Star Trek: 40 Years of Inspiring Young Minds

[turbo]

As soon as I get a transporter I'll send them right over.

Apparently you have one of the newer replicators with the latinum-block programming in place. How much do you need?

 

[Janus]

For anyone interested in the "nuts and bolts" of the making of the original series, I highly recommend:
The Making of Star Trek by Stephen E. Whitfield and Gene Roddenberry.
An excellent look at the inner workings of the show. (Including such tidbits as the story that showed what lengths Leonard Nimoy would go to in order to get pencils for his secretary.)

 

[Ivan Seeking]

One thing about what Turbo said. I think with TNG, Trek did begin to evolve into a space opera. In the original, one never knew what to expect. Of course, this was partly a blessing of its short life. In TNG, however, and especially near the end, and certainly in the other series, I think they ran out of ideas. For one, they went way too far with the Klingon death, pain, mourning etc rituals. I mean, come on, how many Klingon songs can we tolerate?? They got far to involved with developing the cultures and interpersonal relationships, and lost focus on what made Trek unique - the ideas and the vision.

I also remember noticing the lack of creativity, for example, when Troi and Crusher were seen working out; doing stretching, and wearing clothing, typical of ~1990. I think this was in the episode "Sub Rosa". What, no tachyon emitter to grow the muscles? No holographic environment to entertain while challenging? I remember thinking that this could be a scene from any modern aerobics class. How boring!

I didn't watch every episode of the later series as I did with Trek, and TNG. Voyager and DS 9 were okay, but they really were space operas more than anything. In fact, sitting here, I can't think of one truly new idea produced by either show. And I had high hopes for Enterprise since I liked Bakula from Quantum Leap, but I have only watched about a half dozen episodes. I think the lesson there was that you can't go back. Any future Trek will have to be forward looking if it is to capture the essence of what made Trek work.

Will Trek ever return, or has the adventure truly ended? Did the people at Christies pay the highest price that their beloved props will ever fetch? I was struck by the fact that the NCC-1701-D fetched twice the price as the original. This does not bode well for the investment value of these objects.

 

[Janus]

And I had high hopes for Enterprise since I liked Bakula from Quantum Leap, but I have only watched about a half dozen episodes.

The only Episode of "Enterprise" that really peaked my interest was towards the end of the last season. It was entitled "In a Mirror Darkly" and was a two-parter.

The only reason I even started to watch it was that I caught the following teaser and intro while flipping channels:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqPuMuV7q88&NR


The story takes place entirely in the alternate universe introduced in the TOS episode "Mirror Mirror" (The one where Spock has the beard).

Basic plot:

The Terran Empire is fighting a rebellion and isn't doing well. Archer finds out that the Tholians have obtained an advanced Starship and he forms a plan to capture it.
The advanced Starship turns out to be the U.S.S Defiant, the starship lost in an interdimensional rift in the TOS episode "The Tholian Web"; The rift had transported the Defiant to this universe and back in time.

Archer captures the Defiant, intending to use it to crush the rebelion (and make himself a hero to the Empire in the process).

One of the highlights of this episode is seeing a TOS style starship during battle done with 21st century special effects:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkbS_k_ei6Q&NR

 

[Kurdt]

I think Ivan is correct. You can never go back. What star trek was about was finding a better future and you must always go forward. As a Trek fan I found Enterprise extrememly irritating because the history I had built up through watching TOS TNG DS9 and VOY, was systematically destroyed and inconsistencies started to crop up which had been very rare previously in the world of star trek. For instance the fact the NX class had photon torpedoes when as we know from TOS that Daedalus class starships still carried nuclear warheads as an obvious example. The 11th film is on the way and its is based in the "past" of the star trek universe. It seems to me that this could destroy the franchise when looking to the future could save it.

 

[Janus]

I think Ivan is correct. You can never go back. What star trek was about was finding a better future and you must always go forward. As a Trek fan I found Enterprise extrememly irritating because the history I had built up through watching TOS TNG DS9 and VOY, was systematically destroyed and inconsistencies started to crop up which had been very rare previously in the world of star trek. For instance the fact the NX class had photon torpedoes when as we know from TOS that Daedalus class starships still carried nuclear warheads as an obvious example. The 11th film is on the way and its is based in the "past" of the star trek universe. It seems to me that this could destroy the franchise when looking to the future could save it.

What I found an especially egregiuos affront was the whole "temporal cold war" thing. It was made quite clear in the TOS episode "The Naked Time" that time travel, up to then, was not considered possible. But in "Enterprise" time travel popped up all over the place.

BTW, did you ever wonder why they put that little moving backwards in time sequence at the end of "The Naked Time"? The reason is that it was originally going to be a two part episode, the second half was to be the episode "Tomorrow is Yesterday" (the one where they accidentally get thown back to the 1960's) The above mentioned sequence was meant to be the cause of their being thrown back in time.

 

[Kurdt]

BTW, did you ever wonder why they put that little moving backwards in time sequence at the end of "The Naked Time"? The reason is that it was originally going to be a two part episode, the second half was to be the episode "Tomorrow is Yesterday" (the one where they accidentally get thown back to the 1960's) The above mentioned sequence was meant to be the cause of their being thrown back in time.

Interesting bit of trivia I shall have to add it to my own

 

[George Jones]

TOS, as one of the reasons that I studied theoretical physics and relativity on my own and at university, has had a big impact on my life. (I do not consider myself a trekker/trekkie.)

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Best Trek one-liners?

I have two:

"Who put the tribbles in the quatrotriticali" - Kirk

For some reason I have always found that sentence to be implicity humorous.

And one of my favorites from TNG: "She kissed me in the torpedo bay" - Data.

One of my favorite social conundrums was the return to normalcy for Janeway and Paris after getting it on as lizard things. Now that would be difficult to forget.

I think Data may have been my all-time favorite character; if nothing else, because he waxed poetic over his cat, Spot.

Ode to Spot

Felis Cattus, is your taxonomic nomenclature,
an endothermic quadruped, carnivorous by nature.
Your visual, olfactory and auditory senses
contribute to your hunting skills, and natural defenses.

I find myself intrigued by your subvocal oscillations,
a singular development of cat communications
that obviates your basic hedonistic predilection
for a rhythmic stroking of your fur, to demonstrate affection.

A tail is quite essential for your acrobatic talents;
you would not be so agile if you lacked its counterbalance.
And when not being utilized to aide in locomotion,
it often serves to illustrate the state of your emotion.

O Spot, the complex levels of behaviour you display
connote a fairly well-developed cognitive array.
And though you are not sentient, Spot, and do not comprehend,
I nonetheless consider you a true and valued friend.

 

[Janus]

Best Trek one-liners?

I have two:

"Who put the tribbles in the quatrotriticali" - Kirk

For some reason I have always found that sentence to be implicity humorous.

And one of my favorites from TNG: "She kissed me in the torpedo bay" - Data.

One of my favorite social conundrums was the return to normalcy for Janeway and Paris after getting it on as lizard things. Now that would be difficult to forget.

I think Data may have been my all-time favorite character; if nothing else, because he waxed poetic over his cat, Spot.

"Warrior's drink!"
Worf, after getting his first taste of prune juice.

 

[Newbie says Hi]

To me, the difference between Trek and the other shows was that Trek pioneered new ideas and explored the remote recesses of theoretical physics for its inspiration. IMO, the rest are just space operas and never have captured my interest, with the exception of Stargate SG1.

Say it isn't so, Ivan! I thought mentors upheld higher standards in science!

I mean, using zero-point energy as a power source? Extracting "free energy?" I hope the US Patent office isn't watching.

How do I even know of such plot devices? Well, I used to LOVE SG1 once upon a time, but as my understanding of physics grew, I found that show to be, well, inspired by crackpot literature.

(Oh and, I mean... no offence)

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

Say it isn't so, Ivan! I thought mentors upheld higher standards in science!

I mean, using zero-point energy as a power source? Extracting "free energy?" I hope the US Patent office isn't watching.

How do I even know of such plot devices? Well, I used to LOVE SG1 once upon a time, but as my understanding of physics grew, I found that show to be, well, inspired by crackpot literature.

(Oh and, I mean... no offence)

Oh and Star Trek is legitimate science is it?

 

[Evo]

Oh and Star Trek is legitimate science is it?

You mean the warp core doesn't really use dilithium crystals?

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

You mean the warp core doesn't really use dilithium crystals?

Now come on I didn't say that, obviously dilithium is real

Actually what the hell is dilithium, I always wondered?

 

[Newbie says Hi]

Oh and Star Trek is legitimate science is it?

Oh please, there is no comparison! Star Trek (the original series) is 300 years into the future (from their original airdate), whereas SG1 is happening right now. I can't suspend my disbelief in the plot device that our govn't is that technologically advanced RIGHT NOW... enough to violate our current known laws of physics. The govn't isn't efficient enough to keep all that secret.

I mean, I am willing to suspend my disbelief at the impossible, but not at the improbable! (no it's not mine!)

 

[Evo]

Actually what the hell is dilithium, I always wondered?

"Mechanics
Warp cores utilize a matter-antimatter reaction that is regulated by dilithium crystals. When matter and antimatter are exposed, they annihilate each other upon contact. This annihilation releases colossal amounts of energy. Dilithium crystals are used to regulate the reaction because they are nonreactive to anti-matter when bombarded with high levels of radiation. The matter used in the reaction is usually deuterium, an isotope of hydrogen, and the antimatter is usually antideuterium, the corresponding antimatter to deuterium. The matter and anti-matter reaction inside the dilithium matrix is usually referred to as the matter-antimatter reaction assembly (MARA). The MARA is surrounded by a magnetic field to prevent the highly reactive anti-matter from escaping the assembly. The energy is then transferred into a highly energetic form of plasma called warp plasma.

This warp plasma then travels to the warp nacelles via magnetic conduits. The warp coils are exposed to the warp plasma by plasma injectors, which carefully release the plasma into the coils. When exposed to such energetic plasma, the coils create an energy field called a warp bubble. The warp bubble expands space behind the vessel and contracts space in front of the vessel, and the warp bubble forms the barrier between these distortions. The bubble is accelerated while the space inside the bubble does not technically move, so the vessel does not experience time dilation, and time passes inside the bubble at the same rate as time in the other parts of the galaxy.

Warp cores can use other sources of energy besides a MARA, such as an artificial singularity. On starships, warp cores are often the main source of energy for primary systems in addition to propulsion."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warp_drive

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

Oh please, there is no comparison! Star Trek (the original series) is 300 years into the future (from their original airdate), whereas SG1 is happening right now. I can't suspend my disbelief in the plot device that our govn't is that technologically advanced RIGHT NOW... enough to violate our current known laws of physics. The govn't isn't efficient enough to keep all that secret.

I mean, I am willing to suspend my disbelief at the impossible, but not at the improbable! (no it's not mine!)

The ancients built the stargates, their technology was much more advanced than Star Treks, is it beyond the realms of possibility that there new "quantum" theory found a way to harness energy in a way and using a clearer understanding than we have? Let's face it there are few sci fi films, series etc where you don't have to suspend your disbelief. It is fantasy after all.

"Mechanics
\snip

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warp_drive

Thanks for that

 

[Newbie says Hi]

Now come on I didn't say that, obviously dilithium is real

Actually what the hell is dilithium, I always wondered?

Oh man! Isn't it common knowledge? What do they TEACH you in school?

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

Oh man! Isn't it common knowledge? What do they TEACH you in school?

OK so I'm not as big a geek as you guys, sorry

 

[Newbie says Hi]

The ancients built the stargates, their technology was much more advanced than Star Treks, is it beyond the realms of possibility that there new "quantum" theory found a way to harness energy in a way and using a clearer understanding than we have? Let's face it there are few sci fi films, series etc where you don't have to suspend your disbelief. It is fantasy after all.

OK, fair enough. But I just wish SG1 would quit borrowing MAJOR plot elements from the crackpot literature.

 

[Newbie says Hi]

OK so I'm not as big a geek as you guys, sorry

Not everyone is perfect.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Say it isn't so, Ivan! I thought mentors upheld higher standards in science!

I mean, using zero-point energy as a power source? Extracting "free energy?" I hope the US Patent office isn't watching.

And where does the idea of zero-point come from? Also, I don't recall one reference to "free energy". I might recall a zero-point reference but you would have to cite the episode. We do find references to Relativity, worm holes, and closed time-like curves, strings and other really exotic ideas - not to mention the infamous matter anti-matter reactors, which do react on a one-to-one mass ratio as Wesley Crusher correctly pointed out. Then we find the extroplations of technology, such as with computers.

Actually though, apparently many ideas were pulled out of thin air with the technical advisors left to figure out something to account for the plot requirements; esp in TOS.

IIRC, Alcubierre’s "Warp Drive" was inspired by Trek's warp drive. But the use of the word "warp" was still interesting, though I don't know how that one came about in TOS.
http://www.nasa.gov/centers/glenn/research/warp/ideachev.html

 

[jtbell]

Has anyone visited Riverside, Iowa, the "Future Birthplace of James T. Kirk"?

I actually drove past the exit last summer, but I was with a group that was in a hurry to get somewhere else.

 

[Math Is Hard]

Has anyone visited Riverside, Iowa, the "Future Birthplace of James T. Kirk"?

I actually drove past the exit last summer, but I was with a group that was in a hurry to get somewhere else.

What was so important that they would pass up a chance to visit Riverside? Was someone in labor?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I was thinking of other science referenced: TOS episode http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/series/TOS/episode/68712.html, was based on the real idea that silicon might be an option to carbon, for life.

The paradoxes of time-travel - changing one's own past, or killing your own grandfather before your father was conceived, etc - were referenced a number of times.

Back then, high energy LASERS were nothing but a pipe dream, but today we have the airborne anti-missile LASER system coming online.

Pocket sized communicators are now called cell phones

Real transporters are being used today, though only for the transport of quantum sized objects. Also the philosophical notion of an exact copy would keep me off the transporter pad.

In a sense we even see the first steps towards the replicators: We are now assembling structures like nano-motors, one atom at a time.

In many ways, computers have already surpassed Trek computers. But for getting it right, recall the little memory cards [really, more like a colored rectangular block] that held what was then considered to be a nearly infinite amount of information. We can buy them today at WalMart as memory sticks. Edit: Note that in 1966, the state-of-the-art for data storage was a tape recorder.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Silicon based life
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=110427

...and even worse!
http://www.physics.harvard.edu/people/facpages/randall.html

In one interview, she suggested that there might be life in higher dimensions based on laws of chemistry completely foreign to our known, 3+1 dimensional part of the universe. As a physicist who specializes in higher dimensions, she thinks this might be possible -life unique to other dimensions - in the most speculative sense of course.

Or course, this is old stuff for a trekker.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Oh yes, got to mention the several episodes toying with the Many Worlds Theory, with two that I can think of from TOS.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

This is interesting, though now a bit behind the times.

The Science of Star Trek
http://ssdoo.gsfc.nasa.gov/education/just_for_fun/startrek.html

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I had to laugh when I read this.

NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) - A rare, 184-year-old copy of the Declaration of Independence found by a bargain hunter...

The opening bid is $125,000 and appraisers have estimated it could sell for nearly twice that. [continued]

http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=65357

Hmmmm, shall I buy a copy of the Declaration of Independence - an "official copy" and one of 200 commissioned by John Quincy Adams in 1820 - or a plastic model of a pretend spaceship from a 1960s TV series. Tough call...

 

[Newbie says Hi]

BIG NEWS: Paramount Pictures announced that the next Trek movie is going to be comming Christmas Day 2008! Woohooo :)

After the Enterprise series, I though trek had died, but if this movie turns out to be up to the par of the Original Series (or even TNG) then it will be great!

Also according to wide-spread rumors, MATT DAMON is going to be playing Cap'n Kirk in this movie [1]. I think having Damon would help the movie's appeal to non-trekkies and I think it's a great move (yeah, yeh, I know ;) ). But Adrien Brody, and Gary Sinise as Spock and McCoy? I don't know... I'll have to see it to believe it.

[1] http://www.trektoday.com/news/270207_01.shtml

 

[Newbie says Hi]

A new Trek movie has been anounced and de-annouced so often that Paramount annoucning an official release date is good news to those of us who wanted another trek movie :)

 

[Janus]

BIG NEWS: Paramount Pictures announced that the next Trek movie is going to be comming Christmas Day 2008! Woohooo :)

After the Enterprise series, I though trek had died, but if this movie turns out to be up to the par of the Original Series (or even TNG) then it will be great!

Also according to wide-spread rumors, MATT DAMON is going to be playing Cap'n Kirk in this movie [1]. I think having Damon would help the movie's appeal to non-trekkies and I think it's a great move (yeah, yeh, I know ;) ). But Adrien Brody, and Gary Sinise as Spock and McCoy? I don't know... I'll have to see it to believe it.

[1] http://www.trektoday.com/news/270207_01.shtml

I can easily see Sinise playing McCoy, But it's a bit ironic to have an actor playing a younger version of a character who is older than the original actor was when he started the roll. (Sinise is 50, and Kelley was 46 when Star Trek debuted.

I also wonder how they are going to come up with a plausible story line that explains how all these characters happen to come together when they were younger. For instance, we know that Spock served under a different captain (Pike) before Kirk became captain of the Enterprise, McCoy is quite a bit older than Kirk etc.

 

[Kurdt]

I can easily see Sinise playing McCoy, But it's a bit ironic to have an actor playing a younger version of a character who is older than the original actor was when he started the roll. (Sinise is 50, and Kelley was 46 when Star Trek debuted.

I also wonder how they are going to come up with a plausible story line that explains how all these characters happen to come together when they were younger. For instance, we know that Spock served under a different captain (Pike) before Kirk became captain of the Enterprise, McCoy is quite a bit older than Kirk etc.

Which as I said above was my problem with the whole Enterprise thing. Now don't get me wrong I am a Huge trek fan, but the history of star trek I'd built up from watching the four original series was totally destroyed and I was left disallusioned by the whole thing. If they have to go back they need to be very very careful.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

It will be interesting to see what they come up with, but I expect it to be a sell-out on the trek universe.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Check this out. From about about the 12 to 26 minute mark, they play all sorts of out-takes - "saved from the cutting room floor" - from the original series.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1645890546093125435&q=Night+Gallery&hl=en