Unusual Phobias: Exploring the Fear of Everyday Objects

[honestrosewater]

Honestrosewater, quite a few things on that list remind me of when I was a child, and a couple still effect me now. At least I know I'm not the only one:D

Glad to be of service. They say that some anxiety and such is normal. I'm not very good at explaining what this feels like, but if you're worried about it or it gets out of control and you want to talk, feel free to PM me anytime.

You *are* a rational, stable person, you are just dealing with a chemical imbalance. Did you mention before if you are taking any medication to correct it?

Hang in there.

Thanks. No, I'm not taking medication. I doubt that I will be in the future either.

You can not judge your self Rose, you are not qualifed, and perfection is
an illusion, what seems perfect to me, others may view as a bag of old nails,
and you isn't boring.

What can I say? (Funny how you keep having that effect on me.)

 

[honestrosewater]

Wow Rose... I actually have similar things happen to me. It's not very intense and it doesn't happen very often but I get those same sorts of ideas in my head.

You too? Would you guys mind telling which ones? No need to at all.

I have a wee fear of heights. I was still able to jump out of an airplane though.

Congrats! Facing your fear (exposure) seems to have great results.

My one phobia that actually has a real effect on me is my claustrophobia. I have very little conscious control over it. There have been multiple times where I was having a reaction but didn't even realize it until I was about to pass out. What tends to happen is my breathing becomes really shallow. If I don't realize what's happening I get light headed from it and come close to passing out. I never have actually passed out though. Also it tends to really only been when there are people around. Small areas in and of themselves don't effect me much but crowds of people or someone standing really close to me blocking me into a small area really bother me. When I was a kid I hated going to Disneyland.

Ah, I wish I could explain what it feels like. I'll work on it.
I've been somewhat claustrophobic since I was a kid. I just can't stand not being able to move my arms or legs, like if I was in a zipped up sleeping bag or such. It's different from my other things though.

 

[Lyuokdea]

I do some of the similar things that you've described, although mine tend to usually be prompted by specific instances of being exposed to situations (usually on television) which parallel the phobia. Snakes are a big one for me, however, I usually am not worried about snakes at all unless I see something like a video with a snake or something. A week ago I saw a video with a huge python digesting a kangaroo, and then looked down and glanced around my closet of a dorm room to see if a 30 foot python happened to be inside. (Actually at this very instant, I cought myself giving a quick glance to the floor again, thinking about it) However, the instances are usually specifically prompted by instances like that, and thus don't occur too often and aren't really intrusive.

Besides snakes, one of the other ones that always gets me, is when I read about biblical passages that would be considered, somewhat heretical by the established church. (Yesterday for instance i was reading analysis on whether Jesus and Barabbas were in fact the same person, or a manifestation of a violent rebel vs. a peaceful Jesus) For some reason passages like that always give me a fairly overwhelming feeling of god looking over my back, in the sense that i feel I am obtaining forbidden knowledge. (I guess a kind of garden of eden sort of thing) This sort of thing really gets my senses going for awhile, looking around the room and listening for noises and stuff, but I can usually distract myself by thinking of other things after awhile.

I also tend to check things like locked door and whether I have my keys when I'm leaving my room more times then necessary, although I almost always stop after 3 times or so, and can stop any reasoning to do it again, by specifically concentrating while I lock the door to make sure it happened etc. I think it may be the same impulse to a lesser degree. I would say many of the things you list pop up from time to time for me, but I'd guess on average it never takes up more than 5-10 minutes of my time in a day, so it is not incredibly destracting.

One question, have you ever thought of taking self defense classes or something of the like, in order to give yourself confidence to deal with the idea of strangers or being alone? I'm not sure if you feel that would help you with your confidence or if being in an environment where you would think about strangers would make it worse for you. Being alone or afraid of people was never a huge problem for me, and I think most of it was the childish fear of strangers, but I thought the problem actually cleared up completely for me, by ironically, getting attacked once, and then winning the ensuing fight, against a guy significantly bigger than me (I'm 5'6" 135, He was probably 5'8 180) :) That incident gave me a lot more confidence in my ability when I'm alone or walking somewhere in the night.

~Lyuokdea

 

[wolram]

by HRW, What can I say? (Funny how you keep having that effect on me.)

May be i should bottle my power, some men would pay a fortune,
but i didn't mean too make you speechless, this thread is interesting,
and if nothing else, will show that people are not alone.

 

[honestrosewater]

May be i should bottle my power, some men would pay a fortune,

What, to shut up their women?

but i didn't mean too make you speechless, this thread is interesting,
and if nothing else, will show that people are not alone.

Heh, I've spent an hour trying to write a response to Lyuokdea's post, but I keep thinkng that I'm saying too much. I won't shut up now that I have permission.

 

[Monique]

Wow Rose... I actually have similar things happen to me. It's not very intense and it doesn't happen very often but I get those same sorts of ideas in my head.

Here too, but the difference is that it's not an obsession. Usually it is triggered by a documentary or movie. Like, in the American movie Ring II you have sarah michelle gellar washing her hair and all of a sudden you see the crooked hands of that ghost washing her hair at the same time, that could easily trigger a phobia of washing your hair if you are sensitive to it, realizing it is not rational eliminates the thought.

 

[Monique]

I do some of the similar things that you've described, although mine tend to usually be prompted by specific instances of being exposed to situations (usually on television) which parallel the phobia.

I think television plays a large role.

A week ago I saw a video with a huge python digesting a kangaroo, and then looked down and glanced around my closet of a dorm room to see if a 30 foot python happened to be inside.

at one point when I was younger I was afraid of sharks (after watching jaws) when swimming in the local indoor swimming pool I couldn't help but look around for sharks! how irrational.

One question, have you ever thought of taking self defense classes or something of the like, in order to give yourself confidence to deal with the idea of strangers or being alone?

Good suggestion, physical activity is always good.

 

[honestrosewater]

I do some of the similar things that you've described, although mine tend to usually be prompted by specific instances of being exposed to situations (usually on television) which parallel the phobia. Snakes are a big one for me, however, I usually am not worried about snakes at all unless I see something like a video with a snake or something. A week ago I saw a video with a huge python digesting a kangaroo,

Ah - I saw that too, a while ago, someone posted it here - and it got me too! I knew that it would, but I just had to see it. My thing is avoiding getting into a situation where I cannot escape or save myself - immediate danger - and where I could have prevented the situation if I had been more responsible. Vipers are the worst for me - that arrow head - eek - and there are Eastern Diamondbacks in the state, so it's a little more probable (not that that makes a huge difference - I still get thoughts of cobras, mambas, etc. ). The thing is that I'm not actually afraid of snakes - I realize some are dangerous, but I think they're interesting and love reading and watching shows about them when I can manage. Same goes for the other things.

and then looked down and glanced around my closet of a dorm room to see if a 30 foot python happened to be inside. (Actually at this very instant, I cought myself giving a quick glance to the floor again, thinking about it) However, the instances are usually specifically prompted by instances like that, and thus don't occur too often and aren't really intrusive.

Besides snakes, one of the other ones that always gets me, is when I read about biblical passages that would be considered, somewhat heretical by the established church. (Yesterday for instance i was reading analysis on whether Jesus and Barabbas were in fact the same person, or a manifestation of a violent rebel vs. a peaceful Jesus) For some reason passages like that always give me a fairly overwhelming feeling of god looking over my back, in the sense that i feel I am obtaining forbidden knowledge. (I guess a kind of garden of eden sort of thing) This sort of thing really gets my senses going for awhile, looking around the room and listening for noises and stuff, but I can usually distract myself by thinking of other things after awhile.

I also tend to check things like locked door and whether I have my keys when I'm leaving my room more times then necessary, although I almost always stop after 3 times or so, and can stop any reasoning to do it again, by specifically concentrating while I lock the door to make sure it happened etc. I think it may be the same impulse to a lesser degree. I would say many of the things you list pop up from time to time for me, but I'd guess on average it never takes up more than 5-10 minutes of my time in a day, so it is not incredibly destracting.

This is just personal advice - trust yourself. If you think something is wrong, do something before it gets worse. If you aren't concerned now, great. But if it gets worse later, don't wait until you get to be like me. I don't mean to scare you; I just think it's helpful to know that small things can grow to be seriously disabling and are much better if caught and treated early. But I'm in no position to give you any specific advice about what kind of help to seek.

One question, have you ever thought of taking self defense classes or something of the like, in order to give yourself confidence to deal with the idea of strangers or being alone? I'm not sure if you feel that would help you with your confidence or if being in an environment where you would think about strangers would make it worse for you. Being alone or afraid of people was never a huge problem for me, and I think most of it was the childish fear of strangers, but I thought the problem actually cleared up completely for me, by ironically, getting attacked once, and then winning the ensuing fight, against a guy significantly bigger than me (I'm 5'6" 135, He was probably 5'8 190) :) That incident gave me a lot more confidence in my ability when I'm alone or walking somewhere in the night.

Yes, I've developed plans for many situations. But this planning just makes things worse in the long run; It can always find something. I don't lack confidence, and I'm not actually afraid of strangers or being in these situations for real. And I normally love being alone.
Did anyone read that link I posted? I don't intentionally have these thoughts, and I realize that they are irrational. And they aren't just thoughts - they cause real pain. The thoughts are only ever potentials - potential danger, a potential mistake. The thoughts and images are of what might happen or what might be true.
For instance, if there really was a venomous snake at my feet, I would just deal with the situation - I know what to do and am confident that I could remain calm and not panic. But when the attacks happen, there isn't really a snake at my feet - but my body reacts as if the situation were really happening. So what do I do? If I don't do anything to get out of the situation, my body continues to panic. If the situation were real, I would react immediately. And that's the easiest way to make my body stop panicking - just react immediately - or better, avoid the triggers. The problem is that since the attacks are all in my head, they can happen anywhere, anytime. I am never safe. I can avoid or kill or be killed by real snakes; I can't avoid or kill or be killed by imaginary snakes - there's no escaping them. And that's just snakes. Meh, I'm really bad at explaining this.

I guess you could say it's like an alarm going off all of the time. The alarm is either a real alarm or a false alarm. Knowing what to do in case of a real alarm isn't the issue. It's knowing whether the alarm is a false alarm or a real alarm. The only way to shut off the alarm is to 1) find out for certain - 100% certainty - that the alarm is false or 2) react as if the alarm were real.

The alarm may sound in my head that someone is outside of the window pointing a gun at me, about to shoot me. Is the alarm real or false? It's probably false, but there's a chance, however slight, that the alarm is real. So I either need to react as if the alarm were real or find out for certain that the alarm is false. Suppose that I get up and look out the window - there's no one there. False alarm. But suppose that as soon as I sit back down, the alarm goes off again. I just looked out the window - but maybe someone is there now. They could have just arrived or hidden from view last time. Suppose I check again - false alarm. And as soon as I sit back down the alarm goes off again...

Does that sound familiar to anyone?

 

[Mk]

I guess you could say it's like an alarm going off all of the time. The alarm is either a real alarm or a false alarm. Knowing what to do in case of a real alarm isn't the issue. It's knowing whether the alarm is a false alarm or a real alarm. The only way to shut off the alarm is to 1) find out for certain - 100% certainty - that the alarm is false or 2) react as if the alarm were real.

Does that sound familiar to anyone?

Sounds very familiar. In fact it happens to me all the time, everyday. But I'm not insane and I don't get panic attacks because I completely blank out the possibility of that terrible thing that might be there or that might be happening, which effectively annihilates number 2, while at the same time go with number 1. Works every time.

If you're occupied with a leisurely task that has you thinking, like PFing (I may have picked that up from someone else, or maybe I just say it, has a nice ring to it anyhow ehh?) you're usually pretty safe. Mindless, boring, repetitive, I-don't-want-to-do-it tasks don't work to well.

The alarm may sound in my head that someone is outside of the window pointing a gun at me, about to shoot me. Is the alarm real or false? It's probably false, but there's a chance, however slight, that the alarm is real. So I either need to react as if the alarm were real or find out for certain that the alarm is false. Suppose that I get up and look out the window - there's no one there. False alarm. But suppose that as soon as I sit back down, the alarm goes off again. I just looked out the window - but maybe someone is there now. They could have just arrived or hidden from view last time. Suppose I check again - false alarm. And as soon as I sit back down the alarm goes off again...

That kind of thing makes me not like shower curtains , its like tissue paper you can't see through, anything could be happening on the other side and its this close to you! Many times I quickly open it (from the outside), and sometimes I end up peeking out the side, from the inside. Maybe I shouldn't have told you that, you might have an alarm going off next time you take a shower.

If I had a reoccurring problem with the window I would solve it. Like position a mirror so that you can take a glance at it if you get any funny ideas. Those ones you find in the corners of convinces stores would be great.

Thanks again for helping me on math honestrosewater!

 

[Evo]

Thanks. No, I'm not taking medication. I doubt that I will be in the future either.

I know people that have been greatly helped with the proper medication and are able to live normal lives. Don't rule it out, your symptoms are very likely the result of a chemical imbalance which only medication can correct.

 

[HiPPiE]

How could anyone go through life afraid of money?

Believe it or not, I sort of am :0

I hate all money transactions, buying things, selling things, figuring out tips... it just makes me nervous and worried. I think it's because people treat money so seriously--I feel like I might 'screw up' with it somehow.

 

[wolram]

Believe it or not, I sort of am :0

I hate all money transactions, buying things, selling things, figuring out tips... it just makes me nervous and worried. I think it's because people treat money so seriously--I feel like I might 'screw up' with it somehow.

It is lucky credit cards are so popular now, this is one phobia that may die
out soon with a cashless society, you shouldn't worry to much HiPPiE, easy
come easy go

 

[hypnagogue]

HRW, I get the same height related images. Whenever I'm standing near the ledge of an elevated, open place, I tend to get spontaneous mental images of myself climbing over the railing and falling to the ground below. Sometimes I work out what the damage would be, how many broken bones and if I could survive and the like. It's completely irrational in that I know I'm not going to do something like that, but nevertheless, because of the mental images, I sometimes feel like I have to take special precautions not to do it. Occasionally I'll get a fairly strong pang of anxiety (or sometimes an emotion like, "Christ, what the hell are you doing!?") in response to the mental image, or I guess what you call an alarm response, but most of the time I'm able to handle it without any strong feelings attached. I guess I'm better than I used to be-- as a young kid, just extending my arms straight out over my balcony used to arouse strong feelings of apprehension.

I also frequently get similar images by train tracks (I take the subway regularly)-- spontaneous images of myself jumping onto the tracks for no apparent reason. I usually (spontaneously) picture myself climbing back onto the landing before the train arrives, though.

I have it pretty bad for plane flights. I used to be able to handle them with little or no problems, but the last two times I took a plane flight (round trip) it was an excruciating emotional ordeal for which I needed a couple of days to fully recover both times. At one point I honestly felt with a great conviction that I was going to die-- as if someone was holding a gun to my head and I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that he was going to shoot me. As you can imagine, it was not a very pleasant thing to experience. I tried a number of techniques to try to calm myself down-- ignoring the phobia, telling myself I was perfectly safe, trying to preoccupy myself with other thoughts, controlling my breath, etc.-- but nothing really worked. And as mortified as I was, I couldn't stop looking out the window with some kind of anxiety-soaked fascination.

 

[HiPPiE]

Planes don't bother me much, since I've been flying them about 4 times a year since I was 2 :)

Anyone know the Dutch soccer star Bergkamp? I found out only recently that he had an enormous phobia for flying that kept him from playing in any soccer game that required a plane flight to get there. He'd drive or take a boat. Found it interesting.

 

[wolram]

Planes don't bother me much, since I've been flying them about 4 times a year since I was 2 :)

Anyone know the Dutch soccer star Bergkamp? I found out only recently that he had an enormous phobia for flying that kept him from playing in any soccer game that required a plane flight to get there. He'd drive or take a boat. Found it interesting.

I think every one has heard of Bergkamp, what i find amazing is the wealth of
help for fear of flying, and a man in his position could not over come it.

 

[HiPPiE]

I think every one has heard of Bergkamp, what i find amazing is the wealth of
help for fear of flying, and a man in his position could not over come it.

That is the amazing thing.
Maybe everyone in Europe, but I don't know how many people on this forum are European. Here in New York probably 1% of people know who he is, or less.

By the way, my sister's going to Warwick University this coming year... I assume that's right next to you?

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

You too? Would you guys mind telling which ones? No need to at all.

I just skimmed through. I don't have a particular problem with snakes or rats unless I am someplace where I might expect too encounter one. If I am in such a situation and there are places where one might be hiding I make sure to stay away from those places. I don't get worried about someone outside a window maybe wanting to shoot me but if there is a window and because of lighting I can't see through it and the person outside can see through then I get paranoid about there being someone out there. Same with curtains. I used to have a strong tendency to peek out of curtains frequently.
Like Hypnogogue mentioned about heights, I have the same tendancy. I get it when I'm driving sometimes too, the idea pops in my head about swerving into on coming traffic or over a cliff, into a wall. I never do it, obviously, and I have no intention of doing so but the thought pops into my head. Other objects for this sort of thing would be knives, heavy machinery, bodies of water. And it's really odd because I have never contemplated suicide ever. I have thought about it, considering the whole jumping thing and knife thing and what not, but I have never actually thought that I might want to kill myself. Never had the thoughts about my eyes though when I am extremely agitated I tend to dig my nails into and scratch my arm.

Congrats! Facing your fear (exposure) seems to have great results.

For the most part I wasn't even afraid. The thing that bothered me most was my claustrophobia while sitting in the plane because the quarters were rather cramped and I had a little man strapped to my back. When I was at the edge of the door getting ready to jump I was a bit worried. After the jump though, when I was freefalling, I was actually enjoying myself. It feels like flying, not so much like you're falling.

Ah, I wish I could explain what it feels like. I'll work on it.
I've been somewhat claustrophobic since I was a kid. I just can't stand not being able to move my arms or legs, like if I was in a zipped up sleeping bag or such. It's different from my other things though.

Yes, the feeling of not having your freedom to move about is what bothers me most. That and touching or people, mainly strangers, invading my space.

 

[wolram]

That is the amazing thing.
Maybe everyone in Europe, but I don't know how many people on this forum are European. Here in New York probably 1% of people know who he is, or less.

By the way, my sister's going to Warwick University this coming year... I assume that's right next to you?

Yes Warwick uni is about 12 miles from me, it is a misleading name as it is
in the out skirts of coventry, i hope your sis enjoys the area

 

[Mk]

HRW, I get the same height related images. Whenever I'm standing near the ledge of an elevated, open place, I tend to get spontaneous mental images of myself climbing over the railing and falling to the ground below. Sometimes I work out what the damage would be, how many broken bones and if I could survive and the like. It's completely irrational in that I know I'm not going to do something like that, but nevertheless, because of the mental images, I sometimes feel like I have to take special precautions not to do it. Occasionally I'll get a fairly strong pang of anxiety (or sometimes an emotion like, "Christ, what the hell are you doing!?") in response to the mental image, or I guess what you call an alarm response, but most of the time I'm able to handle it without any strong feelings attached. I guess I'm better than I used to be-- as a young kid, just extending my arms straight out over my balcony used to arouse strong feelings of apprehension.

I also frequently get similar images by train tracks (I take the subway regularly)-- spontaneous images of myself jumping onto the tracks for no apparent reason. I usually (spontaneously) picture myself climbing back onto the landing before the train arrives, though.

Yeah me too, I always stay away from railings such as those. But my subconscious only tells my conscious about it if I would surely be dead. I also happen to fear losing items of clothing off the edge, but only dispensible ones. Such as mittens, gloves, hats, and shoes. Happened at Niagara Falls, anytime I'm on a quickly enough moving boat, in blue enough water, on the edge of cliffs and such. But not a thought pops into my mind when I'm riding rollercoasters (w00t) or airplanes. Maybe my subconscious is as smart as mine conscious. Almost all the people that die on airplanes were choking on the food. And the chances of dying on a rollercoaster are higher than <a short list of dangerous things> combined!

 

[honestrosewater]

Sounds very familiar. In fact it happens to me all the time, everyday. But I'm not insane and I don't get panic attacks because I completely blank out the possibility of that terrible thing that might be there or that might be happening, which effectively annihilates number 2, while at the same time go with number 1. Works every time.

Wow, even off-the-wall things like ripping out your eyes? Is it like you're intentionally trying to be careful and it just gets out of control or do the thoughts just pop into your head?

If you're occupied with a leisurely task that has you thinking, like PFing (I may have picked that up from someone else, or maybe I just say it, has a nice ring to it anyhow ehh?) you're usually pretty safe. Mindless, boring, repetitive, I-don't-want-to-do-it tasks don't work to well.

Yeah, keeping my mind occupied helps too (keeping the thoughts from popping up), and it's worse when I'm not absorbed in some activity and my mind can just wander.

That kind of thing makes me not like shower curtains , its like tissue paper you can't see through, anything could be happening on the other side and its this close to you! Many times I quickly open it (from the outside), and sometimes I end up peeking out the side, from the inside. Maybe I shouldn't have told you that, you might have an alarm going off next time you take a shower.

Don't worry, just about every possibly dangerous situation is already a problem for me. (Although I did get a thought of a 30-foot python wrapping me up like I was in a sleeping bag when I tried to fall asleep yesterday, thank you very much. ) I already have problems taking a shower, either that someone will attack me or lightning will hit the house, travel through the plumbing, and strike me. I can't even take a shower during a lightning storm. If there's a razor or pressurized can in the shower, that bothers me too. I check behind the shower door too. I check everywhere, even while walking around my house. My eyes have to be everywhere - on the floor, in front of me, behind me, around the corner, into possible hiding places, etc. It's ridiculous.

If I had a reoccurring problem with the window I would solve it. Like position a mirror so that you can take a glance at it if you get any funny ideas. Those ones you find in the corners of convinces stores would be great.

Yeah, but I'm actually trying to get better. Doing stuff like that is how I got to the point of not being able to leave my house or even close my eyes for more than a few seconds (until I'm so tired that I have to sleep). The mirror wouldn't work for long anyway. What if the person ducks everytime I look or is just out of sight? And it's not just the window thing. There are probably thousands of individual thoughts. I can't imagine ANY situation that wouldn't trigger a thought. Even being in an extremely safe room and physically restrained, I could stop myself from breathing (er, I wouldn't do that, but I could lose control of my body). If I were hooked up to a breathing machine, it could stop working or the electricity could fail, if there was a person there to do it manually, they could hurt me or have a heart attack and die, a bomb could be on its way, and so on.
It can always find something. I am never really 100% safe, and this is what it latches onto. There's no way to beat it by trying to make myself safe. I just have to face the danger and learn to live with it, which is what I'm trying to do now. And I hope that anyone else having similar problems considers doing the same - face your fears and learn to live with them. Really, I mean that from the bottom of my heart.

Thanks again for helping me on math honestrosewater!

OMG, I helped someone with math! Well, you're very welcome and thank you for mentioning it! Woot!

 

[honestrosewater]

I know people that have been greatly helped with the proper medication and are able to live normal lives. Don't rule it out, your symptoms are very likely the result of a chemical imbalance which only medication can correct.

I haven't completely ruled it out. I would just prefer not to take medication. The medication also only helps with the onset and severity of anxiety; I would still have to have therapy to change all of the habits and behaviors that I have learned as a result of having the problem for so long. People have been successfully treated with therapy only, so I'm giving it a chance.

 

[honestrosewater]

HRW, I get the same height related images. Whenever I'm standing near the ledge of an elevated, open place, I tend to get spontaneous mental images of myself climbing over the railing and falling to the ground below. Sometimes I work out what the damage would be, how many broken bones and if I could survive and the like. It's completely irrational in that I know I'm not going to do something like that, but nevertheless, because of the mental images, I sometimes feel like I have to take special precautions not to do it. Occasionally I'll get a fairly strong pang of anxiety (or sometimes an emotion like, "Christ, what the hell are you doing!?") in response to the mental image, or I guess what you call an alarm response, but most of the time I'm able to handle it without any strong feelings attached. I guess I'm better than I used to be-- as a young kid, just extending my arms straight out over my balcony used to arouse strong feelings of apprehension.

You know, I've read several times in books or articles about OCD that most people have the same thoughts as OCD sufferers, but I thought the authors were just saying that to make us feel better. But maybe it's actually true.
How long does the thought or image last or how easily can you dismiss it? I have thoughts that aren't a part of my OCD and can dismiss them easily - and they don't cause anxiety either. For instance, I can think now that the roof might collapse on me, but this doesn't bother me, and I can just say, 'Sure, but I'll just have to live with that possibility'.

I also frequently get similar images by train tracks (I take the subway regularly)-- spontaneous images of myself jumping onto the tracks for no apparent reason. I usually (spontaneously) picture myself climbing back onto the landing before the train arrives, though.

Me too, but not the climbing back on the platform part. I lived in Cambridge (Boston) for the summer and only took the T when I had to be at work before the buses started running.
I lived on the 5^th floor too! Not good. I once went up on the roof with some friends (we were pretty drunk at the time). This was when Mars was very close to Earth - I could see it clearly! And the sun was just coming up and I could see over the houses, it was great. I was scared out of my mind, but it was still great.
I also get the thought that other people might fall or be pushed onto the tracks when I see people standing by them (on TV or such), as happens more often now after the attacks in London. Same thing happens when I see people using sharp knives or other dangerous things. And this causes anxiety too - like I want to and should try to save them from danger. Do you guys worry about trying to save other people from danger too? This thread is really surprising me so far.

I have it pretty bad for plane flights. I used to be able to handle them with little or no problems, but the last two times I took a plane flight (round trip) it was an excruciating emotional ordeal for which I needed a couple of days to fully recover both times. At one point I honestly felt with a great conviction that I was going to die-- as if someone was holding a gun to my head and I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that he was going to shoot me. As you can imagine, it was not a very pleasant thing to experience. I tried a number of techniques to try to calm myself down-- ignoring the phobia, telling myself I was perfectly safe, trying to preoccupy myself with other thoughts, controlling my breath, etc.-- but nothing really worked. And as mortified as I was, I couldn't stop looking out the window with some kind of anxiety-soaked fascination.

Yes, I understand! That stuff doesn't work! Some people don't believe me when I tell them that I can't just control it. I wouldn't even be able to get myself onto an airplane - I would freeze. Well, I would currently, anyway.
If you want to be able to fly or live with other fears, you can try some imaginal Exposure and Response Prevention. I'll try to find a good link about it. It's not like kooky, crackpot stuff, or at least, I don't think so - it makes sense to me and has a successful record.

 

[honestrosewater]

Anyone know the Dutch soccer star Bergkamp? I found out only recently that he had an enormous phobia for flying that kept him from playing in any soccer game that required a plane flight to get there. He'd drive or take a boat. Found it interesting.

John Madden doesn't fly either. Ever notice that he doesn't cover the Pro Bowl? It's in Hawaii.

Sportscaster John Madden has not boarded a plane since 1979, but crisscrosses the nation weekly during the football season covering "NFL Monday Night Football" for ABC-TV.

His transport isn't Amtrak or Greyhound. It's the ultimate SUV -- an $800,000, 45-foot luxury coach fitted with everything from sauna to gourmet galley.

Madden, 67, works, sleeps and eats as he covers 80,000 miles annually -- almost all of it between September and January -- across America's interstate highways...
- http://www.bankrate.com/brm/news/auto/car-guide-2004/madden1.asp

I saw a piece about his bus - it's friggin amazing!

 

[Lyuokdea]

John Madden doesn't fly either. Ever notice that he doesn't cover the Pro Bowl? It's in Hawaii.
I saw a piece about his bus - it's friggin amazing!

It must be a hard trek, because by the time he gets there, he sure can't announce to save his life.

~Lyuokdea

 

[Alkatran]

I notice there's an entry for "Genitals (Female)" but none for "Genitals (Male)". Everybody loves that particular appendage, apparently.

And that there's one for good news. How can you be afraid of good news? Wouldn't that make it bad news by definition?

 

[honestrosewater]

Okay, I realize that I'm talking a lot, so I'll just make this quick. It's great to talk about this too.

Yes, sometimes when I manage to face some of these things, they can be surprisingly easy to get over. It's just that my initial reaction isn't to suffer through them - it's to prevent, avoid, argue, try to control, whatever to just get the pain to stop - and that just makes things worse. I felt so silly when I read someone else explain this. I was just making it worse the whole time! Oh, and my first successful exposure was exhilarating! It was hell to go through, but when it was over and I had reached my goal, I felt so empowered and hopeful. :!)

My 'subconscious' seems to be very smart too. The things that my OCD chooses to latch onto are all things that meet very specific requirements. And when it found the "God can do anything - and I can't know whether God exists" argument, it beat all of my attempts to argue about improbability or impossibility. It's also sometimes led me to wonder if God is actually doing this to me, to try to prove something to me (I don't want to start an argument about God with anyone!) - that's just how deep it goes and how upsetting it is. It just invades everything. Well, I say 'it', but it's part of me, just not me. Eh. Whatever.

 

[hypnagogue]

How long does the thought or image last or how easily can you dismiss it? I have thoughts that aren't a part of my OCD and can dismiss them easily - and they don't cause anxiety either. For instance, I can think now that the roof might collapse on me, but this doesn't bother me, and I can just say, 'Sure, but I'll just have to live with that possibility'.

It depends. When I'm by myself the images tend to be more frequent and last longer, I suppose because I'm not being distracted from them by talking or otherwise being absorbed in other thoughts. I can dismiss them fairly easily, I suppose, but when they tend to happen is when I'm somewhat absent-minded so it might not occur to me to take any action one way or the other, but rather I just let my mind drift. I guess there's not a lot of metacognition going on when this happens.

My emotional feeling towards the images tends to be more like a kind of detached curiosity than anything else. This is particularly true for the train track images, I suppose in part because I always spontaneously imagine myself climbing back onto the platform in time to be safe, so there's no real sense of danger. The detached curiosity attitude occurs when the images are relatively fringey, sort of muted and in the background kind of things.

Since I don't take well to heights, it sometimes occurs that the mental images of falling over the railing take on a heightened sense of danger, vividness, and ultimately reality. The images become more vivid both perceptually and emotionally, and it's those instances where I get pangs of apprehension. However, they're usually relatively brief and not terribly disturbing in the grand scheme of things. I do however get a feeling as if I have to restrain myself from actually carrying out the image and climbing over the railing-- subjectively, it's very much like (say) the urge you feel to walk over to your fridge to get a snack before you actually do so. Since there is evidence that mental images can prime motor responses (the ideomotor effect, e.g. as demonstrated in the Chevreul pendulum), I suppose this is not too surprising-- a more vivid mental image might actually be activating some pre-potent motor activity in the brain, which would account for the subjective feeling as if one was about to carry out the act and needed to actively inhibit it.

I also get the thought that other people might fall or be pushed onto the tracks when I see people standing by them (on TV or such), as happens more often now after the attacks in London. Same thing happens when I see people using sharp knives or other dangerous things. And this causes anxiety too - like I want to and should try to save them from danger. Do you guys worry about trying to save other people from danger too? This thread is really surprising me so far.

I do get that feeling sometimes as well, but only for my particular fear, heights. When someone stands near the railing of a tall building, I get the compulsive feeling that I need to stand very close by just in case some situation arises where I would have to prevent them from climbing over or otherwise falling off. Standing a far distance away is simply unbearable, so I'm compelled to follow people around very closely (this has happened a number of times in my experience since I live in an apartment building with a pretty nice view, so the roof is a nice place to visit and hang out).

Actually, I recall going on the roof one time with my father when I was very young, probably around 7. I think we were up there to watch fireworks on the 4th of July. In any case, at that time I had a reverse kind of compulsion-- I refused to go anywhere near the railing, especially if my father was near me, because I feared he'd push me off! Of course this was a totally irrational fear-- my parents are not abusive or anything-- but it persisted nonetheless. I wound up telling my dad about this fear but consoled him by saying something like, "it's OK, I wouldn't trust mom either!"

If you want to be able to fly or live with other fears, you can try some imaginal Exposure and Response Prevention. I'll try to find a good link about it. It's not like kooky, crackpot stuff, or at least, I don't think so - it makes sense to me and has a successful record.

Sounds like something I could use. I might be going on a plane flight some time in the relatively near future.

 

[honestrosewater]

Okay, I didn't read all of it, but this looks like a good site: http://www.mindbodyconsult.com/ocd/art_comptreatment.html
You may want to skip through the first part, as it just describes some aspects of OCD, but it might be helpful to read it. Since the therapies described are tailored specifically to OCD, if your situation is different, it may be necessary to adapt some parts to your situation. For instance, when Exposure and Response Prevention (ERP) is used to treat cases where a person doesn't realize that they are overreacting to a feared event, ERP may focus on the actual probability and consequences of the feared event. This would actually be counterproductive in treating someone with OCD, as it is just neutralizing. So comparing your situation to the one presented may help you to identify where and what adaptations you should make, if any.
You may also just want to take bits and pieces of it. For instance, I haven't used a tape recorder yet and have still had some success without it. I think you're smart enough to figure out what works for you, but I'll try to find something for specific phobias, if you think that that may be more appropriate. I suppose doing anything incorrectly could possibly do some harm, but I've never heard of this happening with ERP. [Edit: Oops, it can make things worse in some situations. And of course, the normal self-directed therapy precautions should be taken.] I've only heard of its failure to work making people frustrated or hopeless.
The actual instructions are hard to find on the internet. I've only seen them explained in books. But I have read that ERP is effective in treating specific phobias, so I'll keep looking. I have to go right now.

 

[Moonbear]

If anyone around here thinks I'm a pretty rational, stable person, you might be surprised to see the list that I'm working on of my obsessions and compulsions. It's nowhere near finished, but gives you an idea of how different a person can be from their disorder. Looking at the list myself, I'm rather amazed that I manage to function at all. The list has a specific purpose and isn't meant to be shown to just anyone, so if you do read it and don't understand what I'm talking about, you can see this.

I've been kind of bouncing around this thread and not reading every reply thoroughly, so please forgive me if I say something redundant. I just read through your list and what struck me is not so much what's on the list, but how you organized it. I now understand your appreciation of formal logic. I see it as a desire to keep everything organized and clearly explained, with all the terms perfectly defined, perhaps in an effort to gain some control over things you feel are out of your control?

 

[Math Is Hard]

One way that the intrusive thoughts of OCD are frequently described is ego-dystonic, meaning they seem alien and not part of you or your nature. I know what these thoughts are, and I have had them from time to time in my life, but not so significantly that I would call them a disorder in my case. It was comforting when I took abnormal psych - I understood that these thoughts aren't part of me, that they are more like a little brain malfunction. If one pops up in my head now, I just say, "I know exactly what you are" and I don't worry too much about it.

My teacher, a cognitive-behavioral therapist at UCLA, said he had seen remarkable results in many patients who took medication, especially the ones suffering from very severe symptoms who seemed to get no relief from anything else. I think it might be worthwhile to give it a try if the symptoms are severely affecting your quality of life. If they are mild, maybe cognitive therapy could help keep them in check.

 

[zoobyshoe]

I know what these thoughts are, and I have had them from time to time in my life, but not so significantly that I would call them a disorder in my case.

Yes, I've had thoughts like this bother me from time to time, but they never "took", as it were, and became a disorder.

I regarded them, not as problems in and of themselves, but indications that something else was "off", like I'd been drinking too much lately, or staying up too late worrying about my life, or worrying too much about something. Some general physical/psychological wrongness seemed to set the stage for these kinds of intrusive, weird thoughts. The thoughts, themselves, just seemed like symptoms of the greater malaise, which I was usually able to pinpoint and do something about.

 

[Math Is Hard]

Some general physical/psychological wrongness seemed to set the stage for these kinds of intrusive, weird thoughts. The thoughts, themselves, just seemed like symptoms of the greater malaise, which I was usually able to pinpoint and do something about.

Sounds logical. And it's certainly in keeping with the diathesis-stress model. Of course, the first time I noticed this "quirkiness" about myself, I was around 10 years old, and I don't know what I would have been stressed about. I went through these "symmetry" compulsions. If I scratched the right side of my face I had to scratch the left. If I tapped on something with my left foot, I had to tap with my right. Everything had to balance. And I don't know what I thought would happen if I didn't follow through on the side for side matching, nothing specific, just that I felt so uneasy and miserable if I didn't follow through on the action on the opposite side. Weird, huh? It didn't persist into adolescence, though.

 

[zoobyshoe]

I went through these "symmetry" compulsions. If I scratched the right side of my face I had to scratch the left. If I tapped on something with my left foot, I had to tap with my right. Everything had to balance.

I don't think I ever had anything quite like that.

The kind of stuff that bothered me was more like Hypnagogue's strange fear he was going to jump onto the train tracks. Also, some instances where if I didn't do something right, it might cause a big disaster somewhere else, a la The Butterfly Effect: a small change here can cause a big change somewhere else, or Magical Thinking, where you think that something you do or think might have an effect on something you actually have no control over.
In my case, I'm sure I learned that habit of thought from saying my prayers at night as a kid. Even when I stopped going to church, that ingrained notion that you can magically control things by wishing can rear it's strange head in different forms.

This was especially true when I was still acting: an upcoming performance put me so on edge I would start having these sorts of psychological reactions depending on how well I thought rehearsals were going.
Outside of acting, the stress was always tied to some future event which I "needed" to go perfectly, despite having no real control over the ultimate outcome. Job interviews, and stuff like that. In other words; most of the stress was self-inflicted. To the extent I could pinpoint that, and relax about things, the intrusive thoughts also faded away. They were spinoffs of being overwrought about something else.

 

[Chronos]

All stress is self-inflicted. It's the guilt over what fell from your arms while running running for your life.

 

[honestrosewater]

I've been kind of bouncing around this thread and not reading every reply thoroughly, so please forgive me if I say something redundant. I just read through your list and what struck me is not so much what's on the list, but how you organized it. I now understand your appreciation of formal logic. I see it as a desire to keep everything organized and clearly explained, with all the terms perfectly defined, perhaps in an effort to gain some control over things you feel are out of your control?

The certainty that's possible with logic is definitely comforting and attractive to me. I'm interested in logic for reasons unrelated to my problems, but I think that my general 'personality traits' are what prompted me to start studying it. I actually didn't start studying logic until I had been at PF for a while and was disturbed by some of the chaotic arguments in the philosophy forums.

I do have what I guess you could call perfectionist tendencies (did anyone else notice that I misspelled 'creak'?). Maybe it's more than that, maybe Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder, but I'm not sure - and I'm wary of the self-diagnosis thing anyway.

This list is my, I don't know, sixth attempt. It was originally part of my self-directed therapy, but as I worked on the lists, I realized that I probably can't handle this on my own anymore. This newest list is just to give to my therapist when I finally go to one, because I don't want to go unprepared and waste time or forget something and get a wrong diagnosis, etc. I'm having a lot of trouble making the list come out right, but how many problems can I deal with at once? I may just give up on the list-making.