What does a woman value MOST in a man?

[SOS2008]

You're right, the remarks about guys who are into working out were stereotypical--sorry 'bout that. I do feel it is fair to say, however, that if it is an obsession, it can be a problem.

Be yourself and never change that. ...Personally, I recommend to not look for someone. Just enjoy life and talk to people. You will find someone eventually, which can be next week or in a year.

Good advice regardless of gender.

I wouldn't confuse being who you are (values, etc.), with not trying to improve throughout your life. It is normal to change over time, especially when young...most people don't become who they will be until 30 or so. Still, it is not to say you are "hard-wired" and can't learn and grow.

 

[KingNothing]

I used to be buff and I was never ignorant. Ignorance is not part of becoming buff.

Believe it or not, I covered it like all the time. I wore SWEATERS in the summer! My gf at the time hated that, but I just didn't like sharing it.

I'm on my way to try and get it partially back, and ignorance isn't on the to do list. The stereotypes against buff guys are terrible because I have not met too many ignorant ones.

Being ignorant isn't a requirement to being buff, but the lifestyle that accompanies good muscle mass gaining most of the time does involve ignorance. And it does require being ignorant to the majority of trainers who are underqualified and do not know what they are talking about.

And to be honest, stereotypes are very useful things. Although they aren't 100% accurate, and often not even 75%, most people don't have time to find out the details about everyone.

 

[Gale]

didn't read everyone elses posts, i will when I'm less tired. But ya, i picked intelligence and personality. Usually when a guy is really sweet and knows how to think, i have no problem at all seeing him as very cute and sexy. actually, if any guy could actually put up with me and understand me, i'd probably worship him as a sex god. personality is like everything. i can rationalize anybody type if the guy gives me a good reason to.

 

[Astronuc]

Remove personal refs in quotes

Part of it is due to the fact that getting to be really buff reqires some ignorance and much dedication.

Ignorance of what?

Being ignorant isn't a requirement to being buff, but the lifestyle that accompanies good muscle mass gaining most of the time does involve ignorance.

Not necessarily It requires discipline and understanding of physiology, especially doing it without the use of steroids. There are appropriate weight-training programs depending on what someone wants to achieve in terms of strength.

My current avatar picture is taken from when I first met my wife. I weighed 80 kgs and had a minimum strength-to-weight (STW) ratio of 1.5. I enjoyed sports like soccer (football), running and cycling. Now my weight is back down (70 kgs) to where it was when I left high school and my STW is slightly more than one.

Brains and brawn can go hand in hand. I qualified for a PhD program, but left for industry and to raise a family. And one can see from my posts in the science and engineering forums, that I am reasonably intelligent.

The stereotypes against buff guys are terrible because I have not met too many ignorant ones.

Yeah, but some men perhaps do fit the stereotype, but many others do not.

Stereotypes are prejudicial, and in general, not helpful or useful. I prefer to give people the benefit of doubt, and I don't pre-judge.

p.s. I don't post to impress anyone. I write to teach and provoke thought. I am both a student and teacher of Life.

An important quality to being a considerate and thoughtful person is self-reflection, or introspection.

 

[Clausius2]

EXTRACTED CONCLUSIONS SO FAR:

1) Women here "seem" an exception of the rule.

2) Either they are not being sincere, or they belong to a reduced statiscal group.

3) Another possibility they are so ugly that look for intelligence and personality because eventually pretty boys are not going to flirt with them never.

4) What happens? I have seen a lot of examples about really beautiful women being with stupid muscled guys, rich men, or famous-popular guys. My personal experience is: pretty girl + empty head man.

5) For instance, I haven't got car, and so the list of available girls is reduced considerably. Guys, do you think that it would be the same if I had a Porsche in my garage?.

6) Am I the only man here who has the same impression?. I see that Mattnms has said something I agree with it about women sincerity. Voting here for the "politically correct" option of intelligence and personality is quite far of real world.

I desire you are such an exception.

 

[Telos]

Well, I definitely look for a woman who looks for intelligence and personality in a man! She should take me seriously - if she doesn't, I'm not likely to take her seriously.

Clausius, the question is "what do you look for in...?" not "what do you already see?" Attractiveness and unattractiveness are things we already see. You don't have to look for them. So, I think you're eliciting very normal and healthy very real world answers.

I'm not trying to argue semantics, but to point out that you've uncovered something very authentic. I don't think the women of this forum are much exception (they are, of course, obviously exceptional in other ways) and that you will have little trouble finding a woman who looks for intelligence and personality.

You just have to look for it in them. ;)

[Edit: Oops, the question is actually "what does a woman value most in..." Sorry, I guess attention to detail is what separates economists from physicists. ;) But it's still the "in" that counts.]

 

[Polly]

Honestly? At the risk of being banned? Masculinity, everything that differentiates him from a woman, e.g. courage, tenacity, physical strength. For unless he is every bite oozing with manhood, he doesn't make me feel like a woman and it doesn't feel exciting or sexy to be with him.

 

[Moonbear]

EXTRACTED CONCLUSIONS SO FAR:

1) Women here "seem" an exception of the rule.

Clausius, that's not very scientific of you. You have your data and you've decided to dismiss it as an exception when every woman here has given you the same response. Considering we are of a variety of ages and walks of life, you'd be hard-pressed to show that's an exception.

2) Either they are not being sincere, or they belong to a reduced statiscal group.

3) Another possibility they are so ugly that look for intelligence and personality because eventually pretty boys are not going to flirt with them never.

And that sort of attitude will never get you any women. If you yourself are only interested in appearances, and not intelligence or personality, is it any wonder that's what you find? To accuse an entire group of women of being insincere when we have no reason not to be is not a good way of attracting them either. This goes to personality again.

4) What happens? I have seen a lot of examples about really beautiful women being with stupid muscled guys, rich men, or famous-popular guys. My personal experience is: pretty girl + empty head man.

I think you're exhibiting a great deal of jealousy in that statement. Do you know the men these women are dating, or do you assume they are empty-headed because they are muscular? How do you know they are rich either? Have you asked for their financial records?

5) For instance, I haven't got car, and so the list of available girls is reduced considerably. Guys, do you think that it would be the same if I had a Porsche in my garage?.

If you present yourself to women the way you have in this thread, where you've dismissed their opinions and reduced them to nothing more than appearances (such as your statement that personality and intelligence is only important if we aren't good looking), then no car or amount of money in the world is going to help. I don't know if it's a joke in other parts of the world, but in the US, women joke that a flashy sports car is to compensate for other things a man lacks. In other words, if a man thinks he can impress women with a car, only a shallow woman who wants his car instead of him will be interested.

6) Am I the only man here who has the same impression?. I see that Mattnms has said something I agree with it about women sincerity. Voting here for the "politically correct" option of intelligence and personality is quite far of real world.

No, we haven't voted because it's politically correct, we've voted from our own experiences of who we will date. If a guy is as dumb as a box of rocks, no amount of looks or money can make him interesting. Same goes for men who view women as objects and not people. If you're trying to ask out random women on dates based entirely on their appearances, and haven't even taken the time to find out anything about them first to decide if you'd actually want to spend time in their company, you are not going to succeed. This is especially true for the good-looking AND intelligent women. If that is the type of woman you'd like to meet, it is a huge turn-off to only be interested in her physical appearance and not be interested in her intelligence and personality as well.

If you only are interested in meeting women who are physically pretty and are not not interested in them having any intelligence, then don't be surprised if they are the same way, looking for only men who are physically good-looking, but have no intelligence. Because there is one thing all the women here have in common, and that is intelligence. To an intelligent woman, a man who treats her as only an object to look at is entirely unattractive.

 

[mattmns]

Personally, I recommend to not look for someone. Just enjoy life and talk to people. You will find someone eventually, which can be next week or in a year.

I met my current gf while not looking at all, and I must say I'm blown away. I can't even put it into words, but I try to.

I agree with Jason here. Note: Not on the part about being blown away by his gf

However, Clausius, if you really must find a woman now, then you might want to try one of the online services. You would probably be more comfortable, and you could see their interest, pictures, education, etc., before you even talk to them.

I think Moonbear sums it up nicely:

If you only are interested in meeting women who are physically pretty and are not not interested in them having any intelligence, then don't be surprised if they are the same way, looking for only men who are physically good-looking, but have no intelligence. Because there is one thing all the women here have in common, and that is intelligence. To an intelligent woman, a man who treats her as only an object to look at is entirely unattractive.

 

[Clausius2]

EXTRACTED CONCLUSIONS AFTER MOONBEAR HAS JUST TALKED ABOUT ME:



1) I am not looking for a stupid woman, understanding stupid as a woman who doesn't have any substance inside his head, no matter how she looks. BUT, to be sincere, I think there are few men on this planet who would reject one night with Pamela Anderson or whoever the typical stupid blonde is (I am not saying all blondies are stupid by the way).

2) Of course I am the first man who would be happy if the option of intelligence and personality win not only here but everywhere, because I think it will mean I have some possibility.

3) Do not dare to take me as a desperated man. I am not very lucky with my physical apperance but I think it is enough for me (I weigh 76 Kg and heigh 1.85m). By the way I have been a football player till some time ago, so I am not too out of fitness. As far as intelligence is concerned, my studies are enough proof of that, and I am not going to underline it more. I assume my personality is a bit strange (if it were not so, I wouldn't writting in PF).

4) Therefore I always look for something more than good looking in a woman, although I have to admit that appearance is a needed condition to establish a further relationship. I mean, good looking---->possible relationship; good looking without any substance into his head---->impossible relationship.

5) This is not a thread about what the men want a woman to be.

6) If every you are being sincere, I celeb it. I wish there were more women like you, Moonbear.

Clarification: this thread correspond to an actual situation in which I don't understand the behavior of some person who is usually near me. Although you don't understand it, some comments you posted might be useful at least in some vague manner.

 

[Gale]

well, i think maybe us pf women are a little different... elsewise we probably wouldn't even be at pf. Obviously we all enjoy intelligent friendly conversation right? so we'd like to have intelligent friendly men.

Me, personally, i really really like intelligent guys. Maybe cause i grew up in a really small town, but there weren't like any really smart guys. And the few that were, were really elitest jerks. So, i have a great appreciation for a compassionate, intelligent guy. unfortunately, i have yet to really meet one around here... most seem to be too quiet and shy, so its hard to get to know them, or really even notice them. But i look... I've met one or two... but they alway have girlfriends! I'm so unlucky...

 

[Moonbear]

But i look... I've met one or two... but they alway have girlfriends! I'm so unlucky...

Yeah, they can't be having that hard of a time finding girlfriends, because that's too often my experience too, that when I find them, they already have girlfriends, or wives, or live an ocean away, or...well, you get the point.

 

[Gale]

Yeah, they can't be having that hard of a time finding girlfriends, because that's too often my experience too, that when I find them, they already have girlfriends, or wives, or live an ocean away, or...well, you get the point.

i hear you, sister. reminds me of that joke: men are like parking spaces, all the good ones are either taken, too small, or handicapped. Honestly, we have just as hard of a time finding guys too.

 

[SOS2008]

i hear you, sister. reminds me of that joke: men are like parking spaces, all the good ones are either taken, too small, or handicapped. Honestly, we have just as hard of a time finding guys too.

That joke always makes me laugh!

In all fairness to the guys, I think there may be some confusion with what is being said. I do need to be physically attracted to the man to be interested in him on an intimate level. That being said, it doesn't necessarily mean the stereotype of "tall, dark, and handsome." My taste is completely different from my sister's, and most of my friends, thank goodness -- Who wants to get hit with friendly fire! For me I prefer a man who is taller and bigger than I am (so I can wear heels--that's not asking too much as I'm about 5'3", and so I know I can't take him in a wrestling match), I prefer him to be physically fit (maybe for the same reason, and so he can carry me out of the house if it catches on fire), a kind face...and no growths or strange rashes.

Also, in reading some of the recent posts, it made me think of "When Harry Met Sally" and Billy Crystal says there is no such thing as a plutonic relationship for men, because men naturally think about what sex would be like with their female friends. Herein lies a BIG difference. Obviously I will be aware if a male friend/acquaintance is good-looking, but sex doesn't even cross my mind. Of course, I'm also incredibly monogamous by nature. (And I may be rambling into the hi-jack zone just about now...and not because I was thinking about sex! )

 

[Moonbear]

Who wants to get hit with friendly fire!

LOL! I love that expression!

For me I prefer a man who is taller and bigger than I am (so I can wear heels--that's not asking too much as I'm about 5'3",

It's even easier for me, I'm only 5'2", so any guy 5'4" and up is tall enough for me. I'm not used to being taller than anyone, so I will admit a guy shorter than me would feel odd for me to stand next to.

and so I know I can't take him in a wrestling match),

Well, I do want to be able to take a guy in a wrestling match, but I might be thinking something rather different than you are here.

I prefer him to be physically fit (maybe for the same reason, and so he can carry me out of the house if it catches on fire), a kind face...and no growths or strange rashes.

Scars are okay with me though. Warm eyes are good too. In terms of physical fitness, a guy who can keep up with me is good enough. I wouldn't mind if he has nice biceps to squeeze, but it's not required.

(And I may be rambling into the hi-jack zone just about now...and not because I was thinking about sex! )

Oh, you mean this isn't the sex thread?

But, it remains that all those things are secondary to finding someone who is intelligent with a compatible personality (and that will vary from woman to woman as to how she defines compatible).

 

[SOS2008]

Well, I do want to be able to take a guy in a wrestling match, but I might be thinking something rather different than you are here. ).

Okay, I've been in a few myself...So how many have you won?

Scars are okay with me though.

So you like the "bad boy" look? Funny you should say that. The guy I've been dating has scars--busted again!

After I wrote my last post, I remembered I don't like hairy backs, and well, on down. But you know, this is easily remedied and no less pain for the gain then what women go through.

I wouldn't mind if he has nice biceps to squeeze...

Good squeeze is good.

Oh, you mean this isn't the sex thread?

Yeh, I haven't even gotten to the sex thread yet. In the male/female thread we have suggested consolidating these. We need a title though...

 

[Moonbear]

Okay, I've been in a few myself...So how many have you won?

You know, they always seem more than willing to let me win.

After I wrote my last post, I remembered I don't like hairy backs, and well, on down.

I used to think that was a big deal when I was younger, you know, thinking all that hair was pretty bad looking, but then when I met that guy I dated for a long time, he was downright furry, and it never bothered me a bit...on him, I thought it was so sexy, because I was madly in love with him long before we took the relationship to a physical level. That's how I'm sure that looks don't turn out to be all that important once you get to know someone well enough. Of course now I also know that ex-girlfriends need to be LONG gone before I'll date a guy...I don't want any more issues of falling that far in love with someone only to have him run off with the ex.

Afterall, we all grow old and gravity takes its toll eventually, so you have to love someone enough that you'll still want to be with them even when they're old, gray, bald, toothless, wrinkled and sagging, etc.

 

[JasonRox]

The funny part about biceps, is that it does not require much effort to get good looking arms.

Most guys look at it like it takes a million years of hard work.

I say 3 months at the gym doing some exercises 3 times a week will make you more firm.

Note: 3 months will go by FAST.

 

[Gale]

Afterall, we all grow old and gravity takes its toll eventually, so you have to love someone enough that you'll still want to be with them even when they're old, gray, bald, toothless, wrinkled and sagging, etc.

oh gee moonbear... you make love sound so sexy and attractive... maybe i oughtn't like older guys so much... mmmm sagging wrinkles

 

[Gale]

oooook, so i just noticed after i posted that when you put next to it looks a bit like my smilies are attempting some weird french kissing... oooh ya... sexxxxy

 

[Moonbear]

oooook, so i just noticed after i posted that when you put next to it looks a bit like my smilies are attempting some weird french kissing... oooh ya... sexxxxy

Oh, eeeewwwww! Not to french kissing in general, but to the way those two smilies are doing it! I think they need some sex advice too!

 

[JasonRox]

Did you ever try kissing with your eyes open?

I ought to try.

 

[Gale]

Did you ever try kissing with your eyes open?

I ought to try.

hahaha, you know, its funny. when i first learned how to kiss, i thought it'd be really interesting to watch it while doing it. It totally freaked my boyfriend out once when he happened to open his eyes, cause i was like staring down my nose... i must've look sooooo funny... no wonder that relationship didn't last long... sigh

 

[Moonbear]

The funny part about biceps, is that it does not require much effort to get good looking arms.

Most guys look at it like it takes a million years of hard work.

I say 3 months at the gym doing some exercises 3 times a week will make you more firm.

Note: 3 months will go by FAST.

Or he can help me drag bags of mulch around the yard all day, and that should help too (yeah, I'm sitting here staring at the order form trying to decide if I really need to do mulch again this year, I can still remember the pain of not moving my arms for a few days last time, when I got a full pallet of 60 bags; maybe a half pallet to touch up the flower beds this year). Then there are fence post holes to be dug (a few sections of the fence finally fell down this winter, so no more procrastinating on that job). I can find more than enough ways for a guy to work out without having to waste time in a gym.

It's inevitable, if he doesn't start out in shape with me, he will be soon enough. I've never yet met a guy who could stand watching a woman lifting more than he could; they all seem willing to kill themselves just to lift more than me. Meh, I'm a bit out of shape now myself, so I'll go easier on them. When I move to a new job and can get back to my daily sheep-lifting routine, I'll be in much better shape again.

 

[JasonRox]

hahaha, you know, its funny. when i first learned how to kiss, i thought it'd be really interesting to watch it while doing it. It totally freaked my boyfriend out once when he happened to open his eyes, cause i was like staring down my nose... i must've look sooooo funny... no wonder that relationship didn't last long... sigh

I'm going to tell my gf that I will do it. I won't tell her when though.