What Are Your Thoughts on Obama's Appointments and Holbrooke's AIG Role?

[Astronuc]

Oct 11

...
MODERATOR: ... Somalia.

BUSH: Started off as a humanitarian mission and it changed into a nation-building mission, and that's where the mission went wrong. The mission was changed. And as a result, our nation paid a price. And so I don't think our troops ought to be used for what's called nation-building. I think our troops ought to be used to fight and win war. I think our troops ought to be used to help overthrow the dictator when it's in our best interests. But in this case it was a nation-building exercise, and same with Haiti. I wouldn't have supported either...

Bush said this kind of thing repeatedly in the 2000 campaign. That all changed after 911.

Thank you for proving my point. Bush did say "I think our troops ought to be used to fight and win war. I think our troops ought to be used to help overthrow the dictator when it's in our best interests," and so far Saddam Hussein is the only dictator overthrown by the Bush administration. And it's clear from the occupation, there was no adequate plan to rebuild what was destroyed, or protect the population. Many Iraqis are still without reliable electricity or clean water.

Iraq was already on Bush's radar screen - first cabinet meeting of 2001. Of course, Iraq had nothing to do with al Qaida or 9/11, but that's an inconvenient truth.

Somalia and Haiti are simply poor countries, so no interest in helping them, although there is a little aid that trickles in. Malnutrition, starvation and high infant mortality rates are problems there. Now if there was oil, perhaps Bush would intervene based on an interest in the oil.

 

[mheslep]

Thank you for proving my point. Bush did say "I think our troops ought to be used to fight and win war. I think our troops ought to be used to help overthrow the dictator when it's in our best interests," and so far Saddam Hussein is the only dictator overthrown by the Bush administration.

Your point is oblique to me, perhaps you could clearly state it. The issue appears to be Bush pre 911 intentions in Iraq which you state are in conflict with his recent statements. His comment that the US military might be used to thwart a dictator, after the Gulf war, was simply rehashing history. I also have read a fair amount of Woodward on Iraq, but I've missed anything on pre 911 war intentions as you imply here and in other threads. What evidence does he provide that Bush intended prior to 911 to invade Iraq. And let's not get side tracked with Wolfowitz and the like who favored it. Your statement was about Bush.

And it's clear from the occupation, there was no adequate plan to rebuild what was destroyed, or protect the population. Many Iraqis are still without reliable electricity or clean water.

"And ..."? Is this an argument or a list of grievances? The occupation was fumbled and poorly planned. What does that have to do with pre 911 Iraq intentions?

Iraq was already on Bush's radar screen - first cabinet meeting of 2001. Of course, Iraq had nothing to do with al Qaida or 9/11, but that's an inconvenient truth.

Iraq was on everybody's 'radar screen', and much more so in the Clinton administration and VP Gore's public statements prior to the 2000 election, as you must know from the Iraq literature. If Sen. Obama brings up Iran in his first cabinet meeting, does this mean he has secret intentions of invading it?

Somalia and Haiti are simply poor countries, so no interest in helping them, although there is a little aid that trickles in. Malnutrition, starvation and high infant mortality rates are problems there. Now if there was oil, perhaps Bush would intervene based on an interest in the oil.

Pres. Bush's 2000 debate comments addressed his reticence to sending in the military. The Bush administration has greatly increased aid to Africa, far more so than its predecessors. What would you have a US administration do instead? Regards oil, the better argument is that oil interests kept the US, the West, and the UN OUT of Iraq during the 90's, and not the other way around.

 

[turbo]

After Sharp Words on C.I.A., Obama Faces a Delicate Task
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/03/us/politics/03intel.html

Profiles of nominees to Obama's administration
http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/us/series/the_new_team/index.html

I hope Holbrooke doesn't get a position. It would surprise me if he got a Dep Sec slot at State.

I hope Holbrook doesn't get the South Asian affairs position. He did not comport himself well when Suharto was slaughtering the East Timorese.

 

[mgb_phys]

I hope Holbrook doesn't get the South Asian affairs position. He did not comport himself well when Suharto was slaughtering the East Timorese.

Although he didn't actually then try and sell them the weapons - by current presidential standards that makes him Mother Therasa.

 

[Gokul43201]

...
I also have read a fair amount of Woodward on Iraq, but I've missed anything on pre 911 war intentions as you imply here and in other threads. What evidence does he provide that Bush intended prior to 911 to invade Iraq.

I think what is well known is that there was a lot of Iraq/Saddam debate^* going on in the Bush cabinet prior to 9/11. The neocon wing of the cabinet were positing military options against Saddam which was being stronglyopposed by State. I don't think it's very clear whether Bush was strongly in favor of one side or the other, at this point. By 2002 though, it seems that Bush had been more or less fully swayed by the neocon argument.

^* Just after Bush took office, there was the famous Security briefing by outgoing Sec Def Cohen, for instance, that was being reported as being all about Iraq.

 

[jreelawg]

I agree, Gates is a good man.

Unfortunately, at any time he can cite the number of days that he has left. Maybe with new blood in the White House, he will be willing to stay for a time.

What is so good about gates?

I think he is questionable considering his involvement in building up Iraq into the threat it became.

"On 9 June 1992, Ted Koppel reported on ABC's Nightline, "It is becoming increasingly clear that George H.W. Bush, operating largely behind the scenes throughout the 1980s, initiated and supported much of the financing, intelligence, and military help that built Saddam's Iraq into" the power it became, and "Reagan/Bush administrations permitted — and frequently encouraged — the flow of money, agricultural credits, dual-use technology, chemicals, and weapons to Iraq.”

"The CIA, including both CIA Director Casey and Deputy Director Gates, knew of, approved of, and assisted in the sale of non-U.S. origin military weapons, ammunition and vehicles to Iraq. My notes, memoranda and other documents in my NSC files show or tend to show that the CIA knew of, approved of, and assisted in the sale of non-U.S. origin military weapons, munitions and vehicles to Iraq."

"On 25 May 1994, The U.S. Senate Banking Committee released a report in which it was stated that "pathogenic (meaning 'disease producing'), toxigenic (meaning 'poisonous'), and other biological research materials were exported to Iraq pursuant to application and licensing by the U.S. Department of Commerce." It added: "These exported biological materials were not attenuated or weakened and were capable of reproduction."[20]
The report then detailed 70 shipments (including Bacillus anthracis) from the United States to Iraqi government agencies over three years, concluding "It was later learned that these microorganisms exported by the United States were identical to those the UN inspectors found and recovered from the Iraqi biological warfare program."[21]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._support_for_Iraq_during_the_Iran-Iraq_war

 

[Office_Shredder]

He was a young gun back then... too much privilege, not enough power... like all kids at the time, going through a phase of experimenting with recreational arms smuggling

 

[Art]

Although he didn't actually then try and sell them the weapons - by current presidential standards that makes him Mother Therasa.

Probably just didn't want to upset Britain and it's arms exports at that time

 

[mheslep]

I think what is well known is that there was a lot of Iraq/Saddam debate^* going on in the Bush cabinet prior to 9/11. The neocon wing of the cabinet were positing military options against Saddam which was being stronglyopposed by State. I don't think it's very clear whether Bush was strongly in favor of one side or the other, at this point. By 2002 though, it seems that Bush had been more or less fully swayed by the neocon argument.

Agreed, that's generally my take. I'll add that the history of the regime change people goes all the way back to the end of the Gulf War and the follow-on slaughter of the Shia and Kurds by the Bathists.

 

[Gokul43201]

The US Constitution: Article 1, Section 6

Section 6: The Senators and Representatives shall receive a compensation for their services, to be ascertained by law, and paid out of the treasury of the United States. They shall in all cases, except treason, felony and breach of the peace, be privileged from arrest during their attendance at the session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from the same; and for any speech or debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other place.

No Senator or Representative shall, during the time for which he was elected, be appointed to any civil office under the authority of the United States, which shall have been created, or the emoluments whereof shall have been increased during such time: and no person holding any office under the United States, shall be a member of either House during his continuance in office.

Now, following Sec. 3a of a http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2008/01/20080104-6.html from Jan 4, 2008, we have a raise in the Salary of Sec State.

Fortunately for Obama, Hillary's not a he!

 

[mheslep]

The US Constitution: Article 1, Section 6

Now, following Sec. 3a of a http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2008/01/20080104-6.html from Jan 4, 2008, we have a raise in the Salary of Sec State.

Fortunately for Obama, Hillary's not a he!

Also if she had been elected President she could have remained in office for life as

The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold his Office during the Term of four Years, and, together with the Vice-President chosen for the same Term, be elected, as follows:

 

[Gokul43201]

Phew! Dodged that one!

 

[mgb_phys]

Probably just didn't want to upset Britain and it's arms exports at that time

Those were hawk trainers - the enquiry said so. It's just to make the training more realistic they painted them in camouflage colours and fitted bomb racks. Then they could do really realistic live fire exercise in rebel areas.

 

[drankin]

Also if she had been elected President she could have remained in office for life as

Interesting. The Constitution never intended women to hold that office.

 

[Gokul43201]

Interesting. The Constitution never intended women to hold that office.

Heck, the Constitution never intended for women to be able to vote for the men seeking that office.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Steven Chu to be energy chief

 

[Gokul43201]

Wooo!

 

[mheslep]

Wooo!

No, Chu

 

[Astronuc]

Chu to bring fresh perspective,
scientific integrity to Obama's DOE

Interesting comment in the trade press.
http://www.restructuringtoday.com/members/login.cfm?hpage=10529.cfm (requires registration - but one can read the headline)

Obama names Chicago school chief to Education Dept.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081216/ap_on_go_pr_wh/obama

CHICAGO – President-elect Barack Obama announced Arne Duncan, the head of the Chicago school system, as education secretary Tuesday and declared that failing to improve classroom instruction is "morally unacceptable for our children."

"When it comes to school reform, Arne is the most hands-on of hands-on practitioners," Obama said, making the announcement at a school that he said has made remarkable progress under Duncan's leadership.
. . .

 

[BobG]

Ken Salazar, Senator from Colorado, is expected to be the Secretary of the Interior. Salazar Interior News

Good choice for Obama. Kind of a loss for Colorado.

 

[Astronuc]

NAS, NAE, and IOM Members to Fill Obama Energy, Climate, and Science Posts
http://nationalacademies.org/headlines/20081223.html

December 23, 2008 - U.S. President-elect Barack Obama has selected academy members Steven Chu, John P. Holdren, and Jane Lubchenco as his nominees for secretary of energy, chief science adviser, and administrator of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.

. . . .

 

[chemisttree]

Bill Richardson, http://www.chicoer.com/business/ci_11370767" , withdraws his name from consideration of Sec. of Commerce.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aL0GGUluJeT8&refer=worldwide"

It's doubtful that he wouldn't have been confirmed, IMO.

 

[Astronuc]

Obama has apparently nominated Leon Panetta for Dir. of CIA??

In addition to Richardson, apparently Hillary Clinton has a potential conflict with someone donating to Bill Clinton's foundation.

 

[LowlyPion]

Obama has apparently nominated Leon Panetta for Dir. of CIA??

In addition to Richardson, apparently Hillary Clinton has a potential conflict with someone donating to Bill Clinton's foundation.

Panetta is an interesting choice. Certainly there is a message there that things will change at The Agency. He seems more a civilian than a backroom security insider. I'd guess that it won't be business as usual there, though looking at the way Bush and Cheney cast aside their intelligence reports on Iraq and cherry picked from the ether whatever they might use as cover for their personal agendas they can hardly be blamed for the last administration's foreign policy blunders.

As to Richardson I think you are right. I think he would be confirmed. ... at least from what seems to be known now. The world of politics and finances is so complex with contributions that it is a wonder that the appearance of impropriety doesn't taint every one that runs and is elected.

Of course people contribute to candidates that they figure will give them the best hearing and likelihood to act in the interests of the donors. Until contributions are universally prohibited there will undoubtedly always be correlations to uncover after the fact as to there being possible pay to play arrangements. My sense is that Richardson has merely been caught up in something that is more coincidence than fact. It would be highly disappointing if there is more to it however.

 

[turbo]

Richardson is a skilled troubleshooter (foreign affairs), diplomat, and negotiator. He was my first choice (only, actually) for State. I was quite disappointed with the sop that Obama threw to Clinton, if only because her "foreign policy" experience was "ducking sniper fire in Bosnia". She could have traveled to remote Alaskan islands with Palin and gained a lot more relevant experience watching those sneaky Russkies. Political expediency will come back to bite Obama on the ***, in this case, IMO. Don't ask a celebrity to grow into a job like State - it's too critical.

 

[LowlyPion]

I grant you that Hilary's recitation of dodging bullets in Bosnia was not her finest hour, but that aside, I still think that she is qualified for the position. Maybe even more so than Richardson, if only for the stature provided by the support base of those votes that she earned in the primaries. She as well continues to speak for a section of the US electorate and one would think she brings that gravitas to the projection of Obama's policies abroad.

As someone who was at one time prepared to see her President, I have no problem with her selection as Secretary of State. And while I certainly respect Richardson and like his candor, I'd say that his ambition may be a bit ahead of his circumstances. While this may be a brief setback in the short term, he is after all only giving up Commerce, and who is to know what the future may hold for him by being available in the future.

 

[turbo]

Clinton's value may only be recognized if she surrounds herself with skilled, experienced diplomats and heeds their advice. Diplomats like Richardson who have some experience... The Clintons are the ultimate political/celebrity animals, and I fear that Obama's State appointment will come back to haunt him. When you've got baggage like Bill and Hill, you have to keep that in mind in touchy situations. Bill Richardson would have been good, Bill Cohen would have been a good choice, too, and his moderate views and Republican affiliation would have been a real plus.

 

[Astronuc]

Team Obama dabbles in drama
http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20090106/pl_politico/17089

Interesting commentary.

Apparently Bill Richardson wasn't fully vetted.

Jake Tapper of ABC News recently reported that “officials on the Obama transition team feel that, before he was formally offered the job of commerce secretary, New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson was not forthcoming with them about the federal investigation that is looking into whether the governor steered a state contract towards a major financial contributor.”

I hope the next administration doesn't become a many-headed Hydra of conflicting voices and policies.

Blagojevich and Burris are a side show.

 

[IPart]

"Chief Performance Officer" - Nancy Killefer. Thoughts anyone?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Clinton was just confirmed as S of S

 

[Astronuc]

RE: Clinton

Clinton vows robust diplomacy as State Dept chief
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090122/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/clinton

WASHINGTON – Hillary Rodham Clinton took charge of the State Department on Thursday, proclaiming the start of a new era of robust U.S. diplomacy to tackle the world's crises and improve America's standing abroad.

Before a raucous, cheering crowd of about 1,000 people, the nation's 67th secretary of state pledged to boost the morale and resources of the diplomatic corps and promised them a difficult but exciting road ahead.

"I believe with all of my heart that this is a new era for America," she said to loud applause in the main lobby of the department's headquarters, which President Barack Obama visited later in the day to underscore his administration's commitment to diplomacy.

With Obama at her side in the ornate Ben Franklin Room, Clinton introduced former Senate Majority Leader George J. Mitchell, D-Maine, as a special envoy for the Middle East. Former U.N. ambassador Richard Holbrooke was announced as a special adviser on Afghanistan and Pakistan.
. . . .

Yay - George Mitchell!

#$%@&*@#$%^&*~ - Richard Holbrooke. Big mistake to put that Clinton cronie as special adviser on Pakistan and Afghanistan. Waste of taxpayer money!

 

[turbo]

Yay - George Mitchell!

Maine has some pretty good statesmen, including Mitchell and Bill Cohen. This may pass some people, but George comes out of a family that helped make our region of the state strong. There is a very hard-working and well-respected group of immigrants that have contributed a lot to this area. Guess what? They are Christian Lebanese immigrants. Obama chose well.

 

[mheslep]

RE: Clinton

Clinton vows robust diplomacy as State Dept chief
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090122/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/clinton

Yay - George Mitchell!

#$%@&*@#$%^&*~ - Richard Holbrooke. Big mistake to put that Clinton cronie as special adviser on Pakistan and Afghanistan. Waste of taxpayer money!

How so? Obviously the guy is highly capable - 6 years Vietnam, successful on Wall St, Ambassador to Germany, successful Balkan envoy, UN. I see he might be tied up in some Countrywide sweetheart deals. Other than that, what did he do that's so contemptible?

 

[Astronuc]

How so? Obviously the guy is highly capable - 6 years Vietnam, successful on Wall St, Ambassador to Germany, successful Balkan envoy, UN. I see he might be tied up in some Countrywide sweetheart deals. Other than that, what did he do that's so contemptible?

I don't see anything great achievement in Vietnam. There are a lot of successful people on Wall Street, but they benefit from the hard work of others. Ambassadorships are political appointments, which are not necessarily based on merit.

Re: Wall Stree - "In January 1981, Holbrooke left government and became both senior advisor to Lehman Brothers . . . . From 1985 until 1993, he served as managing director of Lehman Brothers." Where is Lehman Brothers now?

By his own admission, he got drunk during the negotation of the Dayton Accords, and thought he had an agreement when he didn't. I believe it was Tuđman who was left out because they got drunk and forgot to include him. When dealing with peoples lives, one keeps a clear mind.

I didn't particularly care for Clinton's foreign policy, which was worse than his domestic policy, and which has contributed to some of the problems during the last 8 years.

 

[mheslep]

I don't see anything great achievement in Vietnam. There are a lot of successful people on Wall Street, but they benefit from the hard work of others. Ambassadorships are political appointments, which are not necessarily based on merit.

Re: Wall Stree - "In January 1981, Holbrooke left government and became both senior advisor to Lehman Brothers . . . . From 1985 until 1993, he served as managing director of Lehman Brothers." Where is Lehman Brothers now?

By his own admission, he got drunk during the negotation of the Dayton Accords, and thought he had an agreement when he didn't. I believe it was Tuđman who was left out because they got drunk and forgot to include him. When dealing with peoples lives, one keeps a clear mind.

Had not seen that. Of course if one is good enough and drinks enough, they pull out Lincoln's quote about Grants bottle habit: "find out what he drinks and give it to my other generals"

I didn't particularly care for Clinton's foreign policy, which was worse than his domestic policy, and which has contributed to some of the problems during the last 8 years.

Neither did I, but I wouldn't out of hand disqualify anyone from that era working in the new admin, especially someone down at the envoy level.