Surviving Hurricane Katrina - My Story

[russ_watters]

you all concentrate on Bush so harshly and intensely you are blinded to your own true emotions... i can no longer carry a conversation on these threads.

Yeah, I'm out too - this is spiraling out of control. I encourage everyone to take a step back and get ahold of their emotions. In the middle of a crisis, especially, emotions hurt more than they help.

 

[cronxeh]

I actually haven't even watched the news regarding this.. call me fecal or call me whatever you wish - inconsiderate or just cold or whatnot.. but i just didnt care. I don't know what it is but its New Orleans and I'm in New York, and.. well yeah pretty much I just don't care anymore

Im sorry.

 

[TRCSF]

social darwinism? do you have no care, love or respect in yourself to care about other human beings who do not have it as good as you do? NO is not getting help at the moment because they were given a 7 day warning to get out of their down before the nuclear bomb landed... yet they decided to stay. Now they need help, but they loot, they shoot, they rape and they kill. How can anyone send in a rescue team if theya re being shot at? This is the exact reason places like iraq had to be liberated, how can someone let places like this exist? rape, loot, manipulation, disease, murder... do you really want the military in NO? my foresight tells me it will just make the big bad media even bigger and badder, can you imagine pictures of US soldiers in gunfights with, and murdering US citizens? Would you rather we all sit around and care about our gas prices and our oil while the rest of the world goes to craps... and when they go to craps and gain power, they bring those same traits to the throne. Do you want a murderer, a rapist, and a manipulator in power of a country full of rapists, murderers, and manipulators... if you desire these things... it is precisely why the world is becoming the way it is.

There are, or were, rather, ten thousand families in New Orleans who were too poor to own cars. Most of them black. How do you drive out of New Orleans if you don't own cars? There are buses in New Orleans, but they're just sitting their, flooded. Apparently nobody had the wherewithal to help people evacuate.

In addition to the poor, there are people too sick to evacuate. Doctors and nurses to help take care of the people to sick to evacuate. People who lost their livelyhood last year during the evacuation and were unable to make the risk to evacuate. Handicaped people who could not evacuate. Mentally ill who could not evacuate. Homeless who could not evacuate. Children of people who chose not to evacuate. Elderly people who could not evacuate.

To say that the people who did not evacuate deserve what is happening to them is absolutely disgusting, and anybody who makes such remarks should be ashamed of themselves.

Are they're looters? Yes. Is this exactly what happens everytime there is a natural disaster which results in total anarchy? Yes. Is it social darwinism to assume that everybody who is stranded in New Orleans is a looter, murderer, and rapist because of what happened, and therefore deserves no help? Yes. is it racism? Yes.

Sir, I'd rather let anyone of these refugees from New Orleans into my house, then somebody who sits back and let it happens because they're black.

As for Iraq, there's raping, looting, and murdering occurring not only under U.S. occupation, but by U.S. occupation, so statements claiming that the "liberation" (sic) of Iraq was a good thing is naive, at best.

 

[TRCSF]

Come right out and say it, Ivan: say that if Bush had put that extra $10 million into the levee system that it wouldn't have failed. Say 50 years of failure to build a new levee system equal to that of The Netherlands is entirely Bush's fault. Go for it. Don't beat around the bush. Stop with the backhanded, irrelevant cheap shots and come out and blame it all on Bush if you really believe it. You too, TRCSF.

Your opinions are not based on reality. They are an irrational reaction to a traumatic situatuation. Its understandable - its human nature to look for someone to blame, but that doesn't make it ok.

I don't know if the $11 million dollars the engineers asked for would have prevented the levee break. You don't know that either.

What I do know is that those thousands of National Guard members in Iraq could be saving lives right now in NOLA. Real lives. American lives.

Americans are dying in Louisiana right now because Bush screwed up.

Come right out and say it Russ.

You know it's true. Or are you like Bush and unable to admit you made a mistake.

 

[TRCSF]

you all concentrate on Bush so harshly and intensely you are blinded to your own true emotions... i can no longer carry a conversation on these threads. Until you can grow up and stop cloaking your hate for Bush behind your true feelings of what the world has been becoming for the last 50 years, then we can communicate... my points are not moot, but your words are very harsh. I do not hide under terms such as social darwinism, i have no strings attatched, i speak my mind as a person of the world, and nothing else.

Social Darwinism is exactly what you described. You said that Middle Easterns are terrible people because they've been at war for 2000 years (sic) and literally that they evolved that way.

That's textbook definition of Social Darwinism, and I'll add, racism.

You're expressing similar sentiment for the people of New Orleans.

What's this business about "what the world has been becoming for the last 50 years?"

As for my feeling for Bush, they're supported by evidence. People all over the country are outraged at his incompetence and it's got nothing to do with partisan politics.

In fact, the only reason I think you're supporting him is because you voted for him, and you can't admit you're wrong.

 

[TRCSF]

I actually haven't even watched the news regarding this.. call me fecal or call me whatever you wish - inconsiderate or just cold or whatnot.. but i just didnt care. I don't know what it is but its New Orleans and I'm in New York, and.. well yeah pretty much I just don't care anymore

Im sorry.

Well, if you don't care, that's fine with me. Apparently there's a number of people in this thread who just don't care.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

I'm watching O'Reilly and they interviewed someone working at a hospital saying that they can't transport anyone out of the hospital because they can't get protection. It seems there is a large crown outside the hospital waiting to hijack the ambulance.

 

[cronxeh]

Ive read on a few forums about EMTs gathering together to go down to New Orleans on their own apparently to help out.

 

[Loren Booda]

Has someone mentioned yet one driver's refusal to abandon suitcases so others might have room to ride? Sounds Biblical.

 

[Astronuc]

I think a levee/dike protection system could have been completed in 5-10 years. The Lake Ponchatrain barrier - about 40-50 miles should have been a priority, since it is already higher than Sea Level. I have seen 40-50 miles of interstate in Texas completed in 2-3 years (see I-290 out of Houston), and that is about the engineering effort required for the same length of levee.

Also see the new Interstate going through Texas - for more trade with Mexico.

Hurrican Andrew occurred during the first Bush administration - and concerns were raised then about New Orleans and a potential flood.

The Mississippi Flood of 1993, during the first year of Clinton's administration, (which did threaten New Orleans) also raised concerns. The necessary studies should have been completed then.

I believe the issue of flooding in New Orleans has been raised every year since then.

Neither the Clinton nor current Bush administration were sufficiently concerned to protect New Orleans, and it is certainly about politics.

Louisiana and Mississippi are both poor states. Both rely heavily on gambling in their economies. Neighboring Texas gets a lot of Federal Highway money. Guess how much I-69 will cost, and guess how much is being spent in Texas.

Interstate 69, a national highway project, will be a new 1,600-mile facility that connects Mexico, the United States and Canada.

http://www.i69corridorstudy.com/ and http://www.i69texas.org/- Bush has his priorities alright.

The war in Iraq has cost nearly $200 billion. At $10 million/mile - 50 miles of protective levee/dike would cost $500 million, and even at $100 million/mile, that is only $5 billion (probably on the high side), compared to the how ever many $billions it will cost now - and the lives lost!

The software to perform such studies has been around for years, and I know companies, which have done this type of analysis, and it could have been done within a year or less.

 

[Evo]

Hurrican Andrew occurred during the first Bush administration - and concerns were raised then about New Orleans and a potential flood.

The Mississippi Flood of 1993, during the first year of Clinton's administration, (which did threaten New Orleans) also raised concerns. The necessary studies should have been completed then.

I believe the issue of flooding in New Orleans has been raised every year since then.

Neither the Clinton nor current Bush administration were sufficiently concerned to protect New Orleans, and it is certainly about politics.

Nice to see an accurate view on things. Yes, there has been too much apathy for too long. I do have to question whether it is a good idea to keep throwing money at a location that would not naturally exist. I can't imagine how we would relocate an entire region though, although we have seen the demise of once powerful cities throughout history.

 

[dgoodpasture2005]

There are, or were, rather, ten thousand families in New Orleans who were too poor to own cars. Most of them black. How do you drive out of New Orleans if you don't own cars? There are buses in New Orleans, but they're just sitting their, flooded. Apparently nobody had the wherewithal to help people evacuate.

In addition to the poor, there are people too sick to evacuate. Doctors and nurses to help take care of the people to sick to evacuate. People who lost their livelyhood last year during the evacuation and were unable to make the risk to evacuate. Handicaped people who could not evacuate. Mentally ill who could not evacuate. Homeless who could not evacuate. Children of people who chose not to evacuate. Elderly people who could not evacuate.

To say that the people who did not evacuate deserve what is happening to them is absolutely disgusting, and anybody who makes such remarks should be ashamed of themselves.

Are they're looters? Yes. Is this exactly what happens everytime there is a natural disaster which results in total anarchy? Yes. Is it social darwinism to assume that everybody who is stranded in New Orleans is a looter, murderer, and rapist because of what happened, and therefore deserves no help? Yes. is it racism? Yes.

Sir, I'd rather let anyone of these refugees from New Orleans into my house, then somebody who sits back and let it happens because they're black.

As for Iraq, there's raping, looting, and murdering occurring not only under U.S. occupation, but by U.S. occupation, so statements claiming that the "liberation" (sic) of Iraq was a good thing is naive, at best.

thank you... something i can respond to that didn't call me a name or make me angry... (just joking... i guess it's just human nature to want to call people names) an intelligent coversation possible expressing ideas and views instead of arrogance, stubborness, and degrading of others selves and views... i choose to respond because i feel my integrity was attacked. Okay... but not once did i say they deserved it, i said they had fair warning... FAIR warning... they had their chance to get out of the city, whether handicapped or not, and everyone else in the city had a chance to save those who couldn't make it... and those who couldn't drive had a chance to ask for help, call other families, friends, family members, WALK for crhists sake... everyne knew how bad it was goign to be, their own mayor said the city was going to be damned. label me with your names such as social darwinism... but if this had occured, and everyone worked together instead of letting their humantics get the best of them, one of which i like to call selfishness, there would be no problems... why don't you think people helped each other? as i said.. if these are things that are wished and practiced, this is precisely what you get... no one helped anyone, and look at the situation, it's out of control... do i say that ALL are looters and murderers? no... but if even 25% of them are... and 25% of them have guns and they are shooting at helicopters and ruling their own groups of people through fearmongering... then how can anyone get into help them? does this mean i want them to die? absolutely not, it is just logically impossible to get any kind of help in there when you are being shot at! Yes and about the soldiers... that is very naive of you, the same thing happens here in America, and you are comparing what to iraq? yes that happens in iraq, is the world perfect? no, are humans perfect? no, do we mess up sometimes yes... does most everyone like to focus on the negatives... it's obvious to me... YES you see one fault and you try and tear down the world. if you're out to look for the negative, you will only find... if you seek the positive, it will seek you as well. And no sir, i am not racist... i don't know what the black comment about, NO is 66 % black.. how can anyone possibly be racist... a monkey's a monkey, a human's a human, a tree's a tree... we all consist of the same matter, the same material, the same sexual organs, the same brains, the same ears and eyes, for anyone to say i am racist, is an insult to me personally, and to my intelligence. To think that someone admits to the fact that there is looting and murdering going on in another country... with fellow humans of the World that he shares with... and his only answer is to leave it be... is honestly sad... and it is just another poor example of someones thought process being blurred because of political self rightous gains. Have a heart man.

 

[dgoodpasture2005]

If you don't want to be labelled a racist, the very simple solution is to stop expousing social darwinism. You did it. It's right there. If you regret it just apologize and move on.

And you're still blame the victims of Katrina for their misfortune.

sick, sick stuff. I hope you don't think of yourself as a Christian.

social darwinism, if that's what you wish to call me... i call myself a looker outer for the world, you call yourself a stubborn self absorbed political mongrol... right? Do i blame the victims... yes... i cannot find one reason not to... except for those very very very extreme few who had no chance to escape... the rest... yes i blame them... but who do you blame... you blame the president of the United States for a natural disaster... political greed has engulfed your mind, you cannot even think clearly anymore, it's all political. Every world crisis, every human disaster, you'll never help physically or try and help shed light and positivity, instead you will run to your anti bush cave and peer from inside with your beedy red eyes as you point fingers and laugh... correct? that is the mental image that comes across to me on anyone who immediatly points fingers at others, because a natural disaster happened... or because people were warned... or when life is lost, it's always your excuse to start badmouthing someone of the opposite party... HUMANTICS... they are so silly. did i not just expalin to you what racism is? racism is the same as racial profiling... no i do not look at someone and say hey they are blakc hey they are white... i say hey look... these HUMANS need help because they have a leader who rapes their wives, and murders millions of them with nerve gases... as for you... you'd rather we sit around and do nothing about... now that my friend... is SICK. Racist i am not... but honest i am.

 

[dgoodpasture2005]

and for the record... there is no such thing as racism... the only race i know of as to date, is the human race... and that's the only way it should be, of course until E.T. decides to reveal itself. exanding on your quote... do i call myself christian? no i do not... and I'm glad to separate myself from all religions, they are nothing but biased beliefs, and they constantly cast judgement on others. I myself like to be of my own religion, with my own views, and my own caring ways... and i have enough love to go around for the whole world... but only those who deserve it will receive it... the blind ones will not see the light.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

The Astrodome is refusing any more refugees. Many more busses are already in route.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

The word is D E S P E R A T E, not frustrated!

1 a : having lost hope <a desperate spirit crying for relief> b : giving no ground for hope <the outlook was desperate>
2 a : moved by despair <victims made desperate by abuse> b : involving or employing extreme measures in an attempt to escape defeat or frustration <made a desperate leap for the rope>
3 : suffering extreme need or anxiety <desperate for money>
4 : involving extreme danger or possible disaster <a desperate situation>
5 : of extreme intensity
6 : SHOCKING, OUTRAGEOUS
synonym see DESPONDENT
- des·per·ate·ly adverb
- des·per·ate·ness noun

According to CNN: The victims of this disaster are not "frustrated", as so many of our leaders prefer to say. The victims want to make sure that the politicians know this. Every time they hear the politicians congratulate each other on how great of a job they're all doing, the victims about come unglued. Is it any surprise that they have no faith? Would you?

When the rats are eating the dead bodies in the streets, as they now are in many places, and when you watch babies die from dehydration at the NO convention center, in fact two in one day for one reporter, "frustrated" doesn't quite cut it.

 

[dduardo]

The Mayor of New Orleans is flat out pissed at the reponse by the federal government. He said on a radio show that the President needs to get off his ass.

They STILL HAVE NOT blocked out the areas were the levees broke. They STILL HAVE NOT sent troops to the area. They STILL HAVE NOT evacuated everyone from the superdome. They STILL HAVE NOT provided food and water to people.

People are dying and the reponse has been crap and continues to be crap.

 

[russ_watters]

They STILL HAVE NOT blocked out the areas were the levees broke. They STILL HAVE NOT sent troops to the area. They STILL HAVE NOT evacuated everyone from the superdome. They STILL HAVE NOT provided food and water to people.

All of those are either factually wrong or highly misleading. The one that is "most wrong" (if such a thing is possible) is the second one. Just pointing it out so I can remember it for when people calm down and can discuss it in a few weeks...

One thing to consider - people have complained we did a better job with the tsunami relief. The types of things we did in the tsunami relief, we are doing now - but the tsunami relief went for something like three months. So far, we've just passed our third day.

editk, fine, I guess I'll throw some facts in here because I'm going to get a harsh response either way. For federal troops, there are thousands of federal troops involved. The National Guard doesn't have any aircraft carriers or amphibious assault ships, for one simple example. But one thing people keep forgetting (which is what people are probably what is throwing them off on this issue) is that it is illegal for federal troops to participate in law enforcement. So most of the troops on the ground in NO, must be national guard.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-09-01-guardnavypresence_x.htm

 

[EL]

You must feel better now when help is on its way from Sweden!

 

[arildno]

The fact that the Bush regime is more concerned about a minor irritant like looting than bringing in food, medical supplies etc. is speaking volumes.

 

[russ_watters]

And you're still blame the victims of Katrina for their misfortune.

Two words for you: mandatory evacuation. We'll disuss that later...

 

[Hurkyl]

The fact that the Bush regime is more concerned about a minor irritant like looting than bringing in food, medical supplies etc. is speaking volumes.

Except that it's not a minor irritant -- it's running rampant. I guess, though, everyone is assuming that the looters are the same people that are besieging hospitals and driving off aid operations by shooting at them. I quite think that's a reasonable assumption, however.

 

[hypatia]

I am so grateful for all the aid coming from other countries, thank you to all who are helping. Clearly we can not do this by ourselfs.

 

[arildno]

Except that it's not a minor irritant -- it's running rampant. I guess, though, everyone is assuming that the looters are the same people that are besieging hospitals and driving off aid operations by shooting at them. I quite think that's a reasonable assumption, however.

People have a perfect right to take any measures to save their own lives.
By neglecting to bring immediate relief supplies, more and more people get desperate enough to engage in looting; i.e, the problem escalates.
Furthermore, the situation has been deeply aggravated by the policy of having an abundance of guns&pistols accessible to the general public.

The fact that there will also always be parasites who loots because they think it is fun&cool does not detract from this.

 

[rachmaninoff]

From the point of view of the most relevant person in this matter:

NEW ORLEANS - The mayor of New Orleans is seething over what he sees as the federal government's slow response to Hurricane Katrina.

Mayor Ray Nagin gave an interview to WWL Radio Thursday night and told listeners that he needs troops and hundreds of buses to get refugees out.

"They don't have a clue what's going on down there," Nagin said. "They flew down here one time two days after the doggone event was over with TV cameras, AP reporters, all kind of goddamn — excuse my French everybody in America, but I am pissed."

Nagin accused state and federal officials of "playing games" and "spinning for the cameras." He says he keeps hearing that help is coming, but "there's no beef."

Congress is rushing through an aid package of more than $10 billion and the Pentagon is promising 1,400 National Guardsmen.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050902/ap_on_re_us/katrina_new_orleans_mayor
(Associated Press)

 

[rachmaninoff]

People have a perfect right to take any measures to save their own lives.
By neglecting to bring immediate relief supplies, more and more people get desperate enough to engage in looting; i.e, the problem escalates.
Furthermore, the situation has been deeply aggravated by the policy of having an abundance of guns&pistols accessible to the general public.

The fact that there will also always be parasites who loots because they think it is fun&cool does not detract from this.

I agree somewhat, but this only part of the issue. What about the hijacking of ambulances? Threatening doctors and aid workers? Armed assault? Rapes? That's the big deal. Some lady stealing bulk diapers isn't a "security" issue.

 

[arildno]

None of those actions would have happened to the same extent if you hadn't had the idiotically easy access to guns&pistols.

 

[EL]

Well, now we can see one of the disadvantages with to much guns in the society.

 

[EL]

Actually I thought of what the situation would be like if it happened in Stockholm instead. I doubt it would be anything like you have it over there, since here there's hardly any guns around, and maybe more important: not a lot of poor people...

 

[EL]

Shoot to kill!

http://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/nyheter/story/0,2789,693300,00.html

Soldiers have orders to shoot plunders. Is this true?

 

[arildno]

It is unsurprising, but saddening, that the Bush regime sets more value on a fantasy construct like "property rights" than actual, human lives.

 

[Astronuc]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050902/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_katrina_8

WASHINGTON - President Bush, facing blistering criticism for his administration's response to Hurricane Katrina, said Friday "the results are not acceptable" and pledged to bolster relief efforts with a personal trip to the Gulf Coast.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/chitribts/20050902/ts_chicagotrib/navypilotsaysalotofpeoplestilltrapped
As they flew over the rooftops of New Orleans, plucking people from buildings and cars, the U.S. Navy helicopter crews from the base here began to notice the other people, the ones who hadn't managed to punch holes through the roofs of their homes or wade into the streets.

There are apparently National Guard - possibly 2000-3000 in NO to assist police. Another 1400 or so are suppose to arrive each day.

The Superdome area has not been completely evacuated. http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050902/ap_on_re_us/katrina_superdome_evacuation_hk1_39

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/HurricaneKatrina/wireStory?id=1089255&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312

It is not clear how effective the distribution of food and water has been.

Well I have not seen or heard official government words, but
Troops deployed in anarchic New Orleans with shoot to kill orders
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20050902/ts_alt_afp/usweather_050902082649

 

[EL]

Troops deployed in anarchic New Orleans with shoot to kill orders

If it's true, then it's really sad...

 

[Astronuc]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050902/ap_on_re_us/hurricane_katrina_79

Lt. Gen. Steven Blum of the National Guard said 7,000 National Guardsmen arriving in Louisiana on Friday would be dedicated to restoring order in New Orleans. He said half of them had just returned from assignments overseas and are "highly proficient in the use of lethal force." He pledged to "put down" the violence "in a quick and efficient manner."

Nothing about "shoot to kill", but the comment "highly proficient in the use of lethal force" does seem to infer the use of deadly force. This is not uncommon in the US in similar situations. US law enforcement agencies sometime (can't quantify how frequent) approve of deadly force against looters and criminals who fire upon police and others.

Who would have thought things could get so bad in a major US city?


Major Developments in Katrina's Aftermath
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/katrina_developments

 

[Loren Booda]

Can the world help bring peace back to the United States?