Why Did a PETA Staffer Change His Name to KentuckyFriedCruelty.com?

[Cyrus]

NOPE! Its no eating animals or your a MURDERER! like i said, crackpots.

 

[Jelfish]

Yep, that is justice. He had a court hearing. He was found guilty of killing a family, he showed no remorse, and so he was punished to death. That is what's called justice, as opposed to what you want, which is revenge. And what I brought up is exactly PETA's philosophy and is on topic.

Yes, but such a process to arrive at justice exists. How is it not reasonable for a PETA member to be angry because of what he/she feels is 'injustice' due to lack of process?

 

[Jelfish]

Question: Is PETA Pro-Choice?

That would be a non-issue if the person believed that life started after birth or viability.

 

[tribdog]

That would be a non-issue if the person believed that life started after birth or viability.

is that even an answer?
Okay I got a fourth time you can be cruel to animals

4. They answer your questions with odd psuedo intelligent replies. ie see above.

 

[Jelfish]

NOPE! Its no eating animals or your a MURDERER! like i said, crackpots.

Out of curiousity, would you feel that PETA would be reasonable in campaigning against an animal form of manslaughter instead of murder? Most people don't think about killing when they buy a steak from the supermarket anyway.

 

[SpaceTiger]

If they have a problem with it fine, I understand. But there is a right way, and a wrong way to do things.

"Right" and "wrong" in what sense? The ethical sense? The pragmatic sense? If it's the former, what are you basing your judgement on? If it's just the latter, then I agree, but that's beside the point. The point is to question why we view many of their methods as an ethical atrocity. That pamphlet isn't telling you to go out and kill people, is it? What makes the authors "crackpots"? Why is it crazy to change your name in protest of something you view as mass torture and/or murder?

It's easy to be dogmatic and say something just is or isn't the case, but it isn't really an argument. In fact, it more resembles propaganda and I can't honestly say I'm persuaded by your insistence that I have such a narrow view of PETA. I'm not a vegetarian, I do eat at fast food restuarants (including KFC), I do occasionally fish, and I do think it's wrong to kill people to save a few animals. I also think, however, that many of these PETA folks have a role to play and are, in some ways, worthy of respect. They fight for something that they believe in and they're working from an ethical system not all that much unlike my own. We shouldn't be using this thread to cast stones, we should be using it to explore the alternatives. Try to see things from the "crazy" person's point of view, you might find it enlightening.

 

[Jelfish]

is that even an answer?
Okay I got a fourth time you can be cruel to animals
4. They answer your questions with odd psuedo intelligent replies. ie see above.

Well, I don't know if they are pro-choice or not as an organization. But say they were pro-choice. What conclusion would you draw on their philosophy about animal rights?

 

[KingNothing]

Everyone hates peta. (perhaps even jesus)

 

[SpaceTiger]

Question: Is PETA Pro-Choice?

Why would they all have to be one or the other?

 

[tribdog]

I don't draw conclusions. I wait for you guys to tell me what to think. that's why I hate it when you don't answer my questions. Thanks for clarifying your comment for me though

 

[tribdog]

Why would they all have to be one or the other?

I didn't say they HAD to be. I was just wondering. I'm sure it gets boring out there chasing down whaling ships, 30 or 40 hippies in a boat, you know there is some "Wanna join the 4 fathom club" If any PETITES are concieved can the Momma PETA get an abortion without being ostricized by fellow PETAs?

 

[SpaceTiger]

I didn't say they HAD to be. I was just wondering.

According to this article, they're neither:

http://www.fightpp.org/show.cfm?page=press&action=display&ID=11"

I didn't feel like searching their website, so I suppose that could have changed since 2001.

 

[Jelfish]

I have a friend who is a strong animal rights activist and PETA member (he doesn't firebomb) and he is pro-choice, so I would say that there would be PETA members who would support her choice.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Why is it ridiculous? That's what my post is about.

It's not ridiculous. The peta people make it look ridiculous. The two examples cited, the kid who legally changed his name, and the comic book, ought to make that clear. If you don't find those two things ridiculous, then, of course, saying that Peta makes concern for animals look ridiculous won't mean anything to you.

 

[Bladibla]

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=grill

http://web.archive.org/web/20041107084521/http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html

 

[SpaceTiger]

It's not ridiculous. The peta people make it look ridiculous. The two examples cited, the kid who legally changed his name, and the comic book, ought to make that clear. If you don't find those two things ridiculous, then, of course, saying that Peta makes concern for animals look ridiculous won't mean anything to you.

See here:

"Right" and "wrong" in what sense? The ethical sense? The pragmatic sense? If it's the former, what are you basing your judgement on? If it's just the latter, then I agree, but that's beside the point.

You're speaking from a pragmatic point of view and I'm in agreement with you. However, I'm trying to get people to look beyond that. Perhaps you already have. If so, then my post wasn't directed at you.

 

[Jelfish]

Sure it might seem ridiculous, but it's due in part to the fact that PETA's philosophy seems ridiculous. For example, if some passionate teenager changed his/her name to FightAids, would it seem as ridiculous? If so, well, then perhaps the ridiculousness stems from changing the name, not the organization behind it. And maybe that can be attributed to over zealousness of some teenagers.

 

[Jelfish]

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=grill
http://web.archive.org/web/20041107084521/http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html

Ok Maddox is occassionally humorous - I'll give you that. But there are also a lot of people who belligerently assume that vegetarians aim to emit guilt-rays at them because they are not vegetarians, when in fact there are non-ethical reasons to be a vegetarian.

The second article brings up some good points about vegan morality. I, personally, would never be a vegetarian/vegan for moral reasons.

 

[zoobyshoe]

See here:
You're speaking from a pragmatic point of view and I'm in agreement with you. However, I'm trying to get people to look beyond that. Perhaps you already have. If so, then my post wasn't directed at you.

I'm not sure what you want people to look beyond it to. Objecting to their counter-productive tactics demonstrates a concern for the issue.

 

[SpaceTiger]

I'm not sure what you want people to look beyond it to. Objecting to their counter-productive tactics demonstrates a concern for the issue.

So you honestly think everyone who views this thread just objects to their tactics and not their philosophy? Do you think it's wrong to go fishing?

 

[Jelfish]

Hey, it's free advertisment.

 

[Bladibla]

Ok Maddox is occassionally humorous - I'll give you that. But there are also a lot of people who belligerently assume that vegetarians aim to emit guilt-rays at them because they are not vegetarians, when in fact there are non-ethical reasons to be a vegetarian.
The second article brings up some good points about vegan morality. I, personally, would never be a vegetarian/vegan for moral reasons.

But your missing the point. The point of this thread was to discuss about the moral validity of PETA, who most definately fits the former of your 2 examples. Whether there *are* non-ethical veggies is irrelevant.

 

[Jelfish]

But your missing the point. The point of this thread was to discuss about the moral validity of PETA, who most definately fits the former of your 2 examples. Whether there *are* non-ethical veggies is irrelevant.

PETA isn't only about veganism. It's also about factory farming conditions and using animals for testing.

And also despite the fact that a vegan diet isn't "blood-free," the argument of intention isn't completely invalid, in my opinion. For example, construction workers have died from falling off skyscrappers. Does that necessarily mean that skyscrapper construction should be catagorized under the same ethics as say, breeding a human for the purpose of collecting his/her organs? I think a PETA member might think the same way about animals and wheat farming.

 

[zoobyshoe]

So you honestly think everyone who views this thread just objects to their tactics and not their philosophy?

I think most disagree with both. The tactics are the particular thing the thread is concentrating on.

Do you think it's wrong to go fishing?

I don't personally, if you're going to eat the fish, and there's no gratuitous pain to the fish involved. I don't fish myself, though, mostly because I'm too squeamish about killing them. I don't kill much of anything if it can be helped. I put out ant poison when the place gets invaded by them, but only because I don't know of any other way to get rid of them. If a spider is bothering me, I'll catch it in a jar and release it outside. Same with mice: I have one of those "humane" mouse traps, and I take the mice I catch out to a canyon and let them go.

I don't think a philosophy of not eating any animals at all makes PETA seem foolish. It's their methods of spreading that message that makes them look ridiculous.

 

[Bladibla]

PETA isn't only about veganism. It's also about factory farming conditions and using animals for testing.
And also despite the fact that a vegan diet isn't "blood-free," the argument of intention isn't completely invalid, in my opinion. For example, construction workers have died from falling off skyscrappers. Does that necessarily mean that skyscrapper construction should be catagorized under the same ethics as say, breeding a human for the purpose of collecting his/her organs? I think a PETA member might think the same way about animals and wheat farming.

But bear in mind that Construction workers don't have a moral crisis with their workers falling from skyscrapers. They accept that accidents *DO* happen even though they try to achieve maximum safety levels for their workers.

PETA on the other hand, actively 'care' about animals being slaughtered, and whatever they announce about their ethical policies. However, I don't understand their insistence (in this case, vegan diet) even though it has been suggested (from a respectable source) and maybe even *proven* that it does not contribute to animal rights pragmatically *and* ethically!

 

[SpaceTiger]

The tactics are the particular thing the thread is concentrating on.

Says you? Personally, I think the ethical points are much more interesting and entirely relevant to the original post. What drives someone to change their name to KentuckyFriedCruelty.com?

I don't personally, if you're going to eat the fish, and there's no gratuitous pain to the fish involved. I don't fish myself, though, mostly because I'm too squeamish about killing them.

Same here. I feel awful watching them suffer and, to be honest, most of my actions toward animals are based on those feelings. Perhaps this is just rationalizing, but my ethical standpoint is something along the lines of "most good for the most creatures". The less aware a creature is of their suffering, the less "bad" I think it does them. There are a lot of caveats to the above, but I'd really like to hear what other folks think about it.

 

[Math Is Hard]

This is the sort of propaganda that really irritates me. This is from the back of the PETA comic book:

Until your daddy learns that it's not fun to kill
Keep your doggies and kitties away from him
He's so hooked on killing defenseless animals
That they could be next.

PETA has gone nuts!

 

[zoobyshoe]

Says you? Personally, I think the ethical points are much more interesting and entirely relevant to the original post. What drives someone to change their name to KentuckyFriedCruelty.com?

I'm assuming there's no "what" at work here, meaning it really isn't the issue that "drove" the name change. I don't think we're dealing with a level-headed individual who changed to an extremist because of the particular cause. I think PETA is probably attracting people already predisposed to being overwrought. There may well be a lot of people who don't eat meat for humane considerations who don't want to be associated with PETA.

 

[Jelfish]

But bear in mind that Construction workers don't have a moral crisis with their workers falling from skyscrapers. They accept that accidents *DO* happen even though they try to achieve maximum safety levels for their workers.
PETA on the other hand, actively 'care' about animals being slaughtered, and whatever they announce about their ethical policies. However, I don't understand their insistence (in this case, vegan diet) even though it has been suggested (from a respectable source) and maybe even *proven* that it does not contribute to animal rights pragmatically *and* ethically!

The lesser of two evils perhaps?

 

[zoobyshoe]

This is the sort of propaganda that really irritates me. This is from the back of the PETA comic book:
PETA has gone nuts!

Yeah, this makes them look really bad.

 

[Jelfish]

I'm assuming there's no "what" at work here, meaning it really isn't the issue that "drove" the name change. I don't think we're dealing with a level-headed individual who changed to an extremist because of the particular cause. I think PETA is probably attracting people already predisposed to being overwrought. There may well be a lot of people who don't eat meat for humane considerations who don't want to be associated with PETA.

Couldn't someone not associate with PETA and still agree with PETA's view on KFC? I mean, there could be some substance to this KFC issue, no? Or have you decided that it's nothing more than extreme PETA propaganda? And if not, then maybe there is a valid driving force.

 

[franznietzsche]

Agreed.
And this bit is extraneous and expressly done for the purpose of lengthening my otherwise overly short post to meet the stringent inflexible requirements of the post length Nazi.

I've discovered that you can just add a number of spaces between the word and the period. It defeats the post length Nazi.

 

[Bladibla]

The lesser of two evils perhaps?

why?

'I don't understand their insistence (in this case, vegan diet) even though it has been suggested (from a respectable source) and maybe even *proven* that it does not contribute to animal rights pragmatically *and* ethically!'

 

[SpaceTiger]

I'm assuming there's no "what" at work here, meaning it really isn't the issue that "drove" the name change. I don't think we're dealing with a level-headed individual who changed to an extremist because of the particular cause. I think PETA is probably attracting people already predisposed to being overwrought.

I think it's easy to dismiss people who think very differently from us as just being overwrought or crazy, but I've definitely known sane people who would do outlandish things to make a point. I find it very hard to believe that their motivations are as simple as you're saying.

 

[Jelfish]

why?

'I don't understand their insistence (in this case, vegan diet) even though it has been suggested (from a respectable source) and maybe even *proven* that it does not contribute to animal rights pragmatically *and* ethically!'

Your bolded statement doesn't imply that a nonvegan diet contributes more to animal rights, however. That's what I meant by "lesser of two evils." If it came down to cutting one's losses, I would imagine that an animal rights activist would choose to not promote factory farming and things like beak clipping as one might imply by being a meat eater.