at Galois, Hardy, Littlewood, Halmos, Erdos, Galileo and so on. So where these ideas come from, I don't know but I do know they're far from accurate.

There could be genuine reasons why past great mathematicians interact and socialise so much less then today's mathematicians. In the past traveling would have been expensive and time consuming and education was poor so not many people had the expertise so meeting other mathematicians were harder and not that beneficial. Knowledge didn't spread that quickly as not many were doing it so one can afford to work alone. Moreoever Copy right was a servere issue back then. So it would have been more beneficial for the best to be alone. Hence no need to develop one's social skills in order to succeed at maths.

Today things are much different as fields are more specialised so collaboration is more important and is cheaper to do due to cheap communication costs. However there are still a handful of elites who can and choose to do it alone like Perelman. For the rest its more beneficial to collaborate so more social interactions for mathematicians today.

 

[Werg22]

Well, my take is that the percentage of introverts in the mathematical community far exceeds that of the normal population since introverts tend to spend more time thinking than extroverts and thus have greater affinity for heavily abstract subject such as mathematics.

 

[JasonRox]

Well, my take is that the percentage of introverts in the mathematical community far exceeds that of the normal population since introverts tend to spend more time thinking than extroverts and thus have greater affinity for heavily abstract subject such as mathematics.

The most intelligent student in our math departments are introverted/extroverted or extroverted. Probably one the best things about the department. I would hate to hang out with an introvert.

 

[JasonRox]

There could be genuine reasons why past great mathematicians interact and socialise so much less then today's mathematicians. In the past traveling would have been expensive and time consuming and education was poor so not many people had the expertise so meeting other mathematicians were harder and not that beneficial. Knowledge didn't spread that quickly as not many were doing it so one can afford to work alone. Moreoever Copy right was a servere issue back then. So it would have been more beneficial for the best to be alone. Hence no need to develop one's social skills in order to succeed at maths.

Today things are much different as fields are more specialised so collaboration is more important and is cheaper to do due to cheap communication costs. However there are still a handful of elites who can and choose to do it alone like Perelman. For the rest its more beneficial to collaborate so more social interactions for mathematicians today.

I have no idea what you're talking about because I mentionned mathematicians of the past and today.

Perelman is not choosing to be alone. I believe he's anti-social, so that's not a choice at that point. It's a disorder.