82-year-old who claims he has not had any food or water

[IcedEcliptic]

OK, you are questioning the rigor of the experiment and the veracity of the claimers.

That is my view, yes. I question the motives, the history of this man and studies surrounding him. My knowledge of human anatomy and thermodynamics leads me to believe (but not assume) that this is impossible. Add that to the poor study construction and the history of this, and "fraud" leaps to mind. It is an aggregate of many facts, and not a single disbelief for its own sake.

 

[IcedEcliptic]

Stevenb is right. Science is so much build on honest observations/reporting etc. that scientists are not by training the best sutable persons to design experiments in which deception may play a big role.

http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html" would be far more difficult to fool than the typical absent minded professor:

James Randi is one of the great heroes of the age of reason, I believe.

 

[rtved]

Uh, yes. And you'd be wrong. i.e. your common sense will have led you astray. i.e. do not trust it.

What was your point?

My point is same as yours.You cannot trust your commonsense in matters of scientific enquiry.

 

[DaveC426913]

My point is same as yours.You cannot trust your commonsense in matters of scientific enquiry.

Oh.

 

[Evo]

They say they are interested in how he can supposedly go for prolonged periods without food or water, like most of the holy men that constantly fast. It's not some "trick' that you can just teach, we're talking about years and years of conditioning your body. This whole thing makes no sense.

 

[IcedEcliptic]

They say thet are interested in how he can supposedly go for prolonged periods without food or water, like most of the holy men that constantly fast. It's not some "trick' that you can just teach, we're talking about years and years of conditioning your body. This whole thing makes no sense.

Especially the water portion, which of course is not a matter of how holy or practiced you are, compared to salt, climate, and time. 15 days with NO water, and you are either dead, or dying. Possibly this is why even they admit to letting him access to water, but of course a holy man would not lie. ;) It is funny, the holiest men and women I know do not torment themselves to prove a point, they have faith and try to help others.

 

[rtved]

Especially the water portion, which of course is not a matter of how holy or practiced you are, compared to salt, climate, and time. 15 days with NO water, and you are either dead, or dying.

One will not only be dead with dehydration the symptoms of dehydration will show up all over the body.

Possibly this is why even they admit to letting him access to water,

They let him bathing facilities after 5th day' i.e. after full 5 days of total isolation.The key here is what quantities of water HE has access to.In the 2003 10 day study he was given 100 ml water for gargling and the water was collected and measured

but of course a holy man would not lie. ;) It is funny, the holiest men and women I know do not torment themselves to prove a point, they have faith and try to help others.

The accurate term to describe is Renunciate.

Do you see any trust Factor involved here?.He was monitored 24/7 with cctv cameras

Mr prahlad doesn't appear to suffer any torment here.If that is so they(Drdo) would not be interested at all.

 

[IcedEcliptic]

One will not only be dead with dehydration the symptoms of dehydration will show up all over the body.



They let him bathing facilities after 5th day' i.e. after full 5 days of total isolation.



Do you see any trust Factor involved here?.He was monitored 24/7 with cctv cameras

Mr prahlad doesn't appear to suffer any torment here.If that is so they(Drdo) would not be interested at all.

Have you ever been without water for five days? I haven't, and what thirst I have experienced over a mere 56 hours was unpleasant in the extreme. If you have access to bathing, you can drink, period, end of story. This says that he can survive for 5 days without water, which is hardly pleasant, but hardly a feat of magic or faith. Not eating does not bear discussing of course, and the trust factor is strong. I don't have access to those cameras, so really it is trust in the doctor/group handling this man, whom I do not trust at all.

 

[rtved]

Have you ever been without water for five days? I haven't, and what thirst I have experienced over a mere 56 hours was unpleasant in the extreme. If you have access to bathing, you can drink, period, end of story. This says that he can survive for 5 days without water, which is hardly pleasant, but hardly a feat of magic or faith. Not eating does not bear discussing of course, and the trust factor is strong. I don't have access to those cameras, so really it is trust in the doctor/group handling this man, whom I do not trust at all.

I edited my post above.Quantum of water provided is the key here.

The details of 10 day study did in 2003 are available at http://www.sudhirneuro.org/articles.php

In the present study The dipaps (drdo) person merely said the protocal of 2003 study is adhered to with additional tests.Pending detailed report thay could have informed about details of water access in the present study.

 

[DaveC426913]

One will not only be dead with dehydration the symptoms of dehydration will show up all over the body.



They let him bathing facilities after 5th day' i.e. after full 5 days of total isolation.The key here is what quantities of water HE has access to.In the 2003 10 day study he was given 100 ml water for gargling and the water was collected and measured

Hm.

I am going to go without food or water, but apparently I can't live without bathing or gargling...


OK, now the experiment has been compromised.

 

[rtved]

Hm.

I am going to go without food or water, but apparently I can't live without bathing or gargling...


OK, now the experiment has been compromised.

Well, there is a problem with the information regarding water access for the entire 15 days study.The dailymail link nor the other mainstream sources doesn't mention anything about bathing.

If it is confirmed that he was allowed to bathe from 6th day onwards the claim for No water contact cannot be maintained for the entire 15 day study.

If on the other hand the original protocol of 2003 is maintained where there is no bathing and only gargling with 100 ml water is allowed which was collected after use, then the experiment was not compromised as far as access to water is concerned.

 

[stevenb]

If on the other hand the original protocol of 2003 is maintained where there is no bathing and only gargling with 100 ml water is allowed which was collected after use, then the experiment was not compromised as far as access to water is concerned.

Apparently, you believe a good magician could not figure out how to swap urine with gargled water. I happen to believe this is an achievable trick and so it does compromise the experiment.

 

[IcedEcliptic]

Hm.

I am going to go without food or water, but apparently I can't live without bathing or gargling...


OK, now the experiment has been compromised.

I could hug you DaveC, but I am too macho for that. ;)

 

[rtved]

Apparently, you believe a good magician could not figure out how to swap urine with gargled water. I happen to believe this is an achievable trick and so it does compromise the experiment.

I admit that is has not occurred to me.Yes, it might be possible for a good magician if there are no Highspeed cameras to capture the entire gargling exercise.

 

[ideasrule]

How can anything except the most dilute urine ever be mistaken for water?

 

[DaveC426913]

How can anything except the most dilute urine ever be mistaken for water?

Ah but mistaken by whom? Who will be checking?

 

[IcedEcliptic]

This is a load of steaming turd... can we move on now? The need to prove is on the holy man, and that is already tainted. Game over.

 

[stevenb]

How can anything except the most dilute urine ever be mistaken for water?

Not clear water, but gargled up spit water with bubbles clouding the mixture. Would you be willing to try and tell the difference? There is no statement that the liquid was analyzed, only measured (I assume by weight and/or volume).

Let's ask another question. How could such an impossible claim ever be mistaken for a real possibility? Let's compare: urine mistaken for water, versus magic is scientific. Sure, maybe neither is actually the case here; but, which is more plausible.

The bottom line is that we are not there to see exactly what happened. So, why should we ignore a multitude of very possible, but mundane, explanations in favor of one highly improbable explanation? It's just not logical.

Even if we were there to analyze everything and were satisfied with what we saw, is it more logical to assume that magic exists or that we are fallible and were, in fact, fooled?

 

[zomgwtf]

Well I am highly skeptical of this hospital and it's findings. 15 days without food, no problem. 15 days without food or water... with absolutely NO changes... I want it independently verified.

While I do not believe this is something that a hospital should take any part in I do think this man should be sent to my house so I can padlock him in an empty warehouse room for a month. Or atleast he should be sent to a reputable lab so scientific studies can be done by scientists.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Sounds like an obvious candidate for Randi's Challenge. Of course, that wouldn't be scientific evidence, but he could either pocket the money or give it to his favorite charity; assuming that he can really do it. At this point I easily expect fraud.

Is he willing to duplicate this feat for other academic institutions? That is the obvious test at this point.

 

[rtved]

While it is possible for a skilled magician to switch gargled water with urine, it cannot be mistaken for water unless the the one who collects the gargled water is part of the trickery.

 

[Evo]

While it is possible for a skilled magician to switch gargled water with urine, it cannot be mistaken for water unless the the one who collects the gargled water is part of the trickery.

People have been known to drink their own urine to survive.

Did they move the cameras from his bedroom to where he bathed? Did they measure the bathing water? How easy would it be to cup your hands filled with water and bring it up to your face to wash and drink it?

 

[stevenb]

While it is possible for a skilled magician to switch gargled water with urine, it cannot be mistaken for water unless the the one who collects the gargled water is part of the trickery.

A magician's trick needs the perception that one step is a "cannot". An assistant is one method as you say, but it is not the only method. The color and the smell are the problems in your mind I assume. Magicians have dealt with far more difficult challanges than those.

 

[Galteeth]

Maybe he's a mutant.

 

[pallidin]

Magicians have dealt with far more difficult challanges than those.

Nice!

 

[pallidin]

"Scientific" reports from ASIA are suspect from the beginning.

 

[WiFO215]

"Scientific" reports from ASIA are suspect from the beginning.

Don't say that. It's not right.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Don't say that. It's not right.

I agree. Statements like that require supporting evidence.

 

[stevenb]

"Scientific" reports from ASIA are suspect from the beginning.

We could say that scientific reports from anyplace and anyone are suspect. That's just part of the scientific method. Every report requires independent verification before it can be accepted.

 

[IcedEcliptic]

We could say that scientific reports from anyplace and anyone are suspect. That's just part of the scientific method. Every report requires independent verification before it can be accepted.

Yes, one must use knowledge of other sciences to make inference. We know of thermodynamics, an accepted theory, and this would contradict "no food and water". Remember that the man claims this is for 70 YEARS, and he is just proving this now. That is suspect, the region does not matter. India has questionable science, but is it more than the question you raise around Tuskegee, or MK ULTRA of the CIA? All countries spend money on blue sky research.

 

[JRDunassigned]

Without having read all of the posts - I'm sure that least 75% of them are genuinely good and will visit the remaining 7 pages a.s.a.p., it seems to me that if the Indian military really expected something to come from this, they wouldn't have allowed it to become so public.

What do you think?

 

[phyzmatix]

...it seems to me that if the Indian military really expected something to come from this, they wouldn't have allowed it to become so public.

What do you think?

That's a highly speculative point of view, but I can see potential in it. No way to know that for sure though.

 

[stevenb]

... seems to me that if the Indian military really expected something to come from this, they wouldn't have allowed it to become so public.

What do you think?

I think you make a good point.

Consider the benefit of being able to convince your enemy that your military can go years without food and water, even if it's not true. Propaganda is not something you keep secret.

I can't imagine any group of soldiers being that gullible, but people believe all kinds of things when religion is part of the mix.

 

[pallidin]

For an active, living human to continue functioning without any water intake for even a month is biologically impossible.

The following is from: http://encyclopedia.farlex.com/body+water+loss

Water makes up 60–70% of the human body, or about 40 l/70 pt, of which 25 l/53 pt are inside the cells and 15 l/26 pt outside (12 l/21 pt in tissue fluid, and 3 l/5 pt in blood plasma). A loss of 4 l/7 pt may cause hallucinations; a loss of 8–10 l/14–18 pt may cause death. About 1.5 l/2.6 pt a day are lost through breathing, sweating, and in faeces, and the additional amount lost in urine is the amount needed to keep the balance between input and output. In temperate climates, people cannot survive more than five or six days without water; this is reduced to two or three days in a hot environment.

 

[DaveC426913]

For an active, living human to continue functioning without any water intake for even a month is biologically impossible.

We know that. But simply put, (bona fide) empirical evidence trumps our preconceptions about what's impossible. Relying on things we already "know" simply doesn't cut it in the face of an experiment in-progress.

Again, I'd still put my money on fraud, but there is no closing this case until and unless the results of the experiment are scrutinized.