Japan Earthquake: Nuclear Plants at Fukushima Daiichi

In summary: RCIC consists of a series of pumps, valves, and manifolds that allow coolant to be circulated around the reactor pressure vessel in the event of a loss of the main feedwater supply.In summary, the earthquake and tsunami may have caused a loss of coolant at the Fukushima Daiichi NPP, which could lead to a meltdown. The system for cooling the reactor core is designed to kick in in the event of a loss of feedwater, and fortunately this appears not to have happened yet.
  • #2,661
Taxidermista said:
Sources, please?

One of the replies here referred to a report of known hot spots in unit 4 captured via IR but no pics. Classified, need to know basis, top secret, incriminating, akin to yelling fire in a movie theater? I don't know. I would think military sats. are watching these events in real time 3D modeling with readouts. Contaminating drones during fly overs are just an exercise as the radioactivity must be high.
 
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  • #2,662
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  • #2,663
Can anyone explain what is the object labeled (2) in the following image (from the Air Photo services series)? From theway roof girders are bent, it seems to have fallen onto the roof (rather than lifted from below).
[PLAIN]http://www.ic.unicamp.br/~stolfi/EXPORT/projects/fukushima/blast/pics/pict12-e.jpg
 
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  • #2,664
tsutsuji said:
In the first minute and 40 second timeframe of his video at http://vimeo.com/21881702 Gundersen cites Ferenc Dalnoki-Veress and Arjun Makhijani, What Caused the High Cl-38 Radioactivity in the Fukushima Daiichi Reactor #1?, The Asia-Pacific Journal Vol 9, Issue 14 No 3, April 4, 2011 available at http://www.japanfocus.org/-Arjun-Makhijani/3509

the comments http://lewis.armscontrolwonk.com/archive/3822/localized-criticalities-at-fukushima" convinced me, that the cl-38 value is rather a wrong interpretation of data, than evidence for recriticality. tepco has never revoked the data though...
 
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  • #2,665
razzz said:
One of the replies here referred to a report of known hot spots in unit 4 captured via IR but no pics. Classified, need to know basis, top secret, incriminating, akin to yelling fire in a movie theater? I don't know. I would think military sats. are watching these events in real time 3D modeling with readouts. Contaminating drones during fly overs are just an exercise as the radioactivity must be high.

The latest infrared photography of the reactors, taken by Japanese Self Defense Forces' helicopter is available at http://www.mod.go.jp/j/approach/defense/saigai/tohokuoki/kanren/230403.pdf
 
  • #2,666
PietKuip said:
What are your own credentials?

Your hypothetical recent ruptures would also be worrying.

But Gunderson's point is based on the iodine/cesium ratio. The iodine in the fuel rods is supposed to have decayed for almost three halflives now, a factor 8. And new ruptures would also release cesium. The ratio would probably be influenced by temperature, but I have no idea by how much. Do you?
Greg and the staff have my CV. I have an MS in nuclear engineering, and I am published. Most of my work is proprietary.

My only agenda is to get to the truth of the matter at hand.

If there were criticality events, the inventory associated with MW-s/MTU are quite small relative to the existing inventory.

There are numerous short-lived isotopes I'd like to see.
 
  • #2,667
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  • #2,668
"Tellurium 129 Presence Is Proof Of Inadvertent Recriticality At Fukushima"

That's the latest claim from Gunderson, via http://www.zerohedge.com/article/tellurium-129-presence-proof-inadvertent-recriticality-fukushima"

It has a 70 minute half life. Data collected 30.03.11

http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/11033110-e.html
 
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  • #2,669
tsutsuji said:
The latest infrared photography of the reactors, taken by Japanese Self Defense Forces' helicopter is available at http://www.mod.go.jp/j/approach/defense/saigai/tohokuoki/kanren/230403.pdf

I'm glad you found some current readings. Unit 3 still acting up.
 
  • #2,672
A Tepco executive said yesterday he isn’t optimistic about the prospect of containing damage at the Fukushima Dai-Ichi nuclear power plant’s No. 3 reactor.

“I don’t know if we can ever enter the No. 3 reactor building again,” Hikaru Kuroda, the company’s chief of nuclear facility management, said at a press conference.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-04-03/tokyo-electric-sawdust-solution-fails-to-stop-radiation-leak.html

Where are the shielded robots?
 
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  • #2,674
Bodge said:
A Tepco executive said yesterday he isn’t optimistic about the prospect of containing damage at the Fukushima Dai-Ichi nuclear power plant’s No. 3 reactor.

“I don’t know if we can ever enter the No. 3 reactor building again,” Hikaru Kuroda, the company’s chief of nuclear facility management, said at a press conference.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-04-03/tokyo-electric-sawdust-solution-fails-to-stop-radiation-leak.html

Where are the shielded robots?
To much structural damage for small shielded robots . They would need heavy lifting equipment just to get in but radiation is so high I don't think they will attempt that anytime soon .
 
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  • #2,675
It seems that several people have looked at the damage in #4 and (like me) concluded that it was all due to the blast of #3. BUT then we got that satellite pic showing #3 busted and #4 intact.

I see two tiny straws that we might still cling to. (1) The satellite photo is a mosaic of two photos taken 24 or 48 hours apart, the top half being older. (The shadows match but recon satellite orbits are chosen to pass over each spot at the same time of day.) (2) There were two explosions in #3, the second one highly directed towards #4.

(Sorry if this topic has come up before. I am new to this forum; been reading through its 2500+ messages, but in six straight hours I only got from march 11 to march 26...)
 
  • #2,676
Jorge Stolfi said:
It seems that several people have looked at the damage in #4 and (like me) concluded that it was all due to the blast of #3. BUT then we got that satellite pic showing #3 busted and #4 intact.

I see two tiny straws that we might still cling to. (1) The satellite photo is a mosaic of two photos taken 24 or 48 hours apart, the top half being older. (The shadows match but recon satellite orbits are chosen to pass over each spot at the same time of day.) (2) There were two explosions in #3, the second one highly directed towards #4.

(Sorry if this topic has come up before. I am new to this forum; been reading through its 2500+ messages, but in six straight hours I only got from march 11 to march 26...)

Unit 4 was intact after explosion at Unit 3 . There are other photos that show it . There was a huge explosion at Unit 4 but no video has surfaced showing it .
 
  • #2,677
Thanks for the graphs Jorge,

people in general I don't know as this has been asked before, but should we draw much significance from the fact that the readings for drywell radiation has been creeping upwards for about half a week in reactor one? would it not be reasonable to expect that reading to be gradually decaying as it is in all the othere radiation readings?
 
  • #2,678
Is it even possible to build a robot that can work in the sort of radiation levels inside the buildings?
 
  • #2,679
Jorge Stolfi said:
Can anyone explain what is the object labeled (2) in the following image (from the Air Photo services series)? From theway roof girders are bent, it seems to have fallen onto the roof (rather than lifted from below).
[PLAIN]http://www.ic.unicamp.br/~stolfi/EXPORT/projects/fukushima/blast/pics/pict12-e.jpg[/QUOTE]
Its part of the roof of Unit 4 that fell back down after explosion . There is part of a concrete wall in this area that was part of a smaller spent fuel pool that cracked apart also . If I have the layout right.
 
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  • #2,680
Bodge said:
"Tellurium 129 Presence Is Proof Of Inadvertent Recriticality At Fukushima"

That's the latest claim from Gunderson, via http://www.zerohedge.com/article/tellurium-129-presence-proof-inadvertent-recriticality-fukushima"

It has a 70 minute half life. Data collected 30.03.11

http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/11033110-e.html

Can anybody clear this up for me?
 
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  • #2,681
robinson said:
Is it even possible to build a robot that can work in the sort of radiation levels inside the buildings?

When we hear a powerful executive for the utility put all his hope into a giant robot program to fix this disaster, it's like us folks out here in the States resorting to a more spiritual solution. Perhaps a "Hail Mary". If only we had a giant robot that could lift this whole nightmare from the coast of Japan a carry it to the sun.( or at least the moon). hbjon
 
  • #2,682
Long-Time Lurker in this thread, thank you all for the excellent education.

I have a question. According to TEPCO:
CV of units 1&3 are reported "not damaged." CV of unit 2 is reported as "Damage & Leakage Suspected."

RPV damage for units 1,2&3 are listed as "unknown."

If the CV of unit 3 was intact, wouldn't the pressure levels read closer to those of level 1 rather than at or near atmospheric?

Same question for the RPV's. Both 2&3 are near atmospheric pressure while Unit 1 rises and falls slightly with water input.

Thank you.

Information from here & here:
http://www.jaif.or.jp/english/index.php"
http://www.ic.unicamp.br/~stolfi/EXPORT/projects/fukushima/plots/v8/Main.html"
 
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  • #2,683
If they TEPCO folks want to determine where the water is coming from (ie. leaking SFP's). They need to inject a dye into the water. I'm sure a dye material can be found that won't cause further issues.

Start by injecting the dye into the fuel pools.. If the water leaking into the ocean changes color you have your fluid path.. This would also show up in the turbine buildings / trench if the leaking pools are the source of that contamination.
 
  • #2,684
Test-spraying of a resin solution over debris and the ground to seal in radioactive substances that might otherwise spread further into the environment has begun at Tokyo Electric Power Co.'s Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant.

In the Nos. 1 to 3 reactors, preparations progressed to use an external power supply to activate electric pumps to inject coolant water into the reactors.

A sprinkler vehicle sprayed about 2,000 liters of the resin solution over an area of about 500 square meters west of the No. 4 reactor.

TEPCO planned to spray a total of 60,000 liters of the solution within two weeks.

Power supply resumed to devices to monitor radiation levels in eight locations on the boundaries of the plant's premises. TEPCO planned to resume operation of the devices Saturday after confirming they still worked properly. Why are so many of the workers dealing with this wearing what looks like paper masks ? There is radioactive dust covering everything but they send these guys out in paper masks . The navy crew of the tug boat that delivered the fresh water for the reactors where in full body suits with full face gas masks . I feel this will be one of the things that everyone looks back on and questions why they allowed them to go into this environment with so little protection .
 
  • #2,685
Cire said:
If they TEPCO folks want to determine where the water is coming from (ie. leaking SFP's). They need to inject a dye into the water. I'm sure a dye material can be found that won't cause further issues.

Start by injecting the dye into the fuel pools.. If the water leaking into the ocean changes color you have your fluid path.. This would also show up in the turbine buildings / trench if the leaking pools are the source of that contamination.
I read a report last night that said water was leaking from Unit 2 containment vessel and they where pumping water into keep replacing it . IT said that this was why the water in the trench was so high in radiation . Spent fuel pools also have cracks that are leaking .
 
  • #2,686
Jorge Stolfi said:
I have plotted the data from the NISA/METI press relases:

http://www.ic.unicamp.br/~stolfi/EXPORT/projects/fukushima/plots/cur/Main.html

Hope it helps. All the best, --stolfi

Looking at your plots and comparing them to the prefecture radiation levels:

http://public.tableausoftware.com/views/JapanRadiationLevels/JapanRadiationLevelsDashboard"

it seems likely that reactor #2 breached on the 16th and #3 on the 20th. I believe its only #1 that maintains above atmospheric pressure now.
 
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  • #2,687
|Fred said:
where did you get this picture ?

# 4 reactor spent fuel pool Feb 1 2005.jpg

edit: got it
http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/national/archive/news/2011/03/16/20110316p2g00m0dm034000c.html

edit2: did they repaint the top crane in green ?

Fred:
I believe if you look carefully, the only green crane in the picture is the fuel handling machine. Reference the things that look like the davits for a life boat on the left hand side. That, plus the whole photo has a green cast.

https://www.physicsforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=33968&d=1301856201

Are you seeing a picture of a green overhead crane I have overlooked? If so can you reference the photo? Thanks.
 
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  • #2,688
Bodge said:
Can anybody clear this up for me?

TEPCO (I believe) stated that the Te-129 reading from 30/3 was erroneous.

(by "I believe" I mean I know they said this but am unable to track down the actual statement ATM; they've admitted to 2 errors in data: 25/3 I-134 and 30/3 Te-129)
 
  • #2,689
Astronuc said:
<I know there is a concern about criticality in the SFP and core. I would expect that TEPCO personnel have added borated water to core and SFP precisely to prevent recriticality.>

Would more boron be better to moderate or slow reactions? Or is there some ideal mix with water such as they are injecting?
 
  • #2,690
For reference, Wikipedia has a decent time lines and overall information combined together.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushima_I_nuclear_accidents"

[URL]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a1/Bwr-rpv.svg[/URL]
 
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  • #2,691
So the I-134,Tellurium, lanthanum products and chlorine-38 readings are all wrong?

I don't believe it,but if true its very disturbing in its self.

What exactly is going on?

At least Gundersen is making a statement based on what information he has and standing by it,bias or no bias.
 
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  • #2,692
NEW THERMAL IMAGE ANALYSIS, UNIT 4

Thanks for the new images, tsutsuji @ post # 2680

https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=3227707&postcount=2680

Here are new thermal images (at least to me) of Bldg. 4. I presume the "hot" area to the right of the SFP is the open core of the reactor with residual radioactivity, and I hope this is normal.

Without,

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn270/tcups/Picture41.png

and with my annotations.

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn270/tcups/Picture42.png

ADDENDUM:
Correction of initial error of interpretation on my part - the "ground activity is not from heat sources on the ground. There is a perspective error. The heat sources labeled "ground activity are from lower levels of the building. Also, remember, these images are in the IR spectrum, presumably, not the X-ray or gamma ray spectrum.
 
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  • #2,693
return of the giant cloth

Gov't eyes use of huge sheet to contain radioactive substances
TOKYO, April 4, Kyodo

The government has asked Tokyo Electric Power Co., operator of the crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant, to study the possibility of containing radioactive substances from four damaged reactors by wrapping their entire containment buildings with a huge amount of sheeting, government sources said Sunday.

The proposal calls for building framed structures around the 45-meter-high containment buildings and then wrapping them with the sheeting, the sources said.

If all of the four buildings were wrapped in this manner, it would cost about 80 billion yen and take up to two months, the sources said.

But atomic energy experts are skeptical about the feasibility of the plan, proposed by a general construction firm, saying the step would have only limited effects in blocking the release of radioactive substances into the environment.

Osaka University professor emeritus Keiji Miyazaki said that there is the risk that such sheeting would be torn apart by heat emanating from nuclear reactors. ''What must be done speedily is rather the restoration of the reactors' cooling functions,'' said the professor of atomic energy engineering.

Ritsumeikan University professor emeritus Ikuro Anzai said if sheeting-based containment were technically possible, it would help block the release of radioactive substances into the atmosphere and the ground.

But the professor, who specializes in ways to protect humans from radiation exposure, added that there is the risk that radiation levels would go up inside the sheeting, thus hampering various restoration work, including the work to spray water onto the reactors.

A source close to the government criticized its latest move, saying, ''Politicians and the TEPCO management adopted the proposal from the major construction company which does not have deep knowledge about nuclear power plants.''

''This step is essentially lip service to give the public a sense of ease by hiding the image of the decrepit nuclear plant,'' the source said.

http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/04/82921.html
 
  • #2,694
NEW ANALYSIS OF THERMAL (IR) IMAGES, BLDG 3

Again, before annotation:

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn270/tcups/Picture44.png

and after annotation:

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn270/tcups/Picture45.png

Seems to confirm that the FHM is not over the SFP3; however, the rod-like structures seen at the alleged crash site of the ballistic FHM are not "hot" on this image.

Thanks again to tsustuji @Post # 2680 for the IR images provided
https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=3227707&postcount=2680
 
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  • #2,695
Re the damage of #4 and the piece of debris stuck into the roof:

Its part of the roof of Unit 4 that fell back down after explosion .​

Thanks, it makes sense. Presumably the roof was a concrete or tarmac sheet laid on top of the metal framework, that was lifted off by the explosion without damaging the latter.

But now that the "shot by reactor #3" theory is busted, I am left wondering at puzzling features of the damage on #4:

  1. The concrete walls of the upper floor, on the West and East sides, seem to have been pushed INWARDS against the concrete columns.
  2. The same concrete shell on the North side (facing #3) was peeled off the concrete columns but kept hanging from the top.
  3. The top edge of the North wall was bent INWARDS, whike the first horizontal concrete beam just below it was bent outwards.
  4. While that beam was damaged, the much weaker outre shell remained mostly in place.

Could go on, buy you get the idea.

Perhaps there was an explosion BELOW the topmost floor, and that created overpressure on the OUTSIDE of the walls of the top floor, pushing them in?
 

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