Surviving Hurricane Katrina - My Story

[Astronuc]

Unbelieveable!

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/HEALTH/09/04/katrina.sick.redtape.ap/index.html
Doctors waiting to treat victims in tax-funded, state-of-the-art unit

Monday, September 5, 2005

BATON ROUGE, Louisiana (AP) -- Volunteer physicians are pouring into care for the sick, but red tape is keeping hundreds of others from caring for Hurricane Katrina survivors while health problems rise.

Among the doctors stymied from helping out are 100 surgeons and paramedics in a state-of-the-art mobile hospital, developed with millions of tax dollars for just such emergencies, marooned in rural Mississippi.

"The bell was rung, the e-mails were sent off. ...We all got off work and deployed," said one of the frustrated surgeons, Dr. Preston "Chip" Rich of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.

"We have tried so hard to do the right thing. It took us 30 hours to get here," he said. That government officials can't straighten out the mess and get them assigned to a relief effort now that they're just a few miles away "is just mind-boggling," he said.

While the doctors wait, the first signs of disease began to emerge Saturday: A Mississippi shelter was closed after 20 residents got sick with dysentery, probably from drinking contaminated water.

Many other storm survivors were being treated in the Houston Astrodome and other shelters for an assortment of problems, including chronic health conditions left untreated because people had lost or used up their medicine.

The North Carolina mobile hospital stranded in Mississippi was developed through the Office of Homeland Security after the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. With capacity for 113 beds, it is designed to handle disasters and mass casualties.

Equipment includes ultrasound, digital radiology, satellite Internet, and a full pharmacy, enabling doctors to do most types of surgery in the field, including open-chest and abdominal operations.

It travels in a convoy that includes two 53-foot trailers, which as of Sunday afternoon was parked on a gravel lot 70 miles north of New Orleans because Louisiana officials for several days would not let them deploy to the flooded city, Rich said.

Yet plans to use the facility and its 100 health professionals were hatched days before Hurricane Katrina devastated the Gulf Coast, doctors in the caravan said.

 

[hypatia]

OMG Astro, that clip has me crying.

 

[Kenneth Mann]

Why did the government wait until after the storm to get mobilized? They knew this storm was going to be catastrophic. They could have atleast stationed the national guard and others close enough to the affected areas for imediate action. They could have also prepared ahead of time a method to blockade any broken levees.

About how close would you have put them to avoid adding more victims? This hurricane was well over a hundred miles wide, traveling quite rapidly and no one knew for sure exactly which direction or of what strength. I'd say the people concerned did about as well as could be expected when we consider the lack of comprehensive pre-planning. In other words, we didn't have a response problem. We had a long-term readiness problem, and that costs money that we apparently weren't ready to spend.

KM

 

[Astronuc]

About how close would you have put them to avoid adding more victims? This hurricane was well over a hundred miles wide, traveling quite rapidly and no one knew for sure exactly which direction or of what strength. I'd say the people concerned did about as well as could be expected when we consider the lack of comprehensive pre-planning.

Clearly the pre-planning was wholly inadequate, but that is what the folks at DHS and FEMA are paid to do - that is the primary function - their job.

Actually, New Orleans was pretty clear on Tuesday. National Guard should have been mobilized and ready to go - from Lake Charles, Baton Rouge, and Shreveport. We have to wait to find out why they weren't, and what responsibility the governor of Lousiana bears. How much of the Louisiana National Guard equipment is in Iraq? The governor can only control what is in the his/her state.

The federal government mobilized Guard units from other states, however they didn't start arriving until Thursday or Friday, IIRC.

As for the direction, the National Hurricane Center gives a 3-day and 5-day projection. Once the hurricane, then tropical storm starts moving N or NNE over land, it will pretty much move NE or more eastward. Relief and disaster response could have been organized in Western Louisiana, Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Missiouri, . . . .

There is still the possibility of another severe hurricane during the next two months. What then?

----------------------

As an aside, my parents have been helping out in Houston. My mother, a nurse, has been working at the Astrodome. She mentioned CVS Pharmacy has set up two field pharmacies in trailers and has donated lots of medicine. My mom described a chaotic situation of separated/lost children, and elderly who are near collapse. My father is volunteering at the Red Cross phone bank.

 

[Amp1]

Political posing and extreme hardship

You know after reading most of this thread, watching the news reports, and special editorials on this disaster. I am awed by the apparent lack of planning, the casual disregard for the victims by those who could expedite the arrival of aid, and the posturing of the CAC. Yes, I believe posturing is what he has spent so much effort doing instead of performing the what is mandated by the office he holds. Any wonder, this gives me a sense of dejavu, its similar to 9/11 but on a larger scale.

Just to add a little fuel... The people of NO are in dire straits and many of them are beyond desperation. Although I can't and won't condone the looting of TVs, Jewelry, and such. I believe that they have no choice when they haven't eaten in days or had anything but contaminated water to drink. The taking of food and water from stores, supermarkets and food service establishments (ie: McDonalds, BurgerKing, Hardees, ect.) is a survival measure induced by desperation and lack of other options.

 

[Loren Booda]

What is the website for Bush Sr. and Clinton helping victims of Katrina?

 

[Astronuc]

Bush - Clinton Katrina Fund
www.bushclintonkatrinafund.org

Former Presidents Bush and Clinton have established a joint 501(c)(3) fund to receive donations to assist the victims of Hurricane Katrina.

See also - http://www.usafreedomcorps.gov/

 

[Loren Booda]

Thanks for your enlightenment, Astronuc!

 

[Moonbear]

Six days after Hurricane Katrina -

http://www.overspun.com/video/MTP.AaronBroussardX.wmv - It's very disturbing.

Aaron Broussard is President of Jefferson Parish in New Orleans. According to the interview, he and his people are trying their best to recover. FEMA seems to be obstructing their work, or at least preventing aid from reaching them! I hope some can explain why.

Even Newt Gingrich is criticizing the Bush administration, particularly FEMA management. "I think it puts into question all of the Homeland Security and Northern Command planning for the last four years, because if we can't respond faster than this to an event we saw coming across the Gulf for days, then why do we think we're prepared to respond to a nuclear or biological attack?" said former House Speaker Newt Gingrich (Sep 2).

I've been getting pretty limited access to news since beginning my move, but every time I catch bits and pieces of it, I'm left incredibly confused as to how the response could be so slow and disorganized. We managed to have relief workers, supplies and money overseas to help the December tsunami victims faster than we've gotten people down to the gulf states with days of warning. Surely trucks could have been loaded in the northern states before the hurricane even hit, or on the day it was hitting, and a day later, they could have already been arriving.

I also can't understand why people were crammed into the SuperDome in the first place. If they could get buses to pick them up, why didn't the buses head north and out of the area? When that levee first broke, why wasn't every boat and helicopter mobilized to start evacuating people from the SuperDome and convention center immediately? And why weren't people told to bring food and water with them to the shelters if there was no food there? You can't just dump people into a shelter that has no food and water! Even if you couldn't get the people out that quickly, food and water could have been airlifted in, couldn't it? Every time I hear someone on the news, it seems they're passing the buck to someone else, crying and complaining that someone needs to help, but they didn't take charge to do anything themselves. What an amazing break down of leadership at every level!

 

[dduardo]

Before and after satallite images can be found on Google Maps:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=new+orleans&t=e

 

[hitssquad]

You Will Survive Doomsday still pertains

why people were crammed into the SuperDome in the first place.

It was a staging area for total evacuation. The initial priority was the getting of people out of the water. Katrina was a minor disaster. Only 50-100,000 people will have died from it at K-day +1 month, whereas FEMA's mission is to remain prepared for national disasters beyond 200 million deaths. Responses to such minor events as Katrina require FEMA to hold most of its resources in reserve so that the primary mission of preparedness for response to major disasters can be fulfilled.

See this video of Secretary Michael Chertoff where he explains similarly:
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2005/09/04.html#a4786

Also, see this essay, written two decades ago and continuously available on the internet for at least a decade, where the unfolding of events in New Orleans a few days ago was described in detail:
ki4u.com/survive/doomsday.htm

You are a survivor. Doomsday has occurred and you are a survivor. While you are waiting for the spouse and kids to get home maybe you should do something practical. Like go down to the supermarket and lay in a bit of an extra stock.

You may notice that the little corner store has closed. If he has believed the rumor, he wants to save his stock. And besides, your money may not be worth anything tomorrow. You thought you had seen rapid inflation before but this is like from zero to a million in sixty seconds.

At the supermarket, if you are early enough, you will find pandemonium. If not, you will find practically nothing. Maybe a large bag of dog food (take it) and some cans of floor wax (forget it). The rest of the stuff was all in those carts that you met come flying up the walk as you came running down.

There won't be any girls at the cash registers, (they have done their shopping and gone). Besides, the cash registers aren't working anyhow, with no power. It may have taken the hired manager a little longer to figure out that he should grab what he can and head home to his family, but he has probably gone now. The only cops you will see are the one's grabbing stuff themselves.

If on the way back you spot a shopping basket with something in it - think twice before helping yourself. If there is an altercation there are probably no doctors at the hospital to sew up the lacerations. Everyone else is also too busy to bother calling an ambulance, if they could, and one wouldn't be available if they did.
[...]
The public shelters have no supplies and no equipment. The average designated public shelter is supposed to shelter over three thousand people. Can you imagine the anarchy and conditions there? Without food, the first to die will be infants who are not being breast fed. Other early candidates will be persons who require special medications (especially the elderly) and anyone who happens to be injured.

Not only will deaths have negative psychological effects on the survivors, they will create severe sanitation problems. There will be enough sanitation problems anyway if the water and sewage systems are not working. Most of the designated shelter locations do not have sanitary provision for three thousand people in the first place.

One of the greatest hazards in an underground shelter is carbon dioxide poisoning. The designated public shelters, almost without exception, do not have adequate ventilation for large numbers of people over a considerable period of time. And the existing ventilation systems generally depend upon electricity being available.

There are ventilation defense and survival techniques available. However, if you were to try to implement them in a large public shelter situation you would probably be one of the first persons killed by the other survivors.
[...]
Add to these problems the fact that you might not have any light in the shelter, that anarchy may become rampant, and that there will almost certainly be no food, and perhaps, more importantly, no water and you will see why no trained survivalist would want to be caught dead in the place.

 

[Astronuc]

whereas FEMA's mission is to remain prepared for national disasters beyond 200 million deaths.

Is this realistic? 200 million is slightly more than 2/3's of the US population. It would make no sense to be prepared for disasters beyond 200 million deaths. I could accept 200,000, but even that seems awfully large.

BTW, Trent Lott, who lost his coastal home in Mississippi, has apparently mentioned that Michael Browns job a FEMA is in jeopardy.

Bush has apparently blamed 'the bureaucracy'! Well, it's his administration - he helped create it. It is his monster, so he has to deal with it!

The public shelters have no supplies and no equipment. The average designated public shelter is supposed to shelter over three thousand people. Can you imagine the anarchy and conditions there? Without food, the first to die will be infants who are not being breast fed. Other early candidates will be persons who require special medications (especially the elderly) and anyone who happens to be injured.

Not only will deaths have negative psychological effects on the survivors, they will create severe sanitation problems. There will be enough sanitation problems anyway if the water and sewage systems are not working. Most of the designated shelter locations do not have sanitary provision for three thousand people in the first place.

My sister was helping at the Astrodome. She mentioned that people have to wait in separate lines for food, medicine and clothing. Meanwhile they have to leave their cots (living space) unattended and other people will likely steal what food or clothing has been collected. So the alternative is to take everything when one goes to a line or the bathroom. How impractical is that?!

Sanitation - dysentry and other diseases seem to be increasing among those warehoused at the Astrodome, and probably elsewhere where the sanitary conditions are questionable.

 

[Gokul43201]

I don't know if this was brought up before, but there's a prophetically noteworthy article in National Geographic from Oct 2004.

. . . .
Thousands drowned in the murky brew that was soon contaminated by sewage and industrial waste. Thousands more who survived the flood later perished from dehydration and disease as they waited to be rescued. It took two months to pump the city dry, and by then the Big Easy was buried under a blanket of putrid sediment, a million people were homeless, and 50,000 were dead. It was the worst natural disaster in the history of the United States.

When did this calamity happen? It hasn't—yet. But the doomsday scenario is not far-fetched. The Federal Emergency Management Agency lists a hurricane strike on New Orleans as one of the most dire threats to the nation, up there with a large earthquake in California or a terrorist attack on New York City. Even the Red Cross no longer opens hurricane shelters in the city, claiming the risk to its workers is too great.
. . . .

http://www3.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0410/feature5/index.html

Courtesy : National Geographic Magazine, Oct 2004

 

[hitssquad]

Is this realistic? 200 million is slightly more than 2/3's of the US population.

thirdworldtraveler.com/FBI/FEMA_ITSG.html

Just exactly what FEMA and its predecessor agencies planned for America in the event of a nuclear attack remains classified. Until the collapse of the Soviet Union, a substantial portion of FEMA's budget was not only classified but also dwarfed spending for such "non-national" disasters as earthquakes, hurricanes, and floods. A 1992 study by the Cox Newspapers Group found that during 1982-1992 FEMA's budgets included only $243 million for disaster relief but $2.9 billion for "black" and classified operations. The Cox study also estimated that one-third of FEMA's employees during that period worked on classified projects. Even after the collapse of the Soviet Union, much of FEMA's budget remained "black"; in 1993, for example, approximately 27% of FEMA's budget was for classified projects.
[...]
Oliver North was the principal author of the Rex 84 plan ...
p61

One aim of the Rex 84 exercise was to determine what types of national emergency would be severe enough to persuade the majority of Americans to accept even a temporary suspension of normal Constitutional government. Among the severe enough situations identified by the Rex 84 group were a nuclear attack, imminent threat of nuclear war, massive terrorist attacks in the United States, simultaneous rioting in major American cities, a widespread natural or environmental disaster, and a devastating economic depression.

 

[Astronuc]

I seem to remember about 20 years ago a discussion about emergency planning in Washington DC. The plan was to protect the government, i.e. president, VP, Congress persons, and Supreme Court.

It did not address the civilian population (nationwide) - which was basically left to fend for itself.

The idea was that the US government would remain intact - which meant that the US would remain intact - but perhaps without most of the population.

I wonder if that thinking is still prevalent in the various institutions of Washington?

 

[russ_watters]

A saw a short report the other day about a doctor (civilian, I think) managing a field hospital getting supplies directly from the the commanding general of the military forces. He asked here what she needed and made her requests turn into realities very quickly. That's one thing about the military - red tape does not exist in a battle: a general says "jump" and people jump (no, they don't ask "how high", they just jump as high as they can). Perhaps FEMA should be a DoD organization, run either by the military directly, or with a military organizational structure?

 

[Astronuc]

As a partial vindication of Russ's point of view about what happened in New Orleans - see some excerpts from New Orlean's Emergency Preparedness Program in Russ's thread "Disaster Recovery Infrastructure ".

Something went very wrong in New Orleans - and that was not Bush's fault.

Meanwhile http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/hurricane_katrina;_ylt=Ajs.OvH0KUR7WbynDElLW28bLisB;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl -

NEW ORLEANS (AP) - Soldiers toting M-16s strengthened their grip on this swamped city as concerns grew about the risks posed by the toxic floodwaters and officials braced for what could be a staggering death toll by readying 25,000 body bags.

The flood water in New Orleans is apparently 'very' toxic - chemically and biologically!

 

[Astronuc]

September 7, 2005
Urgent Warning Proved Prescient
By THE NEW YORK TIMES

Among a steady string of warnings delivered in recent years to New Orleans that they could be devastated by a great hurricane, one of the last was also one of the most chilling.

"Hurricane Katrina. A most powerful hurricane with unprecedented strength," was the headline on the National Weather Service bulletin on Aug. 28, the day before Hurricane Katrina struck.

"Most of the area will be uninhabitable for weeks, perhaps longer," the alert went on.

It read like the kind of hastily typed dispatch one might expect from a meteorologist facing the storm of a lifetime and trying to ensure that leaders and citizens heeded warnings and moved to safety before all communications failed.

Yet it was mostly written years in advance, with just a few last-minute adjustments by the staff at the New Orleans office to reflect specific local conditions, federal weather agency officials said yesterday.

The goal of having the descriptions preprogrammed into computers is to save time for the local meteorologists whose job was both to encourage residents to stay safe and to track evolving conditions, said Walt Zaleski, the Weather Service warning coordination program manager in the regional headquarters.

How many really did realize this on Aug 28? What about next time - somewhere else? Will people remember years from now?

 

[hitssquad]

How many really did realize this on Aug 28?

~400,000 New Orleanians. It has been part of local culture in New Orleans for decades to know what was going to happen when the inevitable CAT4+ hit those levees. It was taught in the schools there.

 

[Astronuc]

Perhaps FEMA should be a DoD organization, run either by the military directly, or with a military organizational structure?

Along that line - NPR Morning Edition, September 8, 2005 · Coast Guard Vice Admiral Thad Allen talks about his appointment to direct recovery efforts in and around New Orleans. The admiral began reporting Monday to FEMA chief Michael Brown, whose agency has been widely criticized for a sluggish response to the disaster.

Admiral Coordinating New Orleans Recovery

 

[Astronuc]

~400,000 New Orleanians. It has been part of local culture in New Orleans for decades to know what was going to happen when the inevitable CAT4+ hit those levees. It was taught in the schools there.

Of course about 75-80% of people had evacuated the city, but there were those who stayed for one reason or another.

I was actually thinking about the responsible members in the city, state and federal government.

 

[hitssquad]

Of course about 75-80% of people had evacuated the city, but there were those who stayed for one reason or another.

The Bell Curve.

google.com/search?q=gottfredson+health

 

[hitssquad]

25,000 body bags.

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,16538469%255E663,00.html

 

[TRCSF]

The Bell Curve.

google.com/search?q=gottfredson+health

Ah, the racism angle.

 

[hypatia]

Michigan is sending 10 forensic teams, to help with the bodies. I'm sure many states are doing the same. It will be a daunting task, even for the most hardened forensic pathologist.

 

[Astronuc]

Thursday, September 8, 2005
Macabre Reminder: The Corpse on Union Street
By DAN BARRY, NY Times

That a corpse lies on Union Street may not shock; in the wake of last week's hurricane, there are surely hundreds, probably thousands. What is remarkable is that on a downtown street in a major American city, a corpse can decompose for days, like carrion, and that is acceptable.

Welcome to New Orleans in the post-apocalypse, half baked and half deluged: pestilent, eerie, unnaturally quiet.

 

[wolram]

The cultural cost of katrina.
http://archaeology.about.com/od/americansoutheast/a/katrina.htm

The human cost is horrific but also consider this.

 

[russ_watters]

As a partial vindication of Russ's point of view about what happened in New Orleans...

Actually, what I've posted about so far is not a complete picture of my point of view. Other people have focused on the politics and I have responded, but that is only a small part of what I think the problem was. It hasn't really been adressed yet, but the biggest failing I see here is one of personal responsibility. I don't agree with the racism angle (idiocy knows no racial boundaries), but it is my opinion that the majority of those in need in this crisis failed themselves and it should not be the job of the government to fix their mistakes - especially after the government warned them in advance that they were making a mistake.

I'll get more into that at some time later (and in the politics forum...), but for now - consider how you'd fare if your electricity and water were shut off right now: how many days before you ran out of either? Then consider what you could do with a day's head-start.

 

[Astronuc]

I wrote about personal responsibility or accountability elsewhere, but there are also extenuating circumstances. The elderly in a nursing home, who are dependent on others for care - how do they get out, the poor who do not have money, bank account or credit card, and those who have never been outside New Orleans and don't know anyone outside the city, and a combination thereof. Many of these people most likely have a high school education, if that.

I have to wonder how effective emergency preparedness really was in the poorest parts of town.