Physics BS - is it even worth it?

[WannabeNewton]

Hi guys! I had a recent talk with my friend about my college debt / tuition and future job prospects as a means of paying off that debt and he voiced his concerns about my future financial state, concerns which hit me square in the face and brought me back down to reality - now I just can't stop worrying. My parents pay quite a sum of money per year for me to attend my current university and (hopefully) attain a bachelors in physics. Unfortunately, I also have a brother and they have to pay for his college education too so I will have to take on the debt that they will have accumulated for my education simply because it would be wrong to put the burden on them. The amount of money that will have been given to the university by my senior year (so 3 years from now) will have been about 120 grand.

This is certainly a heft sum of money to pay not to mention there is interest which will have accumulated on top of this. I will have to have a decent job in order to actually pay this off in a reasonable amount of time (I don't play on letting my parents pay most if any of it - I want them to focus on my brother's education). That being said, the main question I wish to ask is: how good a job, in the best case scenario, can you actually get with a BS in physics? By how good I simply mean in terms of salary. There don't seem to be much if any financially lucrative job prospects for a person with only a BS in physics and this worries me greatly.

I should note that I don't plan on getting married or having kids at any point in life so I will not have the gigantic financial burden that comes with marriage and kids. I am also asking specifically about the financial prospects of a physics BS and not a PhD because I want to be as realistic as possible; getting a PhD in physics is no joke for anyone and the chances of me failing are much greater than the chances of me succeeding statistically speaking. As such, I want to be as prepared as possible with just a BS in physics. Do you think it is possible, in regular circumstances (i.e. no lucky break with a miraculous job that is quite rare relative to the norm) to get an industry job with a physics BS that would allow, at the least, a ~120k base college tuition to be paid off in a reasonable amount of time (so that I won't be stuck with debt my entire life)?

I am asking now because I want to make these future decisions before its too late. I am going to enter sophomore year in august and if the job prospects are bleak then it would only serve me well to change my major to something more practical (e.g. electrical engineering, computer engineering, computer science, mechanical engineering etc.) so that I don't drown in a sea of debt that I can never claw myself out of as soon as I get out of college. Thanks in advance for the help, I honestly have no familiarity with job prospects for anything physics related and don't know where to turn. Thanks again!

 

[deluks917]

I think would a bad idea even if Physics jobs were incredibly plentiful.

Based on your other forum posts you are an extremely intellegent and studious person. If anyone should be getting a physics degree it is you. However I really think 120K is far too much debt. What if you decide later you want to go to grad school (Again you seem extremely strong so while this is a bad idea for many people it seems maybe good for you)? Or, like many of my friends from math/physics if you want to get involved with a start up? You really cannot do anything like that. You need to take a high paying job right out of school if you seriosuly want to pay off the 120K.

I am assuming you currently go to a strong school. Based on my impression of you there is a good chance you can transfer to a good but not great school on a scholarship. This would require more work and creativity on your part to get the same quality education. But I think it is worth it and it is defintiely possible. You should not be locking in your future at such an early age.

(my response of course assumes you are very serious about not putting the debt on your parents)

 

[AnTiFreeze3]

Just use the money that you save every year from not eating to pay off your college debt

 

[dx]

I am also asking specifically about the financial prospects of a physics BS and not a PhD because I want to be as realistic as possible; getting a PhD in physics is no joke for anyone and the chances of me failing are much greater than the chances of me succeeding statistically speaking. As such, I want to be as prepared as possible with just a BS in physics.

Failing what? Yes it is not guaranteed that you will get a permanent academic position at a university, but in my opinion you will have no problem getting a PhD, and with a PhD you can get well-paying jobs in industry and also non-science fields like finance.

 

[WannabeNewton]

I think would a bad idea even if Physics jobs were incredibly plentiful.

Based on your other forum posts you are an extremely intellegent and studious person. If anyone should be getting a physics degree it is you. However I really think 120K is far too much debt. What if you decide later you want to go to grad school (Again you seem extremely strong so while this is a bad idea for many people it seems maybe good for you)? Or, like many of my friends from math/physics if you want to get involved with a start up? You really cannot do anything like that. You need to take a high paying job right out of school if you seriosuly want to pay off the 120K.

This seems to be what many people have been telling me i.e. that the 120K debt is not worth it for a physics BS when there are other technical degrees one can get that will pay off the debt much faster and provide me with a comfortable life financially speaking.

I am assumign you currently go to a strong school. Based on my impression of you there is a good chance you can transfer to a good but not great school on a scholarship. This would require more work and creativity on your part to get the same quality education. But I tihnk it is worth it and it is defintiely possible. You should not be locking in your future at such an early age.

(my response of course assumes you are very seriosu about not putting the debt on your parents)

I currently attend Cornell university. I haven't looked into transferring to other schools that offer substantial scholarships as of yet (to be honest I haven't thought about my financial burdens at all - I knew I had to face them eventually but I was trying to focus on my physics education as much as possible; only recently did my long talk with my friend set me straight and bring my feet back down to earth) but if I do plan on changing majors to something more practical I certainly will not have any qualms against transferring to a university that offers me substantial money in scholarships. I am quite serious about taking the debt off my parents hands - they have done enough for me already.

 

[Astrum]

It's a very tricky situation for anybody.

I remember my physics teacher in high school giving us his life story about how/why he became a HS physics teacher.

Essentially, he told us that by the time he had finished his BS, he had too much debt to go to graduate school, so he took a high school position, and he's been there ever since (about 20 years, I reckon).

From what I've heard on PF, along with what people (physics grad students) have told me on other sites, there ARE jobs in physics, it's just that you need to be good enough for a PhD, and you need to be realistic (branches like cosmology, astrophysics, string theory seem to be the worst for jobs).

Experimental physics are apparently were the jobs are, only the top theoreticians actually find work doing theory.

Disclaimer: I'm not in the job market, so I can only relay what I've heard/read from others in the field.

 

[WannabeNewton]

Failing what? Yes it is not guaranteed that you will get a permanent academic position at a university, but in my opinion you will have no problem getting a PhD, and with a PhD you can get well-paying jobs in industry and also non-science fields like finance.

While I appreciate the sentiment, I just want to be as realistic as possible. Anything can happen that could prevent me from getting a PhD and nothing is set in stone, certainly not something as difficult as a physics PhD. As such, I just want to be as prepared as possible for the worst case scenario because I don't want to ruin my life because of that 120K+ sum. If changing to something like an electrical engineering major at Cornell will save my skin then I am not against it is what I'm saying but before I make major decisions I want to be as informed as possible on what I can get out of a physics BS in terms of money. I'm hoping there are people on the forum who have gotten their bachelors in physics and gone straight into the workforce who can tell me what their prospects were and what their luck handed to them.

 

[WannabeNewton]

I remember my physics teacher in high school giving us his life story about how/why he became a HS physics teacher.

Essentially, he told us that by the time he had finished his BS, he had too much debt to go to graduate school, so he took a high school position, and he's been there ever since (about 20 years, I reckon).

Interesting. I can't imagine he's having a fun time paying off the enormous debt with a HS teacher salary but hopefully he's managing it.

From what I've heard on PF, along with what people (physics grad students) have told me on other sites, there ARE jobs in physics, it's just that you need to be good enough for a PhD, and you need to be realistic (branches like cosmology, astrophysics, string theory seem to be the worst for jobs).

Experimental physics are apparently were the jobs are, only the top theoreticians actually find work doing theory.

Indeed I have no plans to go into anything theoretical, I decided on that ages ago. If I do end up doing anything permanent in physics I would like for it to be as close to experimental as possible so that 1. I actually have a chance of getting a job and 2. I can make enough money to slave off the college debt in case I do manage to get a PhD (if I end up going that route).

 

[ModusPwnd]

The possible alternative is changing majors but not changing schools?

I presume you have already explored all the grant and scholarship opportunities your school offers. Also, be sure to bring these questions to your undergrad coordinator and financial aid office. They may have grant, scholarship, work study, something to ease the burden.

Nearly all my grad school classmates that went to expensive private school for undergrad got their tuition subsidized somehow, through a combination of high performance and need.

 

[Aimless]

No college degree, no matter how good the school, is worth taking on $120k in debt. It's not even worth spending $120k if you had the money at hand.

You'll be better off, in the long run, transferring to a state school where you can get an education nearly as good at a quarter that cost (and possibly even get a scholarship to offset that).

As for getting your PhD: if you can make it into a physics PhD program (in the US, atleast), odds are overwhelmingly high that you'll finish with a PhD. Most schools which offer a PhD are selective about whom they let into the program, and will not admit students they do not think are likely to complete the degree.

 

[WannabeNewton]

The possible alternative is changing majors but not changing schools?

I presume you have already explored all the grant and scholarship opportunities your school offers. Also, be sure to bring these questions to your undergrad coordinator and financial aid office. They may have grant, scholarship, work study, something to ease the burden.

Changing schools is not out of the question. I actually haven't looked into scholarship opportunities in much detail yet because I haven't really thought about this up till now. Honestly though, if I have to go through all the trouble of garnering tons of scholarships just to pay off the tuition, I think it would be more realistic to just change schools but I was hoping to save that until people told me that things would be quite bleak with a physics BS.

As for aimless, I understand that 120K is a large sum of money but pretty much every university I was accepted into wanted the same if not more (including various out of state public universities like UMich). The only cheap option is to attend SUNY Stony Brook but like I said I want to stave off making big decisions like changing schools until I really know that paying off 120K would be tough with just a physics BS or even with a BS in a more practical technical subject that would more likely land be an industry job. Just to personalize things, if I do get a good paying job I won't mind the 120K debt because as I said I don't plan on marriage or kids and I don't plan on living lavishly in any way. As long as the essentials are there :)

 

[Aimless]

From what I've heard on PF, along with what people (physics grad students) have told me on other sites, there ARE jobs in physics, it's just that you need to be good enough for a PhD, and you need to be realistic (branches like cosmology, astrophysics, string theory seem to be the worst for jobs).

If you want a job in physics, doing research, then you will need a PhD. A BS in physics will get you jobs - even good jobs - but don't expect that they will be in a research environment. Teaching high school, if you can stomach it, is a nearly assured job opportunity, since most high schools are desperate to find qualified physics and math teachers (as the people who go into the standard education program in college are typically doing so to avoid as much math and science as they can). Otherwise, there are jobs out there from employers who are interested in your math skills, but you'll have to look for them. During the six month hiatus between when I finished my BS and when I started grad. school (in 2006), I wound up getting a job at Total Petrochemical in one of their test reactors doing chemistry lab tech work. I have no idea what they saw in a physics major, but there you go. (The job was terrible, but that's a different story.)

 

[Aimless]

The only cheap option is to attend SUNY Stony Brook

What's wrong with Stony Brook?

I understand (and approve of) your hesitation to make your decision, but no college degree is worth the amount you would be spending - no matter whether you're attending a posh private school, an out of state public school, or whatever.

 

[WannabeNewton]

What's wrong with Stony Brook?

I understand (and approve of) your hesitation to make your decision, but no college degree is worth the amount you would be spending - no matter whether you're attending a posh private school, an out of state public school, or whatever.

There's nothing wrong with it at all but I personally find it easier said than done to just leave my university unfortunately (it's hard to just give up Cornell). That's why I wanted to make it a more extreme resort option. As I understand it, many of my friends pay roughly the same amount I do (the financial aid packages are quite uniform) but they are pretty much all in engineering - they seem to be ok with it. I only know one other person in physics on a personal level and he would end up with ~88K after the 4 years if he stays the entire time.

 

[Aimless]

As I understand it, many of my friends pay roughly the same amount I do (the financial aid packages are quite uniform) but they are pretty much all in engineering - they seem to be ok with it or, like me, are just reluctant to let go.

Yeah. They're all getting a raw deal, too.

The bad news for you is this: we're pretty much at the apex of the bubble in terms of college tuition costs, which means that everyone in school right now is getting ripped off. One possible solution is to simply wait; there are signs that the bubble is popping, and tuition costs might be coming back down to something approaching a reasonable level within the next few years. Then again, they might not be, so waiting is a risk. Plus, if you goal is a PhD, you can't really choose to forgo getting your B.S.

The other solution is to just pick that one inexpensive option. The quality of education you receive there will probably be lower than what you're getting now, but not that far lower. After all, I went to a far, far less rigorous school than Stony Brook for my undergrad work and I still got a PhD.

 

[WannabeNewton]

Yeah. They're all getting a raw deal, too.

I assume this is a bad thing (haven't heard the expression before myself)?

The bad news for you is this: we're pretty much at the apex of the bubble in terms of college tuition costs, which means that everyone in school right now is getting ripped off. One possible solution is to simply wait; there are signs that the bubble is popping, and tuition costs might be coming back down to something approaching a reasonable level within the next few years. Then again, they might not be, so waiting is a risk. Plus, if you goal is a PhD, you can't really choose to forgo getting your B.S.

The other solution is to just pick that one inexpensive option. The quality of education you receive there will probably be lower than what you're getting now, but not that far lower. After all, I went to a far, far less rigorous school than Stony Brook for my undergrad work and I still got a PhD.

You're definitely right and I'm not disagreeing with you on anything. I'm just grappling with my personal priorities: do I pay the ridiculous sum just to go to a top university and get a BS in physics that might or might not get me a PhD and might or might not get me a good paying job with no PhD, do I change majors within same university to something more realistic like EE and at least know that I have a much better chance of getting a good paying job, or do I transfer to Stony Brook and have to pay much less (~20K for the two years ill be there + ~60K for the two years I'll have been at Cornell by the time I transfer, if I do choose that) and get a physics degree from there but give up Cornell?

Honestly speaking, after your and others' advice, it seems like transferring might not be the worst of ideas because let's be honest it's just Cornell it isn't Harvard, MIT, or Caltech so it's not like I'm getting an amazing education. Unfortunately it seems in today's world, prestige is always an issue when applying to top grad schools or when getting an industry job. Staying at Cornell and doing a BS in physics seems the worst of the three choices. Maybe I can dwell on switching to something engineering related within Cornell or go to Stony brook before its too late (even if I transfer I will have already taken a ~60k blow to my future funds because of the past year and the year to come).

 

[Aimless]

I assume this is a bad thing (haven't heard the expression before myself)?

Comes from card games; to get a "raw deal" is to be given a bad hand - in other words, to be treated unfairly.

It's an old expression (a quick google search of its etymology says it dates from 1911); I guess it's more a midwest/southern thing than a northeast thing?

 

[dx]

Honestly, being a PhD student myself, and knowing several others, I don't think its unrealistic at all for you to get a fully funded PhD position.

However, if you are not particular about an academic/research career, it would be much easier getting well-paying jobs if you do engineering or computer science or something else. I know several people who got a BS in physics and went straight into the workforce. One guy I know even got hired as a computer programmer by Microsoft in London.

 

[WannabeNewton]

Haha I see, quite a cool phrase. By the way, just to clarify, I'm not so worried about the cost of my current education so much as I am getting a well-paying job after getting a BS in physics. If the prospects are bleak on average then I would just switch to engineering and take comfort in knowing the prospects are much greater. The reason I'm not as worried about the cost of my education so much as getting a financially "lucrative" (I put it in quotes because I mean it in a relative way) job is because I won't have many financial burdens once I'm outside of college other than the college debt and basic essentials (food, an apartment, clothing and the likes) so if I have a good means of paying it off, it seems like it would be manageable (but what do I know, I've never had any experience with the workforce).

While Stony Brook is great, and I'm not one to be superficial, I have perused this forum long enough to see enough threads about how top grad schools are noticeably much more favorable towards students from top 15 or top 10 undergraduate universities and this worries me greatly. It seems like if I want to do physics, I'm going to run into a large wall no matter which way I turn.

@dx, I had my heart set on a research/academic career in physics for a while (and, given more financially ideal conditions, I would still love to do research in physics) but the issues of money have quickly and strongly changed my mind. So it would seem that switching to, to take your example, computer science would not be all that bad an idea. I would imagine a BS in comp sci from Cornell would only aid me in getting a well-paying if not lavish job. Did most of the people you know who had a BS in physics, as opposed to something else, get well paying jobs? I assume they also did things like programming or finance on the side so that employers actually wanted them correct? I would think knowing only what a BS in physics would be rather useless to most industry employers.

By the way, thanks everyone, for the advice thus far. I really, really appreciate it. While I wish life was perfect and I could easily pursue my ideal career goal in the manner I see most fit, it unfortunately doesn't always work out that way ;)

 

[dx]

Did most of the people you know who had a BS in physics, as opposed to something else, get well paying jobs?

No unfortunately. Some did, but others went into teaching and other things like administrative jobs which don't pay that well.. Just a BS in physics would seriously limit your options and it would be difficult to get well-paying jobs. Although like I said I know people with just BS getting pretty good jobs. Some learned programming by themselves, another guy took professional exams and became an actuary.

My guess is a BS in comp sci would make it pretty easy for you to get a well-paying job. I used to live in America when I was younger, and one friend ended up going to Cornell to do comp sci, and he got a job at Google in California straight after his BS.

 

[WannabeNewton]

No unfortunately. Some did, but others went into teaching and other things like administrative jobs which don't pay that well.. Just a BS in physics would seriously limit your options and it would be difficult to get well-paying jobs. Although like I said I know people with just BS getting pretty good jobs. Some learned programming by themselves, another guy took professional exams and became an actuary.

This is what I feared, but also figured. Thanks.

My guess is a BS in comp sci would make it pretty easy for you to get a well-paying job. I used to live in America when I was younger, and one friend ended up going to Cornell to do comp sci, and he got a job at Google in California straight after his BS.

I see. I don't know how easy it will be to transfer to and finish a BS in comp sci in a reasonable amount of time though. It would seem like EE, or something similar, would be easier to transfer to and finish in an amount of time that wouldn't put even more of a financial stress on me, simply because many of the first year classes for EE and physics tend to overlap other than the first year EE specialized courses.

 

[Mr. Ryan]

I see. I don't know how easy it will be to transfer to and finish a BS in comp sci in a reasonable amount of time though.

I certainly can't speak much for transferring from Physics to comp sci, but if it's worth anything I can vouch for the value of a B.S. in comp sci as well. I have several relatives and friends who obtained a comp sci degree, one of which eventually became the Director of Technology at the Union Bank of Switzerland. Everyone I know did well right out of college, and they still do well. Their financial burdens were certainly paid off.

That's just my two cents though. The
Electrical Engineers I know are doing just fine. Hope that helped some.

 

[WannabeNewton]

Their financial burdens were certainly paid off.
That's just my two cents though. The
Electrical Engineers I know are doing just fine. Hope that helped some.

Thanks Ryan, it certainly did help although it isn't surprising that your relatives and such were well off with a BS in comp sci or something similar, given the current character of the job market. Thanks again for the insight / reinforcement.

 

[sndtam]

computer science would not be all that bad an idea.

I can see from your posts that you are very passionate about doing Physics.I made the wrong decision of going into Engineering degree.If you really love to do physics,think twice before getting into Engineering.

 

[WannabeNewton]

I can see from your posts that you are very passionate about doing Physics.I made the wrong decision of going into Engineering degree.If you really love to do physics,think twice before getting into Engineering.

Thanks for the caution snd but unfortunately I'm in a position where I have to decide if passion is actually worth the financial endeavors that would follow suit.

 

[physwizard]

Hi WannabeNewton,
I didn't realize you were a freshman student. With the knowledge of GR you have I thought you were a grad student or a prof!
Its good that you've come to terms with the money angle. When you are faced with the grim reality of having to pay your bills that's when many of us begin to question our career choice.
Now, what is money? 1$ or 1 pound or 1 euro cannot be defined in the same way as we define a kg, metre, or second in Physics. In some countries which have a gold standard, it is defined as the value of a certain amount of gold. In many others it isn't defined against some standard and is really a volatile commodity.
Nevertheless, this 'undefined' quantity has a profound impact on our everyday existence.
Now, to understand the money trail - the reason physics is being researched in universities is because a need is felt in society (hopefully) to have people who are experts in science. However, taxpayers don't want their hard earned money to be spent paying salaries to people who are not highly competent. So the system for churning out the best is so competitive that many people don't make it to a tenured faculty position. Unfortunately, there is no system in place to take care of the vast majority of people who don't make it to an academic faculty position. (Remember that these people may still be smarter than the average Joe engineer.) These people who end up becoming engineers, bankers, programmers (those lucky enough to get some kind of job) often wonder why they spent so much of their lives in a different career track only to end up in those kind of jobs which their colleagues at undegrad got immediately after graduation.
When the economy is good taxpayers tend to be more generous. When it is bad, taxpayers tend to question about whether it is justified spending their hard earned money to support the plethora of faculties, post-docs, temporary positions, grad students, etc.
Coming back to the point, I think your best guide would be to ask the faculty at your own school about job prospects immediately after a BS, and a comparison of Physics and other disciplines from the point of view of job prospects. Also you could pay a visit to the Career Resource Centre or Placement Cell of your own university and talk to the people there regarding job prospects. You may also want to attend the job fairs on campus where prospective employers meet students. Another avenue would be to talk to the final year students in physics and other disciplines.
If you decide to change (it would not at all be an unreasonable decision) you would need to pick a disciple which you like, enjoy doing, and are good at, and most importantly, for which there are good job prospects. You can always pursue physics as a hobby in your spare time or on weekends if you like.
There are people who are comfortable only with physics and not so comfortable with other disciplines. If this is the case, you need to think whether you can use your knowledge of Physics to make money, for eg., like coming up with an invention or patent or something like that.
IMO being in debt is not a good thing unless you have a concrete plan of how to go about paying it off quickly.
Good Luck!
And do PM me if you have any questions.

 

[Lavabug]

I concur with the statements that $120k is just too much. For anything.

I don't think staying in the same school and switching careers will alleviate the problem a whole lot. You're still going to end up in roughly the same debt, and although statistically your earning potential is higher as an engineer, as a physics graduate from a top 10 university in the US you probably have a much better shot than most at financial/consulting positions which makes the salary argument kind of moot. And given by your interests in high level math, GR and such you probably won't enjoy your time so much in a different degree. I am speaking from a position as a late physics graduate with bad job prospects. I probably would be a whole lot more miserable if I had spent all that time on something I didn't like with a ton of debt added on top of that, irrespective of job prospects.

And don't sweat about getting into a phd. Some incredibly incompetent and lazy students manage to squeeze into phd programs. You outperform most physics seniors and masters students I know and you've still got 3 years ahead of you to comfortably get your skills up to even higher levels (and enjoy life while you're at it).

If you were good enough to get into Cornell a year ago, you're probably good enough to get into any high ranking public school where you could probably end up with a less than a third of that debt(and likely have more options in terms of subsidy/grants). I can imagine letting go of an Ivy has a huge psychological stigma associated with it, but in the long run it might be a better idea. If you keep your grades up and get research experience, your pool for potential grad schools won't really change much if at all, just look at where the people who get into phd programs at Caltech and other top physics departments. Most come from public schools, not Ivies. And if you produce valuable research during your phd program, it really doesn't matter where you go to grad school either.

 

[caldweab]

Personally I would look into scholarships at schools that have a reasonable quality of education and transfer. I go to a small school for nuclear engineering but we frequently compete other larger schools such as MIT and UW-Madison and we are constantly getting praised for our performance. I could've went to a larger school and funded my education with loans and such but why do that when I'm getting a good education for free? What benefit does it provide to say that I went to UW if when I find employment I have this enormous debt hanging over my head. $120,000 could buy you a really nice house in SC, what kind of salary are you even expecting to pay that debt off in anything less than 20-30 years and still have money to live? It's not worth it in my honest opinion, transfer and change your major to something more practical or double major (Physics &EE). I also wouldn't count a wife out either, never know you might meet a woman that changes your mind. Just my .02

 

[AnTiFreeze3]

... I also wouldn't count a wife out either, never know you might meet a woman that changes your mind. Just my .02

Unless Kate Upton proposes to him, I'm fairly certain WBN will stay single.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Some random thoughts:

1. Pay no attention to "prestige" - Stony Brook is one of the best schools in the country. For nuclear physics, I would rank it #2, under Michigan State. Harvard and Chicago aren't even close. There is a lot of misinformation in this section - not surprising when high school kiddies try to give advice to PhD candidates.

2. $120,000 is a lot of money. A lot.

3. In today's economy, there is no major that guarantees you a well-paying job just for having graduated. None.

4. When I graduated with my SB, I took a job for the equivalent of $61,000 in today's dollars. I was working in industry, doing one of those jobs that everyone here likes to pooh-pooh: making the company money as opposed to doing science. Had I not gone back to graduate school I am certain I would be making substantially more than I am making today, nevertheless I am glad I made the choices that I did. Money has no value in and of itself - it's value is in what you can do with it.

 

[caldweab]

Some random thoughts:

1. Pay no attention to "prestige" - Stony Brook is one of the best schools in the country. For nuclear physics, I would rank it #2, under Michigan State. Harvard and Chicago aren't even close. There is a lot of misinformation in this section - not surprising when high school kiddies try to give advice to PhD candidates.

2. $120,000 is a lot of money. A lot.

3. In today's economy, there is no major that guarantees you a well-paying job just for having graduated. None.

4. When I graduated with my SB, I took a job for the equivalent of $61,000 in today's dollars. I was working in industry, doing one of those jobs that everyone here likes to pooh-pooh: making the company money as opposed to doing science. Had I not gone back to graduate school I am certain I would be making substantially more than I am making today, nevertheless I am glad I made the choices that I did. Money has no value in and of itself - it's value is in what you can do with it.

You realize the OP is a freshmen right? I also beg to differ on the well paying job thing. The last two classes to graduate our program everyone has a job making over $60,000 or received a full ride to graduate school. Most are hired by SCANA, GE, AREVA, Duke Energy or Westinghouse but there have been a good many who have went to the NRC and national labs. By the way the girl that makes $60,000 is in the navy, everyone else makes more than her. One that I personally know very well is working at the naval shipyard in Virginia and she makes $75,000. Now that's not bad at all considering she has no student loan debt, no kids and she's single in her early 20's (23).

 

[AnTiFreeze3]

You realize the OP is a freshmen right? I also beg to differ on the well paying job thing. The last two classes to graduate our program everyone has a job making over $60,000 or received a full ride to graduate school. Most are hired by SCANA, GE, AREVA, Duke Energy or Westinghouse but there have been a good many who have went to the NRC and national labs. By the way the girl that makes $60,000 is in the navy, everyone else makes more than her. One that I personally know very well is working at the naval shipyard in Virginia and she makes $75,000. Now that's not bad at all considering she has no student loan debt, no kids and she's single in her early 20's (23).

Please don't tell me that you honestly believe that two classes from your graduate program are representative of the entirety of the United States.

He was simply pointing out that, despite some fields having more opportunities than others, no one is guaranteed a well paying job simply by choosing a particular field.

 

[caldweab]

Please don't tell me that you honestly believe that two classes from your graduate program are representative of the entirety of the United States.

He was simply pointing out that, despite some fields having more opportunities than others, no one is guaranteed a well paying job simply by choosing a particular field.

Of course I don't.

 

[WannabeNewton]

Thanks guys, I appreciate all the advice. Vanadium I have duly noted your points, thank you. I realize that getting a job isn't easy period so any drastic changes I make to my academic career will have to be well thought out. Regardless of if I transfer or not, I'll still be stuck at my current uni for another year so it's really the last two years of my college education that will take place at Stony should I decide to transfer. Still, money saved is money saved.

I would like to ask one question though, to you (Vanadium) and others: if we were to forget physics and focus on an engineering or computer science related job instead, would the price tag for Cornell be worth it as far as being recruited by potential employers who scrutinize based on rank goes? I understand that for acceptance into a physics PhD program, the rank isn't as important as various other factors (grades, recs etc.) but what about for industry jobs related to the above technical fields? I see often on the forum that the ranking is taken into account noticeably if not heavily for recruitment into top paying jobs.

 

[MarneMath]

In my personal opinion, the price tag at Cornell would not be worth it for any major, if money is of any concern of yours. 120,000 plus interest is extremely difficult to pay off, and say good buy to any lofty goal of home ownership and or renting in a decent location within a large city. The debt to income ratio is just too heavy. The simple fact of the matter is that you need to utilize the opportunity you have now to network with people at your current university. By network, I don't mean just know or hang out randomly once a month. I'm talking about meeting and befriending people who are doing business or engineering and clicking with them. Make them aware that you are extremely intelligent, hard working and easy to communicate with. Nearly every job I have ever worked, when a new position had to be filled, my bosses would ask employers for recommendations, and every time, I thought of friends who needed a job and argued for them. Heck, when I left my last job the guy who replaced me was recommended by me. Great guy.

Anyway, more on point. While there is a potential that you may lock yourself out of some cliches companies because you graduated from great public university instead of great ivy league, I would say that that matters less and less after your first job. Eventually, the questions no longer relate to why you learned in school, but what projects you worked on and how you see your experience helping out on projects this companies does.