Airplane Landing Questions -- How can the pilot see the ground?

[Filip Larsen]

When you have those yokes and flight control wheel/joysticks integrated into the VR headset with vision resolution. It would be almost indistinguishable from reality.

I have flown for many years in sims with 3D cockpits using the TrackIR head tracker device that will allow you to move your real head around to control the in-game camera. It makes operating the buttons so much easier and it is perfect for looking outside under VFR flights. For instance, during a landing pattern its just easy as in real life to lean forward and quickly look left over your should to see the airstrip before turning base. Or when looking left and right during taxi.

Going full VR could pose a problem if you have to operate physical devices like yokes, sticks, buttons and keyboard. With TrackIR there is no such problem. :)

 

[jim hardy]

The impracticality of building a cockpit and driving 6 projection monitors at a time for a home user is what makes the VR attractive.

only a big industry can afford that.

I had the good fortune to spend some time in a factory that builds simulators for airlines and military.
They replicate the nose of the plane including cockpit and mount it on a movable platform driven by huge hydraulic motors.
To give the "Feel" of forward acceleration they tip the whole cockpit back. The screens outside the windows still show level so your brain says you're accelerating.
The DC10 we got a demo ride in was even pressurized -
when you hear the engines roar and your ears pop, you feel the acceleration and see the ground racing by, feel the thump-thump of expansion joints in the runway get ever faster,
it is VERY realistic.
There's even a thud in climb-out as the landing gear reaches fully retracted.old jim

 

[russ_watters]

I have flown for many years in sims with 3D cockpits using the TrackIR head tracker device that will allow you to move your real head around to control the in-game camera. It makes operating the buttons so much easier and it is perfect for looking outside under VFR flights. For instance, during a landing pattern its just easy as in real life to lean forward and quickly look left over your should to see the airstrip before turning base. Or when looking left and right during taxi.

Hmm...I may have to get one of those, thanks!

Going full VR could pose a problem if you have to operate physical devices like yokes, sticks, buttons and keyboard.

Yes, that is certainly true.

 

[Tiran]

I have flown 4 different full motion, wrap-around simulators, and none of them made landing realistic.They don't have all the small visual details that the eye picks up in real environments to judge speed and height. The landings were all essentially instrument landings. No one could hover land the helicopter simulators. This was a few years ago, and new technology could have come along, but I doubt it. You wouldn't want to train someone to land a fake plane and confuse them about how a real plane lands, while the real value of a simulator is how you can handle in air emergencies and practice standard approaches.

 

[Klystron]

The measure of full-scale full-motion flight simulator effectiveness lies in establishing a metric of verisimilitude. Human factor studies using actual flight crews include pre-flight crew briefings and detailed debriefings. How lifelike; how real; how believable did the crew find the experience. Seemingly minor events such as exterior traffic sounds can interfere with experiments. Small seemingly inconsequential details or unexpected inputs can disturb a carefully controlled study. Less importance was placed on the 'realness' out the window as consistency.

Even professional flight crews may not know the true goals and objectives of an experiment. Studies also 'piggy-back'. One of the first experiments I helped program at NASA Ames ostensibly studied how practical trackballs were for controlling avionics and scrolling through flight displays. (A trackball looks and acts like an upside-down mouse with an enlarged roller-ball.) Much trackball data was collected under various scenarios including very bad weather conditions. At least two other threads actually dominated the effort including communication dynamics and learning new tasks to perform (track balling) in an otherwise familiar cockpit environment.

Word of advice for the OP. Verisimilitude begins in the operator's mind. Fine gear and realistic controllers certainly help; but treating a sim as a game seems self-defeating. Even using a basic desktop landing program is enhanced by treating the problem as real. Be, or pretend to be, professional. Adjust your chair to address the controls naturally. Minimize inputs to avoid over-controlling. Relax into the controls while remaining vigilant. Simulations make great fun but can also enhance learning.

 

[jim hardy]

I have flown 4 different full motion, wrap-around simulators, and none of them made landing realistic. They don't have all the small visual details that the eye picks up in real environments to judge speed and height.

Have you flown a CAE simulator ? It's the only one i was ever in so can't offer a comparison.
But it could replicate Tex Johnson's barrel roll .

 

[Tiran]

Have you flown a CAE simulator ? It's the only one i was ever in so can't offer a comparison.
But it could replicate Tex Johnson's barrel roll .

I haven't, as far as I know. I believe every simulator was dedicated to the platform, were older and none were for the 707.

 

[jim hardy]

The pressurized one i rode in was a DC-10

here's the same outfit's A380 there's a takeoff about 40 seconds in


sorry if it looks like an ad - wasn't my intent, just wanted to show what one looks like

 

[jim hardy]

here's a 737 simulator landing

 

[seazal]

I bought an Oculus Rift primarily for flight simulators and unfortunately it is nowhere near ready. It is both too low a resolution and too poor in performance. That said...

...this really is true, at least in the sense that you are immersed in the simulated reality. The Oculus rift is not yet usable, but I could see the potential when I tried. If you've never put on a VR headset, it's worth trying the experience.

I owned the Samsung Gear VR for use in the S8 and so. It has pixel like in the early days of CGA monitor (I used to buy the CGA, EGA, VGA, SuperVGA monitors too). The thing with VR is that it's so impressive, one you couldn't have predicted or expected. . It's not like looking at tiny monitor insides googles but it's like you are part of the scene thanks to the fisheye lens. I didn't know this before I tried to look through the Gear VR for the first time in the Samsung store.

I am thinking what is next step to the Gear VR in resolution or clarity before I'd buy my next VR. About Oculus rift, what do you mean it's not useable. People used it for gaming a lot.

There are still some problems with the simulation itself though. The control feel is one, but another significant issue is the lack of gravity feedback and that one can't easily be overcome.

I'm not sure, but the military has long gotten around the issue of immersiveness by making their simulators half physical instead of totally virtual. When you are sitting in a real cockpit with all the windows replaced with screens, there's no need for a headset. The impracticality of building a cockpit and driving 6 projection monitors at a time for a home user is what makes the VR attractive.

You are right. "When you are sitting in a real cockpit with all the windows replaced with screens, there's no need for a headset.". For a second there. I was imaging Matrix like clarity that can rival any physical environment.

About X-Plane and MS Flight Simulator. Last time it took me months to learn it. I'm studying string theory, the only game in town. So I'll try only the landing part if I have time.

It is said that string theory would take a lifetime or more to understand. So I guess no string theorists (and even normal physicists) would be involved in any flight lessons. The thing with flight lessons is you have to spend so much time and master everything. One mistake and it's over.

Just for curiosity and statistics. Is there any physicists who know how to fly airplanes? I guess there may be few or nonexistent since it may take more than a lifetime to master string theory, and know the basic principles guiding it.

 

[seazal]

I have flown for many years in sims with 3D cockpits using the TrackIR head tracker device that will allow you to move your real head around to control the in-game camera. It makes operating the buttons so much easier and it is perfect for looking outside under VFR flights. For instance, during a landing pattern its just easy as in real life to lean forward and quickly look left over your should to see the airstrip before turning base. Or when looking left and right during taxi.

Going full VR could pose a problem if you have to operate physical devices like yokes, sticks, buttons and keyboard. With TrackIR there is no such problem. :)

I may get the TrackIR for more immersive landing experiences. But where can I get very wide monitor like this? And is it expensive? What's the measurements to enjoy it?

I saw this news today:
https://www.msn.com/en-ph/news/tech...lby-atmos-speakers/ar-BBRYq30?ocid=spartanntp

But this "world's most cinematic tv" is not as wide as the above.

 

[Filip Larsen]

I may get the TrackIR for more immersive landing experiences. But where can I get very wide monitor like this?

I just use mine with standard 16:9 monitors which is immersive enough for me. I have two monitors normally, but for flying I use one for the 3D cockpit view and the other for checklists, flightplans, special avionic display (e.g. FMS), and similar.

I know others that let the cockpit view fill 3 monitors (without TrackIR) and set the side monitors tilted to kind of look out the side window of the plane (search for "flight simulator triple monitors" to see what I mean). This setup is nice especially for IFR flights as it does not require as high FPS as with a head tracker (or full VR for that matter). You can even get multihead adapters that connect to multiple monitors and registers as a single monitor on the computer (I recall the name Matrox Triple Head - think they are still active). I recall some of them even allow the virtual view to be "hidden" behind the gap between the monitors :)

I have on occasion used a 21:9 monitor for work only, but I would imagine that it would also be useful for flying. However, most PC games and simulators are usually better preconfigured to fit 16:9 so using a very special screen may require some reconfiguration or tinkering. For general PC use I find that I will rather have two 16:9 than a single 21:9 monitor (everything else being equal).

 

[george_michael]

For a pilots-eye view of landing an Airbus A380, see:
https://www.youtube.com//watch?v=ENe89j89tBA

Great share, I was looking for something like this. Searched on youtube myself though, I do not know how did I miss this.

 

[russ_watters]

Apropos:

How pilots land when they can't see the runway
https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/autoland-pilots-runway/index.html

 

[russ_watters]

I have flown for many years in sims with 3D cockpits using the TrackIR head tracker device that will allow you to move your real head around to control the in-game camera. It makes operating the buttons so much easier and it is perfect for looking outside under VFR flights. For instance, during a landing pattern its just easy as in real life to lean forward and quickly look left over your should to see the airstrip before turning base. Or when looking left and right during taxi.

Hmm...I may have to get one of those, thanks!

So I did buy one and it's great in concept, but is some taking some getting used to. The movement is weird and the deadband seems necessary but is also distracting and hard to account for. Any tips?

 

[Tiran]

Apropos:

How pilots land when they can't see the runway
https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/autoland-pilots-runway/index.html

Just to be clear (though it is in the article), no one lands without seeing the runway. Pilots approach and need to be able to see something as they hit whatever minimum approach altitude - the lowest being 100 feet for the best approach systems. If they can't make out the runway environment they abort the approach and landing.

 

[Filip Larsen]

So I did buy one and it's great in concept, but is some taking some getting used to. The movement is weird and the deadband seems necessary but is also distracting and hard to account for. Any tips?

Congratulations! :)

The TrackIR application allow you to create and adjust different profiles and associate each with a particular game too. I usually like to have a (nearly) flat response in pitch and yaw and have rates set so I can tilt my head to see all relevant for the simulation without my reflector thingy getting hidden from the camera (I use the old one you attach to a cap). For VFR flying where I have look left and right over the wings and be able to lean down and see cockpit switches below the control column, but also would like a "steady" front view, I set low flat curve near zero and let it rise smoothly to higher sensitivity far from zero. I find if the curves are smooth enough I quickly adapt to moving my head just right.

There is also a sensitivity toggle hot-key you can use, but I almost never use that. The reset button, however, is something I use all the time so it is typical also bound to a joystick button or similar. Often I also use this reset to quickly "raise" my cockpit seat up or down a bit by moving my head a bit in the opposite direction from where my normal sitting position is and then press reset. When I then return to normal sitting the cockpit view is different.

It may also take to experimentation to get the right distance to the screen/camera and proper angle. I have had good success with having my screens on an arm for that.

And also important, due to the visual feedback you may experience motion sickness if the simulator runs at too low FPS. For cockpit views I would say around 30-50 FPS is needed, but more is of course better.